On Tim's workbench - BR Standard 2MT

[Timara]

A new year, a new start! I've decided it was high time I set up a thread for all the locos/rolling stock that I have under way for my long-term project, Menai Bridge. I have got one or two things in my blog on here, but it's easier to find stuff in main threads, so here goes .

 

Having changed my plans from doing Mold Junction (owing to a few factors, but not the obvious ones of size and cost; they had been budgeted for!), the edited title, and indeed content, of this thread reflects that.  Any reference to 6B is now only in passing.

Up until mid-January, I had four 8Fs that had been rewheeled. Only one was complete (48175) and the other three were in varying states of completion. I still needed to remove the lump from the front of the pony truck on 48253 before I could add its new wheelset.  It was hoped that I would have these three finished within the next month or so, all being well.  However, plans changed...  (more of that from April 2013).







Finally, for now, is what will be my solitary ex-works "Five" 45021, from Crewe North. Thanks to a spotting list I gained (privately) from a prominent photographer, I noticed that 45021 was seen around the time I am modelling. The fairly recent book on the Black Fives (part 1) showed it to have been outshopped from a 'heavy general' not two days earlier from Crewe Works. I need to give the wheels some paint and then do some subtle "in service" weathering in various places to retain the relatively spotless exterior finish. It would probably have been back in traffic for about a week in the condition I intend to finish her in.





There will be more to come over the coming weeks and months, so do stay tuned .

Cheers!

Edited February 16, 2014 by Tim

[Philip52LC]

More superb work Tim which I will follow with interest. Being brought up not far from Toton East Midlands in my train spotting days, 8F's amongst others were the staple loco diet and over the years I've become quite fond of them. As I get older I've begun to appreciate more the Stanier freight & mixed traffic designs and the older Fowler and Johnson loco's and its pleasing to see these being available in rtr form. Will have to be careful watching this thread as it might tempt me to get more 8F's and change my modelling direction yet again.

 

Although Jubilee's are my all time favourite loco, I still remember the clanking and wheezing 8F's, Austerities and 9F's not to forget the elderly 2F's. 3F's and 4F's. Halycon days indeed! 

 

Looking forward to more photo's etc.

 

Regards

 

Philip

[Leander]

Tim

 

Very nice. Have you altered the rear of the cab of the Fowler tender fitted 8F no. 48046? I understand from reading the Wild Swan Loco Profile book on the class that a 'strip' was added forming a right angle to the cab side sheet's rear edge (if I'm making myself sufficiently clear) from the bottom edge to approximately level with the bottom of the cab side windows. I assume this was a result of the cab being significantly wider than the tender and was a 1950's H&S addition to help prevent the crew falling into the resultant gap!

 

Pete

[Portchullin Tatty]

Hi Tim,

 

In talking to Tim Shackleton a while back as to what a freshly outshopped loco would be like weathering wise (it had to do with the K4 that appears on Retford running north from a general at Doncaster), he was of the view that a driver/mate would put cinders on the running plate before the engine set off on its first journey as a non slip measure.  He was also of the view that the smokebox would, if not scorch, certainly dull from the heat of the first hour or two's fire.  Thus, he concluded, a freshly painted loco remained freshly painted for no more than an hour and certainly not when it moved off shed/off works!

 

I would comment that I think that gloss is something that does not scale.  Therefore, I would urge you, whatever you do, to dull to a satin at least the paintwork.

 

Your trainset though!

 

Are you going to tell them how many hikers you are planning to have...............??

[Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71]

Nice work Tim...keep it up.

 

ATB

 

Dave

[Timara]

More superb work Tim which I will follow with interest. Being brought up not far from Toton East Midlands in my train spotting days, 8F's amongst others were the staple loco diet and over the years I've become quite fond of them. As I get older I've begun to appreciate more the Stanier freight & mixed traffic designs and the older Fowler and Johnson loco's and its pleasing to see these being available in rtr form. Will have to be careful watching this thread as it might tempt me to get more 8F's and change my modelling direction yet again.

 

Although Jubilee's are my all time favourite loco, I still remember the clanking and wheezing 8F's, Austerities and 9F's not to forget the elderly 2F's. 3F's and 4F's. Halycon days indeed! 

 

Looking forward to more photo's etc.

 

Regards

 

Philip

Hi Philip!

 

Thankyou indeed. I thought it was best to kick things off with the "bread and butter" and there will be more of the same soon. I've got a brace of Black Fives coming up, though they're fairly straight-forward.

 

The next item to feature is the first of my four Jinties (or Humpies, as they were called by Mold Jct men). This has a High Level chassis and has been a joy to build. More on that anon .

 

 

Tim

 

Very nice. Have you altered the rear of the cab of the Fowler tender fitted 8F no. 48046? I understand from reading the Wild Swan Loco Profile book on the class that a 'strip' was added forming a right angle to the cab side sheet's rear edge (if I'm making myself sufficiently clear) from the bottom edge to approximately level with the bottom of the cab side windows. I assume this was a result of the cab being significantly wider than the tender and was a 1950's H&S addition to help prevent the crew falling into the resultant gap!

 

Pete

Hi Pete!

 

Since the pics were taken, I've swapped the cab doors with a couple of my Black Fives where one of the doors had broken off per side. However, on closer inspection of a photograph in an old Model Rail (48624), I can't see anything different to a "normal" 8F cab. I'll have a further look at another book later and see what I can find!

 

 

Hi Tim,

 

In talking to Tim Shackleton a while back as to what a freshly outshopped loco would be like weathering wise (it had to do with the K4 that appears on Retford running north from a general at Doncaster), he was of the view that a driver/mate would put cinders on the running plate before the engine set off on its first journey as a non slip measure.  He was also of the view that the smokebox would, if not scorch, certainly dull from the heat of the first hour or two's fire.  Thus, he concluded, a freshly painted loco remained freshly painted for no more than an hour and certainly not when it moved off shed/off works!

 

I would comment that I think that gloss is something that does not scale.  Therefore, I would urge you, whatever you do, to dull to a satin at least the paintwork.

 

Your trainset though!

Hi Mark!

 

I suppose I ought to have pointed out that the current state of 45021 is only until I make it look more like a rather useful shot of 45422 in "Steam Works". It's still got a reasonable deal of shine on the boiler, but the smokebox is nicely dulled down and the running gear has obviously seen a good deal of service since overhaul. It'll be very interesting seeing how it comes out! Roy Jackson's K1 (in TS's book) is a good benchmark for me to aim at .

 

Are you going to tell them how many hikers you are planning to have...............??

Never mind the hikers, it's the holidaymakers they have to worry about!!

 

Cheers all!

[JohnBateson]

It always surprised me just how many of the bigger engines turned left towards Denbigh. Coming down Kinnerton Bank must have been quite exciting with a load on. I just about saw the end of traffic here when I moved into the area in '68

How much of Mold Junction are you planning? The plan in Page 90 of the Chester to Denbigh Railway would seem ambitious.

Edited January 20, 2013 by JohnBateson

[Timara]

It always surprised me just how many of the bigger engines turned left towards Denbigh. Coming down Kinnerton Bank must have been quite exciting with a load on. I just about saw the end of traffic here when I moved into the area in '68

How much of Mold Junction are you planning? The plan in Page 90 of the Chester to Denbigh Railway would seem ambitious.

Hi John,

 

According to the locomotive diagrams I have for 6B (given to me by the son of the last shedmaster), 8Fs were rostered to work the various freights down to Mold. The trains to and from Hendre lime works being just one example! There is an amusing tale about one such loco that became a "white eight" after having to venture underneath the chute there (they were banned from the yard) after the shunter had expired due to it being rather unreliable!

 

There's a curiosity about the freight workings at Mold Jct. All freight that came from the Chester direction had to head towards Denbigh so that the wagons could then be pulled/set back into the yard. Eastbound trains could leave the yard by normal means though!

 

As to how much of it I shall indeed be modelling, the entire MPD area up to the engine release road will be what I do. The marshalling yard will make a very convenient "scenic break" where it allows the layout to peter out and meld into the fiddleyard to the west. That it is on a curve helps matters somewhat! I shall cover all of this in greater detail when I get round to starting a topic proper on the layout itself.

 

Cheers!

[Barry O]

Tim

 

been looking at my colour books and came across a shot of 45349 which may be of help to you as its an immaculate Black 5 - Ill bring the book along to Doncaster for you to have a look.

 

Barry

PS don't see any evidence of ash or clinker on any footplates of running in engines

[Timara]

Tim

 

been looking at my colour books and came across a shot of 45349 which may be of help to you as its an immaculate Black 5 - Ill bring the book along to Doncaster for you to have a look.

 

Barry

PS don't see any evidence of ash or clinker on any footplates of running in engines

Cheers for that Barry . Will look forward to it! Is it by any chance in "On LNWR Lines" or another similar colour album by any chance?

[Michael Delamar]

looks just the right amount of sheen to me for a "knobbed up" loco

 

45110 Disley 20.4.68 by George of Dufton, on Flickr

[Barry O]

Cheers for that Barry . Will look forward to it! Is it by any chance in "On LNWR Lines" or another similar colour album by any chance?

its a Janes book by Hugh Ballantyne

LM Mainline Steam in Colour by Hugh Ballantyne

Edited January 25, 2013 by Barry O

[Timara]

No shed or marshalling yard would be complete without a shunting loco or three. During summer 1961, Mold Junction had four Fowler 3F 0-6-0Ts, known by the crews as "Humpies". The four allocated at that time were 47410, 47615, 47646 and 47673. It is unsurprising to discover that all of them have differing detail differences, be they subtle or otherwise! I've used the Bachmann body for these and all are to have a chassis from High Level kits.

 

 

The first of these is 47673, which is the only one with plain coupling rods and a different cab roof vent from the usual. Here are a couple of snaps with the body off. The motor is intentionally left out as I'm still sorting out pickup arrangements. I also need to find the worm gear....

 

 

 

...and with the body on. As an aside, two of the four are loco brake only, so therefore do not require the vacuum ejector on the smokebox. I'll detail the removal and filling in of the resultant holes in a subsequent post.

 

 

 

I have to say that this chassis is one of the easiest I've ever built and is certainly less hassle than any of the other 3F chassis on the market. It almost falls together off the etch!

 

Next stop is to fit a decoder and get the pair of miniature relays installed to actuate the couplings automatically.

[Timara]

An 8F goes a stage further towards final completion....  I'm amazed it has taken me almost two years to get it this far, considering I bought the loco some 4-5 years ago!  Here's how it was at that point: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/32453-tims-painting-and-weathering-workbench/page-2&do=findComment&comment=353093

 

It now looks somewhat different, though still needs a few more things doing to it, most notably the tender underframe (steps and suchlike).

 

 

 

I'll update on this one once I've fully finished it, which may be next week if all goes to plan.

[Kempenfelt]

Brave man tackling 4 Jinties all at the same time, I'm still struggling to complete just the one!! (Don't ask how long it's been work in progress! )

 

I'll be interested to see what you do with the bodies! I've not started modification of my Bachmann body yet, however these are the area's i've currently identified for improvement.

 

From the Brassmasters detailing etch

 

Replacement etched steps

Replacement etched coal rails

Etched buffer steps

Etched tank top details

Etched frame extensions

 

All other etches are made surplus due to the High Level chassis

 

Replacement chimney (although I'm not convinced on the shape of the BM casting, I'd consider a turned brass one if there is a suitable turning out there)

Cast steam injectors

Cast vac pipes

 

Other modifications

 

Probably the biggest issue to my eyes is the gap between the boiler and dome, this in my eyes could do with filling. However you need to be careful not to lose the flange of the dome.

Ideally I'll replace the handrails too! The handrails along the boiler sit too far away from the cladding as do those on the front tanks.

The moulded lubricator detail looks too small to me, where as the vacuum ejector looks too big. These will have to be replaced with scratchbuilt items.

Representation of a slacker pipe and tablet catcher (these are dependent on your chosen prototype of course)

 

I'm not quite convinced yet on this final item, but I'd quite like to remove the moulded glazing bars and replace these with wire. This would of course mean that the glazing would need to be replaced too.

 

If you can think of anything else then please let me know, wouldn't want to miss something glaringly obvious once I've actually finished it (although this could be some time yet!!! )

 

Good luck with the build's Tim, look forward to the rest of the build, if only to try and motivate me to do a bit more on mine!!

 

By the way, don't overlook the Wild Swan book, this is invaluable to anyone modelling a Jinty/3f no matter what scale!

 

 

Cheers

 

Paul

Edited February 22, 2013 by Kempenfelt

[Timara]

Hi Paul!

Brave man tackling 4 Jinties all at the same time, I'm still struggling to complete just the one!! (Don't ask how long it's been work in progress! )

You know me, always going in at the deep end when it suits.... . This one (47673) is a test bed to see whether I may or may not need to have a compensated chassis on mine or not. If it turns out I do need it, then I'll relegate this one to shed pilot!

 

I'll be interested to see what you do with the bodies! I've not started modification of my Bachmann body yet, however these are the area's i've currently identified for improvement.

 

From the Brassmasters detailing etch

 

Replacement etched steps

Replacement etched coal rails

Etched buffer steps

Etched tank top details

Etched frame extensions

 

All other etches are made surplus due to the High Level chassis

 

Replacement chimney (although I'm not convinced on the shape of the BM casting, I'd consider a turned brass one if there is a suitable turning out there)

Cast steam injectors

Cast vac pipes

Like yourself, I'm not entirely convinced by it and I'm not completely sure about the Gibson casting. I might need to have another inspection of one to refresh my memory! I'd certainly like to fit replacement steps and coal rails, but that's about as far as I'd be prepared to take my four, unless I deemed it worth going for!

 

Out of interest, how much of the BM etch is left over after all that?

Other modifications

 

Probably the biggest issue to my eyes is the gap between the boiler and dome, this in my eyes could do with filling. However you need to be careful not to lose the flange of the dome.

Ideally I'll replace the handrails too! The handrails along the boiler sit too far away from the cladding as do those on the front tanks.

The moulded lubricator detail looks too small to me, where as the vacuum ejector looks too big. These will have to be replaced with scratchbuilt items.

Representation of a slacker pipe and tablet catcher (these are dependent on your chosen prototype of course)

I've never been a fan of the very fragile cast mazac handrail knobs Bachmann use. I'm seriously considering replacing those on mine as there isn't much to do in that area and it would certainly improve the overall look. As to the dome, I may well leave be on those that haven't got a glaring gap. Some seem to fit better than others, or so it seems!

 

Only two of mine have train brakes, so I might have a further think about the pair that need vacuum ejectors fitted. As I'll be replacing the handrails, it's something I'll consider!

 

I'm not quite convinced yet on this final item, but I'd quite like to remove the moulded glazing bars and replace these with wire. This would of course mean that the glazing would need to be replaced too.

That's a thought.... It would give a bit more of a 3D look to it wouldn't it?! I suppose it's somewhat easier if one has one or two locos to do, but on a small fleet of four, it becomes a bit more of a thing... (as for things like that on Black Fives, oh dear, just don't go there right now!).

 

If you can think of anything else then please let me know, wouldn't want to miss something glaringly obvious once I've actually finished it (although this could be some time yet!!! )

 

Good luck with the build's Tim, look forward to the rest of the build, if only to try and motivate me to do a bit more on mine!!

 

By the way, don't overlook the Wild Swan book, this is invaluable to anyone modelling a Jinty/3f no matter what scale!

 

 

Cheers

 

Paul

If I can think of anything else, you'll be one of the first to know! I was rather unsurprised to find that none of mine were the same in all regards, so it does make for a varied little fleet. I'll have a closer look at that book too!

 

Cheers,

[Timara]

An overdue update...  I've been busy sorting out a change of plan from my original intentions, which has been going round and round in my head for a couple of years now, but I had hoped it would "go away".  You'll notice the title (and subtitle) of this thread has changed, together with my revised plan to model somewhere I've long had an interest in, but never really gave it any further thought.  However, the opportunity to have a much more streamlined fleet with a lot more diversity wasn't to be ignored.  Without further ado, I can now "announce" (for want of a better word) that the replacement project is Menai Bridge.  I'll sort out a layout topic in the fullness of time, so this will stay as the workbench side of things for a while yet.

 

One thing that I'm now able to have a few of are DMUs.  I've started with one of Bachmann's most recent models; the Derby "lightweight".

 

The first style of Derby "Lightweight" was rather common in north Wales, with a good number based at Llandudno Junction; their former shed only being demolished comparatively recently.  Bachmann's superb model rather made my change of location for me.  There will be more than just this first example and I may have a 'power twin' as well.  Further research on the DMU workings is ongoing, but I'm almost there.

 

 

It should be possible to tell the difference between the paintwork on the two cars above here.  The DMBS has had treatment with T-Cut to lose the rather matte finish that they have straight from the box.  It also helps to remove the numbers prior to suitable replacements, in this instance, those from DC Kits (produced by Modelmaster), but hopefully Charlie can elaborate on that if he sees this!  I'll do a new photo to show those applied later on.  A cotton bud and just enough polishing to have the desired effect on the sides without removing any decoration.  The effect is rather worth it, though will show better in natural light.  Another job for when I've finished this one.

 

T-Cut also removes the printed destination blinds from the inside of the windscreens without any damage occurring.  A cocktail stick and a cotton bud work wonders here.  I've used the same method for my Cravens DMU for St Aidans.

 

 

I'm yet to decide on a suitable inter-car coupling method, partly as I want to try and have a single decoder for the whole unit and have more pickups thrown into the bargain.  As for outer couplings, there is a possibility that I need a 4 car set for a pair of workings to and from Caernarvon (note correct 1960s spelling), but this one will have cosmetic screw links both ends as it is destined to be allocated to Bangor/Amlwch workings.

 

As an aside, the jinty in an earlier posting has now been given its proper identity, that of 47511 from Bangor (it no longer being a Mold Jct loco).  It'll need new (fluted) coupling rods first though....!

 

Cheers,

[Jason T]

Looking lovely Tim. how did you manage to avoid removing the lining, careful rubbing with cotton buds?

[Timara]

Looking lovely Tim. how did you manage to avoid removing the lining, careful rubbing with cotton buds?

 

Thanks Jason .  My "secret" (which it isn't) is practice, experience (when things went tits up!) and a single measure of a decent malt!  Best done later in the day

 

I'll look forward to seeing how your "lightweight" turns out, should you wish to give it a blast with some T Cut

[Portchullin Tatty]

Without further ado, I can now "announce" (for want of a better word) that the replacement project is Menai Bridge. 

 

 

So how many Mold Black 5s are now redundant.........................???

[Timara]

So how many Mold Black 5s are now redundant.........................???

 

Just nine .  That includes those from other sheds that either terminated short or turned off at Llandudno.  Have to say, there's that wonderful feeling of freshness of a new project

[great northern]

That "feeling of freshness" is very nice Tim, but even better when you also know that you are embarking on something which is achievable rather than so complex as to be off putting. I'm sure you have made the correct decision, and all the best with the project.

[James]

What happened to the Mold Junction project? You've been talking about that for years!

[Andy Y]

What happened to the Mold Junction project?

 

 

Tim did explain.

I've been busy sorting out a change of plan from my original intentions, which has been going round and round in my head for a couple of years now, but I had hoped it would "go away".  You'll notice the title (and subtitle) of this thread has changed, together with my revised plan to model somewhere I've long had an interest in, but never really gave it any further thought.  However, the opportunity to have a much more streamlined fleet with a lot more diversity wasn't to be ignored.

Any of us can , and do, decide to change plans.

[James]

Andy, of course people can change their mind. I do constantly.

 

I've known Tim for a long time and for most of that time Mold has been discussed; just curious beyond the change of, rather than an additional project. That was all.