Heljan LNER Tango 2-8-0

[robmcg]

Picked up my Tango 63982 last week from Hattons and was therefore able to request sight and testing of two models. Both locos showed no sign of any damage whatsoever and after

test running both decided that there was nothing to choose between the two, settled on the first example. To date, after running in on my rolling road followed by continual

running with a twenty five wagon load on the club layout, can declare myself very happy with the loco. I appreciate that I am fortunate in being only 10 minutes drive from

Hattons, thus giving me the opportunity to inspect before buying but question if the type of packing used is up to the journey half way around the world to be followed by

further journeys either within the UK or across the globe to destinations as far away again.

 

Hattons packaging is usually excellent, so is Rails,  carton with internal cushioning, air bubble cells for Hattons, shredded paper for Rails, I don't think they can be faulted.

 

The fault in most cases is shoddy assembly which presumably a function of price and the degree of failure/returns.

 

My failure rate with Heljan has been 100% fail for the last three purchases, two are currently 'in the mail', we shall see.

 

I have kept all three Heljan 'failures' so apart from my venting here they don't know they have failed. Posting a model back to the UK is a pain. A colossal waste of time and energy for me and the shop.  I am going to weather my O2 to cover my repair work. At £89 I am not seriously complaining, but WOULD like an undamaged model some day.  please

[robmcg]

No, I don’t think you are nit-picking. Heaven knows, we pay enough for these things. It must be difficult to monitor output from China, especially for Hornby, which uses something like half-a-dozen factories. What Heljan’s arrangements are, I don’t know but it seems that after problems emerged with the L&B locos, another factory was employed to do the job. Having said that, other producers manage to keep a tight enough control to ensure a good product. As has been said repeatedly, Hornby needs to take more care and Heljan a lot more care.

 

Should they be more like Bachmann and take the time to get things right? 

 

Funny you should mention Bachmann,

 

They stand alone among the big manufacturers of RTR 00 with a good record for arriving here undamaged, they alone appear to have it sorted.

 

Hornby used to be good. I preferred their 4MT Standard 4-6-0 to the Bachmann but try to get a s/h Hornby one from the UK and it will arrive in bits, believe me I have tried, and even had Hattons special attention applied, but without transit brackets of that model and the Schools, forget undamaged.

 

Actually I feel like buying a Bachmann model just because they are sometimes on special and joy of joys they always arrive in one piece!   

 

oh, unless they are a s/h Bahmann 4MT 2-6-4T with detail on......   

 

edit;

 

I'm thinking of taking bets on the two O2s which are to arrive here in the next few days. Who among you would bet the house on them being undamaged? 

Edited May 31, 2018 by robmcg

[Steamport Southport]

I'm surprised you get them at all seeing as New Zealand doesn't exist. 

 

 

http://worldmapswithout.nz/

 

 

 

 

 

Jason

[robmcg]

I'm surprised you get them at all seeing as New Zealand doesn't exist. 

 

 

http://worldmapswithout.nz/

 

 

 

 

 

Jason

 

 

Thankyou for that. We enjoy it here. <g>

 

I have now forgiven Heljan having retouched my repair work with matt paint...

 

 

I'll call it partial weathering.  

[robmcg]

For those who cannot decide whether engines look best with rods up or down,

 

what a lovely model!

 

I take back anything I said which detracts from Heljan's flawless reputation....

 

 

 

A much better day today!   

[No Decorum]

Funny you should mention Bachmann,

 

They stand alone among the big manufacturers of RTR 00 with a good record for arriving here undamaged, they alone appear to have it sorted.

 

Hornby used to be good. I preferred their 4MT Standard 4-6-0 to the Bachmann but try to get a s/h Hornby one from the UK and it will arrive in bits, believe me I have tried, and even had Hattons special attention applied, but without transit brackets of that model and the Schools, forget undamaged.

 

Actually I feel like buying a Bachmann model just because they are sometimes on special and joy of joys they always arrive in one piece!   

 

oh, unless they are a s/h Bahmann 4MT 2-6-4T with detail on......   

 

edit;

 

I'm thinking of taking bets on the two O2s which are to arrive here in the next few days. Who among you would bet the house on them being undamaged? 

 

I don’t think I would bet a rusty 7p coin!

[tractionman]

Picked up my Tango 63982 last week from Hattons and was therefore able to request sight and testing of two models. Both locos showed no sign of any damage whatsoever and after

test running both decided that there was nothing to choose between the two, settled on the first example. To date, after running in on my rolling road followed by continual

running with a twenty five wagon load on the club layout, can declare myself very happy with the loco. I appreciate that I am fortunate in being only 10 minutes drive from

Hattons, thus giving me the opportunity to inspect before buying but question if the type of packing used is up to the journey half way around the world to be followed by

further journeys either within the UK or across the globe to destinations as far away again.

 

My 02/3 arrived today, the LNER #3965 version, superbly packed by Hatton's, very well cushioned in bubblewrap inside a large box.

 

Taking off the Heljan packaging, nothing awry with the loco, looks stunning--has completed a circuit on my (uneven/temporary) track in the loft with no diffs, even the 'ski-jump' was negotiated with ease, very smooth running and quiet--for £89 too--absolutely chuffed.

 

cheers,

 

Keith

[robmcg]

My 02/3 arrived today, the LNER #3965 version, superbly packed by Hatton's, very well cushioned in bubblewrap inside a large box.

 

Taking off the Heljan packaging, nothing awry with the loco, looks stunning--has completed a circuit on my (uneven/temporary) track in the loft with no diffs, even the 'ski-jump' was negotiated with ease, very smooth running and quiet--for £89 too--absolutely chuffed.

 

cheers,

 

Keith

 

My second of the £89 Hattons arrived this morning, also well-cushioned an undamaged in its packaging, just like the last one, and I am just finishing a cup of coffee before opening the actual model!    

 

Ah the tension!   

 

edit ;  photos to follow

Edited June 1, 2018 by robmcg

[robmcg]

here are the results, I will let the pictures tell the story, 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

nice model, pity about the lamp iron, will put a lamp there perhaps, it's too small a thing for me anyway to replace/repair,  just kind of annoying.   As far as I can tell from shop ad photos this is a common fault with these Heljan models.  Other things I notice in some shop photos are warped running plates,    I guess there is only one way to be sure than that would be, as others have written,  to sight before you buy.

 

One model to come ('British Railways version)

 

cheers

[robmcg]

I'm curious, when Tony Wright was answering the concerns expressed around message No.380 about a possible 'bad batch' of O2s, following some buyers' experiences with failed valve gear and similar, he wrote that he had handled three models of the type and they were all perfect (although I hesitate to say that was his exact wording), 

 

and while I no doubt could ask him exactly what his experience was, and having looked at the photos in ads, if he got three undamaged models I think he was very lucky.

 

This kind of damage, missing, bent parts, is I think part and parcel of modern RTR.  I no longer expect a model to leave the factory without bits missing or broken, and for me, to receive an undamaged model is now pretty much a distant memory. Well, I got a Bachmann D11/2 a couple of weeks ago, perfect, but the other EIGHT I have opened in the last few weeks, only one other was perfect, a Hornby/TMC 1960 Duke R3236 71000.

 

Admittedly a single lamp iron broken off and missing is a small thing, no pun intended, but it seems so unnecessary!

 

 

Stay tuned and in about a week I will open my fourth Heljan O2.  Who knows, it may arrive undamaged.  The sample used in Hattons AND Rails ads had all three front buffer lamp irons intact and vertical.  I personally find it hard to believe that such a model exists.

 

 

edit;

 

For the edification of all concerned with the quality of RTR models,

 

here below are mildly enhanced but unadulterated images of the 63954 'British Railways' version of the Heljan O2 2-8-0.

 

Hattons

 

 

Rails

 

 

I have bought one of these models.

 

In the immortal words of one Arthur Daley, "What can possibly go wrong?"

 

 

Now moving quickly along, I have taken the liberty of adulterating the Rails ad picture just a teensy little bit...

 

 

will remove if required.

 

I am now also inspired to have a go at weathering at least one of my collection of O2s, and genuinely do like the models, detail assembly issues being for the moment accepted as part and parcel of my models at least. On the subject of paint finish, I genuinely like the factory pristine look too. It is exactly how I remember real steam locos from the 50s and 60s when they were a week or two ex-works, or (rarely) cleaned.

 

Still in the same vein, I photographed steam locos from c1959 on with a Box Brownie then an Agfa Clack, being aged 8 to 12, usually with marginal and doubtful success, so made this pic also from a Rails pic to celebrate the optimism of youth, taking photos of a steam engine in pouring rain.

 

 

I had better start taking my pills again!

 

Edited June 2, 2018 by robmcg

[John Isherwood]

I'm curious, when Tony Wright was answering the concerns expressed around message No.380 about a possible 'bad batch' of O2s, following some buyers' experiences with failed valve gear and similar, he wrote that he had handled three models of the type and they were all perfect (although I hesitate to say that was his exact wording), 

 

and while I no doubt could ask him exactly what his experience was, and having looked at the photos in ads, if he got three undamaged models I think he was very lucky.

 

This kind of damage, missing, bent parts, is I think part and parcel of modern RTR.  I no longer expect a model to leave the factory without bits missing or broken, and for me, to receive an undamaged model is now pretty much a distant memory. Well, I got a Bachmann D11/2 a couple of weeks ago, perfect, but the other EIGHT I have opened in the last few weeks, only one other was perfect, a Hornby/TMC 1960 Duke R3236 71000.

 

Admittedly a single lamp iron broken off and missing is a small thing, no pun intended, but it seems so unnecessary!

 

Img_9849a_r1200.jpg

 

Stay tuned and in about a week I will open my fourth Heljan O2.  Who knows, it may arrive undamaged.  The sample used in Hattons AND Rails ads had all three front buffer lamp irons intact and vertical.  I personally find it hard to believe that such a model exists.

 

 

edit;

 

For the edification of all concerned with the quality of RTR models,

 

here below are mildly enhanced but unadulterated images of the 63954 'British Railways' version of the Heljan O2 2-8-0.

 

Hattons

 

63954_O2_3911_3001271_Qty1_1a_r1200.jpg

 

Rails

 

63954_O2_IMG_4764IA-20-01-16ab_r1200.jpg

 

I have bought one of these models.

 

In the immortal words of one Arthur Daley, "What can possibly go wrong?"

 

 

Now moving quickly along, I have taken the liberty of adulterating the Rails ad picture just a teensy little bit...

 

63954_O2_Country_4abcdefg_r1200.jpg

 

will remove if required.

 

I am now also inspired to have a go at weathering at least one of my collection of O2s, and genuinely do like the models, detail assembly issues being for the moment accepted as part and parcel of my models at least. On the subject of paint finish, I genuinely like the factory pristine look too. It is exactly how I remember real steam locos from the 50s and 60s when they were a week or two ex-works, or (rarely) cleaned.

 

Still in the same vein, I photographed steam locos from c1959 on with a Box Brownie then an Agfa Clack, being aged 8 to 12, usually with marginal and doubtful success, so made this pic also from a Rails pic to celebrate the optimism of youth, taking photos of a steam engine in pouring rain.

 

63948_O2_shed_rain_3abcdef1_r1200.jpg

 

I had better start taking my pills again!

 

Rob,

 

I can't help but think that your location, and the extended delivery journey to which most / all of your purchases are subjected, MUST have some impact (!) on the condition in which you receive them.

 

I do not purchase in anything like the volume that you do, and those that are delivered to me by mail only travel a short distance within Cornwall, but I cannot recall a single item that has arrived in a damaged or incomplete condition.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[adb968008]

Rob,

 

I can't help but think that your location, and the extended delivery journey to which most / all of your purchases are subjected, MUST have some impact (!) on the condition in which you receive them.

 

I do not purchase in anything like the volume that you do, and those that are delivered to me by mail only travel a short distance within Cornwall, but I cannot recall a single item that has arrived in a damaged or incomplete condition.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

Oh I don’t know, i’m In South London and I buy in similar volume to Rob.

I’ve had a few have dings on the way.

 

The packaging makes a lot of difference. Last week my HUOs arrived, and the final leg of their journey was by airmail, over a 2m fence and a bounce landing 3m from that fence...followed by an afternoons drenching on one of the UKs finest wet days this year...

Result not a mark, blemish nor single piece of any of the 50 odd parts that make those wagons were damp nor out of place.

Two weeks ago my 50007 was heading back to Cornwall as a result of Royal Mail Rash to its body.

Edited June 2, 2018 by adb968008

[robmcg]

Rob,

 

I can't help but think that your location, and the extended delivery journey to which most / all of your purchases are subjected, MUST have some impact (!) on the condition in which you receive them.

 

I do not purchase in anything like the volume that you do, and those that are delivered to me by mail only travel a short distance within Cornwall, but I cannot recall a single item that has arrived in a damaged or incomplete condition.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

 

I agree the handling by shops and airports may be a factor, but the actual transhipment from one vehicle to another, as in being thrown or mishandled, who knows?

 

The packaging by the shops is excellent.  I am not the only person to have received faulty O2s, some of those in shop advertisement pictures are faulty.

 

Both of my O2s were damaged in a way which I judge to have been done during manufacture.

 

 

I forgive Heljan and Hattons through, at £89 the model runs beautifully and looks fantastic.

 

I added the lamp in the picture below in an improbable position because that's where the missing lamp holder 'was'.

 

None of my models have received to my knowledge any mis-handling of the type described by adb968008.  All instances of damage are of a type 'commonly' experienced by buyers of Heljan 47XXs., O2s., and Hornby A3s and such as O1s (notorious for broken smokebox dart handles), but I cannot measure the exact nature of my luck, as it were.  Perhaps with four out of four damaged Heljan recent purchases I am unlucky, where previously with Garratts, all good, I was lucky..

 

Some would barely count a lamp iron missing as damaged?

 

 

lovely indeed.

 

 

cheers

 

addendum my brother also has a model railway here in NZ and has received an O2 late crest stepped tender, undamaged....  

 

I think there is a considerable degree of luck involved here.  As mentioned I have one more O2 coming.

Edited June 2, 2018 by robmcg

[robmcg]

I would like to add to the above, that both the O2s I have received have tidy chimneys.  Rumours of dog-chewed chimneys are nothing but heinous malicious and unfounded !

 

I also like to re-iterate that the mechanisms and general quality of these models is very good, it goes without saying, 'in my experience'.  Dead-smooth from new, well-geared, marvellous.

[micklner]

I would like to add to the above, that both the O2s I have received have tidy chimneys.  Rumours of dog-chewed chimneys are nothing but heinous malicious and unfounded !

 

I also like to re-iterate that the mechanisms and general quality of these models is very good, it goes without saying, 'in my experience'.  Dead-smooth from new, well-geared, marvellous.

 

Sorry wrong on most counts , the Chimney mine (ok secondhand) was a total mess it looked like it had been removed from the moulding sprue with bolt cutters , its the wrong shape anyway and a Brass B1 version has replaced it. The valve gear on mine disintegrated with the slightest pressure on the Radius Rod area, the rivets popped out of the parts. This had a total rebuild x 2. I presume yours had handrails on the Tender all the same length, non plastic handrail knobs and no gaps in the Rear Coal Plate on the Tender ? 

On your earlier posts you were showing bits that had fallen off .

[robmcg]

... I presume yours had handrails on the Tender all the same length, non plastic handrail knobs and no gaps in the Rear Coal Plate on the Tender ? 

...

 

Different length handrails on tender, but for all I know the prototypes also had different length handrails. In my experience of real steam railways of the era these things did happen sometimes.

 

I don't know about the rear coal plate, and gaps therein.

 

Here FWIW is my s/h LNER O2 3965  edited picture, will remove if required.  Front guard irons lasted until the early 50s did they not?

 

My additions are blackened handrails, a lamp, guard irons, coal, and general messing around minor effects.

 

 

I hope my pictures and experiences have had some value, I apologise for having been a little annoyed by what are really quite minor details.

 

Here are two pics I made today, quite minor editing really, will remove if required.

 

 

 

 

 

What superb models!   Who could ever doubt it?

 

Will leave everyone alone now 

Edited June 3, 2018 by robmcg

[Francis deWeck]

Well, mine arrived packaged as shown earlier in the threads. Put on rolling road, superb running characteristics. Nothing visually to carp about. Put Dapol Imperium1 21 pin decoder in the loco - strange decoder connection, with fine wires to be broken, but it went on ok. Test run quite fine and I expect the loco to improve with running. The only carp here is that the internal wiring/pcb config must be wrong as the fwd direction cmd result in a reverse. Easily changed in setting up the decoder (Job to do). The tender isn't a lot to write home about, nor is the connection to the loco, but a worthy addition to the eight wheel family. Temptation is high to get another one!

[Silver Sidelines]

Evening Apollo

 

You have a lot to answer for!!

 

Mine arrived from Hattons on Friday!

 

.... a bargain though at £89.        .....Points score - 9/10...

 

This is the first Heljan Steam outline that I have purchased.  Thank you Hattons - mine arrived intact (three lamp irons as well).

 

It was a very stiff runner but after what must now be over half an hour of forwards and backwards use - it is beginning to run rather well.

 

Yes there is a bit out of the top of the chimney - I might need to get a file out on it - very bizarre.

 

A bigger concern was the boiler handrail which was bowed upwards in the middle of the boiler.  I have massaged it and shoved it down and it is now straight!  Don't know what that was about ( I dread to think).  I have been quite brutal so have I bent the stanchions or are they moveable within the mounting holes?

 

Compared to Hornby and Bachmann the model seems fragile and poorly finished  For example the water filler on the tender seems to me to be a plastic moulding straight off the sprue with no paint.  The bare metal axles are bit old fashioned as are the bright polished metal handrails - I think both Bachmann and Hornby were fitting darkened metal rails before the end of the last century.

 

Well worth £89.00 but not a lot more.

 

Ray

Edited June 4, 2018 by Silver Sidelines

[jonny777]

After reading some of the most recent comments on the condition of the loco as received from Hattons, I was rather afraid of what I might discover on opening the packaging. 

 

I needn't have worried, because apart from one slightly bent lamp iron the loco seemed to be in excellent condition. As I intend to give it a good weathering and make it look as though it has done a few years hard work since last overhaul, I doubt that a bent lamp iron was unknown on full size freight locos in the late 1950s. 

[robmcg]

After reading some of the most recent comments on the condition of the loco as received from Hattons, I was rather afraid of what I might discover on opening the packaging. 

 

I needn't have worried, because apart from one slightly bent lamp iron the loco seemed to be in excellent condition. As I intend to give it a good weathering and make it look as though it has done a few years hard work since last overhaul, I doubt that a bent lamp iron was unknown on full size freight locos in the late 1950s. 

 

I look forward to seeing photos of a weathered O2, I have similar intentions. Around about page  of the 'Wright Writes' thread there are about a dozen pics of the real thing mostly in late BR days if that's any help.

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/64295-wright-writes/page-7

Edited June 6, 2018 by robmcg

[Guardian]

It's a gamble and I have to say I no longer open boxes with anything other than trepidation and may soon stop buying new models. Except with a high chance of necessary repairs. Six out of my last six requiring work, (3 Hornby 3 Heljan) sometimes beyond my capability

It seems that quality control is an issue these days. I made similar experiences with British and continental models:

 

Hornby LNER J50 - bad runner, stuttering. Lifted central axle by fitting of 0.1 mm spring bronze sheet, re-assembly of motor, gear and wheels. Body full of oil. Cleaned.

 

Oxford Rail GWR Dean Goods - tender pickups and speaker improperly fitted - fixed.

 

Hornby LNER Q6 - inconstant runner out of the box, loco pickups improperly fitted, fixed.

 

Bachmann GWR Collett Goods - bad runner out of the box, required re-assembly of gear and wheels. Tender wheelsets wobbling. Requires spares.

 

Roco DRG class 85 - defect in paint work (spalling of varnish of metal body) - needs to be returned.

 

Gützold DR class 18 - damaged loco-tender connection and damaged varnish due to improper packaging in box - returned.

 

Trix DRG class 94 - wobbling runner - fixed by reassembly of wheels, pickups were not fitted properly.

 

Brawa Bavarian P 3/5H - can lighting LED defect - not resolved, disassembly of cab too risky as this most likely causes break-off of handrails, tubes etc.

 

Not all models acquired this year are affected, but this is the majority...

 

Cheers

Mark

[robmcg]

Pleased to say that my third O2 arrived this morning and looks great,  being the early BR version, no front number plate, full script on tender and so on.

 

Arrived with usual Hattons packaging,  where more often than not the model's box is hard against two sides of the delivery box,

 

 

all looked good

 

 

and was

 

 

all details intact

 

 

The moulding lines look bad but are all but invisible to the naked eye, camera effects are cruel. 

 

 

Good stuff Heljan, thank you, it runs perfectly straight from the box too.

 

Edited June 9, 2018 by robmcg

[Francis deWeck]

Well, mine arrived packaged as shown earlier in the threads. Put on rolling road, superb running characteristics. Nothing visually to carp about. Put Dapol Imperium1 21 pin decoder in the loco - strange decoder connection, with fine wires to be broken, but it went on ok. Test run quite fine and I expect the loco to improve with running. The only carp here is that the internal wiring/pcb config must be wrong as the fwd direction cmd result in a reverse. Easily changed in setting up the decoder (Job to do). The tender isn't a lot to write home about, nor is the connection to the loco, but a worthy addition to the eight wheel family. Temptation is high to get another one!

A further comment, if at all necessary:

 

After some continuous running in the  loco has performed virtuously, no signature jerkiness, smooth starts and stops, and it doesn't have problems on imperfective trackwork (read Shirebrook style). It seems to find the Imperium1 decoder a good companion, reversing the direction was simple as stated. Only carp is that the information sheet (such as it is) is almost a complete waste of time and Heljan could do well to follow the latest example of Bachmann. What I have found as an aside, is that the packaging is really useful when used to access the body/chassis securing screws. Very effective bit of design work. Looking forward to the early version of this class.

[jonny777]

I look forward to seeing photos of a weathered O2, I have similar intentions. Around about page  of the 'Wright Writes' thread there are about a dozen pics of the real thing mostly in late BR days if that's any help.

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/64295-wright-writes/page-7

 

 

Thanks. That is a very useful group of photos. I had not seen those before. 

 

My distant memories of the locos on Frodingham ore trains suggest that the Grantham ones were usually kept in decent condition (for freight locos), and certainly better than the Colwick O1/O4s which appeared on the trains from Belvoir Junc; and far far better than any WDs which came by. 

[Guardian]

All happy O2 owners

 

Just a quick question: do the O2/3 and the O2/4 (LNER versions) models have the same boiler? From the pictures in the inet, I cannot see any difference.

 

Regards

Mark