RMweb Premium keefer Posted January 11, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 11, 2013 as it's late, a quick reply........ 26s didn't have the grommeted windows or the square 'panel' around the window - but there is evidence of a separate frame for THAT window - http://www.flickr.com/photos/brianews/5737257011/in/set-72157626626274339/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/brianews/5737840744/in/set-72157626626274339/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/brianews/5737866102/in/set-72157626626274339/ 33s i don't think so 27s : http://www.flickr.com/photos/brianews/5768421001/in/set-72157626750951268 http://www.flickr.com/photos/brianews/5768990208/in/set-72157626750951268/ actually, even the 27/2s had it too!: http://www.flickr.com/photos/24041160@N02/6880322411/in/set-72157622602429982/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Bob-65b Posted January 11, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 11, 2013 hi sean, never mind the cab windows, what about the 2nd bodyside window in from no.2 end? perhaps a bit of memory wire control so you can have it flush/leaning in a bit/completely fallen in? maybe bob-65b can tell us more about the purpose of this? was it an extra ventilation thing or an 'emergency' hatchamabob? Wasn't it for the fireman sticking his head out of when they were filling the boiler water? tank from platform level?... see the wee supplementary hatch to the left of the folding hinged bodylight) the wee hatch disappeared (got repanelled over fairly early on).... I'd a boss who hated those hinged bodylights - it made a nonsense of BRCW's great cant rail air filters for the "clean air" compartment when they were left swingin' in the breeze like you occasionally saw.... If you look close D5300 has it on t'other side as well smethwick birmingham D5300 by brianhancock50, on Flickr smethwick birmingham D5320 by brianhancock50, on Flickr smethwick birmingham D5348 by brianhancock50, on Flickr Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Phil Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 Wasn't it for the fireman sticking his head out of when they were filling the boiler water? tank from platform level?... see the wee supplementary hatch to the left of the folding hinged bodylight) the wee hatch disappeared (got repanelled over fairly early on).... I'd a boss who hated those hinged bodylights - it made a nonsense of BRCW's great cant rail air filters for the "clean air" compartment when they were left swingin' in the breeze like you occasionally saw.... If you look close D5300 has it on t'other side as well Thanks for posting those illustrations. since the issue was raised a couple of years ago, that the 1250hp had the bodyside windows an inch higher than the 1160hp, i've been looking for comparison images. Those are pretty useful, but I still struggle to understand WHY ? If you were an engineering company who was going to offer an internally upgraded product, wouldn't you offer the same exterior shell with the alterations pasted into the drawings ? I really don't understand the logic behind this, and I am guessing we'll never know the reason, but as an engineer, who used to work around them Bob, have you any logical explanation ? Thanks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
the penguin of doom Posted January 11, 2013 Author Share Posted January 11, 2013 Another spanner in the works from you there Phil. I had mistakenly thought you were talking about the cab side windows being lower. It now has dawned on me you were talking about bodyside windows..... PLEASE tell me they're the same location on a 27 and 33 otherwise I'll have a sight MORE work to do on mine. That said, although 025 was a non boiler loco so theoretically, no need to open the bodyside hatch/window, since the photo's already posted suggest otherwise, I'm sorely tempted to model it just ajar using one of the discarded Lima 33 windows to replace the inevitable damage I'll cause when hacking the Heljan one..... Cheers. Sean. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HealeyMills Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 I know the class 26's had slightly lower windows but I always thought that 27 and 33's were the same specifiction??? I'll be intrigued to see the outcome of this. Cheers Lee Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
the penguin of doom Posted January 11, 2013 Author Share Posted January 11, 2013 Of course, having pressed the "post" button on my last post, I worked out roughly what the difference would be in 7mm. Somewhere in the region of 1/2mm if my maths is right. If that's the case, I don't think I'll worry..... Cheers. Sean. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
the penguin of doom Posted January 11, 2013 Author Share Posted January 11, 2013 as it's late, a quick reply........ 26s didn't have the grommeted windows or the square 'panel' around the window - but there is evidence of a separate frame for THAT window - http://www.flickr.com/photos/brianews/5737257011/in/set-72157626626274339/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/brianews/5737840744/in/set-72157626626274339/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/brianews/5737866102/in/set-72157626626274339/ 33s i don't think so 27s : http://www.flickr.com/photos/brianews/5768421001/in/set-72157626750951268 http://www.flickr.com/photos/brianews/5768990208/in/set-72157626750951268/ actually, even the 27/2s had it too!: http://www.flickr.com/photos/24041160@N02/6880322411/in/set-72157622602429982/ Flippin eck Keefer. If thats a "quick reply", I'd like to see one of your in depth ones..... Some great links there, very helpful in my modelling quest, as are Bobs. I always feel that the official works pictures seem..... I dunno, maybe airbrushed, almost sterile if that makes sense. They are always good for us modellers as none of the details have had time to "grime over". Thanks for posting chaps. Cheers. Sean. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted January 11, 2013 Share Posted January 11, 2013 Note also the louvred window on the 27/2, as we're discussing Class 27 differences. Yes, I know that was confined to this sub-class to cool the ETS generator. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
the penguin of doom Posted January 11, 2013 Author Share Posted January 11, 2013 Note also the louvred window on the 27/2, as we're discussing Class 27 differences. Yes, I know that was confined to this sub-class to cool the ETS generator. Thanks Chard. All info on Class 27 no matter what sub class is greatly recieved. Heck, I'm going to post a class 26 comment in a mo, so I might have to change the title again. I've just checked my Heljan class 26 body and it does indeed have a differing bodyside window surround. It's almost like a double rubber seal as opposed to a seperate panel on the 27's. Cheers. Sean. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
the penguin of doom Posted January 21, 2013 Author Share Posted January 21, 2013 Hi all. Just resurrecting this topic as I need a little help with roof detailing. It turns out that all the roof drawings I have to help with my conversion are for the class 26. I've tried searching t'interweb for a photo of the roof detail, specifically the number two end with the boiler ports etc but no joy. I even tried google maps to see if I could zoom in on a preserved example, but they were all a little too out of focus at such a close zoom. My question is, does anyone out there in RMweb land have a good detailed view of the class 27 roof at No. 2 end, preferrably a non boilered ex NE allocated example or ideally 27 025 around 1980. Ok, I know the last one there is VERY specific, but shy bairns get no sweets as they say..... Alternatively, I'll supply a couple of pints to any one living near enough to a preseverd example willing to venture out when the weather gets warmer and take a couple of photo's for me..... Cheers. Sean. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.C.M Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 Hi Sean, Great thread this I have a Heljan 4mm class 27 to do one day along with a 7mm Lima class 33 and Nigel Stanley conversion kit for a class 27. I may be worth while getting in touch with the Boness Railway as they have 2 class 27s there. I am also sure Modelrail did a master class on 27s a while back I think there was a roof shot, I will go and have a look. Anyway off to check out your thread, I may have to see if I can get a Heljan body myself, there does seem to be alot to do with the Lima one. Cheers Peter. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian daniels Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 I did wonder what you were going to do about the boiler roof! Have you checked out my JLTRT builds of 27101+27203 on my Flickr site as you can see there details on it http://www.flickr.com/photos/brianews/sets/72157626907718268/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
the penguin of doom Posted January 21, 2013 Author Share Posted January 21, 2013 Hi Sean, Great thread this I have a Heljan 4mm class 27 to do one day along with a 7mm Lima class 33 and Nigel Stanley conversion kit for a class 27. I may be worth while getting in touch with the Boness Railway as they have 2 class 27s there. I am also sure Modelrail did a master class on 27s a while back I think there was a roof shot, I will go and have a look. Anyway off to check out your thread, I may have to see if I can get a Heljan body myself, there does seem to be alot to do with the Lima one. Cheers Peter. Hi Peter. There certainly is a lot to do on the Lima 33. This is one of the reasons I ended up with a Heljan body. At the last count, to make the Lima version the correct height/width/length, you'd be looking at over 20 cuts. My Lima one is hooefully going to yeild some of the small round roof vents, (if I cannot cast some using the Heljan mould), and the opening bodyside window panel discussed above. If you do root out the "master class" article, please do let me know about it. Every little helps as some say. I did wonder what you were going to do about the boiler roof! Have you checked out my JLTRT builds of 27101+27203 on my Flickr site as you can see there details on it http://www.flickr.com/photos/brianews/sets/72157626907718268/ Hi Brian. Hope you had a good weekend. Many thanks for posting your link, it's most helpful. By the looks of your pictures, this particular panel is the same on the 26's and 27's, it's just the panels between this and the roof fan housing that differ. I'll stand corrected though..... I intend to use the same methods as I did with DP2 to make this panel, probably making a full overlay from plasticard after grinding off the old detail..... Harsh but necessary! There's also plenty of other good close ups which are most useful too. Thanks again. Sean. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Phil Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 Hi Sean, Great thread this I have a Heljan 4mm class 27 to do one day along with a 7mm Lima class 33 and Nigel Stanley conversion kit for a class 27. I may be worth while getting in touch with the Boness Railway as they have 2 class 27s there. I am also sure Modelrail did a master class on 27s a while back I think there was a roof shot, I will go and have a look. Anyway off to check out your thread, I may have to see if I can get a Heljan body myself, there does seem to be alot to do with the Lima one. Cheers Peter. Never got to the bottom of this question. The boilered class 27s were fitted with a retractable cover which slid over the boiler exhaust port when not in use. Brians JLTRT class 27 has some wire "rails" for this feature. I'm not sure about whether the "NB" class 27s originally allocated to the north east, were fitted with this feature, or whether they were just plated over. Photographs of the boiler roofs are not common !!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
the penguin of doom Posted January 21, 2013 Author Share Posted January 21, 2013 Never got to the bottom of this question. The boilered class 27s were fitted with a retractable cover which slid over the boiler exhaust port when not in use. Brians JLTRT class 27 has some wire "rails" for this feature. I'm not sure about whether the "NB" class 27s originally allocated to the north east, were fitted with this feature, or whether they were just plated over. Photographs of the boiler roofs are not common !!!! As I'm finding out to my cost Phil. I think that it would be a fair guess to suggest that the locos would be build with the necessary ports but just with a plate added. Certainly, I think this was generally the case with other builds? Certainly, at least one of the NB ones ended up as a push/pull loco so should have had some form of boiler/eth added? You'll note my inclusion of question marks above. Feel free to discuss further..... Cheers. Sean. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waveydavey Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 Note also the louvred window on the 27/2, as we're discussing Class 27 differences. Yes, I know that was confined to this sub-class to cool the ETS generator. From studying photos in my book collection and on line I've come to the conclusion that the additional grills fitted to 27/2s were fitted during 1977. I don't have my notes handy but IIRC the earliest photo I could find of a 27/2 with the grills was early 1977 and the latest picture of one without the grills was late '77. Cheers David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.C.M Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 Hi Sean, I haven't had a close look at what needs to be done with the Lima body but I do know it needs to be cut down the middle as its too wide by about 5mm. Modelrail No 64 Feb 2004 has some info on class 27s and a few pics, not as good an article as I thought. I have bumped my Thread on class 27/2s in the Modelling Questions Hints and Tips section, you might find the roof shots useful. Cheers Peter. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
the penguin of doom Posted January 22, 2013 Author Share Posted January 22, 2013 Hi all. The eagle eyed among you may notice I have changed the title of this thread to encompass the class 26's also. It's completely selfish as I have a class 26 question and you lot were so good with the 27's, well, how can I lose, (a compliment gets you everywhere!). I am hoping to turn my class 26 into 26 041 for no other reason than I've lost all my notes from my trainspotting days and this number seems to ring a bell. Fortunately, 041 seemed to be well travelled apparently being no stranger South of the border and being a later withdrawn example too. Anywho, my model has tablet catcher recesses and I have found a picture of her with this feature in 1976, unfortunately, the photo shows her as the inner loco of a double header and so I can's see if she has the additional pair of Lucas headlamps on the front. I'd also like to model this feature, but can only seem to find a picture of her with the lamps fitted in 1979 but by then, the recesses have gone. I assume that the lamps were fitted during the same works visit that the recesses were plated over but if anyone can show me a picture of the loco with both features, I think I'd like to model her in this condition. Gauntlet well and truly laid down..... Cheers. Sean. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave47549 Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
the penguin of doom Posted January 22, 2013 Author Share Posted January 22, 2013 Hi Sean, I haven't had a close look at what needs to be done with the Lima body but I do know it needs to be cut down the middle as its too wide by about 5mm. Modelrail No 64 Feb 2004 has some info on class 27s and a few pics, not as good an article as I thought. I have bumped my Thread on class 27/2s in the Modelling Questions Hints and Tips section, you might find the roof shots useful. Cheers Peter. Hi Peter. Thanks for drawing my attention to your thread. It's most helpful. I started my Lima 33/27 conversion, but didn't get as far as cutting lengthways along the centre. As I recall there's about 5 or 6mm to lose! Cheers. Sean. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
the penguin of doom Posted January 22, 2013 Author Share Posted January 22, 2013 Photo dated 3/6/77, headlights & tablet cutout: http://www.flickr.com/photos/33106/5722245858/ Hope this helps. It certainly does help Dave! It seems a very late date to have the tablet catcher recess still in situ. Do you or anyone else know when they were finally removed? Cheers. Sean. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HealeyMills Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 Hi Sean, Perhaps not totally what you are looking for but have a look at some of the class 26 gen here: 6lda.wordpress.com HTH CheersLee Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted January 22, 2013 Share Posted January 22, 2013 Now expanded to class 26 here is a link to my collection of them http://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/brclass26 And the 33s http://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/brcwclass33 Paul Bartlett Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
the penguin of doom Posted January 24, 2013 Author Share Posted January 24, 2013 Thanks Lee and Paul for those links. I've just had a quick look so far, but will return to them when time permits. I may be gone some time..... Cheers. Sean. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
the penguin of doom Posted February 10, 2013 Author Share Posted February 10, 2013 Hi all. Just re-resurecting the thread as I have another query! Firstly, I can assure you that if I lived nearby a preserved 26/27, I'd do this myself. Anywho, does anyone reading this thread live close enough to the 26/27's to chuck a tape measure across them? I'm trying to find out if the centre cab window is the same size on both classes and what is the actual correct size of each? I have asked a couple of readers to measure up their own excellent models, but there's nowt better than 12"/1' scale to ensure it's right. The reason I'm asking is because, to me, my front end seems to be not quite right and I feel it's down to the window spacing/sizing. It may be that the main cab windows are set incorrectly or even the wrong size as I am using a pre production body but I feel it will be best to start from the centre window and work outwards. Anywho, if anyone can help out, I'd be obliged and if so, you may even consider measuring the windows either side of the centre window on each class?..... Ok, now I'm being cheeky, however, as an alternative, if a head on photo exists taken from platform level, I could always try and zoom in/out on screen to try and get the measurements from that..... Gauntlet well and truly laid down..... Cheers. Sean. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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