Shunters / Locotracteurs

[SNCF stephen]

With the Chatres - Orleans line reopening, perhaps this station will see a new lease of life:

[JeffP]

Where is that, and what is the route of the Chartres-Orleans line, please. I only know one line going in that direction from Chartres and it runs south towards Voves. It is used mainly for grain.

After Voves, afaik, the line is disused?

 

And yes, my photos are taken at Boisville. If I can find them, I'll scan one or two in.

[Oldddudders]

Le Train's latest atlas - much more useful than its predecessor, having real maps, although still far too many pages of glossy train pics - shows the line leaving Voves and going all the way to Orleans.

[JeffP]

So it does, just followed it on Google maps, thanks.

[Pacific231G]

Le Train's latest atlas - much more useful than its predecessor, having real maps, although still far too many pages of glossy train pics - shows the line leaving Voves and going all the way to Orleans.

 

If you get onto the RFF website they have maps of the network that show LGVs,  single and double track, what's electrified and which lines are freight only and which non-exploitée in other words not in use but not yet formally abandoned. The whole of Chartes-Orleans and the branch from that line at Patay towards Chateaudun is freight only with the middle part of Patay-Chateaudun non-exploitée (according to other sources because the track was so dire) The latest information I can find from February last year was that Voves-Patay was operated VUTR (Voie Unique à Trafic restreint) in other words by train orders with no other signalling and effectively run as two stubs controlled from Voves and Patay though if necessary trains could run the whole way. Patay to Les Aubrais (Orleans) was VUSS (Voie unique à signalisation simplifiée) which is usually telephone block with no actual operating signals outside of major junctions. Nowadays that's usually one down from the minimum level required for regular passenger services but would handle more goods traffic than VUTR.  Patay to Péronville on the line to Chateaudun is VUTR and I think serves a quarry.

 

There used to be a very useful map on the RFF website showing the signalling regimes in use throughout the network but I can't find it anymore.

[Oldddudders]

The RFF maps look astonishingly similar to the Le Train version.

[JeffP]

Does anyone have a link to the RFF website?

[Pacific231G]

Does anyone have a link to the RFF website?

www.rff.fr 

The interactive "carte" can take a while to load so if you go to http://www.rff.fr/fr/le-reseau/les-cartes/  you'll get straight to where you can download maps. I've found it best to simply get all the main regional maps. Together they give you a free railway atlas of the whole of France at a useful scale though some privately operated lines such as Laluque to Tartas aren't shown and they are a couple of years old now.

For some reason the very useful "signalisation"  map, showing the regimes in force on each line, now only appears to be available for Languedoc-Rousillon. I'm sure it used to be there for the whole network along with the "tarification" map that gave a good idea of the status of each line.

 

 

EDIT You don't seem to be able to get to the national map of block systems from the site menu but if you Google "RFF espacement des trains" the fourth item [pdf] Modes d'espacement des trains Block systems - RFF   is a pdf of the latest version from December 2012. The second entry with a similar name is a slightly older version from 2009. "Other" (autre) systems are mostly VUTR though also include some passenger lines such as the metre gauge Blanc Argent and a line in the Pyrennees that are operated in some other way. 

The map isn't entirely reliable -it doesn't show the part of the Paris-Tours line that passes through Voves but only the adjoining LGV and it shows the whole of Voves-Patay-Orleans as Cantonnement Telephonique (non-interlocked telephone block) on both maps whereas someone who retired from the control office in 2011 says that Voves-Patay was definitely VUTR. That might not though make any difference to the actual physical installation.

[JeffP]

Found those pictures of the little Y2200 loco now in private use at a facility near to Allonnes on the N154 south of Chartres:

 

 

 

 

The loco can be seen clearly, usually standing under the loading bay for some protection from the elements, from the road bridge spanning the TGV Sud-Ouest line and the local line towards Voves.

 

Both of those can be seen on the extreme right of the top photo.

 

The facility is also very close to a tiny village by the name of "Demainville"..."Tomorrow Town".

[sparks]

www.rff.fr 

The interactive "carte" can take a while to load so if you go to http://www.rff.fr/fr/le-reseau/les-cartes/  you'll get straight to where you can download maps. I've found it best to simply get all the main regional maps. Together they give you a free railway atlas of the whole of France at a useful scale though some privately operated lines such as Laluque to Tartas aren't shown and they are a couple of years old now.

For some reason the very useful "signalisation"  map, showing the regimes in force on each line, now only appears to be available for Languedoc-Rousillon. I'm sure it used to be there for the whole network along with the "tarification" map that gave a good idea of the status of each line.

 

Thanks for that! I had to amend the link slightly to http://www.rff.fr/fr/le-reseau/les-cartes/ to make it work though. I've been reading about the Z 5100 Budd emus, the 'Standards' and the Petit Ceinture recently so it's good to be able to 'place' some of the locations mentioned. Can anyone point me in the direction of a historical map of Paris please?

 

Thanks

[Pacific231G]

Thanks for that! I had to amend the link slightly to http://www.rff.fr/fr/le-reseau/les-cartes/ to make it work though. I've been reading about the Z 5100 Budd emus, the 'Standards' and the Petit Ceinture recently so it's good to be able to 'place' some of the locations mentioned. Can anyone point me in the direction of a historical map of Paris please?

 

Thanks

How historical do you want to be? http://www.geoportail.gouv.fr is a good source and includes the Cartes Etats Major from 1822-1866 which show the earliest railways in the capital though not in great detail. If you just want an overview then do a Google image search on Paris plan or Paris plan historique and a whole bunch of them will show up. 

 

If you want to dig really deep then the city's online archives  http://canadp-archivesenligne.paris.fr/documents_figures/index.php include the "plans parcellaires" from 1871-1896 These, which I think are basically rating maps, are to a large enough scale to show trackwork in detail though they can be a bit faint. and are to such a large scale that you'll need to go through a fair number to generate a complete plan. Unfortunately there is a hole in the Paris records as many were destroyed during the Paris Commune in 1871 so the earlier plans of this type available are from before the first railways. Frustrating for me as I really want a plan of Paris Bastille from when it was first built.

[sparks]

How historical do you want to be? http://www.geoportail.gouv.fr is a good source and includes the Cartes Etats Major from 1822-1866 which show the earliest railways in the capital though not in great detail. If you just want an overview then do a Google image search on Paris plan or Paris plan historique and a whole bunch of them will show up. 

 

If you want to dig really deep then the city's online archives  http://canadp-archivesenligne.paris.fr/documents_figures/index.php include the "plans parcellaires" from 1871-1896 These, which I think are basically rating maps, are to a large enough scale to show trackwork in detail though they can be a bit faint. and are to such a large scale that you'll need to go through a fair number to generate a complete plan. Unfortunately there is a hole in the Paris records as many were destroyed during the Paris Commune in 1871 so the earlier plans of this type available are from before the first railways. Frustrating for me as I really want a plan of Paris Bastille from when it was first built.

 

Thanks David. The geoportail looks very comprehensive and I'll have to find time to have a serious look at that. The map on this page http://www.petiteceinture.org/Histoire-de-la-Petite-Ceinture-377.html is sufficient for now.

 

Thanks

[Pacific231G]

Thanks David. The geoportail looks very comprehensive and I'll have to find time to have a serious look at that. The map on this page http://www.petiteceinture.org/Histoire-de-la-Petite-Ceinture-377.html is sufficient for now.

 

Thanks

Beware: the Peite Ceinture will get under your skin!! I've been fascinated by it for years ever since travelling round most of what was then left - some of it on the footplate of 230G353- on an IFC "Tour de Paris" in April1989. At that time, apart from the section incorporated into the RER, it was still being used for goods transfers from Bifurcation St. Lazare round to Gobelins but from there we travelled on the technically completely closed section to the Bifurcation Blvd St. Victor. I say technically closed because, apart from specials like ours, I think RATP were still using the very sharply curved and graded connection to their Vaugirard depot (complete with level crossing) to bring in new metro sets.

I did travel on a "Standard" but on the line from Invalides to Versailles and back during the mid 1970s when it was still third rail. I remember it as being quite nostalgic but a bit primitive. I never travelled on the line to Auteuil apart from the short section from Pont Cardinet to Pereire when that was operated as a shuttle but did walk the length of it from Porte Maillot to Auteuil in December 1989. The third rail had been removed but the track was still intact and, judging by the sign saying SNCF Section de Caténaires in a fenced off section of the Auteuil terminus, had been used during the incorporation of part of the line into RER C. Auteuil station itself was still open as an SNCF booking office but without any trains to offer.

 

I wrote accounts of both my expeditions for the SNCF Society Journal and in the September 1984 edition there was also a short description by another member with a couple of photos of Pont-Cardinet - Auteuil during its last year.  At that time it was still operated by "Standards" in the form of two car Z1400/Z1500 sets.

[sparks]

Beware: the Peite Ceinture will get under your skin!! I've been fascinated by it for years ever since travelling round most of what was then left - some of it on the footplate of 230G353- on an IFC "Tour de Paris" in April1989. At that time, apart from the section incorporated into the RER, it was still being used for goods transfers from Bifurcation St. Lazare round to Gobelins but from there we travelled on the technically completely closed section to the Bifurcation Blvd St. Victor. I say technically closed because, apart from specials like ours, I think RATP were still using the very sharply curved and graded connection to their Vaugirard depot (complete with level crossing) to bring in new metro sets.

I did travel on a "Standard" but on the line from Invalides to Versailles and back during the mid 1970s when it was still third rail. I remember it as being quite nostalgic but a bit primitive. I never travelled on the line to Auteuil apart from the short section from Pont Cardinet to Pereire when that was operated as a shuttle but did walk the length of it from Porte Maillot to Auteuil in December 1989. The third rail had been removed but the track was still intact and, judging by the sign saying SNCF Section de Caténaires in a fenced off section of the Auteuil terminus, had been used during the incorporation of part of the line into RER C. Auteuil station itself was still open as an SNCF booking office but without any trains to offer.

 

I wrote accounts of both my expeditions for the SNCF Society Journal and in the September 1984 edition there was also a short description by another member with a couple of photos of Pont-Cardinet - Auteuil during its last year.  At that time it was still operated by "Standards" in the form of two car Z1400/Z1500 sets.

 

I discovered the Petit Ceinture a few years ago and my recently my interest in Paris has been rekindled by discovering the Jouef Z5100 emus and reading about Mr Connor's PC layout on here. However, whenever I do some reading I always end up back at 'Le site des Standard' http://z1572.free.fr/ which has a huge amount of information on all the 3rd rail lines - I was looking for a map to put some of this information into context. Check put the 'articles' section in particular (if you haven't come across it already, of course).

 

Apologies for veering off topic!

 

Stuart