trisonic Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 Came across this thing in a book on Jersey City yesterday - I just couldn't leave it alone, take a look: http://prr.railfan.net/RubberTiredSwitchers.html Take a moment to look down the page it is worth it - note the Ship type steering wheel......... Best, Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
highpeak Posted January 6, 2013 Share Posted January 6, 2013 Very interesting. That first link has some fascinating detail on the construction of the first tractor. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
69843 Posted January 6, 2013 Share Posted January 6, 2013 That certainly is a unique design. Now, how to model it.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titan Posted January 6, 2013 Share Posted January 6, 2013 Faller principle? lay a wire between the rails? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWB Posted January 6, 2013 Share Posted January 6, 2013 The Faller issue would be that the thing would just go round and round on a particular route and wouldn't be controllable for steering, independent start, stop, reverse, etc., which would all be needed for actual model service. I'd be looking at RC model cars to see if anything could be adapted. For a time, a German company made R/C conversions for HO size 18 wheelers, but they're no longer available as far as I know. Another solution, a variation of what one guy published in the 1970s, would be to have a controller tethered by wire to the model vehicle, which would have the advantage of not requiring the R/C receiver or the battery in the vehicle. But it's also worth pointing out that many industries now use trucks, tractors, and front-end loaders with couplers welded on them for somewhat similar use. A first-hack attempt might involve just screwing a Kadee box at the right height to a Radio Shack R/C car or truck, never mind the scale, and see how it worked. This could certainly reduce the necessary minimum size of a micro layout, though you'd still need room to maneuver and to switch rail-bound freight cars. But it might make a portable layout easier to take outside. Is anyone familiar with these? http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=17598926 It could potentially be a start, since it's a small vehicle for 1:64. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortliner Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 If they are anything like the ones sold here a couple of years ago (RadioShack are no longer in UK) They would need some severe re-gearing - they tend to move like goosed jack-rabbits! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
edcayton Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 Fascinating. Looking at the first photo it looks to me as though they had 4 wheel steering? The text states that the rubber tyres (the earlier solid ones!) had grooves to follow the rails. I think that thiis could be replicated in model form. Ed Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
69843 Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 Think I may have figured out how to model this one...Scratchbuild the body (obviously...). Mount 2xRC steering mechanisms onto the frames/chassis at either end, electronically linked to operate as one steering unit. Attach one central motor linked to the axles via worm gears. Attach Faller-esque magnet on both steering axles (to allow controlled steering whilst in a yard using a wire between tracks). Hook up to wagons, and enjoy! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trisonic Posted January 7, 2013 Author Share Posted January 7, 2013 Plus plenty of room in the body for the motor - just like the real thing.... Best, Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonB Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 The spoked wheels appear to be handed to suit the side of the unit, the spokes are not radial, but (almost) tangential to the hub. Not sure if this is to strengthen the wheel or if it indicates a preferred direction of (loaded) travel. Or perhaps to limit the use of rogue replacements? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trisonic Posted January 7, 2013 Author Share Posted January 7, 2013 Seems to be based on an old Leonardo da Vinci wheel design....where i first came across a similar design feature anyway. Best, Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PhilJ W Posted January 7, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 7, 2013 The spoked wheels appear to be handed to suit the side of the unit, the spokes are not radial, but (almost) tangential to the hub. Not sure if this is to strengthen the wheel or if it indicates a preferred direction of (loaded) travel. Or perhaps to limit the use of rogue replacements? I've seen the same sort of wheels on pictures of farm tractors before the advent of pneumatic tyres, they might be a form of springing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
k-59 Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 For a static model there is a very neat N-scale 3d print. http://www.shapeways.com/model/517368/n-scale-1-160-prr-electric-switcher.html?li=productBox-search Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Grovenor Posted January 7, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 7, 2013 The text states that the rubber tyres (the earlier solid ones!) had grooves to follow the rails. I think that thiis could be replicated in model form. Except that is clearly a bit of bullshitting, how could those grooves follow the rail in street track? And note that the vehicles width is 6ft between the insides of the wheels which are 1ft wide so those grooves are 7ft apart, and I don't think IKB built the track. Keith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
highpeak Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 The document linked to at http://http://prr.railfan.net/documents/Buckwalter_SAE_Transactions.html has some information relevant to the questions about the spokes and the tires. The tires were actually sections of rubber vulcanised to steel plates which were then secured to the wheel. The apparent groove is not a groove cut into the tire: "A tire was therefore designed embodying the use of blocks 6” x 14” in size, arranged 24 to a wheel in two rows of 12 each" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave1905 Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 The spoked wheels appear to be handed to suit the side of the unit, the spokes are not radial, but (almost) tangential to the hub. Not sure if this is to strengthen the wheel or if it indicates a preferred direction of (loaded) travel. Or perhaps to limit the use of rogue replacements? I would think the spoke arrangement would allow the spokes to add some "spring" to the suspension. If the spokes are offset a force along the spoke would tend to flex the spoke. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortliner Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 Is it possible that the curve of the spoke forces the rim out against the tyre inner rim, giving a greater grip on the inside of the tyre and preventing slippage when the tractive force is applied to move the wagons? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Wintle Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 For a static model there is a very neat N-scale 3d print. http://www.shapeways.com/model/517368/n-scale-1-160-prr-electric-switcher.html?li=productBox-search You are a bad man for pointing that out... Must resist the call of more PRR motive power. Adrian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewartingram Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 The gauge of the wheels would not matter, if say the RH tyre groove located on a rail, then the LH tyre would just run along the road. Would it also not be true that the area between the rails, and possiblly just outside, wouldn't be 'made up' (tarmac) but a loose fill or wooden decking, thus allowing the railhead to be proud of the surface? Don't forget that in the UK, tramways were responsible for this section of the roadway, so would something similar happen in the US, particularly if we are talking 'off-street' in dock areas etc. Stewart Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWB Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 But what did they do with the groove when it came to a switch? And remember that the grooved wheels were eventually replaced with ungrooved tractor-style wheels, and the whole thing was replaced later with what seems to have been a Trackmobile type thing without the flanged wheels. It's still by no means unusual to have trucks, front-end loaders, etc with couplers welded on but no grooved wheels doing very similar work at industries. Just bump over the ties at 3 mph. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Harrap Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 I think they had something like this at Teignmouth (UK). Must find picture, Brian. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trisonic Posted January 10, 2013 Author Share Posted January 10, 2013 Brian, I'm hoping you will build one for "Quai" the dual hoods look vaguely Renault-like..... Best, Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Harrap Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 Brian, I'm hoping you will build one for "Quai" the dual hoods look vaguely Renault-like..... Best, Pete. Might just do that, my campervan's a Renault, Brian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Grovenor Posted January 18, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 18, 2013 The gauge of the wheels would not matter, if say the RH tyre groove located on a rail, then the LH tyre would just run along the road. etc. The so called groove is much narrower than the rail head, there are links in this topic to a lot of pictures etc. Those pictures show the rails flush with the roadway and do not show the wheels sitting with the groove on the rail. Its clear that the tractor does not use any form of guidance from the rails, the driver has to steer it. Regards Keith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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