Great British Locomotives

[Ruffnut Thorston]

Well, Chester WHS only had about 6 GWR Prairie tanks in the Part Works Box this afternoon.

 

The box has moved, by the way, and is now hiding around the back of the shelves forming the queue compound. Next to the counter where I enquired about the GBL when the Butler-Henderson was running late.

 

No Princess seen in WHS (probably running late like BH?) but I went to a smaller News Shop down the road, where they had 2. One in the window, one on the shelf.

 

The one on the shelf is now here with me...pretty much OK, but the nameplate and splasher printing is well out of line on the hidden side. Not too much of a problem...the tender lining is also slightly out on the Port side rear corner, but only a bit.

 

Sainsbury's Ellesmere Port (J10 M53, next to that Cheshire Oaks Place) surprised me on Tuesday afternoon, by having a shelf space for GBL! It was occupied by a lone GWR Prarie tank, that was still there when I left....(This was the first time I had noticed GBL, I am certain there was none about a month ago?)

Edited October 29, 2014 by Sarahagain

[Horsetan]

I already have three Princesses, thanks. None of them GBL....

[railroadbill]

Srsly - unless I get some idea of forthcoming locos that actually appeal to me I'm cancelling after I get my subscription T9. It's getting silly. You can't move round here for GBLs still in their packaging.

 

Could people who actually have a Princess Lillybet have a look at the list of forthcoming attractions in the inside cover of the magazine and see if it has changed since last time (mind you, I haven't seen the little GWR thingy yet)?

The inside cover of issue 19 mag  has a list of "some of the other locomotives in the collection" which is the same as issue 15 (4MT) and in fact same as issue 1(A4) so no help there I'm afraid. (What will issue 48 be?).

[railroadbill]

I already have three Princesses, thanks. None of them GBL....

Shame on you!  

[Wolf27]

Srsly - unless I get some idea of forthcoming locos that actually appeal to me I'm cancelling after I get my subscription T9. It's getting silly. You can't move round here for GBLs still in their packaging.

 

Could people who actually have a Princess Lillybet have a look at the list of forthcoming attractions in the inside cover of the magazine and see if it has changed since last time (mind you, I haven't seen the little GWR thingy yet)?

Some diesels would be nice although it depends on their origin, may even some electrics will appear. Any base models would be of use.(86,87,90 or 91 are all acceptable models on their own right.)

 

Cheers

 

Shane

[Catkins]

If the GBL publishers do produce more diesel, and start producing electric models,  then I could see an EE 350hp shunter, possibly a class 20 / EE type 1, there would have to be a type 3 - either another EE product, or to go with the Western, a Hymek, and in the type 4 category - most likely a Brush variant (the Sulzer Peak has already been mentioned) And I would hope that a Brush type 5 - class 60 - is produced. As far as electric traction is concerned, then the AL1-5 / 81-85 is one model, and I don't think that they would do an 86 and 87 so that would mean one or the other, possibly an 89 (but unlikely as there is no RTR model available) and the later generation classes, 90-92 I think that the 91 would be chosen because it is an "express" passenger loco. I could see then stretching to a Woodhead electric, possibly a 76, and there could be a Metropolitan Electric as well.

 

That's another 10 or 11 possible GBL models, which would still leave 17, so I could see some more steam freight engines being produced.

 

But all of the above is pure speculation, and wishful thinking, on my part.

 

 

 

 

edited for spelling - I must learn to read before posting

Edited October 29, 2014 by Catkins

[298]

Based on both of their past records, I think the combined negative efforts of the mighty Chinese cloning machine and a certain Danish AC electric might result in a better model....

[Buhar]

I expected 6201, but it isn't. Oh well! Princess Margaret, putting the gin in engine.

[Smiffy2]

The locos listed that are still to be released are

T9

Southern N class

Western

J39

Rocket

King class

So nothing new. And the Rocket is still hanging on in there.

[6959]

Reading the posts on this topic I get the idea that one or some amongst us have a feed from or input to whoever is driving the GBL project but have to be careful not to disclose too much. This is aimed primarily at them.

 

Instead of day dreaming and wish-listing about new locomotives from GBL, I wonder if we as a group could gee things along a little by supplying masters and writing some technical information in a way that would appeal to GBL as a company. This is no different from writing a railway book and peddling it to an editor in a vain hope that it will find favour. Publishers are in business for profit so may welcome a well thought out work that can be put to bed quickly without much creative effort and with minimum outlay on the part of the publisher.

 

There must be many enthusiasts on here who would produce RTR models if they had the skill, time and bank balance to achieve it. Aiding and abetting GBL could be a way of getting something we want that the red or blue box brands would not consider to be economically viable in large volume. Making a brass master takes great skill but many on this forum have demonstrated their skill in cut and shut butchery of plastic bits from various sources and can produce a plastic model at least as good as some of the not so recent RTR stock.

 

Careful choice of subject is critical to avoid putting off the big players from doing a proper job. This could be a way of getting for less than a tenner a throw some loco and tender mouldings that can be modified or converted into something realistic.

 

Plagiarism must be avoided in a gentlemanly way but there is a precedent in the music publishing. One member of a four piece 'sixties band from Merseyside said openly in a television interview words to the affect that he borrowed music fragments from any source without conscience because by the time he had changed it many times any witness of prior art was indiscernible or at least not provable in the final product.

 

This is an open forum but any privileged information sent to me in a personal message will be treated in strict confidence.

[John Isherwood]

Why help such a disgusting company with no moral fibre get even richer?

 

Crowd sourcing would be better.

 

Oh - come on !!!

 

I can't see that the GBL operation is in any way damaging the companies whose products they clone in such a crude way.

 

OK, they're making money out of someone else's research, but they're hardly competing with them.

 

What this series has done is to show that there is a good market for loco bodies as spares; if modellers could obtain them in that way there'd have been a lot less demand for GBL.

 

I am currently bringing up to current standards a number of 1970s / 80s locos. Why? Because there is much more modelling satisfaction in starting with a basic component and turning it into a presentable model, than there is in opening a box, fitting the accessory pack, then putting it away again.

 

It is ludicrous that, when model manufacturers do offer spares, certain key components such as bodies are deliberately not made available.

 

Surely, so long as the sum total price of a full set of components is more than the cost of the RTR model, there can be no argument for NOT offering all parts as spares?

 

Just my two penn'orth !

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[Steamport Southport]

I'm not touching that conversation.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I will say that I've picked up three so far with no twists. Even after taking them of the plinths. That includes the footplate. All seem fine to me. 

[Il Grifone]

The locos listed that are still to be released are

T9

Southern N class

Western

J39

Rocket

King class

 

1, 2 and 4 of these have to be copied from Bachmann models (I think that we can discount Wills' kits as a possible source).

3 and 6 are likely to be Lima or Hornby

5 will be Tri-ang (later Hornby). There are others, but very unlikely to be used.

 

There is also supposed to be a 'Peak' - Mainline presumably.

 

My assumptions of course (I have no connection with GBL other than being a satisfied customer - you can't expect miracles for £8.99!)

 

What the other 28 will be is anyone's guess

 

EDIT. The T9 is of course Hornby! Sorry - blame SWMBO who was insisting that I should get ready to go out.....

Edited October 30, 2014 by Il Grifone

[Jock67B]

Morning folks,

Collected my Princess from WHS Clacton late yesterday afternoon and there were only three left - two of which had serious damage to the running plate on the visible side, a big curvature on one and a split on the other. The third, thankfully, looks OK so far! Must have been a popular release as they normally have a pretty full display box! I'm a bit gutted because I had thought of buying two with the idea of attempting a swap for a 2-10-0 but I suppose the Dapol/Airfix kit is possibly better?

I'm now hoping that the weathering man will produce one of his masterly reports like the one he did on the Black5. Didn't notice if he did one on the 4MT or Jinty?

Kind regards,

Jock.

[John Isherwood]

The company behind GBL is rotten.  If you are unaware of how rotten they are, read back through this thread.  They treat customers who subscribed in good faith like dirt and poach the intellectual property of others, a subject matter that has been raised on and off throughout this thread with many interesting views.  You may then change your mind on GBL after reading and seeing what utter crap GBL have been sending out.  Whilst some ideas are okay to a degree, who you want to deal with isn't.  A company as rotten as they have proved themselves can hardly be trusted.

 

Don't just take my word on the subject, there are plenty of others who have been treated very badly on this forum alone.  There will probably be others as well who do not use this forum who have also been affected by their sharp practice.

 

 

As for not making bodies available (and chassis blocks as indicated on some of Hornby's service sheets over the years), this is possibly to get the customer to buy another model.  That said, aren't suppliers supposed to keep a supply of spare parts available for a certain amount of time?  Considering the problems with Mazak rot that are appearing elsewhere on this forum, the lack of chassis blocks is rather naughty. If someone with knowledge of the actual directive for maintaining a supply of spares can post it, that would be useful.

 

Whilst I would not be able to make them available to anyone else, I am going to get someone to try and clone some spare van roofs for a Hornby Hull & Barsley van as an experiment, laser scan them then 3D print.  Then see how it would be altered to fit a different sized model as a learning curve seeing that I can't model as much as used to.  Take something like the Railroad 0-4-0 Bagnall shunter, scan the body, remove the side boxes that hide the motor retaining spring, stretch it to fit a 0-6-0 chassis, you get the idea.

 

Personally, I think it would be a good move if Hornby, for instance, would make plans available for spare parts for people to download and print at a reasonable price, even better if the plans can be edited.

 

I have, in fact read every posting in this thread - and I stick to my view. If the majority of modellers agreed with you, the GBL series would have been dropped after the first issue as hardly anyone would have bought them !

 

What do you expect for less than £10.00? They are selling magazines with freebies, at kids' comic prices, to Joe Public and his kids / grand-kids. That market doesn't expect perfect products and service on a par with the main-stream model railway manufacturers. Face it; most of these replicas are going to end up in kids' toy boxes or on aged enthusiasts' mantle-shelves.

 

If some modellers choose to try and turn them into half decent models, they're not hurting anyone. The guy who buys a couple of crude T9s and bashes them into runners, with components he has in stock or picks up on Ebay, was never going to buy a couple of genuine Hornby T9s at full price.

 

GBL has done the hobby a great service in that their basic, cheap mouldings have prompted a significant number of potential modellers, (as opposed to model buyers), to actually get out the tools and model !

 

So, if you don't approve - fine !! But don't expect the rest of us to get sniffy and self-righteous about this "rotten" company.

 

.... and, just to put this whole thing in context, I haven't bought a single issue of GBL. I've more than enough projects lined up already to keep me going for the rest of my natural ! (Though I did buy at least ten of the YMRV Mk.1 coaches).

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

Edited October 30, 2014 by cctransuk

[Il Grifone]

It would appear that, like Kitmaster and others before them, they have taken on rather more than they can handle. This will inevitably lead to quality control and other issues.

 

(I can remember requesting missing parts from Kitmaster kits many times back in the day - only once with Airfix though.)

[Uries15]

Afternoon All!!

 

(FAO SMIFFY 2) you will note that I managed to get hold of Lizzy Dripping Model yesterday in Portsmouth. Having opened front cover of mag nothing has changed with list of Locomotive from 'Great Bulbous Lumps'!!

 

Still on show are:-

LNER A4

GWR King

LNER A3

LSWR T9 (hoooooooray)!!

GWR City Class

BR 9F

LMS Jinty

BR Deltic

LMS 5MT

Inter City ( the big pile of poooooopee cackeee)!

SR West Country

Stephensons Rocket (WWWWWWWHatttttttttt!!!!)????

GWR Castle

BR 4MT

SR N Class

BR Western

LMS Princess.

LNER J39.

 

On subject of Green Wet & Rusty (GWR) 45xx don't get to excited. Have got hold of three of these models, two already cut up because of awful gaps in plastic boiler parts. Salvaged one out of the two again swopping parts over and spare wheel set will be used in another model.

 

Will try soon to upload photos of these later on as I go along.

 

Hope the list helps you out.???

 

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

...That said, aren't suppliers supposed to keep a supply of spare parts available for a certain amount of time?  Considering the problems with Mazak rot that are appearing elsewhere on this forum, the lack of chassis blocks is rather naughty. If someone with knowledge of the actual directive for maintaining a supply of spares can post it, that would be useful...

I don't believe there is any such directive applicable to what are classed as toys. But I may be wrong, have been before and doubtless will be again, so if someone definitely knows different... (Major consumer items like cars and other durable goods, there are such provisions for sparing.) But as purchasers we always have recourse to the retailer for any manufacturing defect that becomes apparent. Track record of the model railway companies over the past fifteen years for manufacturing issues such as motor burn out, mazak rot, incorrect PCB's, faulty drive lines, is that they have taken care of it by issue of replacement parts or complete chassis. What they are not in any way obliged to do is supply retail any part required for whatever purpose: if they choose to make any such available, well and good; if not the customer still has the option of a complete purchase to obtain what is required.

[298]

Bachmann USA hold very comprehensive stocks of spare parts, although I'm certain they come from dismantled returns instead of a concerted effort to overproduce spares during the original production runs.

 

I'm actually thinking of taking a redundancy and going into business repairing model railways- the after sales support for foreign imports is woeful, as is the atitude of customers. Years ago, my local model shop would have repaired defective locos, now it seems all that happens is they are returned to the manufacturer.

[Il Grifone]

Back in the fifties Dublo and Trix supplied only consumables like bulbs and brushes as spares (even these are hard to obtain for current models*), whereas Tri-ang supplied all the parts. Later Dublo spares were available. Hornby carried on the Tri-ang tradition as long as they manufactured at Margate, but with production in China the position has changed. I can see it switching back again, as Chinese wages rise.....

 

* I realise some brushes can't be replaced and you have to change the whole motor!   (If you can get one.) (Trix did supply connecting rods, but, seeing they had to be removed for servicing, there was a high chance of losing them.)

 

Back on topic, I've been considering what could be cloned for future releases, but not a lot comes to mind:-  An 08/09 diesel shunter (Lima) seems likely, but most of Airfix/Mainline's output is either similar to earlier releases or of limited appeal to the target market, Going back to Tri-ang (as they did with the Bulleid Pacific) we could have an L1 and a B12 or even a Dean and/or CR Single. Class 20, 31, 35 and 37 diesels seem possible (or what about an EM2? - no chance do I hear?). Dublo or Hornby could supply an 8F, but it is rather similar to the Black 5. Hmmmm......

Edited October 30, 2014 by Il Grifone

[Guest spet0114]

Back in the fifties Dublo and Trix supplied only consumables like bulbs and brushes as spares (even these are hard to obtain for current models*), whereas Tri-ang supplied all the parts. Later Dublo spares were available. Hornby carried on the Tri-ang tradition as long as they manufactured at Margate, but with production in China the position has changed. I can see it switching back again, as Chinese wages rise.....

 

* I realise some brushes can't be replaced and you have to change the whole motor!   (If you can get one.) (Trix did supply connecting rods, but, seeing they had to be removed for servicing, there was a high chance of losing them.)

 

Back on topic, I've been considering what could be cloned for future releases, but not a lot comes to mind:-  An 08/09 diesel shunter (Lima) seems likely, but most of Airfix/Mainline's output is either similar to earlier releases or of limited appeal to the target market, Going back to Tri-ang (as they did with the Bulleid Pacific) we could have an L1 and a B12 or even a Dean and/or CR Single. Class 20, 31, 35 and 37 diesels seem possible (or what about an EM2? - no chance do I hear?). Dublo or Hornby could supply an 8F, but it is rather similar to the Black 5. Hmmmm......

Bearing in mind the jaw-dropping prices that some of the Tri-ang and Trix models now fetch, even for tatty examples, (the EM1, EM2 and AL5 all spring to mind), then a GBL clone of these would be most welcome, even if it incorporated the inaccuracies of the original models. 

 

Cheers

Adrian

[emperordalek]

My GBL "Princess Elizabeth" is for sale (unopened) in remarkably good  condition - no warping as I far as I can tell  from the three sides viewing. I would require basic cost plus 2nd Class RM Medium Parcel postage.  Also up for grabs unopened the Standard 4MT tank and GWR Prairie - please pm me if interested. Thanks and regards to all.

[Jerry Rugby]

Hi,

Whilst a lot of what you say is correct John you are completely missing the point that JohnMartin has been making.

It doesnt matter what the product is and who they are selling too or what that 'target market' expects the marketting company behind the GBL range have very clearly fallen short of decent standards of customer service on many reported occasions.

As to the products themselves, again it matters not a jot whether the prodct is aimed at 'joe public' or us modellers.

Either way the product should be of a decent standard of finish without distorted parts or missing parts or livery - all of which we have see on GBL items.

To say that the 'target market' does not 'expect' good service or products at the price is an insult. It does not matter whether GBL models are priced as they are or ten times the price they should still meet a decent standard and when they do not the company should act rather better than they have done. 

Obviously any sensible person will not expect a GBL loco to achieve the standards of finish of one costing ten plus times more but they should still be able to expect the 'cut down' or simplified finish to be of a good standard and not poorly applied.

Likewise the price has no bearing on incomplete models being sent out to subscribers or shops.

 

As you say you have read all the posts in this thread you will see that I have on many occasions stated that if nothing else the GBL models have given the hobby a boost. As you quite rightly say they have encouraged many to, using your very apt words, 'get the tools out' and do some modelling. 

The GBL models have enabled several experienced modellers (such as SACMartin if I may single out just one) to achieve some superb models at reasonable cost and without any shadow of a doubt have brought new blood onto our ranks.

Had the GBL models never appeared our hobby would be much the poorer as a result.

To those out there that have 'taken the plunge' via GBL I say very personally from someone with 55 years in the hobby, but i'm sure I speak for other like me, a very very warm welcome to the ranks - its a real pleasure to have you among us.

 

Regards.

Why help such a disgusting company with no moral fibre get even richer?

 

Crowd sourcing would be better.[/quote

 

I Agree with these views. GBL for all its faults has been good for us modellers providing reasonably good static models as a base for convertions. It depends on the donor model, but overall they have been reasonably accurate and cheap to permit much sawing and cutting. A bit like a modern version of Kitmaster. No doubt some customers have suffered from poor customer service but it seems these are mainly those who took out subscriptions. Personally I put a standing order for 1 of each through my local newsagent and purchased more from high street stores if I thought they were good enough and wanted more. I have not had any problems but accept some are better finished than others. As modellers we can usually correct these and anyway I accept the variable quality for the price. So long as the base model is dimensionally ok I am satisfied.

As a general comment I think most of the copies have been fairly good, some excellent. Some of the G W models have not been so good but this is mostly because of the donor model.

Referring to the list of models mentioned by GBL but not yet produced, the packing card also mentions an LNER V2. This would have to be copied from Bachmn and would be welcome.

I too have a number of Hrnby Priness Royals. Photo of my valve gear and trailing frame conversion might be of interest. This was done using fine brass and plasticard from Princess drawings published in Railway Modeller.

 

Jerry

[69843]

Well, having the chance to do some photography with excellent (if hot!) weather today, and having had a lucky chance to pick up a second Coronation this week, I pulled out my Duchess of Hamilton and did a set of comparison shots. Just to make it clear, DoH is on the right/foreground of the shots, and C is on the left/background

 

Front 3/4 shot

 

Nose comparisons

 

Tender comparisons. The different shades can clearly be seen, particularly the lining

 

Cab side comparisons. The prismatic effect of the GBL windows can clearly be seen, as can the different fonts for the cabside numbering

 

Top shot. This is the only image where the Hornby DoH is on the left and the GBL C is on the right

 

Cab roof and tender top comparisons. The most noticeable thing missing from the GBL model on the cab roof is the rails for the cab ventilator. The undersized safety valves are also noticeable on the GBL model

Edited October 31, 2014 by 69843

[Il Grifone]

There's not a lot of difference between them (there shouldn't be as they are the same locomotive - the GBL model is of 6229 after renumbering but without the headlight - 6220 should be blue*). The Hornby model is more detailed of course.

 

Further investigation of the 'Princess' has revealed that the bend in the running plate is due to the smokebox door assembly standing proud of the smokebox saddle and distorting it when the screw is tightened. Whether it is essential to remove the forward extension of the sub-frame I'm not sure but mine fitted better without it. I've sliced the sub-frame straight back from the lower front section and deepened the slots. The wheels now fit better, but a section now needs to be removed from the running plate to accommodate them. I'm leaving this until I decide what motorised chassis is going to be fitted.

 

There are two spurious axleboxes? fitted to the tender..... These have to come off, but will muck up the paint work.

 

I managed to remove one of the buffer heads intact, but needless to say the other broke off. They have made an attenpt here to ensure correct assembly with a 'D' shaped shank. Unfortunately there is so much slop that the bufferheads still manage to sit at weird angles.

 

In answer to the earlier question, the loco buffers are oval and the tender buffers round.