East West rail, Bletchley to oxford line

[Nearholmer]

8 hours ago, VarsityJim said:

I’m sure I’d read elsewhere that the landfill would still be in use alongside HS2

Yes, I CBA to look it all up now, but I’m sure the plans showed a new version of the unloading facility, accessed from the new version of the line to/from Aylesbury.

[Ron Ron Ron]

I did a bit of Googling about the Calvert Landfill site.

It appears that one pit is still being used for landfill, with deliveries by road.

Another filled pit, is being topped with processed ash from the nearby energy incinerator.

Pre-lockdown, up to 5 trains a day delivered waste to the site.

During the lockdown in 2020, this went down to one train per day, rising back to 2 trains, before the rail line was closed in March 2021.

The tracks were lifted during 2021.

 

It appears that a new line, new track layout and new unloading area will be installed, alongside the new HS2 formation.

 

*****

[Edit 07/07/22 :  The new sidings and unloading terminal for Calvert, will be sited opposite the FCC EfW facility, located on the other side (east side) of HS2 and alongside and separate from the new "Aylesbury Link Railway". 

A new gantry crane will be installed.

This site is almost 1.4 miles south of where the old unloading area stood.

A new road bridge will link the new unloading sidings, with the EfW facility and the remaining landfill sites. ]

 

 

Some more information about the Calvert site here.

 

https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/commonplace-customer-files/hs2inbucksandoxfordshire/HS2 Notice of Works Calvert Railway Sidings (005) print - Copy.pdf

 

https://www.greatmoor.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/2021_01_21-Greatmoor-Calvert-CLG-minutes-FINAL.pdf

 

https://publicaccess.aylesburyvaledc.gov.uk/online-applications/files/D2778734DEB4B1B54CF5E93871354E2D/pdf/16_02034_SO-SUPPORTING_DOCUMENTS-1549343.pdf

 

 

Heritage Railway Magazine ran this piece in Nov 2021....

 

https://www.pressreader.com/uk/heritage-railway/20211123/281973200911024

 

 

 

.

Edited July 7, 2022 by Ron Ron Ron

[Rugd1022]

19 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

Is that kosher delineation of the edge of a possession? Assuming that a railway that doesn’t entirely exist can be under possession!

 

Yes - it's a bit of an odd one really because the work site is the entire possession, rather than a separate area within it. It all works very well though and everyone involved knows their stuff.

[The Stationmaster]

22 hours ago, Ron Ron Ron said:

 

 

 

At 9.45 mins,  the piers for the bridge, carrying the EW rail over the HS2 line, can be seen under construction.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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That doesn't look right to me. Those wing walls are south of the existing EWR trackbed and in any case it passes, or passed, under the road just to the west of there.  So in order for the EWR to get over that bridge there will need to be both a diversion of it and the road (or a very steep gradient) and it will put a kink into the EWR route where it was previously fairly straight.  So are we actually looking a bridge for an access road to passover something?

 

Logically the new HS2 route would surely pass over the EWR route (with its existing formation footprint) rather than the other way about?

[jamie92208]

1 minute ago, The Stationmaster said:

That doesn't look right to me. Those wing walls are south of the existing EWR trackbed and in any case it passes, or passed, under the road just to the west of there.  So in order for the EWR to get over that bridge there will need to be both a diversion of it and the road (or a very steep gradient) and it will put a kink into the EWR route where it was previously fairly straight.  So are we actually looking a bridge for an access road to passover something?

 

Logically the new HS2 route would surely pass over the EWR route (with its existing formation footprint) rather than the other way about?

IIRC  the EWR route is going over HS2.  They are planning to finish laying the track from Bletchley to the HS2 worksite boundary, then they are going to start from the Bicester end and then fill in the gap when the new bridge and approach embankments are complete in I think 2023.

 

Jamie

[Nearholmer]

I'm sure we discussed this back up thread, and IIRC (which I may not!) EWR has to hump-up slightly to get over HS2, which adopts a different level from the old GCR, to give a better gradient profile over the Finmere Ridge.

[The Stationmaster]

1 minute ago, Nearholmer said:

I'm sure we discussed this back up thread, and IIRC (which I may not!) EWR has to hump-up slightly to get over HS2, which adopts a different level from the old GCR, to give a better gradient profile over the Finmere Ridge.

And one heck of a 'hump' in EWR plus of course the nearby because you won't get a workable gradient between the road and that bridge.  HS2 gradient profile  would have thought hardly matters when you look at the sort of gradients which exist on some parts of SNCF LGVs especially one near Lille to the south east of Armentiere which us the nearest thing I've seen on a railway to a road overbridge in fairly flat country.

 

You can see the railway coming in from the left (north west) where it was at the same level as that road and climbing  up to the bridge,  the gradient doesn't look too bad here but seen from the driving cab it is a very distinct, sudden, climb to get over the bridge - taken at maximum line speed.  Maybe French railway engineers are different from British ones and more experienced when it comes to designing LGVs?

 

[Nearholmer]

Im not contending that bridge in question is the bridge.

[Rugd1022]

51 minutes ago, jamie92208 said:

IIRC  the EWR route is going over HS2.  They are planning to finish laying the track from Bletchley to the HS2 worksite boundary, then they are going to start from the Bicester end and then fill in the gap when the new bridge and approach embankments are complete in I think 2023.

 

Jamie

 

I was told the other day that we (Freightliner) have about three weeks more work to do on the Bletchley - Bicester section, then the trains and materials will be coming in from the Oxford end. Despite the odd shift timings I must say I'm really enjoying it, it all seems to be going very well, especially considering several drivers have knocked sick due to testing positive for the dreaded covid lurgy. This alone has caused quite a few problems with drivers on site running out of hours etc. The lads on the ground have been great though, giving us lifts back to Bletchley when our usual staff cars and vans aren't available. Despite the general air of doom and gloom pervading the UK sometimes, railway infrastructure projects are very much ongoing (Northampton Gateway is the next big one on our patch)

Edited July 6, 2022 by Rugd1022

[Pannier Tank]

2 hours ago, Rugd1022 said:

I was told the other day that we (Freightliner) have about three weeks more work to do on the Bletchley - Bicester section, then the trains and materials will be coming in from the Oxford end.

 

As you travel (presumably) wrong line towards the Newton Longville to Whaddon Road Bridge at the Eastern end of the former Swanbourne Sidings, I note the two lines diverge to go under different arches of the bridge. The Westbound Track appears to be laid on it's original formation but the Eastbound Track is re-aligned on to what was the entrance/exit to Swanbourne Sidings. Do you know the reason for this?

[Ron Ron Ron]

4 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

That doesn't look right to me. Those wing walls are south of the existing EWR trackbed and in any case it passes, or passed, under the road just to the west of there. .......

 

........Logically the new HS2 route would surely pass over the EWR route (with its existing formation footprint) rather than the other way about?

 

4 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

And one heck of a 'hump' in EWR plus of course the nearby because you won't get a workable gradient between the road and that bridge.....  

 

I don't know what you're looking at Mike, but the bridge piers are entirely in direct line of the EW formation, as can be seen in the video at time 15.18.

 

There are two bridges being built. 

The bridge carrying EW rail over HS2 is the darker coloured one in the video (possibly shuttering?).

The bridge carrying the diverted road is the lighter (new concrete) one in the foreground.

The old road bridge between the two new bridges will be removed.

 

Click on the video below to start it and then pause straight away, to see the HS2 / EW rail crossing point and the new bridge piers under construction..

 

 

[Rugd1022]

3 hours ago, Pannier Tank said:

 

As you travel (presumably) wrong line towards the Newton Longville to Whaddon Road Bridge at the Eastern end of the former Swanbourne Sidings, I note the two lines diverge to go under different arches of the bridge. The Westbound Track appears to be laid on it's original formation but the Eastbound Track is re-aligned on to what was the entrance/exit to Swanbourne Sidings. Do you know the reason for this?

 

I'll find out tomorrow, I'll be down there on 6Y71 in the morning 😉.

[Mike Storey]

11 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

And one heck of a 'hump' in EWR plus of course the nearby because you won't get a workable gradient between the road and that bridge.  HS2 gradient profile  would have thought hardly matters when you look at the sort of gradients which exist on some parts of SNCF LGVs especially one near Lille to the south east of Armentiere which us the nearest thing I've seen on a railway to a road overbridge in fairly flat country.

 

You can see the railway coming in from the left (north west) where it was at the same level as that road and climbing  up to the bridge,  the gradient doesn't look too bad here but seen from the driving cab it is a very distinct, sudden, climb to get over the bridge - taken at maximum line speed.  Maybe French railway engineers are different from British ones and more experienced when it comes to designing LGVs?

 

 

True Mike. We have several like that on the new-ish LGV Atlantique, down these 'ere parts. I am not sure how it affects energy consumption, but they did not seem to be too worried about it then. It might well explain how the cost per mile was so relatively cheap. I think it might be different for HS2, with its green targets?

 

[jamie92208]

7 hours ago, Mike Storey said:

 

True Mike. We have several like that on the new-ish LGV Atlantique, down these 'ere parts. I am not sure how it affects energy consumption, but they did not seem to be too worried about it then. It might well explain how the cost per mile was so relatively cheap. I think it might be different for HS2, with its green targets?

 

IIRC the ruling gradient on the original Paris Lyon LGV was 1 in 29 and they had to have a speed restriction on a couple of the summits to avoid low adhesion problems when going from 1 in 29 up to 1 in 29 down. 

 

Jamie

[Tony Teague]

First train through 'Swanbourne Station' this morning in god knows how many years - I am sure someone will tell me how many....

 

 

Amazing machine to watch - quite mesmeric! - will post some video later.

Tony

[KingEdwardII]

4 hours ago, Tony Teague said:

Amazing machine to watch

Imagine having one of those working on your model railway!! Input the track plan and the necessary track components, set it off at breakfast and come back after tea to find it all complete and gleaming!!

 

Well, anyone can dream...   ;-)

 

Yours,  Mike.

[Rugd1022]

On 06/07/2022 at 15:32, Pannier Tank said:

 

As you travel (presumably) wrong line towards the Newton Longville to Whaddon Road Bridge at the Eastern end of the former Swanbourne Sidings, I note the two lines diverge to go under different arches of the bridge. The Westbound Track appears to be laid on it's original formation but the Eastbound Track is re-aligned on to what was the entrance/exit to Swanbourne Sidings. Do you know the reason for this?

 

Well I asked the question today when I was on site and the general consensus is that it's convenient to have each line passing through a separate arch. Someone also mentioned that the line speed here will be 100mph, but we'll see.

 

 

[Pannier Tank]

On 07/07/2022 at 19:02, Rugd1022 said:

Well I asked the question today when I was on site and the general consensus is that it's convenient to have each line passing through a separate arch. Someone also mentioned that the line speed here will be 100mph, but we'll see.

 

Thank you for asking the question. I wondered if there might had been a 'clearance' issue (future proofing for future electrification) hence the divergence and the use of two arches. 

 

With regards to 100 mph running, I guess that East Bound Passenger Trains (I can't get used to the change of Up & Down Direction, it used to be down to Oxford and Up to Bletchley) would be slowing down for the approach to Bletchley Flyover at this point anyway.

 

 

 

Edited July 8, 2022 by Pannier Tank

[Tony Teague]

What was clear from conversations with the very friendly engineers on site this morning was that after completing today's work - about 800m / 1000yds of track starting from just before Swanbourne Station - they will be switching their efforts to the second, Bletchley => Bicester line and re-commencing work from just west of the Bletchley flyover.

 

It seems that they have been awaiting further ballast drops on that side of the formation, some of which was delivered today through a second train following behind the track laying machine and seen here from the Salden Bridge a mile or so east of Swanbourne:

 

 

This train was topped and tailed by 66 952 (at the west end) and 66 598 seen here (at the east / Bletchley end).

 

The New Track Construction (NTC 2) train was powered by DR78702 with 66 501 trailing at the rear and ready to haul it back towards Bletchley.

 

Tony

[melmerby]

16 hours ago, jamie92208 said:

IIRC the ruling gradient on the original Paris Lyon LGV was 1 in 29 and they had to have a speed restriction on a couple of the summits to avoid low adhesion problems when going from 1 in 29 up to 1 in 29 down. 

 

Jamie

I wonder what percentage of the energy used climbing one hill @ 1 in 29 is regenerated when coming down the 1 in 29 on the other side?

[rodent279]

1 hour ago, melmerby said:

I wonder what percentage of the energy used climbing one hill @ 1 in 29 is regenerated when coming down the 1 in 29 on the other side?

Assuming the motors are as efficient when generating as they are when motoring, then taking rectifier & inverter losses into account, I'd have thought around 80-90% of the power used going up the hill at a steady speed would be generated at the same speed down it. But there needs to be trains in the system to absorb the power, otherwise there will be no load.

Edited July 7, 2022 by rodent279

[Pete the Elaner]

21 minutes ago, rodent279 said:

Assuming the motors are as efficient when generating as they are when motoring, then taking rectifier & inverter losses into account, I'd have thought around 80-90% of the power used going up the hill at a steady speed would be generated at the same speed down it. But there needs to be trains in the system to absorb the power, otherwise there will be no load.

 

80% sounds reasonable, but the system should absorb power as well as provide it. I don't know how it all works though.

A friend of mine used to have a wind turbine in his garden. When it was working, it used to generate a surplus which the provider used to pay him for.

[jamie92208]

I'm not sure that AC regeneration was available when the first TGV's were introduced. It certainly is now probably due to advances in power electronics.  It was a lot easier on DC lines and I did hear that two trains coming down Woodhead took one up. If there weren't any trains in the system to recieve the surplus there were giant resistor grids outside the substations.

 

Jamie

Edited July 8, 2022 by jamie92208

[KingEdwardII]

10 hours ago, Tony Teague said:

awaiting further ballast drops

Great to see them using trains to deliver all that ballast - keeps a whole heap of HGVs off the roads.

 

Yours, Mike.

[Nearholmer]

When talking % efficiency of regen, it’s very important to define “% of what”, and different versions of “ what” get used in different studies/reports, so you have to be really careful when comparing them.

 

One rigorous way of looking at it is to calculate reduction in kinetic energy of the train between start and finish of defined section, and measure how much of that is returned to the line. Another useful way of looking at things, especially for metros, is to compare the amount of energy needed to run the entire service with and without regen, because that says a lot about utility bills, energy that can cause heating of air in tunnels etc. If you want to make the number sound good, or you are a traction package designer, use “% of available”, so subtract all the losses that soak-up kinetic energy first, then calculate.