Modelling a traditional parcels train

[TheSignalEngineer]

I think you scrambled a digit there SE - 56286 according to my Combined Volume

Renumbered under TOPS

[The Stationmaster]

Renumbered under TOPS

 

Ah - there's informative.  Thanks.

[Clive Mortimore]

The DMU appears to be missing an engine, on way to works perhaps?

Or it is a class 121 Driving Trailer Second.

[TheSignalEngineer]

Or it is a class 121 Driving Trailer Second.

54286 was an unpowered Driving Trailer Second for use with a Class 121 single car.

The photo on Flickr gives the vehicle number.

[Clive Mortimore]

The photo on Flickr gives the vehicle number.

Me read the caption :nono:

[leopardml2341]

Me read the caption :nono:

Welcome to a not very exclusive club.

[45125]

DMU cars in parcels trains were always unpowered trailer cars, that's because the motor cars could propel themselves to the works. For moving unpowered trailer cars parcels trains would have been the most handy thing.

 

Not quite true. Many power cars were moved in parcels trains to/from works, depending which works it went to and what was done to the engines and gearboxes (if anything) . The depot i worked at only sets that were done at Swindon came back under their own power apart from some vehicles that were sent loose. If from Doncaster they always came back on a parcels service and did not reenter traffic until give a 7X exam.

[The Johnster]

Single unit bubble cars were used in South Wales in the 60s, on the short-lived Cadoxton-Penarth shuttle which connected with the Penarth- aRhymney service at Penarth but both lines were cut from each other and buffer stops provided, and on the Bridgend-Cymmer Afan service which connected to a replacement bus over the mountain road to Treorchy, which replaced the Treherbert-Bridgend through trains after the partial blockage of Bleanrhondda Tunnel.  I do not recall the driving trailer seconds being used with them, and associate this practice with the Birmingham area.

 

The photo looks to be from the 1970s when both the above services had ceased, and the only single unit bubble car was the route learner.

[TheSignalEngineer]

The Flickr description gives the date as 26 /10/1983

[phil_sutters]

Thanks chaps.

 

I'd still like to see photos of parcels vans "off company" before 1948 to totally convince me.

 

This is partly because I have a feeling that the railways own parcel services were in competition with one another between major towns. And, partly because the post office operates on a "hub and spoke" basis, which does involve unloading and re-sorting at the hubs, so that if each spoke was contracted to one railway company, no need for inter-running of vans.

 

The exceptions like the tobacco (wasn't there a dock at/near Neyland, implying export to Eire or the US?) and Palethorpe's sausages I do understand.

 

Kevin

I have been looking for a mention of Palethorpe's Sausages as I have just come across this shot among Dad's negatives. I can see why he didn't have it printed, as the quality is pretty poor, but seeing a PS van in his photos is an unique occurrence! Without treking through his spotting logs I don't know where or when this shot was taken. The location doesn't seem like any I have seen before, among his photos.

Edited January 31, 2017 by phil_sutters

[phil_sutters]

I can only find two short parcel trains among Dad's photos - but I suppose that they might suit a small layout - the third could be a longer train or it may not even be a parcels train - just a couple of vans at the front of another type of train - it's a bit of a  grotty shot anyway!

 

[gwrrob]

I can only find two short parcel trains among Dad's photos - but I suppose that they might suit a small layout - the third could be a longer train or it may not even be a parcels train - just a couple of vans at the front of another type of train - it's a bit of a  grotty shot anyway!

GWR 5600 class 0-6-2T 1959 poss 6636.jpg

GWR 060PT 1367 Weymouth 2 7 1960.jpg

BR class 50 423 later 50023.jpg

 

I love short parcels trains, thanks Phil.

[TheSignalEngineer]

I have been looking for a mention of Palethorpe's Sausages as I have just come across this shot among Dad's negatives. I can see why he didn't have it printed, as the quality is pretty poor, but seeing a PS van in his photos is an unique occurrence! Without treking through his spotting logs I don't know where or when this shot was taken. The location doesn't seem like any I have seen before, among his photos.

BR 7928 Wolf Hall & Palethrope's Sausages van.jpg

That would have been one of the two vans on the Cardiff circuit.

Taking 1962 for example, the full van left Dudley at 4.16pm in the afternoon attached to the 3.57pm Wolverhampton - Worcester train. There it was attached to the 7.08pm parcels to Cardiff.

The second empty van left Cardiff on the 9.35pm Crewe parcels. It was detached at Shrewsbury and worked to Wolverhampton LL on the 8.42am Shrewsbury - Paddington parcels. It then reached Dudley as tail traffic on the 1.25pm Wolverhampton LL - Hartlebury parcels, normally a Class 128 DPU.

I would think this was a case of the Hall substituting for the DPU. I saw several instances of this type in the West Midlands, including one of 4555 in Great Western livery posted on the first page of the topic  http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/66383-modelling-a-traditional-parcels-train/page-1&do=findComment&comment=900221

Edited January 31, 2017 by TheSignalEngineer

[TheSignalEngineer]

I've found another reference to the working of the Palethorpes Van to Cardiff. In the Winter 1962/3 local carriage workings book the loaded van is shown to be on the 3.20pm Wolverhampton - Stourbridge parcels, attached  Dudley, leaving at 3.47pm. The only other parcels vehicle shown between Dudley and Stourbridge was BG number 28 or 161, although some days it was also used for balancing empty carriage workings.

[TheSignalEngineer]

I can only find two short parcel trains among Dad's photos - but I suppose that they might suit a small layout - the third could be a longer train or it may not even be a parcels train - just a couple of vans at the front of another type of train - it's a bit of a  grotty shot anyway!

GWR 5600 class 0-6-2T 1959 poss 6636.jpg

 

I've just noticed that this is at the same place as the Hall with the Palethorpes Van. It is the same working with the Palethorpes Van in the middle this time.

 

Are this and the photo of the Hall be somewhere in the Dudley - Stourbridge area? I can't think of a location to match at the moment

Edited February 1, 2017 by TheSignalEngineer

[Oldddudders]

the third could be a longer train or it may not even be a parcels train - just a couple of vans at the front of another type of train - it's a bit of a  grotty shot anyway!

 

The Class 3 headcode suggests it is indeed a parcels service. Possibly at Carlisle, which was a regular stamping ground for these locos pre-TOPS.

[The Stationmaster]

The Class 3 headcode suggests it is indeed a parcels service. Possibly at Carlisle, which was a regular stamping ground for these locos pre-TOPS.

 

It's definitely Carlisle. 

[TheSignalEngineer]

3A65 was the afternoon Parcels from Carlisle to Euston, departing about 16.10 IIRC

[phil_sutters]

I've just noticed that this is at the same place as the Hall with the Palethorpes Van. It is the same working with the Palethorpes Van in the middle this time.

 

Are this and the photo of the Hall be somewhere in the Dudley - Stourbridge area? I can't think of a location to match at the moment

Could the location be just west of Wellington, where the line crosses Wrockwardine Road? The only log record I have found with Wolf Hall away from Worcester Shrub Hill shed, is one on 20.4.1960 at Wellington, on an up goods. Having looked on Google Earth the bridge at that point looks similar and I can't see another under bridge in the Wellington area.

However I haven't come across any reference to a class 56 on that same trip and I haven't found any other occasion when Dad was at Wellington - yet.

Later - another alternative would be Malvern Link on 24.4.1958 on a down parcels. Church Road goes under the line on a similar bridge and as Dad's mother, sister and brother-in-law lived in Malvern, he could have seen the 56 class on another occasion. It is relatively easy skimming down the 'name' column but the number column is a bit of a slog.

Edited February 1, 2017 by phil_sutters

[TheSignalEngineer]

It's not Wrockwardine Road. I think Malvern link is the answer, on the Great Malvern side of the station.

It looks as if the 56xx is taken from the bridge at the bottom of Moorlands Road. The Worcester Road bridge is in the distance and I can see what looks like the big water tank which used to be there. Just above the telegraph pole on the left is the tower of the old school which I believe was originally built as a railway hotel. it was demolished some years ago. It is possible to walk down the side of the line from Moorlands Road to the bridge where the Hall was taken. The houses to the right are on Pickersleigh Road.

 

I will do a bit more investigation on my notes about Palethorpes traffic to see if I can find other workings to Cardiff

Edited February 1, 2017 by TheSignalEngineer

[TheSignalEngineer]

Going back a few years to 1957 I have found the make up of the 6.55pm parcels from Worcester to Cardiff. This had a van from Brierley Hill to Cardiff (FX), Palethorpes van from Dudley to Cardiff and a Brake Van from Worcester to Cardiff. I think the mystery is getting solved. Just need some matching locos now to corroborate dates.

[TheSignalEngineer]

The Brierley Hill van was also listed as sausages in the 1954/5 Carriage Working Notice. That would most likely be traffic from Marsh and Baxter. Prior to the introduction of DMUs the two van was attached to a late afternoon Birmingham - Cardiff at Stourbridge Junction returning to Stourbridge Junction on a morning Cardiff - Birmingham working. I think this stopped in 1958, so your pictures would probably be 1958-64.

[The Johnster]

The Brierley Hill van was also listed as sausages in the 1954/5 Carriage Working Notice. That would most likely be traffic from Marsh and Baxter. Prior to the introduction of DMUs the two van was attached to a late afternoon Birmingham - Cardiff at Stourbridge Junction returning to Stourbridge Junction on a morning Cardiff - Birmingham working. I think this stopped in 1958, so your pictures would probably be 1958-64.

 

The Cardiff-Birmingham Snow Hill DMU service was introduced in 1958, to some fanfare and press coverage in Cardiff; I remember it despite being only 6 at the time!  This would tally with your date of the sausage van working stopping in 1958.

[Michael Delamar]

D7071 Reigate July 1971 by snatmann, on Flickr

[Ian Smeeton]

D7071 Reigate July 1971 by snatmann, on Flickr

 

6 PMVs in one train,

 

There must be a lot of parcels trains elsewhere running without their obligatory one each (minimum)

 

Regards

 

Ian