Removed a/c Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 i think by the time these are released I will have died of old age so price won't matter ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 I wonder whether new releases may be designed in such way as to reduce manual assembly and hence allow them to be produced more cheaply. suspect when labour rates were lower there was little incentive to go this way. Most of what we have seen to date has been designed before labour rates increased so much and as such has been subject to big cost rises. Will be interesting to see if new tranche of models actually come out more cost effective. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rembrow Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 (edited) I wonder whether new releases may be designed in such way as to reduce manual assembly and hence allow them to be produced more cheaply. suspect when labour rates were lower there was little incentive to go this way. Most of what we have seen to date has been designed before labour rates increased so much and as such has been subject to big cost rises. Will be interesting to see if new tranche of models actually come out more cost effective. Hornby tried this approach 2-3 years ago with their 'Design Clever' construction, whereby labour used in construction of the model was reduced by moulding as much as possible in the tooling. This has given us the Mk 1 and 2 coaches, Hall, Duke of Gloucester and P2 locos, 2Bil and 2Hal mus. It wasn't popular amongst buyers who wanted a higher level of detail. They have increased the level of added on detail since last year, but not as great as models of 4 years or more ago, however a reasonable compromise has been reached, with prices of coaches and wagons recently tooled, being lower than those produced 4 years ago. However the level now being attained by Hornby is about the same as Bachmann achieve, as Bachmann did not produce the level of added detail that Hornby used to add, so there is unlikely to be a way for Bachmann to reduce detail if the main competition is achieving more detail at a lower price. Bachmann have already moved to cease using sprung buffers on locos (they did not use sprung buffers on coaches, unlike Hornby), and had already changed motors from 5 pole to 3 pole, where the 3 pole motor will be cheaper to buy in. There is probably little more they can do in terms of detail. Edited January 9, 2016 by rembrow Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny retro Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 (edited) Hornbys coaches would have probably found far many more homes had they not messed up with that visible sole bar. I completely agree! My main concern with the Bachmann coffins is the livery application. Even with a second attempt they still haven't got the mk2a's right! I don't mind paying a bit more if they're spot on, but if they're a blatent rip off, i'll be forced to hunt round on 'greed'bay for Lima alternatives. Edited January 12, 2016 by johny retro Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Decorum Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 I for one decided against a rake of the Hornby coaches. It wasn't a difficult decision; Hornby made it for me. In a nutshell: the coaches with lighting are badly done, there are livery errors (much easier to fix on a second production run than structural errors) and of course, the solebars. Bachmann ones are in the pipeline somewhere. Until they appear, ancient versions will continue to do their duty. What a gift to hand Bachmann! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold stovepipe Posted January 16, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 16, 2016 I didn't get any Hornby Mk2e's for a while, put off by the reviews, but got some recently in the Black Friday sales. They are actually a pretty decent coach for the money, even acknowledging the faults. Stick with the main range, and avoid the lit ones would be my advice. The other factor in getting them was that Bachmann haven't even started the CAD the last time I looked. They are not even on Hattons project update page. http://www.ehattons.com/projectupdates Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerald Henriksen Posted January 16, 2016 Share Posted January 16, 2016 The other factor in getting them was that Bachmann haven't even started the CAD the last time I looked. They are not even on Hattons project update page. http://www.ehattons.com/projectupdates Perhaps you should look earlier in this thread then, when it was pointed out that Bachmann had a partial 3d print on display at Warley in November. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold stovepipe Posted January 16, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 16, 2016 Well it's progress I suppose. Maybe another 12 months to make the other end? Meanwhile the mk2e's will do. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Removed a/c Posted January 16, 2016 Share Posted January 16, 2016 Well it looks like Bachman Mk2 ac's are going to be 100 Euro a pop. Its 70 Euro for a NSE Mk1 now.. No thanks. Ill get more Hornby..35 euro each. This is Hornbys win. They dont have the big ribs on the roof that blue box lovers forget about... How do you know they haven't been made yet ?!?! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BR(S) Posted January 16, 2016 Share Posted January 16, 2016 How do you know they haven't been made yet ?!?! I think he's referring to the Mk1. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium brushman47544 Posted March 31, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 31, 2016 Am I mistaken or does the latest Mk2A BFK http://www.kernowmodelrailcentre.com/p/51288/39-410A-Bachmann-BR-Mk2A-BFK-Brake-First-Corridor-Coach-W17069 still have the lower white band too high, i.e. above the the door bangers? The new TSOs look right. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyman7 Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 Am I mistaken or does the latest Mk2A BFK http://www.kernowmodelrailcentre.com/p/51288/39-410A-Bachmann-BR-Mk2A-BFK-Brake-First-Corridor-Coach-W17069 still have the lower white band too high, i.e. above the the door bangers? The new TSOs look right. From the photo it seems the roof vents haven't been corrected either. On the BFK, they should be in a single line over the compartments. Triang got it right in 1968.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johny retro Posted April 28, 2016 Share Posted April 28, 2016 (edited) Am I mistaken or does the latest Mk2A BFK http://www.kernowmodelrailcentre.com/p/51288/39-410A-Bachmann-BR-Mk2A-BFK-Brake-First-Corridor-Coach-W17069 still have the lower white band too high, i.e. above the the door bangers? The new TSOs look right.I'd still say the white lines one the TSO's are too high up the body. Edited April 28, 2016 by johny retro Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James90012 Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 Just had an email from Hattons - rrp is now £49.99, Hattons to sell at £42.46. Due March/April 2018. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSpencer Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 Just had an email from Hattons - rrp is now £49.99, Hattons to sell at £42.46. Due March/April 2018. I got a mail saying RRP £74.95. Are yours with or without lights? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James90012 Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 I went for without actually. I think I will cancel for the time being and see what the situation is like next year. I only really need a Virgin set. The DBSO has a price now too. Also noticed that another thread is running on this topic so perhaps Mods could close one? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Hilux5972 Posted January 9, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 9, 2017 I got a mail saying RRP £74.95. Are yours with or without lights? Is that the coach or the DBSO? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveClass47 Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 (edited) MK2F - I'd almost forgotten about that release (from 2013)!! Bachmann have updated Hattons with regard to the pricing for their LONG OVERDUE MK2F coaches. When I initially placed an order for these coaches in April 2013 they were priced (estimated at Hattons) at £36.13 for the DCC with Lighting ones. Bachmann have now put a RRP to £74.95 PER COACH for the DCC Lighting version of these! Hattons retail of around £63. But they are not due in stock until April 2018. So will the price go up again? I am bemused; asking £75 for a plastic and metal coach with some lights in it. And they say making products in the UK would be more expensive? I am starting to struggle to see how! Bachmann are pricing the honest, decent, hard working man out of the hobby. Is is simply NOT SUSTAINABLE! Just had an email from Hattons - rrp is now £49.99, Hattons to sell at £42.46. Due March/April 2018. absolute RIP OFF! I cannot believe this price! Edited January 9, 2017 by DaveClass47 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Baron Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 Yes it shameful that they will actually pin you to the ground to buy a product. The level of torture to force people to engage in a hobby they cant afford is shocking. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul.Uni Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 (edited) If I remember correctly we haven't had a RRP before today or if we did it was withdrawn at least a couple of years ago. Are we surprised after the LMS Inspection Saloon, Hawksworth Autocoach, SE&CR Birdcage carriages and others that the previous made up Hattons prices bere no relation with the RRP? Edited January 9, 2017 by Paul.Uni Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James90012 Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 (edited) The issue, of course, is Oxford Rail seem to be able to offer a detailed MK3 for much less. Even accounting for the overheads of a larger firm, the difference is quite staggering. I too have cancelled my order for the time being, it's about being selective now and I do already have a rake of cheap Intercity MK2es from Hornby. There are other options out there! Holding out for a Virgin set though, £42 is expensive but not prohibitive - just means I have to make a decision. Edited January 9, 2017 by James90012 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mod4 Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 Whilst we appreciate that pricing is an emotive subject, but just a preemptive plea to ensure that any discussions remain calm and respectful, as my diodes, especially the left hand side ones, are problematical enough and I can only get replacements from the other end of the universe... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Y Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 MK2F - I'd almost forgotten about that release (from 2013)!! Bachmann have updated Hattons with regard to the pricing for their LONG OVERDUE MK2F coaches. When I initially placed an order for these coaches in April 2013 (yes that's 4 years I have beEn waiting...and counting) they were priced at £36.13 for the DCC with Lighting ones. Bachmann have now put a RRP of (wait for this!!) £74.95 PER COACH for these! That's a rise of £38.82! DOUBLE the original price. DOUBLE! Are they having an early April fools joke on our behalf? But its gets better...they are not due in stock until April 2018. So no doubt the price will go up AGAIN! I am utterly disgusted by the bras neck of Bachmann who are asking £75 for a plastic and metal coach with some lights in it! My first Bachmann MK1 cost me £21 3 years ago.....this latest price is just fantasy! And they say making products in the UK would be more expensive????? I am struggling to see how! Cannot believe this price for a coach. Bachmann...you've a nerve asking for this. You're pricing the honest, decent, hard working man out of the hobby. Continue on this path at your pearl.....where are you going with your pricing structure? Is is NOT SUSTAINABLE! I just did the decent thing.....CANCELLED MY ORDER for 10 of these MK2f. absolute RIP OFF! I cannot believe this price! Make sure you get your facts right before launching into multicoloured outrage, a lot has changed since that time and you wouldn't be getting many new coaches at £36.13 these days; anyway £36.13 doesn't sound like a Bachmann price, surely that's a discounted retailer price (with optional guesswork) which you are comparing with an RRP four years later- £74.95 is for the DCC fitted with lighting option. The standard version is £49.95. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redkiterail Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 Brexit vote has taken 20% to 30% of the value of British pound. It strength versus the dollar is been weaken Bachmann buy plastic metal etc. In dollars not pounds. Secondly china labour cost i.e wages has in the past four years increase far higher than uk Third if you want all extra details the labour cost becomes more of a issue as before credit crunch if extra detail added £2 of cost Bachmann could shoulder it for reduce margin now today that cost can not be shoulder as financial positions have changed. Fourth there are less container ships in the sea increasing shipping cost and causing delays. These massive ships need to be roughly 70%+ full to cover the cost that is a rough guess it can be a lot higher. The effect of the spending cuts by Osborne, Britexit physically in force and President trump are yet to ripple to the bank note in your wallet and the prices for food and hobbies and other items will be in flux until things settle With regards to labour cost in china manufacturing wages currently are £6554.71 per year in china UK=£30524 per year a difference of £23969.29 in other words UK is four times more expensive in terms of manufacturing wages. Oil prices have been and continue to be highly volatile which effects shipping cost, cost of plastic, strength of economies world wide and inflation. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveClass47 Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 (edited) Make sure you get your facts right before launching into multicoloured outrage, a lot has changed since that time and you wouldn't be getting many new coaches at £36.13 these days; anyway £36.13 doesn't sound like a Bachmann price, surely that's a discounted retailer price (with optional guesswork) which you are comparing with an RRP four years later- £74.95 is for the DCC fitted with lighting option. The standard version is £49.95. Post amended. Edited January 9, 2017 by DaveClass47 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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