Shunters / Locotracteurs

[bluedepot]

Any details or thoughts on what's available?

 

I've seen some Roco Y 8000 ones, also I saw some LS Models Y7400 shunters.

 

Which shunter type would be more likely to have worked trip freights?  I'm not very clued up on shunters

 

As an aside, here is a video I made in the summer at Thionville...

 

 

Cheers,

 

 

Tim

 

 

[JeffP]

Either of the above.

 

If you are into SNCF, can I suggest the Platform 5 book, "French Railways"? Up to Volume three they used to be in both English and French, very useful.

 

The older editions are also useful for photos of older locos and details of what, where and when.

[Oldddudders]

If you are feeling flush, don't forget this - made in the UK!

 

http://www.djhmodelloco.co.uk/prodpage.asp?productid=3332

[Fat Controller]

As a rule of thumb, all the locotracteurs numbered above Y7xxx might have been found on trip workings at some point; they have relatively high top speeds (50 kph or so) and a long enough wheelbase to actuate track circuits. Such of the older (pre-Y7xxx) locos that are left are confined to yard or depot use; many are classed as 'LOCMA', and are treated as machine tools (a sort of 'internal user')- they don't have to be driven by a main-line driver. Quite a lot are kept as depot pilots, as SNCF are keen on traversers and turntables (sometimes, as at Toulouse, both together!)and a short shunter that can accompany a dead loco on these is very useful.

[bluedepot]

cheers for replies!

 

yes i have two of the platform 5 books with all the loco and emu/dmu classes in it, i have an old one and the most up to date one! i also have a few french train magazines. i watch french trains on youtube as well...

 

one of the things i love about sncf are the roundhouses and turntables!

 

i was hoping to get a dcc shunter for £100 or less... if i win the lotto then maybe i can go higher!  

 

cheers

 

 

tim

[Mike at C&M]

i was hoping to get a dcc shunter for £100 or less...

The LS Models Y7100/7400 shunter is not DCC Ready

[Joseph_Pestell]

Used to be possible to get the Roco Y8400 very cheaply in sets - which I guess these days might be DCC.

[alastairq]

don't forget..at completely the other end of the price range, is/was the Jouef  Y51100 shunter?

 

Now, this was the one that could be found in the blister packs with a wagon...for less than £20!

 

Low on fine detail, with a bit of modification it could be made into a reasonable model.

 

The running gear is simple to upgrade....

 

I'll get my coat then?

[Joseph_Pestell]

Jouef made odd choices when it came to shunters. Both Y51100 and  C61000 were rare beasts. They could have picked prototypes - particularly Y7100/7400 with far wider appeal.

[Joseph_Pestell]

Another rare bird - but one that might appeal to OP - is the BB71000. Now used as shunters on various industrial estates around France but previously a branch freight loco. Kit used to be available from ScaleLink but I don't know if currently in stock.

[Fat Controller]

Another rare bird - but one that might appeal to OP - is the BB71000. Now used as shunters on various industrial estates around France but previously a branch freight loco. Kit used to be available from ScaleLink but I don't know if currently in stock.

The 'Pedalo', the French equivalent and contemporary of the Class 14; unlike the various Yo-Yos, it had to be driven by a fully-qualified main-line driver, so not popular for yard work. Most went very quickly into industrial use as the lighter branch freights were disappearing fast, and they weren't up to heavy grain and timber trains.

The C61000 seemed to occupy a similar niche; a large number went to RATP for PW trains around Paris. There used to be a lot hanging around Massy; I think they may have been replaced by BB63000 clones.

[EddieB]

For those into northern France (or Gabon!), Hornby International do (did?) a version of the Y50100 series, ten of which passed into SNCF ownership having originally been the Wehrmacht V36 type shunter.  They were renumbered from 030 DB 1 - 10 in the early sixties, but all had been withdrawn (passed into industrial use/exported) by 1972.

[Joseph_Pestell]

The 'Pedalo', the French equivalent and contemporary of the Class 14; unlike the various Yo-Yos, it had to be driven by a fully-qualified main-line driver, so not popular for yard work. Most went very quickly into industrial use as the lighter branch freights were disappearing fast, and they weren't up to heavy grain and timber trains.

The C61000 seemed to occupy a similar niche; a large number went to RATP for PW trains around Paris. There used to be a lot hanging around Massy; I think they may have been replaced by BB63000 clones.

 

Through all my years in France, I never knew that locotracteurs could be driven by non-qualified drivers. It would certainly explain the incident that I saw a few years ago in Narbonne when a locotracteur hit the buffers at the end of the bay platform still doing about 10kph.

[Fat Controller]

Through all my years in France, I never knew that locotracteurs could be driven by non-qualified drivers. It would certainly explain the incident that I saw a few years ago in Narbonne when a locotracteur hit the buffers at the end of the bay platform still doing about 10kph.

Given how our rulebook is largely derived from SNCF practice, I suspect that they would have to have a main-line-passed driver as pilot whilst on main-line tracks. In the case you mentioned, he'd either already jumped ship, or had covered his eyes...

I wonder if the current generation of locotracteur are fitted with KVB (the non-LGV line version of Automatic Train Protection)? Not having this would restrict their use.

[JeffP]

The 'Pedalo', the French equivalent and contemporary of the Class 14; unlike the various Yo-Yos, it had to be driven by a fully-qualified main-line driver, so not popular for yard work. Most went very quickly into industrial use as the lighter branch freights were disappearing fast, and they weren't up to heavy grain and timber trains.

The C61000 seemed to occupy a similar niche; a large number went to RATP for PW trains around Paris. There used to be a lot hanging around Massy; I think they may have been replaced by BB63000 clones.

Only ever saw one of the "Pedalos", at Autun, it was awaiting disposal after being displaced by the Class 20's bought from British Rail.

 

There used to be some lovely interesting locos around French depots, sadly all gone now.

I would love a model of a Y2200, or Y2400....

 

The latest SNCF Platform 5 book gives details of where all the privately owned ones are. I have photos of one near Chartres, standing within metres of the TGV Sud Ouest line, under a grain loading silo. There is supposed to be one near St Junien, about 30 miles from our property, at a paper mill, but I've never seen it.

[Fat Controller]

Only ever saw one of the "Pedalos", at Autun, it was awaiting disposal after being displaced by the Class 20's bought from British Rail.

 

There used to be some lovely interesting locos around French depots, sadly all gone now.

I would love a model of a Y2200, or Y2400....

 

The latest SNCF Platform 5 book gives details of where all the privately owned ones are. I have photos of one near Chartres, standing within metres of the TGV Sud Ouest line, under a grain loading silo. There is supposed to be one near St Junien, about 30 miles from our property, at a paper mill, but I've never seen it.

The one at Autun was, sans bogies, stood on blocks outside the shed for at least a couple of years; I used to pass there on my way to and from the Beaujolais on the 'Bison Fute' route that also took me through Chatillon-sur-Seine, with its CFTA Bo-Bos.

[Pacific231G]

 

The latest SNCF Platform 5 book gives details of where all the privately owned ones are. I have photos of one near Chartres, standing within metres of the TGV Sud Ouest line, under a grain loading silo. There is supposed to be one near St Junien, about 30 miles from our property, at a paper mill, but I've never seen it.

Would that be this one that I found hanging round the intervention grain stock silos at Voves about half way between Chartres and Orleans in November. LGV Sud Ouest passes just behind these silos and I've seen them from the TGV to Bordeaux

 

 

 

The "main" line through Voves is the single track (from Dourdan) from Paris to Chateaudun and Vendome that you see running alongside the LGV

for about sixty kms. Voves is the junction with the old Rouen-Orleans line from Chartres to Orleans currently goods only but being upgraded in stages for passenger service.  

 

Does anyone know to what extent the rules that applied to locotracteurs had applied to small steam locos used for local shunting. I'm thinking of that scene is La Bataille de Rail when an old loco at a country station (a Ouest 030C I think) is fired up by a retired crew to engage in some unsubtle sabotage so wondered what crewing such locos needed for ad hoc shunting. That film, made in 1946 with a lot of input from cheminots who'd been in the Resistance Fer, is very good on contemporary operational detail so this wouldn't have been film makers licence.

[Pacific231G]

If you are feeling flush, don't forget this - made in the UK!

 

http://www.djhmodelloco.co.uk/prodpage.asp?productid=3332

If you are feeling less flush the kit is "only" £214.47 and if it's in stock their cheaper kit for the Y51100 is "only" £127.50 and apparently designed for beginners. I'm not sure why DJH have two kits for the Y51100 one twice the price of the other though the more expensive kit does have a different exhaust.

[Fat Controller]

Would that be this one that I found hanging round the intervention grain stock silos at Voves about half way between Chartres and Orleans in November. LGV Sud Ouest passes just behind these silos and I've seen them from the TGV to Bordeaux

 

Locotracteur at Voves.jpg

 

Locotracteur at Voves CU.jpg

 

The "main" line through Voves is the single track (from Dourdan) from Paris to Chateaudun and Vendome that you see running alongside the LGV

for about sixty kms. Voves is the junction with the old Rouen-Orleans line from Chartres to Orleans currently goods only but being upgraded in stages for passenger service.  

 

Does anyone know to what extent the rules that applied to locotracteurs had applied to small steam locos used for local shunting. I'm thinking of that scene is La Bataille de Rail when an old loco at a country station (a Ouest 030C I think) is fired up by a retired crew to engage in some unsubtle sabotage so wondered what crewing such locos needed for ad hoc shunting. That film, made in 1946 with a lot of input from cheminots who'd been in the Resistance Fer, is very good on contemporary operational detail so this wouldn't have been film makers licence.

That's one of the early 'YoYos', rather than one of the BB71000. The BB71000 have two four-wheel bogies, each of which has coupling rods between the two axles. I think the Yo-Yos were originally intended to replace a lot of the horse-shunting at small yards, rather than steam engines. There were some very interesting lash-ups to provide shunters immediately post-war; Jeeps and Dodge one-tonners were the obvious ones, along with agricultural tractors, but one silo used, until fairly recently, a White Scout Car.

[Joseph_Pestell]

Not sure, but I don't think that is an ex-SNCF shunting loco at all. There were several French manufacturers of industrial locos which went straight to private users.

 

For those that absolutely want to run model TGVs (dull operationally), I have always thought that this was a good location for a layout. The TGVs could be left to run round on a loop of track with proper operation taking place on the branch line and sidings.

[SNCF stephen]

@Pacific231G - Is that the small industrial complex on the east of the road linking Orleans and Chatres? I have only occiassionally seen trains there but it is nice to see a picture of the facilitiy. I quite like driving through that area on the way to Limoges!

[Pacific231G]

@Pacific231G - Is that the small industrial complex on the east of the road linking Orleans and Chatres? I have only occiassionally seen trains there but it is nice to see a picture of the facilitiy. I quite like driving through that area on the way to Limoges!

I think that's more likely to be the silos in the old station yard at Boisville which is on the east of the N154. Voves is about 7km to the west of the road. I stopped there for lunch on the way to the Orleans show in November mainly because the junction looked interesting. The station and industrial areas are on the northern edge of the town and at that point the LGV is about 500 metres north of the ligne classique with the large silos between them to the west of the station. The grain silos, which are very large, have a set of rail sidings that look used. I've now identified the shunter, which almost certainly isn't as disused as it looks, as Moyse type 20 TED no 42. It was built in 1924 and is apparently one of the oldest diesel shunters still in service in France. It was bought by SCAEL (Société Coopérative Agricole d'Eure et Loir) secondhand to work in their silos at Voves. There are more pictures of it here http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/fr/private/agriculture/SCAEL/pix.html

 

Small locotracteurs like these that may do nothing more than shove wagons one by one under loading points are pretty common in such situations in France and seem to go on forever.

 

I agree with Joseph that with an interesting junction and the LGV in the background Voves could be an attractive prototype especially when they re-open Chartres-Orleans to passengers thus making it a passenger junction as well as a goods hub. Chartres-Voves is supposed to reopen to passengers at the end of 2015 though I'm not holding my breath and Voves-Orleans sometime after that. As well as the current private sidings for SCAEL north west of the station there used to be another set serving more silos and a factory to the south east and these could easily be reopened.

 

There is also a similar situation though on a smaller scale at Auneau about 25km up the line towards Paris. Here the LGV is much closer to the classique station and it too used to be a double junction with a line from Chartres to Etampes though only a short spur of that now survives serving industries (more silos I think)in the actual town of Auneau.

[Joseph_Pestell]

I thought it was a Moyse but did not want to commit myself.

 

I last drove back that way early last year when bringing furniture back to UK for my father. I was indeed thinking of the small complex just to the east of N154.

[Oldddudders]

The Jouef C61000 may not be the archetypal French shunter, but it can be affordable.

 

http://www.pierredominique.com/art-36385-locomotive-diesel-030-sncf.html

 

Superdetail kits are available, too http://smd-productions.fr/ Look for kits 126 and 129A, the latter allowing working headlights.

 

No info on ease of DCC installation but how hard can it be? Well within budget, I think.

[bluedepot]

_{Cheers for all the replies!  iI think I will just look out for a Roco Y8400, although I suspect that the LS Models shunter must be DCC convertable for a fee.}

 

_{Nice pic Pacific - that would make a good model, grain silos and the shunter all looking dilapidated...}

 

_{Best wishes}

 

 

_Tim