New Mk1 coach

[NickL2008]

For me this coach is good, it is cheaper than Bachmanns mk1, which is we can all agree a better model/starting point, this coach would be good enough for those adding to a trainset or looking to replace the coaches. If this coach has plastic wheels, then if you don't like them, why not just replace them? no doubt Hornby have fitted these with plastic wheels to keep the cost of the overall product down

 

NL

[Ian Hargrave]

Having initially been luke warm to these coaches, I'll certainly have a look. If they are compatible with Bachmann in colouring I may buy one or two. I like the Bachmann coaches but they do seem prone to derailing on my undulating trackwork, annoyingly its always the second coach in the rake even if I switch them about! Also Bachann coaches are very heavy. Substituting a few Hornby ones might lighten the load. will keep an eye out!

You have highlighted a point here. The Bachmann versions are heavy and a challenge too far for some r-t-r locos.One other point is the vexed question of compatibility of coupling heights.The Bachmann 1 doesn't for instance run well with Hornby Gresley/Stanier.Mix and match with Mark 1's may not work for this very reason.We shall see....

I know that 'Lochnagar' (Alex) has removed the weights from some of his Bachmann1's with positive results.

[davidw]

You have highlighted a point here. The Bachmann versions are heavy and a challenge too far for some r-t-r locos.One other point is the vexed question of compatibility of coupling heights.The Bachmann 1 doesn't for instance run well with Hornby Gresley/Stanier.Mix and match with Mark 1's may not work for this very reason.We shall see....

I know that 'Lochnagar' (Alex) has removed the weights from some of his Bachmann1's with positive results.

 

As a general rule I remove the weights from the Bachmann mk1's. I also slacken the screw on bogies to give more freedom on undulating track. Doing so I get the most skittish of locos' to shift scale length trains  8,9,10 coaches +;  though I've  avoided gradients on the layout.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

... If they are compatible with Bachmann in colouring I may buy one or two. I like the Bachmann coaches but they do seem prone to derailing on my undulating trackwork, annoyingly its always the second coach in the rake even if I switch them about! Also Bachmann coaches are very heavy. Substituting a few Hornby ones might lighten the load...

 Were it not that I have already filled my boots with the Bachmann mk1s whenever they have been on offer over the past decade, these look prospectively worth purchasing. Slight colour mismatches as others have observed are positively a boon, reflecting the reality in service. Having to scrape off yet more roof ribs would be a bind, glad that Bachmann have finally seen the light and made their newer introductions flush roofed as the prototype design intent. (BR were very proud of their butt-welding jig technique to form a near seamless steel roof with minimal additional post-weld finishing ahead of painting; good write up in 'The Engineer' and doubtless other journals.)

 

We won't know until some cheerful volunteer purchases a dozen or more and runs them as a formation, what the running qualities are like once the train length is up to main line proportions. At present - and this is my opinion formed from experience to date- there are no RTR OO coaches from Bachmann or Hornby that can be used out of the box completely trouble free in this way; and the more so if taking advantage of the close coupling mechanisms to get the gangway faceplates in contact on straight track. Running to polish up the bearings until they are truly free-rolling, careful lubrication of all moving parts and gangway faceplates, small adjustments to bogie and coupler mountings to ensure sufficient freedom of movement, retracting sprung buffers, etc.

 

The balance to be struck on weight is as ever between what is required to deliver the trackholding and minimising the drag. In this respect the Bach mk1s strike me as about right, for full size trains. If operating short trains or over very large radius curves, doubtless the weight can be reduced to whatever the owner's application requires. I like them heavy, the couple of half turns of wheelslip from a steam loco getting a closed up set of a dozen on the move in one go looks great. This also means they don't derail should the DCC trip out while moving at full speed: the train keeps moving, sliding the loco along some distance (can be several metres on a downgrade, no wheel flats yet). Here, consistency of weight among all vehicles is a factor, as such I might by experiment increase the weight of lighter coaches if required.

 

Interestingly the Bachmann sleeper, which I opened up to look at the revised swinging coupler pocket arrangement, proved to have two steel strip weights overlaid, so the user has three weight settings available as supplied. What really amused me was that while the weights are slightly off centre, a rectangular punching one end compensates so that the coach balances at mid point.

[coachmann]

Bachmann produces coaches with wire water pipes up the ends and onto the roof. Some are discounted by the boxshifters and are a bargain. Then along comes Mk.I's with moulded plastic pipes up the ends and onto the roof (yuck!) and plastic wheels and folk are as chuffed as little mintballs.

 

But put moulded handrails on a loco and.......................................................!

[The Stationmaster]

Bachmann produces coaches with wire water pipes up the ends and onto the roof. Some are discounted by the boxshifters and are a bargain. Then along comes Mk.I's with moulded plastic pipes up the ends and onto the roof (yuck!) and plastic wheels and folk are as chuffed as little mintballs.

 

But put moulded handrails on a loco and.......................................................!

Standard syndrome Larry - 'we' want cheap. cheap, cheap but we also want the best (like metal wheels), but still cheap.  If something is built down to a price you are buying the consequences of that decision - whatever they are.  And as you instanced detail has been compromised on these Mk1s compared with the Bachmann version but they're not bad value at what folk would be paying for them, if they accept the detail shortcomings.

 

As for me - I would sooner pay the extra for what you (should) get for the extra money, now where's your internet ad?  (alas nothing suitable for me at present).

[DaveF]

Thinking about production cost (and selling price) in another context over the years car manufacturers have often deleted small items from cars which must only cost £1 or so to produce.  e.g. Citroen C3s used to come with a small plastic clip at the side of the windscreen to hold a parking ticket from a normal machine.

 

After a couple of years this was deleted.

 

It may be only be about £1 per car, but think of the cost multiplied by the number of cars sold.....

 

Doubtless Hornby will do similar calculations when deciding which wheels to fit and still make a reasonable return on their capital at their wholesale price .

 

David

 

Edited to correct spelling.

[the penguin of doom]

To be honest, the cursory look I paid overlooked the plastic pipes which, (in my case), would mean I stick with the Bachmann ones.

 

My point above though was that this is a budget coach and for a couple of quid more, you can get a set of metal wheels for it.

 

Simples.

 

Cheers.

 

Sean.

[Stanley Melrose]

Back in the 1960s when I was a Product Planner at Ford's R&D Centre at Dunton, Essex, every part of every product was costed to 3 places of decimals of 1 cent each month so I can assure you that items costing £1 would be considered a luxury even now when today's £ is probably the equivalent of 5p (or less) then.

 

Stan

 

Thinking about production cost (and selling price) in another context over the years car manufacturers have often deleted small items from cars which must only cost £1 or so to produce.  e.g. Citroen C3s used to come with a small plastic clip at the side of the windscreen to hold a parking ticket from a normal machine.

 

After a couple of years this was deleted.

 

It may be only be about £1 per car, but think of the cost multiplied by the number of cars sold.....

 

Doubtless Hornby will do similar calculations when deciding which wheels to fit and still make a reasonable return on their capital at their wholesale price .

 

David

 

Edited to correct spelling.

[Removed a/c]

For me this coach is good, it is cheaper than Bachmanns mk1, which is we can all agree a better model/starting point, this coach would be good enough for those adding to a trainset or looking to replace the coaches. If this coach has plastic wheels, then if you don't like them, why not just replace them? no doubt Hornby have fitted these with plastic wheels to keep the cost of the overall product down

 

NL

My point was that it would only cost the CONSUMER £2 to re-wheel. Hornby surely could have done it without adding much/nothing to the final cost. 

[Removed a/c]

Also remember that initially the price was to be higher and I bet plastic wheels were part of that design too. 

[the penguin of doom]

To be honest, the cursory look I paid overlooked the plastic pipes which, (in my case), would mean I stick with the Bachmann ones.

My point above though was that this is a budget coach and for a couple of quid more, you can get a set of metal wheels for it.

Simples.

Cheers.

Sean.

Hmmmn.

 

I've had my first ever "disagree" rating. I've edited the post to hopefully make it more clear what I meant.

 

Cheers.

 

Sean.

[Dunsignalling]

Standard syndrome Larry - 'we' want cheap. cheap, cheap but we also want the best (like metal wheels), but still cheap. If something is built down to a price you are buying the consequences of that decision - whatever they are. And as you instanced detail has been compromised on these Mk1s compared with the Bachmann version but they're not bad value at what folk would be paying for them, if they accept the detail shortcomings.

 

As for me - I would sooner pay the extra for what you (should) get for the extra money, now where's your internet ad? (alas nothing suitable for me at present).

Purely academic for many of us.

 

I doubt I am alone in having built up a fleet of all the Mk.1 passenger stock I am ever likely to want/need in blue boxes ages ago.

 

John

[Removed a/c]

Hmmmn.

 

I've had my first ever "disagree" rating. I've edited the post to hopefully make it more clear what I meant.

 

Cheers.

 

Sean.

Don't feel bad Sean, he disagreed with me too. 

[coachmann]

Hmmmn.

 

I've had my first ever "disagree" rating. ....................

 

Could have been worse....He could have played old harry with you...  

[Downendian]

And not justified either Sean, you are absolutely right.

This is not what the rating system was meant to be used for surely?

Neil

[Removed a/c]

My point was that it would only cost the CONSUMER £2 to re-wheel. Hornby surely could have done it without adding much/nothing to the final cost. 

Not sure what was disagreed with in my post? 

 

It would cost the consumer £2 to re-wheel and it would add little to nothing cost wise for Hornby to do it. They would still be making a decent profit, trust me. 

[The Stationmaster]

Not sure what was disagreed with in my post? 

 

It would cost the consumer £2 to re-wheel and it would add little to nothing cost wise for Hornby to do it. They would still be making a decent profit, trust me. 

Surely for Hornby it all depends on the difference in price between x000 metal wheel sets and x1000 plastic wheelsets and if the plastic ones are only 1p cheaper that still ads up to several 3s, $s or Renmimbi etc in the manner explained by Stanley Melrose above.  When you're dealing with large quantites even a few pence per item soon add up.  

 

And let's face - what's a couple of quid to add metal wheels to a cheap coach, it still won't be up to Bachmann Mk 1 standard but it will still cost less if that's what folk are worried about.

[brushman47544]

I have/had high hopes for these new Hornby Mk1s seeing as Bachmann has been incapable so far of producing its versions in what I consider an acceptable version of BR(S) green, when Hornby's is pretty much spot on on its Maunsells at least.

[frobisher]

I have/had high hopes for these new Hornby Mk1s seeing as Bachmann has been incapable so far of producing its versions in what I consider an acceptable version of BR(S) green, when Hornby's is pretty much spot on on its Maunsells at least.

You know what? I think I've just realised the trick that Hornby has missed with these. Perhaps they should have been supplied um-numbered, or at least later batches could be. Incorporate a sheet of transfers for example vehicles and job done. Barring producing sets of transfers, it should actually bring the costs down a bit as well.

[jonathan452]

Purely academic for many of us.

 

I doubt I am alone in having built up a fleet of all the Mk.1 passenger stock I am ever likely to want/need in blue boxes ages ago.

 

John

DITTO

 

With the exception of that all elusive late build (diagram 73) FO.

[BR(S)]

Chocolate and cream version now in the shops: http://www.kernowmodelrailcentre.com/product/39573/R4353_Hornby_Railroad_BR_Mk1_Corridor_Composite_Coach_W15162_

[FelixM]

Personally I hope that crimson & cream Eastern region ones are to follow the maroon ones. They featured regularly in Hornby's trainsets in the past (old tooling though) but Bachmann seems to fully neglect them.

 

Felix

[Multiple identity account 2]

Personally I hope that crimson & cream Eastern region ones are to follow the maroon ones. They featured regularly in Hornby's trainsets in the past (old tooling though) but Bachmann seems to fully neglect them.

 

Felix

And some SR green ones....

 

Though I would personally feel that Hornby should use them in their sets and train packs more often. Another thing Hornby can do is just supply them with metal wheels (bear in mind re-wheeling isn't a pain for me - it's a 2 min job) and can actually sell them as mid-range models, they are not bad at all especially at their MRP also.

 

Cheers.

[davidw]

Having now seen one it's a decent effort and significantly better that the old 1960's origin coach.

 

RRP we know under cut Bachmann. NEM pockets are attached to the bogie. Wheels plastic. Molded representation of pipes. ie no real surprises.

 

I'd get more excited if a BSO, FO and RB had been offered that match Bachmann colours