A Nod To Brent - a friendly thread, filled with frivolity, cream teas and pasties. Longing for the happy days in the South Hams 1947.

[Oldddudders]

Yup, it came from Grimsby!

P

There were two young girls from Grimsby.....

 

But Rob says he does the smut on here, so that's that!

[Alister_G]

There were two young girls from Grimsby.....

 

But Rob says he does the smut on here, so that's that!

 

And a good thing too, what chance is there of anything rhyming with Grimsby!

[colin penfold]

And a good thing too, what chance is there of anything rhyming with Grimsby!

I once won a limerick competition in a hotel bar in Hull. Even with qualifications like that I can't come up with a rhyme for Grimsby

[Alister_G]

Oh Colin, I thought if anyone could do it, it would be you

 

See Ian!

 

Impossible!

 

[colin penfold]

A modellers fish train from grimsby

was hauled by a diesel by Limby

it pulled it up shap

came down with the clap

then nodded to brent on a whimsy

[Oldddudders]

My lips are sealed - and there's a clue there!

[cary hill]

Do you have any more info on this train please David ?

 

A couple of LNER threads here : http://www.lner.info/forums/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=9204&start=15 & here http://www.lner.info/forums/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=2866&p=21342&hilit=fish+trains#p21342. with quite a lot of detail of what happened further north and down to Banbury.

 

Mainly about Grimsby-Whitland fish trains rather than Hull - Plymouth trains, but there is mention of portions of the trains being "swapped" at Oxford etc., average no of vans etc., and  some timings.

 

Some of it ties in very well with my Great Central books and photographs of fish trains on that line. Most trains seem to have about 25 or so vans, although these are mainly late1950s/60s photos.

 

From timetable snippets I think it might be too dark to see them passing at Brent by the late 1950's/60's. I think they may have run earlier in 1947.

Edited May 15, 2014 by cary hill

[cary hill]

 

Some of it ties in very well with my Great Central books and photographs of fish trains on that line. Most trains seem to have about 25 or so vans, although these are mainly late1950s/60s photos.

 

From timetable snippets I think it might be too dark to see them passing at Brent by the late 1950's/60's. I think they may have run earlier in 1947.

 

I think that the Hull-Plymouth fish started out in the mid-afternoon in the late 1950s/early'60s: (per 1964 WTT departs Hull 3.30 p.m. and leaves the GC at Woodford Halse for Banbury at 8.34 p.m - Grimsby-Whitland leaves Grimsby at 4.30 p.m and leaves the GC at 9.24 p.m.)

 

Some photos all described as evening on the Great Central (from Colin Walker's books) tend to confirm this:

 

Three examples:

 

GWR 6979 'Helperly Hall' ,returning to Banbury, takes charge of the Hull-Plymouth fish at Leicester Central - summer evening 1959.

 

LNER B1 61121 at Weekday Cross Junction, Nottingham on the up Hull-Plymouth fish summer evening 1959.

 

BR Std 5 73071 climbing Ashby Magna bank approaching Lutterworth (once just down the road from me) - 21 vans including 2 brake vans (one in the "middle" of the train) -  perhaps to do with dividing/re-arrranging the train at Banbury or Oxford?

,

Edit: I went back to the photo of 8F 48404 on a fish train at Powderham taken on 2nd August 1959, that I mentioned to you ages ago when trying to get you broaden your loco horizons . It's in Peter Kay's excellent Exeter-Newton Abbot -  A Railway History(Platorm 5) on p120. The photo caption gives a few clues as it is described as the 7.25 a.m. Bristol-Plymouth fish train (originating from Grimsby via the GC). Presumably the Hull fish vans could be merged with the Grimsby stuff en route from Banbury to Bristol using some black arts in the middle of the night.

 

I then looked for a similar train amongst the WTTs on this very useful site http://www.michaelclemensrailways.co.uk/?atk=603 and found that p27 of the September 1949 Exeter Division WTT has a Class C fish train (MX) departing Bristol at 7.40 a.m., Bridgewater 8.46 a.m., Taunton 9.30 a.m. Exeter 10.33 a.m. Newton Abbot 11.22 a.m and arriving at Plymouth 12.30 p.m.

 

That seems much better.....

 

So you should be able to join the mad dogs and go out in the midday sun to take photos of the fish train after all.

 

p.s. The 1959 train looks very modellable although it bears no resemblance to the 1959 fish trains on the GC mentioned above. The consist appears to be 3 Full Brake/GUV bogie vehicles, 2 vans and an open truck - I wonder if it's anything to do with 2nd August 1959 being a Sunday. The photo is by P. W. Gray so I'm assuming the caption is good.

Edited May 16, 2014 by cary hill

[Mallard60022]

I'm sure I read somewhere that the Hull/Grimsby Fish joined up somewhere before Brizzel? Suspect in the Midlands somewhere but who knows?

Could be completely wrong of course?

What amazes me is that Fish had to come down to Plymouth anyway for crying out loud; there was a large fishing fleet there until the early 60's.

Maybe it was a species that was not available in the Channel?

I suspect the Finchings would have avoided their Station visit when that stinking thing went through. On the other hand they may have employed their nosegays

H. Addock

[Mallard60022]

More sensible things: check out, if you have not already done so, RM Productions on U Tube, the Z48 specials. The last shot of the Castle absolutely storming east through Dawlish is just, well I'll let you judge. Oooooooh, that whistle; almost as good as a Bulleid Pacific's

P

Edited May 16, 2014 by Mallard60022

[Coombe Barton]

I'm sure I read somewhere that the Hull/Grimsby Fish joined up somewhere before Brizzel? Suspect in the Midlands somewhere but who knows?

Could be completely wrong of course?

What amazes me is that Fish had to come down to Plymouth anyway for crying out loud; there was a large fishing fleet there until the early 60's.

Maybe it was a species that was not available in the Channel?

I suspect the Finchings would have avoided their Station visit when that stinking thing went through. On the other hand they may have employed their nosegays

H. Addock

Cod, I think, was not available from Plymouth

 

Also the fishmonger in Ashburton had boxes of fish sent from Grimsby in the 1950s which arrived on the first return auto. GWRJ 12? for details

[Mallard60022]

Cod, I think, was not available from Plymouth

 

Um, that's interesting and absolutely spot on. It is a cold water fish isn't it and North Sea. The Trawlers at Plymouth were not that big, unlike the Hull and Grimsby boats. 

Any fish going the other way would probably have been Mackerel, Lobster, Flatfish?, Catfish (Rock 'Salmon'?) and Crab products. I suspect that would have been going by road by mid 60s.

I no nowt about fish and their territories apart from Sand Eels!

P

[cary hill]

Information below as per GWRJ #7 article "Modern GWR Fish Vans Part 2" - some of it is derived from early 1900s data:

 

Milford Haven and Newlyn (Penzance) were the two main centres for fish landing, with Milford landing four times as much as Newlyn.

 

Milford Haven landed hake, skate,conger, ling, ray, plaice, sole and other deep water species and also herrings when in season.

 

Newlyn was the largest mackerel port in the country (January to May) and pilchards were caught between August and October.

 

Brixham and Plymouth were "modestly" active and Looe was still active landing ray, skate and turbot in season.

 

Milford fish tended to run in full trainloads but the Cornish catch was normally marshalled into the regular vacuum freights carrying other perishables.

 

The Milford fish destined for the West Country was forwarded to Plymouth by the 8.15 p.m. Cardiff to Plymouth parcels which arrived at Plymouth at 4.30 a.m.(definitely dark when it passed Brent). This service also appears in the 1949 WTT I mentioned above.

Edited May 16, 2014 by cary hill

[Mallard60022]

Will I need some Rock Salmon ballast wagons then....?

P

[Mallard60022]

OK.

Hattons or MacFisheries?

P

Edited May 16, 2014 by Mallard60022

[Mallard60022]

...... but the Cornish catch was normally marshalled into the regular vacuum freights carrying other perishables.

Rob, have you considered running a Potato special?

I have a pic (you have probably seen it) of a Jersey New Potato 'special' working off Penzance, with headboard, peeling off (sorry) the bend and rattling the chippings (sorry again) just past Laira. Just after the  war, Jersey must have been desperate to get back to work and earn some dosh so there is no excuse not ot run one. For your BR period I'd even lend you another Hall to roster for it!

P

Edited May 16, 2014 by Mallard60022

[Mallard60022]

Ah, not Netto then?

P

[Captain Kernow]

I would like to see a block train of Palethorpes sausage vans speeding through Brent, perhaps with a slip van or two to keep the locals supplied...

[Mallard60022]

...half a pound...not a lot for a Hall really,

P

[Mallard60022]

Now, some serious stuff!

There were regular (careful) 'seasonal' trainloads of greens from Cornwall to other places that didn't know what green vegetables were; for example Leeds. Some trains consisted of Cattle wagons......not sure what flavour that added to the said items. For example there was Brokily, Brokkilly, Bokally, Brocalie oh s** it, green lumpy stuff that Jean de Florette was named after and also that pencil like veg that you steam lightly for a few minutes and then serve on a bed of mashed turnip dip in lard... can't think of that name. 

I actually saw some of these workings leaving Plymouth North Road and Devonport Kings Road. Happy days.

I suspect Sierd may be able to find some illustrations of these trains? (They had to run non stop as much as possible to avoid Rhinos that's why most went the WR way - water troughs). The SR workings required 'special operatives' with anti Rhino devices for when the loco stopped for water.

P

Edited May 16, 2014 by Mallard60022

[Captain Kernow]

...half a pound...not a lot for a Hall really,

P

Go on then, I'll push the boat out and go for half a (box) van, please! (best Cumberland, although Lincolnshire might do, depending on whether the month has a Z' in it...

[Captain Kernow]

There were regular (careful) 'seasonal' trainloads of greens from Cornwall to other places that didn't know what green vegetables were; for example Leeds. Some trains consisted of Cattle wagons......not sure what flavour that added to the said items. For example there was Brokily, Brokkilly, Bokally, Brocalie oh s** it, green lumpy stuff that Jean de Florette was named after and also that pencil like veg that you steam lightly for a few minutes and then serve on a bed of mashed turnip dip in lard... can't think of that name. 

Sausage pie

[Mallard60022]

Go on then, I'll push the boat out and go for half a (box) van, please! (best Cumberland, although Lincolnshire might do, depending on whether the month has a Z' in it...

OK, now this is stretching the sausage skin a bit, but there is a good chance that  I can get you the most delicious Beef (yes Beef) gluten free sausages for trial down there in rural lovely land.

P

[gwrrob]

 

I then looked for a similar train amongst the WTTs on this very useful site http://www.michaelclemensrailways.co.uk/?atk=603 and found that p27 of the September 1949 Exeter Division WTT has a Class C fish train (MX) departing Bristol at 7.40 a.m., Bridgewater 8.46 a.m., Taunton 9.30 a.m. Exeter 10.33 a.m. Newton Abbot 11.22 a.m and arriving at Plymouth 12.30 p.m.

 

That seems much better.....

 

 

Thanks very much for everyone's input on this but a special thanks to David and this particular train has got my juices flowing.How many wagons do you reckon then.

 

My NE van has arrived.Photos soon.I wish Bachmann would do a GWR wagon as good as this.

[Captain Kernow]

OK, now this is stretching the sausage skin a bit, but there is a good chance that  I can get you the most delicious Beef (yes Beef) gluten free sausages for trial down there in rural lovely land.

P

Most unusually (for me) I can confirm (and not deny) that this would be a most appreciated and commodious gesture on the part of the most esteemed gentleman, for which due thanks would certainly be proffered!