jhock Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 Can any one help with a question about track that is inlaid in concrete? Â On my new layout I am building a siding for a lumber yard, the track is inlaid in concrete. Â Would wheel stops or bumpers be used on track like this? I have some Hayes wheels stops and Hayes bumpers, would either be used or would the track just stops? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prof Klyzlr Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 Dear J,  Unfortunately, the answer is "depends". Some industries would put wheelstops, crossed-sleepers, or full-sized bumpers at the end-of-track, some just let the rails peter off into the grass/gravel/concrete/tarmac (with potentially disasterous but altogether understandable consequences if an inexperienced crew attempts to spot 11 cars on a 8-car spur...).  If you're modelling a given prototype, look to it for guidance. If not, the decision is yours to make as you feel led...  Happy Modelling,Aim to Improve,Prof Klyzlr Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortliner Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 Looking at Google images - my gusee is the Hayes stops that bolt to the rail seem to be most common - mbut the answer - as per the Profs post - seems to be "It's your choice!" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Wintle Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 I would agree with the Prof - it depends. Also, a lot of lumber yards wouldn't go for the expense of track inlaid in concrete - something like the photos in this thread is more likely unless it is in an urban environment: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/68737-new-layout-idea-by-adapting-a-board-from-sweethome-alabama/ Â Adrian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhock Posted March 4, 2013 Author Share Posted March 4, 2013 Thanks guys, the layout is freelanced so no prototype to follow. Â I think given that the siding ends in front of the lumber yard buildings the Hayes bumper will be the best option as I am sure the Lumber yard owners don't want 73' of centre beam flat in their office! Â I will just have be careful about how fix them to the track as the rails will be concreted in, I guess they might just leave that section of the rail under the bumper exposed? Â I was struggling to find pictures with a google search, lots of bumpers but none in inlaid track. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhock Posted March 4, 2013 Author Share Posted March 4, 2013 I would agree with the Prof - it depends. Also, a lot of lumber yards wouldn't go for the expense of track inlaid in concrete - something like the photos in this thread is more likely unless it is in an urban environment: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/68737-new-layout-idea-by-adapting-a-board-from-sweethome-alabama/ Â Adrian Hi, Â For where raw lumber is being loaded I agree but in my case this the lumber dealer having finished lumber delivered so I think they might concrete as they would need to get forklifts around the cars and other vehicles through the yard. Â P.s. can't wait to see the extension to Sweet Home Alabama, I saw it at St Albans, great layout. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Wintle Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 Thanks guys, the layout is freelanced so no prototype to follow. Â I think given that the siding ends in front of the lumber yard buildings the Hayes bumper will be the best option as I am sure the Lumber yard owners don't want 73' of centre beam flat in their office! Â I will just have be careful about how fix them to the track as the rails will be concreted in, I guess they might just leave that section of the rail under the bumper exposed? Â I was struggling to find pictures with a google search, lots of bumpers but none in inlaid track. Â They certainly might have the end of the track extend beyond their concrete unloading pad, which would make the question of how to install a car stop easier. If you want an even more interesting idea, assume that the track at one point extended to another industry and that extension is disused. The track could then extend off scene in a very weathered state and you could have a small tree growing between the ties. Yes, I've actually seen this - on a siding that also accessed a lumber yard (although the lumber yard was a siding off that one). Â Adrian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Wintle Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 Hi,  For where raw lumber is being loaded I agree but in my case this the lumber dealer having finished lumber delivered so I think they might concrete as they would need to get forklifts around the cars and other vehicles through the yard.  P.s. can't wait to see the extension to Sweet Home Alabama, I saw it at St Albans, great layout.  It is also true of where lumber is being unloaded. A rail served lumber yard is likely a distribution point, almost certainly not a retail lumber dealer which would be supplied by truck. Even large retail lumber dealers likely don't have paved back lots where the bulk lumber is. Of course, these days a lot of lumber is bought at Home Depot/Lowes/etc... where it is stored indoors (and delivered by truck), so the number of large retail lumber yards is limited. You used to go to a lumber yard even for a few 2x4s - that isn't the case any more - even contractors will use the big-box retail locations for the supplies for small (home reno etc.) jobs.  Here is a rail-served lumber yard. The paved area ends just before you get to the rail cars. http://maps.google.ca/maps?hl=en&ll=43.862961,-79.510497&spn=0.003168,0.005177&t=h&z=18  Here is another. The paved area only goes to about the back of the building. http://maps.google.ca/maps?hl=en&ll=43.936253,-79.510599&spn=0.003164,0.005177&t=h&z=18  Adrian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Bull Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 If you're free lance and making your own choice bear in mind that model cars don't have brakes and are liable to roll if the layout is knocked as well as when trying to couple up before pulling the car off the siding. Some sort of stop is therefore desirable even if missing from similar real lif situations. An oil drum or packing crate fouling the loading gauge would work in this respect, providing it is firmly glued down. you then have a siding which appears to end with no fixed bumper but the crate/drum/whatever will stop your cars rolling too far. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhock Posted March 4, 2013 Author Share Posted March 4, 2013 It is also true of where lumber is being unloaded. A rail served lumber yard is likely a distribution point, almost certainly not a retail lumber dealer which would be supplied by truck. Even large retail lumber dealers likely don't have paved back lots where the bulk lumber is. Of course, these days a lot of lumber is bought at Home Depot/Lowes/etc... where it is stored indoors (and delivered by truck), so the number of large retail lumber yards is limited. You used to go to a lumber yard even for a few 2x4s - that isn't the case any more - even contractors will use the big-box retail locations for the supplies for small (home reno etc.) jobs.  Here is a rail-served lumber yard. The paved area ends just before you get to the rail cars. http://maps.google.ca/maps?hl=en&ll=43.862961,-79.510497&spn=0.003168,0.005177&t=h&z=18  Here is another. The paved area only goes to about the back of the building. http://maps.google.ca/maps?hl=en&ll=43.936253,-79.510599&spn=0.003164,0.005177&t=h&z=18  Adrian Thanks Adrian, that last one is particularly useful, I don't have a lot of room so can only represent part of the yard, the unloading area in the bottom left of the yard is perfect. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave1905 Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 Thanks guys, the layout is freelanced so no prototype to follow.  I think given that the siding ends in front of the lumber yard buildings the Hayes bumper will be the best option as I am sure the Lumber yard owners don't want 73' of centre beam flat in their office!  I will just have be careful about how fix them to the track as the rails will be concreted in, I guess they might just leave that section of the rail under the bumper exposed?  I was struggling to find pictures with a google search, lots of bumpers but none in inlaid track.  Things to consider. If the bumpers are IN the pavement then you will need some sort of barriers around them so somebody driving a car, truck or tractor or walking doesn't run into them and rip the suspension out of the vehicle (or trip over them).  Also realize that the bumper don't stop cars being spotted. They just keep cars that might be rolling a bit from going off the track. If a job shoves 4 cars in a 3 car spur, the bumper (unless its a big honking concrete one) won't stop the car. It will just derail it or knock it off center (off its trucks) and the car will be just passing through the office space.  A cut of 3 or 4 loads will roll right through a fabricated bumper (like the ones Walthers sells). Now on a model railroad, they are much more effective. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prof Klyzlr Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 Dear Dave, Â Just another example of how physical forces such as mass and inertia just don't quite "scale"... :-) Â Happy Modelling,Aim to Improve,Prof Klyzlr Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trisonic Posted March 6, 2013 Share Posted March 6, 2013 Just an excuse for me to post this photo: Â Â Â Not set in concrete, I know but "railroads" always look on the "cheap" side........... Â Best, Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesmc Posted March 7, 2013 Share Posted March 7, 2013 Some detailed photos of lumber yard siding in this thread. http://www.westcoastrailforums.com/thread-6953-page-13.html Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhock Posted March 7, 2013 Author Share Posted March 7, 2013 Some detailed photos of lumber yard siding in this thread. http://www.westcoastrailforums.com/thread-6953-page-13.html Thanks for the link some very useful pictures and an interesting thread also. Â I note that at the lumber yard the tracks just stop with no wheel stops or bumper, I guess it makes it ease to move forklifts and trucks around the yard. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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