Car cards and waybills

[clark33]

Barry, the exhibition scenario described would certainly hold the attention of exhibition attendees. I’d think that if I had something to take from home, I’d do it. In fact I’d have to, as there is hardly any interest here. I’d guess if I made my ‘Havana Transfer’ module (NY harbour pocket terminal) more detachable, I could. Me-thinks I’d need some weight saving techniques, as the plane to Manila has a 15kg baggage limit.

 

Anyway, these CC boxes are made of 6mm plywood or quarter ply board as the call it here, then varnished. Some boxes are screwed to my lighting valence, so I don’t bash them with my electric wheelchair. Some are two boxes two separated by a mug shelf. All boxes have SPOT-HOLD-PULL. But the staging yard boxes are EMPTY-DEBILL-REBILL-READY.

 

This is a north-south route, with 4 track staging yards. North is Greenville, south is Key West,  eight switching locations in between.  

[clark33]

Barry, nice one! The exhibition scenario described would certainly hold the attention of exhibition attendees. I’d think that if I had something to take from home, I’d do it. In fact I’d have to there is hardly any interest here. I’d guess if I made my ‘Havana Transfer’ module (NY harbour pocket terminal) more detachable, I could. Me-thinks I’d need some weight saving techniques, as the plane to Manila has a 15kg baggage limit.

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Hm, somehow first few lines of text missing.

[shortliner]

Lovethat sunrise/sunset photo background

[shortliner]

Al - if it is any use to you, I have some pages printed out regarding CC/wb/freight operations - I can easily photocopy/scan and send if you want them = if you do, PM me your address

Best

Jack

[Barry Ten]

Al - if it is any use to you, I have some pages printed out regarding CC/wb/freight operations - I can easily photocopy/scan and send if you want them = if you do, PM me your address

Best

Jack

 

Thanks Jack, very kind - reckon I've got just enough to be starting out with now, though - I'm not really aiming for realism or complexity at this point, just to get some sense of purpose into my operations. With luck I may make a start on the CCs this week.

[dave1905]

Here are some of my CC&WB items.

I use more or less "standard" CC&WB made with a homegrown Access database.  I have added colored bands on the waybills to indicate blocking.  Here are some of my waybills.  On the top row are a couple normal waybills.  To the right is a hold for local loading waybill.  It sends a car to a station where it will hold for a loading at that station.  On the bottom left are what I call block cards.  Waybills with just the blocking name and color band.  They are used on overhead through business, to balance traffic flows and to temprarily over ride a normal waybill.  On the bottom right is a local work card, it is used to mark a car to be handled by a specific job, for example this car would indicate that only No. 744 (the southward local) would handle this car.  It is placed in the car card pocket in front of the regular waybill.  The local crew can remove it to know what to do with the car.

 

 

My car cards have a folded pocket at the bottom.  I don't use pictures on the car cards.  On the left is a CC with a regular waybill and one with a block card next to it.  Both of these cars would be handled the same (since Reading is a staging yard).  In the middle is a car with the local work card applied and to the right of that is a card with a hold for local loading waybill.  On the right is a pack of CC&WB for a train with the train card on top.

 

 

I file my extra waybills by the industry (on move 1).    They are in a plastic storage box with homemade dividers.

 

 

I have two types of CC boxes.  Since I have narrow aisles and want to maximize operator space, I have recessed the CC boxes into the fascia.  I have one box per track .  At the main yard at Wilmington the boxes are oriented vertically. 

 

The rest of the CC boxes hold the CC lying flat.  I have cut some little recesses to make it easier to grab the CC's.

 

[uax6]

When I were a lad (about 25 years ago) there was a railway around three out of four walls of my bedroom. It had 4 stations and to make it operate better (or more interestingly) each wagon had a card. These were bits of card (different colours I recall for different types of wagon) with the destinations that that wagon was required to call at. The destination was selected by moving a paperclip down the side to point to the next destination. I can't remember if it mentioned whether the wagon was loaded or empty, but that could easily be done with another list on the card and paperclip.

Each station had two boxes (we used boxes that Berol pens came in) one marked 'in' the other 'out', and the wagons progressed as the cards showed. Not all wagons visited all locations BTW.

 

Andy G

[clark33]

Here’s the car cards I use. The operator/engineer/conductor handful are put together by the dispatcher. Showing;  L2R; a train card with notes ; a loco card with notes, as many car cards with way-bills, a caboose card. I operate alone and role-play all four jobs.

 

Car cards are 2  ¼ by 3 inches, but train and loco cards start twice as big and are then folded in middle, then glued back to back. Car cards are 5 inches, but folded at bottom, stuck with clear tape to make a pocket.

 

It’s only when you tprint this stuff, that a sanity check kicks in. I’ll nee to change some errors, then print more. The TPIX cars should be RP, so should the way-bills. Ref; http://www.oocities.org/wilsonbrucea@rogers.com/AARFreightCarCodes.pdf

 

Your comments would be welcome.

[dave1905]

There is a lot of verbiage on the cards that isn't necessary to move the cars.  Don't understand the purpose of the SAL 4030 card, there isn't really anything I can see that I would use during an operating session on the card. I prefer cards and waybill that only have information that I as an operator need to properly move the car or affects what I do with the train.  The more information the user has to sort through, the more likely the operator is to make a mistake.  Many people say that the operators can just ignore the other information.  True.  But if they are going to ignore the information, I'm don't want to spend the time to put it on the paperwork.

 

Here's a blocking sheet from my railroad.  Note the color stripes on the sheet match the color stripes on the waybills pictured above.

 

[Barry Ten]

As mentioned in the layout thread, I've started adding waybill boxes:

 

 

 

These are fixed on with Velcro - a good idea except I used way too much, so now I suspect the fascia will come off before the boxes do. However, I shouldn't need to move these.

 

Meanwhile, my wife has kindly helped me with the making of the car cards, all 100 of them - she did the folding, I did the sellotaping. It was one of those jobs you could easily do while half watching a TV program. Next is to start filling in the car cards for the subset of my cars that will form part of the operations, and then start thinking about the waybills. That said, I wonder if I have more than 100 cars anyway, and 100 is probably going to be more than the layout can easily handle on stage at any one time.

 

Since my yard isn't up and running yet, and won't be a for a while, I think the thing to do will be to pencil in some temporary routing information just to begin getting the hang of things. Later, the yard can become one of the destinations.

 

 

[CVSNE]

Since my yard isn't up and running yet, and won't be a for a while, I think the thing to do will be to pencil in some temporary routing information just to begin getting the hang of things. Later, the yard can become one of the destinations.

Boxes are looking very nice. I'd hesitate to make the "yard" a true destination. The destination should be an industry or another railroad (for interchange purposes). The yard itself is not a "destination" it merely serves as a way to sort cars into blocks and trains going to a destination.

The only exception I can think of is a "When Empty Return To" instruction.

 

Marty

[mgilger]

 

An interesting topic.

 

I haven't used car cards and waybills but you may be interested in my shunting spreadsheet, which I developed partly for my small US switching layout, but mostly as an academic exercise, just to suit myself. It generates shunting moves for the stock, loads and locations you specify. It's geared towards a group of industries in one location because there's no option to specify towns as such, but theoretically the locations could be anywhere.

 

It may be a bit simplistic for your needs:

 

http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/newsforyou/shunting.xls

 

Instructions are here:

 

http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/newsforyou/computerisedshunting.pdf

Thanks for posting your Shunting spreadsheet.

 

I'm currently using Car Cards, but I'm always looking for something a bit easier to use. The reason is that I model in 'G' scale, outdoors, with over 1600 feet of track. The Car Cards work, but are sometimes a bit of a hassle as you never seem to have enough hands or pockets to keep them in as your walking around the layout. We carry our controller, walkie talkies, car cars, and uncoupling tool with us as we walk with our trains around the layout. Also, when we are having our operating session, some of the guys like attaching the cards to the cars, so there always dropping off or blowing away. Maybe a clip board with the shunting schedulie might work out better.

 

http://mmg-garden-rr.webs.com/

 

Regards,

Mark

[Barry Ten]

Boxes are looking very nice. I'd hesitate to make the "yard" a true destination.

 

That makes sense - I guess it would be acceptable to route it "via" a yard, though?

 

 

[Barry Ten]

Come to the conclusion, after an exhaustive search, that the reason I can't find the Tony Koester book is that I've never owned it. Doh!

[shortliner]

Picked up a link to another car orders group from one on which I am currently a member http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CarCards/

 

- the system looks interesting so I have joined

 

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/carordersmrr/

[dave1905]

Also, when we are having our operating session, some of the guys like attaching the cards to the cars, so there always dropping off or blowing away. Maybe a clip board with the shunting schedulie might work out better.

 

Another option is to mount a small piece of sheet metal, tin or steel, to the top of the car and then write the destination information on some of those strip magnets.  then you just attach the magnet to the top of the car.  Nothing to carry and nothing blows off, yet its removeable and with some care, could be made fairly unobtrusive.

[shortliner]

Another alternative - a tiny hole drilled in the top of the car, and coloured thumbtacks. The colour of the thumbtack shows the town/area/place/. Each Siding has a destination number which is included on the top of the individual thumbtack (a dot punched out of a sticky label with the number written on it will work) - the facia at each destination (Colour) has a track diagram with numbers agianst the sidings/destination. Offspots are parked in available spaces with tacks left on until they can be spotted correctly. The thumbtacks are left on the cars when they are dropped at destination as they are unloading. Any cars already at destination with tacks on them have tacks removed. Next freight arrives and any cars already there without tacks are given new tacks and then picked up by that freight. Tacks are removed with a magnet on the end of a stick - it could even be on the other end of your uncoupling skewer.

[Barry Ten]

Another alternative - a tiny hole drolled in the top of the car, and coloured thumbtacks.

 

I've seen people stick labels to the tops of the cars but it goes totally against the grain for me - I'm trying to make the things look like real boxcars, not like markers in some big board game. Each to their own, though...

[JWB]

The "board game" version of operation has always been out there. In the 1970s I heard of a club, even earlier, that put toothpicks with little flags noting the train number in the smokestacks of locos! Each to their own, I guess, although the closer you get to the theoretical board game, the less tolerant those guys seem to be of scenery, weathering, whatever else turns someone's crank!

[Barry Ten]

The "board game" version of operation has always been out there. In the 1970s I heard of a club, even earlier, that put toothpicks with little flags noting the train number in the smokestacks of locos! Each to their own, I guess, although the closer you get to the theoretical board game, the less tolerant those guys seem to be of scenery, weathering, whatever else turns someone's crank!

 

The extreme version of that is that modeller whose work appears in MR now and then (David Barrow, I think?) - the one who has reduced model railroading to the hyper minimalist basics - boards that are just flat surfaces, for the most part, minimalist industries, no scenery to speak of. I admire the aesthetic purity of it but if you've gone that far, I wonder why you'd even bother with a 3-d model at all, and not just run the whole thing on a computer.

[shortliner]

The late, great, John Allen, and David Barrow, used small H shaped cards painted and lettered, in place of thumbtacks - they just sat on top of the car - held by the roof-walks, and meant that the car didn't need a hole drilled in it - I see no reason why small slices, taken off plastic H girders, wouldn't work too. Way back - when I could see to work in N (  ) - I used small squares of tin can, with the four corners turned down, painted and letraseted for switching destination markers

[CVSNE]

That makes sense - I guess it would be acceptable to route it "via" a yard, though?

 

 

Not neccesarily.

You might show "via" a place (town or city name) OR a junction point - which may or may not have a yard associated with it. For a practical matter, on a layout, I've used and often see the yards listed as "VIA" destinations.

For example, on my layout a waybill might read (my notes in italics are not actually on the waybills!!):

 

FROM: Acme Machine Tool, Chicago, IL

TO: Rutland Tool Co, Rutland, VT

Routing: PRR, NHRR, CV, RUT (btw, this is neat, but  I sometimes don't fill it out, or will simply indicate "B&M - Boston" or B&M - Conn River". What's important to me is in this case the routing indicates the car starts from the south end of the CV - so I know where it's coming from - and that's important to me when it's time to stage the railroad - but it's almost meaningless during the session. )

VIA: Essex Junction (Burlington) (The actual "on layout" point the car is delivered to. My YM knows this car is to go into a train bound for Essex Junction, which is the point where the Burlington branch connects to the main. From Essex Junction it will be taken to the Rutland interchange in Burlington. In reality, it will dead end on a siding and I'll flip the waybill between sessions.)

CONTENTS: Machinery, NOIBN

 

 

What will happen with this car? It will come onto the railroad from the south end staging yard and end up in White River Junction yard. In WRJ, the YM will look at the waybill, see it is a "short" (a car bound for a point before the next division point, or, more importantly a town actually modeled on my railroad.

He'll pull the car out of the train and put it over on the track he's designated for Train 211, the northbound wayfreight leaving later "today" - or even tomorrow - there's no real rush here.

The crew of 211 will take the car to Essex Junction, where they will set it out on one of the two tracks designated for cars going to/from th Burlington branch. Essex Junction has a dedicated switcher, and they'll put this car in their train and take it from Essex Junction to Burlington.

 

Nowhere on the waybill is White River Junction yard or Essex Junction yard mentioned as a "via" point.

 

Remember, the purpose of (most) yards is to sort cars - not to store them - and not to serve as an origin or destination.

 

And, as an aside, one of the best instructional guides I know of for setting up waybills/car cards is http://home.comcast.net/~prrndiv/ccandwb.html

[dave1905]

On  a real waybill the routing and via are the same thing.  Routing is a list of the railroads and junction points:

 

RDG-Williamsport-NYC-Chicago-CNW-Fremont-UP

 

Real waybills don't list yards on routes, unless the car is possibly going to storage.  Most of the time if the waybill is sending a car to a "yard" it sends it to the station or the agent.  If you look at my hold for local loading waybills they send the car to the agent at Coatesville, not the yard at Coatesville.  All those "When empty return to..." stencils send the car to the agent of a particular railroad (or a company) at a particular station, NOT to a yard (there may be a yard at the station).

 

On a real railroad the junction points between railroads are specified on the waybill, but the internal routing over any particular railroad is not.  So the RDG has to give the above car to the NYC at Williamsport, but the NYC can use any route it wants to run the car between Wiliamsport and Chicago.  The waybill doesn't set the route over the NYC.  That's a management decision set by the railroad.

 

On model railroads though it is fairly common to specify the internal routing on the waybill because its handy.  A real railroad has a train or transportation plan that lays out what cars ride what trains between which points.  Putting the yard on the via line more or less puts the transportation plan on the waybill.

[JWB]

And the tracks that cars go to in a "return to" aren't really "yards" in the sense of track arrangements that facilitate classification or rearrangement of cars. They're typically a set of spurs or long sidings that hold empties for assignment as needed to a particular big industry. On a computer waybill system they would be called an "intermediate" destination that doesn't change the load-empty status of a car.

[clark33]

This is what happens when you reprint the car cards and waybills to have compatibility of RP.

 

Somehow my printer does not print the rotated text I edited in Windows 2010 for the LOAD 2 cell, only when you eyeball the finished item that you see a gross error. Solution was to cut & paste a paper LOAD 2 cell on top of the card LOAD 2 cell. Then you have a 4 cycle waybill. I see a bug in Windows 2010 code. Any ideas?

 

Why XMAS TREES in an RP car?  That traffic, my whim, is for the Spanish/Catholic/Filipino Havana residents, descendent families of the 1920 Pullman car porters. They are big on Christmas. This is a November/December card!

 

There certainly is too much text on the cards. I’m migrating most text to a working timetable. Here, I’m the dispatcher /yard-master/engineer/conductor, but not a bean counter so will dispense with the STCC. After all, the engineer is only interested in loads & empties.

 

Phil