Motive power for Camden Shed

[46256]

A great video Iain, nice to see your locomotives in action

 

[92220]

I’ve not been completely idle.

 

 

Haven’t completely decided on its identity yet but a few of the standard 4s were regularly passing the shed especially on ecs as far as I can see.  They all seemed to be the earlier cab type with the original double handrail design and BR2 tender.  

A few more bits of detailing and tidying to do before it can be cleaned and painted.  
 

Iain

 

 

 

[92220]

With all my attention on tracklaying and wiring etc, not much on here for a while, so here is one from the memory bank.

 

Looks like a load of people will shortly be taking delivery of what looks like a stunning rendition of a LRP Caprotti Black 5 (lights and niggles notwithstanding, but let’s not go there).

 

But happy I made this one which was a pretty significant modelling project:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Single chimney, straight steampipes unlike the Hornby one (so far….sure they will do this variant soon). 
 

I have a Comet one to build too, and still have the HRP 44687 which no doubt they will have tooled up too.  

 

Iain

 

 

Edited June 3 by 92220
Photo placement

[92220]

I took advantage of an afternoon without rain or wind to try weathering a couple of creations.  This one:

 

 

was made in 2020 lockdown from a Bachmann Jubilee mated to a Hornby rebuilt Patriot firebox, boiler smokebox and deflectors.

 

 

 

 

The weathering is stage 1 - I intend to remove some of it with T cut tomorrow, to make it look more like it’s had dirt removed.  Which it will have.   I will also do some oily bits and powders, plus clean the wheels and pickups.

 

This one harks from even longer ago - 2016 in fact.  Fairly fully Brassmastered Hornby Black 5.  BM don’t highlight the tender ledge as an issue but it is for me and it’s all gone.  
 

 

 

Again, stage 1 done and more to come I think.

 

Iain

[Barry O]

Once you have T cut it back try using a cotton wool bud with some car polish on rhe "cleaned" bits.. works wonders.

 

Baz

[92220]

Thanks Baz yep that’s what I was planning.

tbh I am gently easing back into weathering as I haven’t done any for a fair while!

Iain

[92220]

A few more bits of weathering today.  I don’t think any of these are quite finished but some might be close.  A fairly standard technique which I originally got from Tim Shackleton’s Right Track DVD, but tbh I think I need to rewatch it and dvd players are harder to come by now.  Mixtures of Matt Black 33 and Matt Leather 62 form the basic palette.  Thinned Satin Black 85 for oily axleboxes etc.

 

44741 I showed a little while ago.  I hope the weathering lifts it a bit.  
 

 

 

46251 was originally a factory “weathered” Hornby body which was pretty dreadful I think.  Part of what I did early in its construction was to remove some of that weathering and then use Klear to lift the underlying body colour.  That still isn’t a great basis but anyway. I tried with this one to keep the idea of a loco that has been cleaned a fair bit but is work stained and obviously sooty on top.  The chassis was modified a fair bit to add front brakes, but not to change the brake shoes to twins (neither of which Hornby could manage even with the updated post-2016 Princess Coronation), add a Comet bogie and Gibson wheels, plus add a new trailing truck and rear frame extensions.

 

 

 

 

 

45034 and 44875 are both Hornby bodies on Comet frames.  Bodies are modified to remove the under smokebox filler and add various details, plus the tenders have ledges removed, strengthening fillets added, side sheets thinned, lifting rings added and in the case of 44875 the rear of the welded tender has the superfluous rivets removed.  
 

 

 

 

 

A direct comparison of a SFB and LFB: 45034 has no mudhole covers and an added top feed which confused me originally. 

 

 

Iain

Edited July 18 by 92220

[92220]

46239 City of Chester and 44687 HRP Caprotti Black Five both received an overdue weathering treatment today.

 

 

 

 

 

Still some refinement to do but I hope a decent start.

 

Iain

 

Edited July 21 by 92220
Photo placement

[92220]

Does anyone know why this doesn’t work?

 

 

Iain

[Barry O]

7 hours ago, 92220 said:

Does anyone know why this doesn’t work?

 

 

Iain

That's got a case of the wotsit becoming discombobulated while performing its primary function of moving.. a pair of pliers and a few rude words will fix it.

 

Baz..

 

It's a common thing with some djh sets of BR standard valve gear..

[92220]

Thanks Baz.  I must admit that when I was building it, I thought it was both challenging to put together and actually get to work, and somewhat precarious once I had.  

 

I’ve done quite a few ex LMS frames and full kits now, which all have double slidebars and crosshead, but only a couple of BR Standards with the captive crosshead.  Most of what I’ve built is Comet in origin, so double thickness rods etc, which always feel more appropriate.   Anyway, will hopefully repair this today. 
 

Iain

[Portchullin Tatty]

13 hours ago, 92220 said:

 so double thickness rods etc, which always feel more appropriate.   

 

I laiminate single thickness etches for rods or brake levers to a piece of 5 thou brass.  It is a bit of a fag but brings things to a sensibly durable thickness.

 

Good luck on the fix.

 

 

[Jack P]

On 23/07/2024 at 10:36, 92220 said:

Does anyone know why this doesn’t work?

 

 

Iain

 

I can't see anything wrong. Has she dropped a plug?

[46256]

Hello Iain I too have found the DJH single cross head a so and so  namely on my Duke of Gloucester. I have found the Comet set up, a better option for my abilities 

 

best wishes Brian

[92220]

Thanks Mark.  That’s a sensible suggestion for any of the DJH kits I have to do.

 

Thanks Brian.  One of the easy things about the double slidebar and LMS crosshead is that you can remove and fettle until perfect.  I haven’t done a Comet BR Standard yet but I have a Brit and a DoG to do. One day.  Preceding those two on the bench might well be a set of Comet Standard 4mt valve gear and rods.

 

Having said that, Tony Wright seems to make the DJH LNER pacific set up to work faultlessly x about 250, and it must be the same construction as this one.

 

Iain

[46256]

Good morning Iain

 

On examining your valve gear,  there doesn’t seem to be a valve spindle on the end of the radius rod. ( just looked up the terms on a diagram of walschaerts valve gear) 

 

This spindle is included on the comet radius rod etch for this item. It doesn’t appear  to be the case on the DJH version.
 Inserting this spindle into the spindle cross head guide at the upper rear of the cylinders would appear to help the combination lever and union link, keep the main cross head in alignment, in the slide bar. I am going to lie down now, using all these technical terms , usually it’s a thingy into a wotsit, when I describe such matters, Barry and I are kindred spirits in this it seems.

[Michael Edge]

Problems with the DJH crosshead arrangement start with the wrong configuration of three bars, it should be a wide top bar with two narrow bars below and a T section crosshead. The L shape of the DJH one easily flips out sideways. Having the valve spindle as part of the valve rod (the Comet arrangement) isn't exactly prototypical but in mid gear it doesn't move much and it does make the gear much more stable, the DJH link bracket arrangement isn't very good either.

[92220]

Thank you, Mike.  I agree.  That is what I meant by the precarious comment earlier, although somewhat more effectively explained.  The crosshead is hardly held in the slidebars at all.  I think I am going to do a Comet replacement of this lot, but I’ll ruminate.  Pointless rebuilding something as equally flawed as the original.  
 

So why not build something else?  Something bigger.

 

I was fortunate to buy from Farren some time ago, a new model Hornby Princess loco body and complete tender.  I am going to give the loco Comet frames, and we will see whether I make a mess of it!

 

The Comet frames are designed for the older Hornby Princess I think, so needed some adjustment before starting which you can see here:

 

 

They do however, include options for the scale wheelbase or the flawed old Hornby wheelbase.  Unusually you get two identical etches not mirror images, so I had to remind myself which side to solder in the bearings on the second one.  
 

 

Rods soldered up and cleaned, then Poppy’s jig used to good effect:

 

 

Which should mean I can’t mess it up too much.

Rigged up temporarily and all seems to work smoothly

 

 

Using a big cheap Chinese motor from eBay.  I set this up for a Duchess build with a Comet GB3 gearbox, but it was too big to fit between the top edges of the driving wheels in OO.  With the Princess wheels being a scale 3” smaller in diameter, it just fits this time.  The gearbox securing z wire will need to keep the motor clear of the rear wheels, and I tested that this could in fact happen within the confines of the boiler before proceeding.

 

Central parts of the frames ie everything behind the wheels, painted.  Avid readers will probably see I am following Tony Wright’s methods.

 

 

Then fully assembled and the wheels won’t come off from this point:

 

More to come…..

 

Iain

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[92220]

I am starting to realise that I’m not great - well, maybe inconsistent is a better description - at pickups.  Some of my locos are extremely smooth at all speeds, and some much less so.  Yet the latter are fairly smooth when current is applied to the motor terminals.

 

There are some complications with the Princess chassis, principally the rear frame extensions getting very close to the rear drivers.  Usually I would leave the rear set with plenty of sideplay, given the front set have to have clearance behind the crosshead and the middle set is anchored to the gearbox.  So I was a little concerned how well this would work on my 3” minimum radius on the off scene sections.

 

 

These, however, seemed to work out ok.  
 

When I use a proprietary tender with pickups, i feel it would be a waste not to use them, but I definitely wasn’t going to use the Hornby 4pin plug to connect to the loco.

 

My solution is straight from Iain Rice’s Wild Swan book.

 

1mm inside diameter brass tube soldered to gapped copperclad and wired to the motor terminals, and a split pin.  Very fine wire so as not to introduce any tension.  A bit of heat shrink and it’s done.

 

 

 

Pack the loco body with lead sheet, and make the bogie and trailing truck.  
 

 

 

I don’t use the swinging arm for the bogie but a slightly sprung central pivot.  I prefer the road holding and the slightly steering into the curve effect, and if it’s good enough for Mike it’s good enough for me. Both bogie and trailing truck need their interaction with the frames on curves fettling.   Or more specifically, eliminating. The trailing truck on the Duchess is the same and I’ve done a few of those now.  
 

Iain

Edited October 7 by 92220
Spelling correction

[Barry O]

Coming along nicely but.. I haven't used nickel silver for pick ups in years.. its too hard and can cause sparking from the wheels. I use nice springy phosphor bronze wire..

 

ba

[92220]

Thanks Barry.  I tried phosphor bronze on a couple of locos and couldn’t get on with it all.  Probably my hamfisted efforts to be fair, but I’ve had more success with 0.45 ns wire, as recommended by Tony.

 

I do need to loco pick this one.  I have a good library for Princess Coronations but relatively sparse on the Lizzies.  This loco was originally 46211 Queen Maud.  Farren renumbered it to 46205 but I had earmarked my Edge etches for that one.  As I understand it, 46211 received a short firebox boiler at some point in the late 1950s up to withdrawal.  
 

I would like to use the green livery as I think, with the application of some Klear, it will be very good.  So I need to know a green one with this boiler and firebox.  Neither of the first two 46200 and 46201 fit, also because of their different slidebars and valve gear.  
 

So any advice welcome - does this one fit 46211?  Is it a short firebox?  If not, does it fit 46203, 46206 (which may need a coal pusher adding depending on dates?)?

 

or?

 

thanks all in advance.

 

Iain

[Michael Edge]

There was some boiler swapping but I think 6211 always had that one (no reference books with me just now). With regard to pickups turn the ends back to bear on the back face of the tyre, yours are just on the edge if the flange - you need more contact area.

[92220]

Thank you, Mike.  Much appreciated.  I’ve tried previously to do it that way but have probably misaligned some, or failed to get sufficient contact.  Bizarrely, these work well even without tender pickups. 

 

Away for a couple of days now and will attend to them when I get back.  
 

46211 looking most likely at the moment.

 

Iain

[92220]

Thanks to a bit more research and some advice from Stanley, 46211 Queen Maud it will be.  The boiler as supplied is a SFB or no combustion chamber boiler, which fits 46211 from 59 to 61 when withdrawn.  46211 was shedded at Edgehill and Crewe North mainly, apart from a couple of months at Carnforth, operating pacific diagrams into Euston and return.  Helpfully, it was also green for the duration, which I think I knew anyway but the boiler was the distinguishing feature, because on blurred 3/4 front or especially rear shots it’s hard to know which firebox is which and I could have confused 46203 in particular.  Princesses seem to have a lot more variation for a small class than the Coronations, principally because of the different boiler types, but also 3 different types of valve gear and motion bracket among the 12 (leaving aside 46202).

 

Nameplates have been ordered.

 

Princesses are also slightly more difficult to build than Coronations, I am finding.  Partly I guess having done 4 of the latter I know some of the pinchpoints.  But also, the Princess wheelbase is longer, and the cylinders further back, so:

 

2nd bogie axle is immediately alongside the cylinders

Crosshead and leading crankpin are in close proximity.

Seems as if the con rods are shorter so their swing up and down during motion is greater, and requires careful fettling to ensure con rod and slide bar don’t collide.

Slidebar support bracket is huge and is outside the slidebars rather than to the inside, so if it is to be correctly attached to the slidebars, it means probably creating a combined unit of cylinders, slidebars and support bracket to ensure alignment and “engineering robustness” is maintained.  With a Coronation, you do the same but the slidebar support bracket being behind enables the completed crossheads to slide in and out of the whole assembly.  
 

Anyway, I’m really enjoying this one.  Didn’t get all that much done yesterday, although what I did do took a while.

 

Aligning with centre of driven wheel:

 

 

This is where we’ve got to so far.  Not sure how much I’ll get done today not before I have to fly tonight, away for work for 3 weeks.  
 

 

In fact, sitting here trying to work out what I can take with me to model that will survive the travel and won’t incur suspicion from baggage scanners!

 

Iain

 

 

 

 

 

 

[farren]

Looking good, I do like the Princess royal class possible more than the Coronation, mind I did chicken out of building too many has Hornbys new model is good enough for my needs. Though I finish one kit built which runs and one in the one day box, it’s hard to justify a 6th. 
 

looking forward to your seeing results of your hard labour.