Lee m22 Posted March 16, 2013 Author Share Posted March 16, 2013 Hello all Now that I havethe boards and backscenes together, along with the track plan laid out, I've looked to start mocking up the station layout....Epic Fail N0.1! So I've not really given myself the width needed to get the station in fully and now some compromises will have to be made. Ok, to explain my choices, I can leave the track plan as it is now and portray the wide platforms nicely and use the lift tower for the footbridge as the scenic break on the left of the portal through the backscene as planned. TO achieve this though, I will have to give up the disused bay platforms, which was a nice feature of the station. The alternative choice is to keep the bays, and move the four main running lines to the left (in the first picture). This will require me shortening the footbridge, and leaving a very tight gap on the platform between the tower and the edge. It would also bring the plaform right to the edge of the baseboards. The second photo shows the maximum space for the bay platform if I go this route. So what do people thing would be best to do here? I'm not trying to model Rhyl to the exact feature, so I'm not overly put out by my oversight, but I would like to know what people think is more important between modelling the bays or the wider platforms. I would shorten the bays from what I believe would have held 5 MK.Is to a scale of 3 MK.Is and of course, I intend them to be disused with the track ripped up. I might be able to get a bit of extra space my increasing the curves in the track (bowing out the space between platfom 2 and 3) or would reducing the bay from a double to a single be a better compromise?? Please let me know what you think! In the meantime, I'm off to get some card to try and curve the backscene. Regards Lee Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Flying Pig Posted March 16, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 16, 2013 Oops - looks like we all forgot about the bay. All is not lost, however. Try mocking up the lift tower and platform structures to see how much you can squeeze things. Looking at photos of the station, it appears that the platform buildings and canopy will hide the edge of platform 1 from the viewer anyway, so whether it's strictly too narrow is to a great extent academic. The main constraint though is the Down Passenger (platform 3 road) and in particular the radius of the curve that gets it round to the fiddle yard. Since this is probably already about as tight as you want it, you'll need to joggle the track to gain the extra platform width you need for the bay. Again it looks like the buildings and canopies would do a good job of hiding this ruse and suggesting that the track continues straight under the bridge (canopy drawn in blue below). As for the bay, again a mockup will help you decide how big it needs to be. My guess is that without track or trains it may well look bigger than it is. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee m22 Posted March 17, 2013 Author Share Posted March 17, 2013 Thanks for the reply Simon. I've bitten the bullet and moved the fiddle yard back to the edge (giving up on the extra storage roads. This has given me a bit more room to push the Plat 3 road back a bit. A 12cm wide island platform (just under 60' scale) still leaves a bit of room on the edge of the board. I took your advice and started mocking things up a bit. I've got to make some adjustments to the building (shame but oh well) and this should see the really long expanse of the footbridge represented nicely I'm currently drawing up some templates for the tower and stair section of the building. I've learn't a lot looking in more detail about the footbridge today so that's been well worth while. The fact the bridge is much wider than it looks will help to hide the scenic break rather well I might consider putting mirrors on the platforms under the footbridge. I'm going to have to give the fiddle yard some thought. I will probably need a few extra storage roads in the long run! I'll post some pics once I've made enough up to illustrate the fix. Regards Lee Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonas Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 At least you noticed all this before pinning any real track down dude! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee m22 Posted March 17, 2013 Author Share Posted March 17, 2013 Aye True enough Steve! The end result after some mocking up Aside the fact I am a muppet and these two towers need to be swapped, this gives a good idea of the size and scale of things. I've managed to keep the running lines straight, so no need to curve the P3 line in thankfully. I can fit a small amout of the building that should extend to the edge of the baseboard, but more importantly, there is room for the gates onto the platform where the post vehicles could access the station. Nice little feature that I wanted to keep. The platform in the center gets an extra 5mm width and I can shave 2 or 3 off the bay width as there will not be any trains parking up in it so I'm happy as a compromise that I will still capture the flavour of the station. Thoughts and suggestions welcome! Regards Lee Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
1977joey Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 Fantastic Lee, it's rare I venture to the planning section (I know I should) but I clicked on your link on my thread. I love layout's based in North wales & this looks really well planned. Good luck with it & i'm going to be looking forward to the updates All the best, Mark Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Flying Pig Posted March 17, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 17, 2013 Glad it's working and those are pretty tidy structures for mockups. It'll be interesting to see how well the footbridge hides the hole in the sky - looks like it's going to be very effective. I've managed to keep the running lines straight, so no need to curve the P3 line in thankfully. I still think this dodge is worth consideration as I reckon you could get another 5mm with the curves hidden completely behind the tower and footbridge. Must admit though that the platform is looking healthier in your photos and avoiding wiggles may give better running. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee m22 Posted March 18, 2013 Author Share Posted March 18, 2013 Fantastic Lee, it's rare I venture to the planning section (I know I should) but I clicked on your link on my thread. I love layout's based in North wales & this looks really well planned. Good luck with it & i'm going to be looking forward to the updates All the best, Mark Thanks Mark! The North Wales scene as interested me since my last project and I'm certainly enjoying this one! There have been many fantastic contributions from the forum already and I've barely started! Thanks for the info on your thread, I'll be ordering some of the valance sheets! I'll try and eek updates on the blog until I'm ready to stray back into a proper about thread. Glad it's working and those are pretty tidy structures for mockups. It'll be interesting to see how well the footbridge hides the hole in the sky - looks like it's going to be very effective. I still think this dodge is worth consideration as I reckon you could get another 5mm with the curves hidden completely behind the tower and footbridge. Must admit though that the platform is looking healthier in your photos and avoiding wiggles may give better running. Tanks for your suggestions Simon and kind comments. I think when I start laying track, I'll try setting up the dodge to see what it can gain me. The wide platforms are an important feature at Rhyl I think. As for the footbridge, I think it will work well. I might move it a couple of mm off the backscene and is really quite wide and low too! I might try mirrors on the platforms to offer the illusion that they continue on, but I'll deffo "black out" the area off scene so as to hide the transition as best as possible! That's again for the help and comments! Lee Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 It is a shame you dont have more length seeing as much of the interest that once lay at Rhyl station was beyond the road bridge that crosses the station Up platform. The road bridge is in the background and this is what you lose, including the well-known signal gantry from which this photo was taken.... Not sure if I posted this before, but it shows the extent of Rhyl including the good yard and 'Denbigh' bay platforms, taken from No.2 signalbox on 22nd May 1977.... Here's a shot of a train that is terminating in Rhyl. 40121 has arrived with the 07.58 from Liverpool and is propelling its stock into the Up platfrom before running round to work the 10.05 Rhyl to Liverpool on 2nd August 1980.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee m22 Posted March 18, 2013 Author Share Posted March 18, 2013 Thanks for the photographs! they are very intersting ideed! I wish I had room to model all of the station and the yard too. Mind, I have struggled to compress the western end of the station into 12' so unless I win the lottery, I guess I'll have to make do! How many lines continue to Prestatyn in the first shot? 3 I'm guessing? The other photos both of great interest! The second one will definatly help with the platform detailing (still not sure how I will construct my platforms yet). It's interesting to see the goods building with the big doors on the face of it. The pictures I've been using as reference show a new building running accross the front of this one, rendering the doors internal. How things change. I had planned to build these in low relief on the backscene but now I will have to choose which guise to present them in!! The third is also interesting as the parcel lift towers used to be cladded I see. Again in the similar photo I have been using (from the footbridge, the towers appear to be in their current form with face brick). The bridge towers are very wide set, which makes a big feature of the very long footbridge. I've been playing with plasticard to see how to get the ever-so-slight angle into the bridge. I think the towers set back will also aid in covering up the whole in the backscene where the P3 road runs through. Really great to see them photos so thanks very much!! Regards Lee Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 Glad the pictures are of use Lee. I will see if I have any closer shots of the bridge and yard buildings. As the shot below shows, Rhyl had a lot going for it before the 1990 remodelling. If I had room indoors where the station could be the key feature, I'd be tempted to do Rhyl in the 1950s. There was the platform behind no.2 signalbox (I departed there on the 'Welsh Dragon') and the loco depot, so it really was a major station with at least one pilot engine. I recall trying to see inside an elderly LNWR saloon coach that had been left in one of the stubs near the Denbigh bay. 25124 departing Rhyl yard with the pick up goods to Holyhead on 13th September 1978 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonas Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 Now there is a lovely freight train to model, too! Great pics Mr. Coachmann. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Stubby47 Posted March 18, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 18, 2013 Coach, Between P2 and the bay, and the bay and P3, there are two very small bays in the end ramps. Were these for anyting in particular, or just a saving on material in the ramps ? Stu (feeling very homesick seeing all these pics...) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 Those stubs where what I was referring to with the LNWR saloon coach. They presumably held locos at one time when times were very busy. May have been for a pilot engine or an engine to work train out to Denbigh while the released loco went on shed.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Stubby47 Posted March 18, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 18, 2013 Wow, that looks complex! Thanks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee m22 Posted March 19, 2013 Author Share Posted March 19, 2013 Thans again Coachman for the photo, that is fantastic The photo is tempting me to put the yard head shunt in (must resist) Half way to modelling that goods train Steve! Just need the 25 and what I assume is a chemicals tank at the back! It's a shame to think that even before the 90's remodelling, Rhyl was already past it's prime. Regards Lee Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Flying Pig Posted March 19, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 19, 2013 You don't actually have to put the headshunt in - you could just show where it used to be: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee m22 Posted March 20, 2013 Author Share Posted March 20, 2013 I like your thinking Simon! In all the pictures I see of Rhyl, there is a sense of change and restructure. Your suggestion would be a good way to portray this. I also like the way you have rearranged the sidings. I think it looks a little more intersting than my initial plan which was rather generic fiddle yard style. Would you suggest installing the redundant double slip or just putting a standard point in here as planned, then modelling the trackbeds with a few panels of removed track? Onto the subject of stock, I've been giving this area some thought and wondering what would suit the layout setting. I'm looking to build up a stock list that suits the BR Blue era through the 70's and a second set for the secorisation from the mid to late 80's. (I may stray into early 90's once I've got the other two collections complete) So starting with the BR Blue era. what suits? Loco's are obvious but it's more the working and rolling stock that I'm a novice at! So far I've got or I'm planning; DMU 108 started a rake of Mk.I's Any particular formations I should consider? I started a home fuels train for my last project so TTA tanks and 14t open wagons I've got a variety of Railfreight wagons (VGAs, VDA, OBA etc) Ballast YGB train with a shark underway - I'm looking forward to the GF Salmon wagons being released as well for my PW trains. Mail trains with Parcel GUV's etc A sleeper service MK.III's More general goods trains (any wagon suggestions?) I've seen lots of trains of BR Vans during the 70s.. can someone tell me what they carried and which models are out there that best suit? I've got half a trainload of HEA coal hoppers. I've got a big thing for TEA 100t tankers but so far I've only found one photo of them through Rhyl and they were on their way to the scrappers! Did these tanks work this line in the 70's/early 80's? I'm sure I will form a better comprehensive list as time goes by. I'm spending spare time looking at NW photos of the time and trying to tie up their locations to see if they passed through Rhyl. A fun way of learning more about the route and not just the location. The photos and suggestions received on here have been fantastic too! Any advice or suggestions gratefully received! Regards Lee Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Flying Pig Posted March 20, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 20, 2013 I think I'd go with a standard point as a Peco double slip probably isn't going to quite look the part, but you could try mocking up the timbering of the slip. Have you considered using fiNetrax sleeper panels for abandoned track? How about one of Chester's Class 103 Park Royal DMUs for local colour? Unfortunately you've just missed this extremely rare rtr example on eBay Class 103 Driving Trailer M56152 at Chester by 74009, on Flickr Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee m22 Posted March 21, 2013 Author Share Posted March 21, 2013 Thanks for the comments. That track system looks very promising! I might just consider that for disused panels, though I don't want it to show up my running track! I'd seen the 103 on Ebay (been on there hunting wagons a lot recently) I'll keep a look out for them in the future. I've found a picture of bogie tankers going through Chester recently, but I don't know if they where destined for the NW line. I should have also mentioned a freightliner train once I figue what containers would have been seen in this era! Regards Lee Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Stubby47 Posted March 21, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 21, 2013 Freightliners (as I remember them...) were mainly the silver boxes with the Freightliner red banding, plus lots of empty wagons. Didn't see many other liveries, but no doubt photos of Holyhead docks will show the variety used. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee m22 Posted March 21, 2013 Author Share Posted March 21, 2013 Good shout Stubby Most the picture's I've seen are normally of plain containers of one colour (red, green, grey etc) with perhaps ID numbers etc. Perhaps I'm best just ignoring the liveries and then just respraying containers into generic colours. There are loads of container wagons up for grabs second hand on the auction sites etc. Plenty of the freightliner grey/red ones tbf. Are the GF container wagons decent models? Hoping that the prolific number up for grabs isn't because they are outdated! Lee Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Flying Pig Posted March 21, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 21, 2013 I'd seen the 103 on Ebay (been on there hunting wagons a lot recently) I'll keep a look out for them in the future. Sorry, Lee - I was being sarcastic at the expense of the person who listed a Poole era Class 101 on eBay as a Class 103. Unfortunately the closest you're going to get to a Class 103 is a Worsley Works "scratch aid" kit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee m22 Posted March 21, 2013 Author Share Posted March 21, 2013 Sorry, Lee - I was being sarcastic at the expense of the person who listed a Poole era Class 101 on eBay as a Class 103. Unfortunately the closest you're going to get to a Class 103 is a Worsley Works "scratch aid" kit. Ah I shoulda looked harder but I didn't look at the pic once I noticed it was green! I did come across a container flat with three 40' containers on it the other day. That's got to have been a massive flat!! Can't test everything you read on eBay!!! Lee Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Revolution Ben Posted March 22, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 22, 2013 Hello Lee In terms of stock for your layout it might be worth having a look around at photos of "Mostyn" the 4mm exhibition layout built by the Barrowmore group, or even contacting them directly. They are running 1970s/80s era North Wales coast trains and did quite a lot of research into formations, liveries etc. Certainly they have at least one container train that I have seen that has a wide variety of accurate containers on it. They may also have some useful info on the consists of parcels trains, engineers trains etc. cheers Ben A. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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