Headlights when switching

[Talltim]

Probably also relevant to the Uk also, but i realised I don't know. When switching and pushing cars, do the crew change the headlight and number board lights every time they change direction when switching?

I was prompted by watching a model vid where this does happen as an automatic function of DCC

[JWB]

What I've observed is that locos often don't have headlights lit while switching: here's an example, which I'm pretty sure is moving forward, since the remote operator is on the front steps:

These are bowl trimmers at West Colton. Note that although DCC will switch headlights, it will also just dim the headlight in reverse, and you can also turn off the headlights entirely in DCC.

I've also certainly heard that engineers don't have time to switch headlight ends while switching. But rules on the main line and rules in yards are, I think, different. A headlight, at least on the main line, is by the fact that it's on an indication that the track is occupied. Helpers and DPUs on the rear usually have headlights lit, if dimmed, in the rear direction.

[JWB]

Here's a pair of bowl trimmers showing both ends of the pair, neither with headlight on:

A quick google search suggests that rules may vary among railroads, but some do allow locomotive headlights to be switched off in yard limits. Going through photos, I've seen locos with the headlight off while switching, but proceeding with headlight on dim when moving out after finishing:

 

 

[Talltim]

Ok, I'm now going to have to ask what a bowl trimmer is! And I have googled

it

[dave1905]

Ok, I'm now going to have to ask what a bowl trimmer is! And I have googled

it

The bowl is the classification protion of a hump yard.  A trimmer is a job that pulls cars out of the bowl and makes up trains.

[Glorious NSE]

Probably also relevant to the Uk also, but i realised I don't know. When switching and pushing cars, do the crew change the headlight and number board lights every time they change direction when switching?

I was prompted by watching a model vid where this does happen as an automatic function of DCC

 

More properly, it's the default function of lights under DCC, you can alter CVs or settings to have all lights on all the time, all off, one end on all the time, dimming when stopped/reversed...whatever.

 

My pair of Harbor Belt SW1500s has the lights on at both outer ends of the set at all times, but set to dim at the back end to give me a clue which end is forward.

[Barry Ten]

My pair of Harbor Belt SW1500s has the lights on at both outer ends of the set at all times, but set to dim at the back end to give me a clue which end is forward.

 

Are those the Athearn ones? I was admiring a pair in a shop last week - one in black/orange, the other orange/black :-) - thought they looked fab.

[dave1905]

Normally on a manned switch engine the lights are left on low on both ends all the time.  Rule 17 in older (pre 1985) rule books govern headlights.  Headlights can be turned off on the end coupled to cars, but switch engines rarely bother with that.

 

Rule 5.9 under the GCOR governs modern switching rules and is very similar.  Headlight on when moving, front and rear on low on switch engines, but can be extinguished on end coupled to cars.

[JWB]

Similar situation at West Colton, a set of BNSF power moving within yard limits, no headlights at either end:

 

[JWB]

UP power at Mead Yard, Wilmington, CA moving but no headlight

Looks like one more thing to pay attention to, either in designing an exhibition layout for effect (think of what you could do with Pepper Avenue, or even this scene here) or operating an existing layout with yard operations.

[CraigZ]

Probably also relevant to the Uk also, but i realised I don't know. When switching and pushing cars, do the crew change the headlight and number board lights every time they change direction when switching?

I was prompted by watching a model vid where this does happen as an automatic function of DCC

At least in the US, the answer is no.  I find the default configuration of DCC decoders to be annoying and unprototypical.  Most of them can be programmed to put the lights on true independent control though, which is my preference.

[bxmoore]

You've pinpointed one of the biggest errors on a lot of model railroads, when, on an otherwise great layout, with excellently-running locomotives, the headlight and rear light flash on and off every time the engine reverses direction. As said above, it's completely unprototypical, and a very easy fix. 

 

Another is when the locomotive bell is used excessively, too loudly, and inappropriately.  Of the locomotive sound, the horn and the bell, the latter is by far the quietest, but it is rarely turned down to the appropriate level on model railroads. 

Also, you don't use a bell in most situations when moving around a yard, or switching - this is also something that is commonly ignored by operators, and can be a complete pain to others in the room, especially when the volume is up full-whack.
 

Brian
 

[Glorious NSE]

Are those the Athearn ones? I was admiring a pair in a shop last week - one in black/orange, the other orange/black :-) - thought they looked fab.

 

Yes, i've a pair of black ones setup to run as a pair. Lovely scheme and a nice reminder of a trip to Chicago back in 2000, before they all got refurbed and painted orange.

 

Here's a quick shot of them working a couple of weekends ago down at Western Union in Plymouth.

 

 

These days I tend to build consists of loco's running with 'simple consisting' - i.e. all on one number, with my stuff not getting to run on a home layout it means you can set up a consist to your liking at home, and just move it between layouts with no consisting or programming to worry about.

 

So for a set of road loco's, by changing CVs on individual loco's you can then make one run backwards to be the rear loco, and switch off the un-needed 'inner' lights. That way the consist works as if it's one loco, on RS Tower that means you won't see any of my loco's returning through scene with no neadlight on the front and one shining on the rear of the second unit because the engineer hasn't changed the lights before departing...

 

For loco's that switch a lot I try and do what i've done with those SW1500s, again, always on dim both ends of the consist, going to bright when moving in one direction.

 

Within a consist that also means you can close couple using short kadee's with no trip pins instead of having to fit long kadee's if it's got a plow...

[JWB]

I'm transitioning to DCC, but still early on the DCC learning curve. The decoders I'm familiar with don't appear to have much beyond a dimming feature, but prototypical headlight operation seems to require several alternatives:

 

1. Headlight out for operation within yard limits or when in the clear on sidings

 

2. Headlight-only operation, either dim or full strength, without ditch lights, in particular situations, including low speed non-yard operation, grade crossings or meeting opposing trains, or rear of DPU

 

3. Full headlight with ditch light operation on main line

 

4. Flashing ditch lights on main line grade crossing approach

 

I'm not up on the very latest production of modern era locos, but in general, I note that even model locos with ditch lights installed, like Kato 9-44 units, AC4400s, or SD9043MACs, don't have the light bars set up to distinguish headlight-only from headlight-with-ditch lights or flashing ditch lights. I haven't had the body off my Atlas Trainman gensets to see if they have the potential for this distinction. By the same token, I don't know of decoders that will handle all these options, but as I say, I'm new to DCC.

 

Does anyone have knowledge of decoders or factory models that can handle all these options?

[CraigZ]

I'm transitioning to DCC, but still early on the DCC learning curve. The decoders I'm familiar with don't appear to have much beyond a dimming feature, but prototypical headlight operation seems to require several alternatives:

 

1. Headlight out for operation within yard limits or when in the clear on sidings

 

2. Headlight-only operation, either dim or full strength, without ditch lights, in particular situations, including low speed non-yard operation, grade crossings or meeting opposing trains, or rear of DPU

 

3. Full headlight with ditch light operation on main line

 

4. Flashing ditch lights on main line grade crossing approach

 

I'm not up on the very latest production of modern era locos, but in general, I note that even model locos with ditch lights installed, like Kato 9-44 units, AC4400s, or SD9043MACs, don't have the light bars set up to distinguish headlight-only from headlight-with-ditch lights or flashing ditch lights. I haven't had the body off my Atlas Trainman gensets to see if they have the potential for this distinction. By the same token, I don't know of decoders that will handle all these options, but as I say, I'm new to DCC.

 

Does anyone have knowledge of decoders or factory models that can handle all these options?

 

I had an Athearn Norfolk Southern SD70 that I fitted with a TCS A6X chip.  I programmed it (easily, I might add, with TCS's clear documentation) to do all four of the things on your list.  I put the ditch lights and headlamps on different functions: 

- Front light on F0

- Rear light on F1

- Ditch lights on F5

- Headlamp dim on F4

 

I've also done the same thing with NCE decoders.

[Glorious NSE]

I'm transitioning to DCC, but still early on the DCC learning curve. The decoders I'm familiar with don't appear to have much beyond a dimming feature, but prototypical headlight operation seems to require several alternatives:

 

1. Headlight out for operation within yard limits or when in the clear on sidings

 

2. Headlight-only operation, either dim or full strength, without ditch lights, in particular situations, including low speed non-yard operation, grade crossings or meeting opposing trains, or rear of DPU

 

3. Full headlight with ditch light operation on main line

 

4. Flashing ditch lights on main line grade crossing approach

 

From my (limited) experience with this there are two elements to the setup.

 

The first element is functions on the decoder. Each bulb/LED (or set of bulbs/LEDs) needs to be on a separate function to work individually. So a modern loco with a headlight, a rear headlight and two ditch lights that must flash independantly needs.

1 function for front headlights

1 function for rear headlights

1 function for left ditchlight

1 function for right ditchlight

 

If you have rear ditchlights that's another 2 functions, if you have a beacon, lit numberboards or whatever then again another function.

 

They allow you to switch one individual bulb/LED on or off.

 

The second element to the setup is then 'function mapping' those individual functions to function numbers, so you can press a button to get the effect, and applying any effect needing (such as ditchlight flashes, gyralight, beacon)

 

 

I'm not up on the very latest production of modern era locos, but in general, I note that even model locos with ditch lights installed, like Kato 9-44 units, AC4400s, or SD9043MACs, don't have the light bars set up to distinguish headlight-only from headlight-with-ditch lights or flashing ditch lights. I haven't had the body off my Atlas Trainman gensets to see if they have the potential for this distinction. By the same token, I don't know of decoders that will handle all these options, but as I say, I'm new to DCC.

 

Does anyone have knowledge of decoders or factory models that can handle all these options?

 

I have so far not come across any modern loco's that have the lighting already set up in such discrete ways. Most appear to either be one LED and light tubes to all light feeds on one end of the loco, or individual bulbs which are wired in parrallel to give the same effect.

[Adrian Wintle]

The instructions for the Digitrax N-Scale decoder for the Kato P42 (DN163K0A) tell you how to modify the P42 to have independent ditch lights and how to set up the programming for them (but the instructions are actually incorrect IIRC...). I've done this with one P42 and it looks good, with the ability to have the ditch lights either on or alternating. I'm not sure if I'm going to do this on my other one, though.

 

See http://www.digitrax.com/static/apps/products/mobile-decoders/dn163k0a/documents/DN163K0A.pdf

 

Adrian

[Glorious NSE]

The instructions for the Digitrax N-Scale decoder for the Kato P42 (DN163K0A) tell you how to modify the P42 to have independent ditch lights and how to set up the programming for them (but the instructions are actually incorrect IIRC...). I've done this with one P42 and it looks good, with the ability to have the ditch lights either on or alternating. I'm not sure if I'm going to do this on my other one, though.

 

See http://www.digitrax.com/static/apps/products/mobile-decoders/dn163k0a/documents/DN163K0A.pdf

 

Adrian

 

If they're going to be running together then only the lead one needs it doing... 

[Adrian Wintle]

If they're going to be running together then only the lead one needs it doing... 

 

I only need one on the front of the Maple Leaf (a grand name for a P42 and 5 Amcans), so the other one gets its own train...