LNER B15 (NER Class S2) 4-6-0 -

[Worsdell forever]

What a line up that would be!

 

Which unfortunately couldn't be done as the last B14 went in 1931

[ArthurK]

 

Dare I say (yes, I dare), I have also just started my first ex-GC locomotive model; an LNER B4 - Immingham. This kit is from a different supplier but is also a really lovely piece of etching. You know I might just set out to build or convert all of the 'B's, from B1 to B19, hoping that Arthur and John Bateson (the producer of the GC kits) can fill in all of the gaps not covered by the r-t-r models (B1 and B17).

 

What a line up that would be!

 

I once worked out - musing over a glass of wine - that Hull and Hessle Haven (my layout) was probably the only place on the old LNER where all of the 'A' classes could be seen, though over a period of time. So the Pacifics A1, 2, 3 and 4, could have been seen and the 'A' tanks A5, 6, 7 and 8 could also have all been seen. I'll probably not live long enough to build anything like the selection of locos which could be seen at this place in 1950.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

All the A classes could be seen at Darlington and not necessarily on visits to works.

 

Returning to Hessle you havem't mentioned th GNR locos including the C1 atlantics (still arould in BR) and the C12s at Botanic J6s from Doncaster - not to mention the three F4s from the GE. Just to confuse things further there were LMS turns from Sheffield with the Compounds mainly in charge. I also saw 7Fs in Dairycotes for a weekend stay. You have made no mention of the D48s which abounded in the Hull area.

 

Sorry Mike you will never make everything that passed through Hessle but by early BR some of those mentioned would have been thinned out.

 

ArthurK

[ArthurK]

 

Which unfortunately couldn't be done as the last B14 went in 1931

What is often overlooked is that one B13 (761) lasted into BR days. It had been conerted to a Counter pressure locomotive for test with other engines with the dynamometer car in tow. It was sent to the new Rugby testing plant, not used there and subsequently cut up at Crewe in 1951.

 

Arthurk

[Worsdell forever]

 

What is often overlooked is that one B13 (761) lasted into BR days. It had been conerted to a Counter pressure locomotive for test with other engines with the dynamometer car in tow. It was sent to the new Rugby testing plant, not used there and subsequently cut up at Crewe in 1951.

 

Arthurk

Yes, it survived long enough, I think it was just the B14s that went before the B1s arrived.

[ArthurK]

 

Yes, it survived long enough, I think it was just the B14s that went before the B1s arrived.

 

 

Yes, the B14s were gone by 1931. Most of the B13s had gone by 1932 but some lingered on until 1938 leaving only 761. By that time it was not in general use having been transferred to service stock in 1934.

 

ArthurK

[micknich2003]

You can also model all of the "Atlantic" tender engines, that is apart from C10 and C11 the NBRly versions. An interesting variation on the "Atlantic" theme would be the ex NERly Class C9.

 For something completly different there is also the short term loan American "S160" 2-8-0's and also, the "USA" tanks, though I'm uncertain if they were ever steamed in these parts. Then of course during the last war, York had several Southern 4-6-0's on loan, they would have worked into Hull. As for ex GWRly types, I'm sure you can forget it. Mick.

[Pebbles]

What no C8?

[mikemeg]

 

All the A classes could be seen at Darlington and not necessarily on visits to works.

 

Returning to Hessle you havem't mentioned th GNR locos including the C1 atlantics (still arould in BR) and the C12s at Botanic J6s from Doncaster - not to mention the three F4s from the GE. Just to confuse things further there were LMS turns from Sheffield with the Compounds mainly in charge. I also saw 7Fs in Dairycotes for a weekend stay. You have made no mention of the D48s which abounded in the Hull area.

 

Sorry Mike you will never make everything that passed through Hessle but by early BR some of those mentioned would have been thinned out.

 

ArthurK

 

And then there were the ex L&Y 'relics' which would work into Hull from Goole, not to mention the ex-GC classes which also worked in from Mexborough, Colwick, etc.

 

Then, of course, there were the weekend excursions to Bridlington and Scarborough which would bring the LMS classes through Hull.

 

Yes, Arthur, you're right; I'll never make them all but then what a place this must have been in 1950.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

[clecklewyke]

what a place this must have been in 1950.

Yes, Hull's railways must have been amazing in some respects but not in others. Imagine it from the railwaymen's perspective, working with archaic, filthy equipment, constantly breaking down and mostly kept going by their hard labour. Then consider their own lives after the war - disability, bereavement, rationing, hunger, the ancient centre and the docks devastated by bombing - worse than Coventry but hardly acknowledged.

 

Aye, Hull were a grand place in 1950!

 

(Sorry, couldn't find my rose-tinted glasses this morning! I'll explain when I see you next, Mike)

 

But that B15. Fabulous! Many thanks for to brightening my day.

 

Ian

[mikemeg]

A little more progress on the B15. The tender is now completed, apart from the handrails. The loco now has all of the platework on, with the footsteps having been fitted. I also turned up a snifting valve, as this loco is modelled in its later LNER condition. So just the front buffer housings to add and then the final detailing - handrails, various filler caps and lubricators, vacuum pipe, etc.

 

The cab roof isn't yet fixed until the backhead and cab glazing is added.

 

Soldering those front steps to the slidebars wasn't the easiest thing I've ever done but I did manage not to lock up the crossheads on the slidebars and everything still moves freely.

 

Now I think the model does look like a B15 and, needless to say,I am reasonably pleased with this one.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

[MarkC]

WOW! That is gorgeous. You have every right to be pleased with it, Mike.

 

Mark

[Portchullin Tatty]

That does look rather purposeful doesn't?

 

Were they successful locos?  I more or less don't know about them and whilst the NER/LNER are not really my area, I am surprised not to!

[mikemeg]

WOW! That is gorgeous. You have every right to be pleased with it, Mike.

 

Mark

 

Mark,

 

Thanks for the kind comment. Arthur has been on with this one for quite a time but I think you'll agree, it was worth the wait. He is still refining the design and I'm not certain when Arthur plans to release this; perhaps, Arthur, you might update this thread with the likely date.

 

You never know, Arthur might sell one or two of these for this prototype is just about as lovely a 4-6-0 as you'll ever see.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

[mikemeg]

That does look rather purposeful doesn't?

 

Were they successful locos?  I more or less don't know about them and whilst the NER/LNER are not really my area, I am surprised not to!

 

I don't think that the NER S2's/LNER B15's could be said to have been successful. They were quite quickly superceded by the NER S3's/LNER B16's which were more powerful and more numerous. During LNER days, with a surfeit of B16's and K3's, especially during the years of the depression, the B15's were largely used on freight duties and, because the boiler was unique to the B15 - unlike many NER classes which had interchangeable boilers - many were withdrawn in the 1930's as the boilers became life expired.

 

The war did give the last survivors a stay of execution but all had gone by 1948. Strangely, these 4-6-0's were outlasted by the earlier NER Class R/LNER D20 4-4-0's which lasted until 1958 yet which pre-dated the B15's by ten years or more.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

[ArthurK]

Mark,

 

Thanks for the kind comment. Arthur has been on with this one for quite a time but I think you'll agree, it was worth the wait. He is still refining the design and I'm not certain when Arthur plans to release this; perhaps, Arthur, you might update this thread with the likely date.

 

You never know, Arthur might sell one or two of these for this prototype is just about as lovely a 4-6-0 as you'll ever see.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

I have every intention of getting this on the market as soon as I can. It has taken me a lot of time and effort to get it to th state that you see in Mike's photo. We have had a number of problems with the chassis on this one, especially with the slidebar bracket which is very close to the front driving wheel and also the cosmetic spring design. In the past I have always gone out of my way to design my kits so that the wheels can be dropped out of the frames and this has been largely successful. However because of the shape of the frame cut-outs on the front two axles (with coil springs) there is little or no space to add a proper spacer to which the springs can be attached. The ones that I did add were far too small and flimsy. In Mike's case some of these got in the way of the gearbox. So, very reluctantly, I have decided that making the wheels sets removable on this one is too big a compromise to the design. I have redesigned this one with the comsmetic springs as part of the frames (as many others do). The result will mean the the axleboxes will be trapped within the frames but CSBs or Compensation is still available.

 

I would very much like comments on that one.

 

In conclusion the new design will be with the etchers along with th W 4-6-0T and other new developments by the end of this week. If all goes well the B15 should be available mid year. That's about five years late but it won't be released until I am completly satified with it.

 

ArthurK

[mikemeg]

Yes, Hull's railways must have been amazing in some respects but not in others. Imagine it from the railwaymen's perspective, working with archaic, filthy equipment, constantly breaking down and mostly kept going by their hard labour. Then consider their own lives after the war - disability, bereavement, rationing, hunger, the ancient centre and the docks devastated by bombing - worse than Coventry but hardly acknowledged.

 

Aye, Hull were a grand place in 1950!

 

(Sorry, couldn't find my rose-tinted glasses this morning! I'll explain when I see you next, Mike)

 

But that B15. Fabulous! Many thanks for to brightening my day.

 

Ian

 

Ian,

 

What I said was that in 1950, Hull was an incredible place to see an enormous variety of motive power. I was not commenting on the privations of post war Britain or on the working conditions on British Railways, which were probably appalling.

 

While the above comment may be entirely accurate re the extent of and the aftermath of the blitz in Hull and on the social and working conditons of that time, the comment, above, is completely out of context to the one I made, though I do thank you for the kind comments re the B15.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

[mikemeg]

After a day or two working on another of Arthur's kits, time to return to this B15 and complete the detailing. It's always the worst part of any build, adding all of these tiny details and one can spend days doing this with very little to show. Conversely, the absence of those small details is instantly obvious, so it has to be done.

 

I've now finshed the 3940 gallon tender, apart from the sprung buffer heads which can now be added as the whole thing has been primed with Haldfords grey primer.

 

Now to add all of those fiddling details to the locomotive.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

[mikemeg]

While I have been detailing this model, I have also been completing another trial build of one of Arthur's kits. So apart from the rear brake linkage and the mechanical lubricator, which will have to be made from scratch, this model is now complete.

 

So Arthur's North Eastern kit for the NER Class S2/LNER Class B15.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

[New Haven Neil]

You can also model all of the "Atlantic" tender engines, that is apart from C10 and C11 the NBRly versions. An interesting variation on the "Atlantic" theme would be the ex NERly Class C9.

 For something completly different there is also the short term loan American "S160" 2-8-0's and also, the "USA" tanks, though I'm uncertain if they were ever steamed in these parts. Then of course during the last war, York had several Southern 4-6-0's on loan, they would have worked into Hull. As for ex GWRly types, I'm sure you can forget it. Mick.

 

 

Caution, thread drift.  USA tanks were used by the NCB in Northumberland, I have an EE Smith print of one allegedly at Backworth, although it doesn't look like Backworth, and there's another in a book I have.  End thread drift.

 

Isn't that B15 simply gorgeous....

[Worsdell forever]

 

You can also model all of the "Atlantic" tender engines, that is apart from C10 and C11 the NBRly versions. An interesting variation on the "Atlantic" theme would be the ex NERly Class C9.

 For something completly different there is also the short term loan American "S160" 2-8-0's and also, the "USA" tanks, though I'm uncertain if they were ever steamed in these parts. Then of course during the last war, York had several Southern 4-6-0's on loan, they would have worked into Hull. As for ex GWRly types, I'm sure you can forget it. Mick.

 

 

Caution, thread drift.  USA tanks were used by the NCB in Northumberland, I have an EE Smith print of one allegedly at Backworth, although it doesn't look like Backworth, and there's another in a book I have.  End thread drift.

 

Isn't that B15 simply gorgeous....

 

Some Southern 4-6-0s made it to Tyneside, sheded at Heaton...

 

Anyway, back to the proper engine... Yes, that B15 does look simply gorgeous. 

[mikemeg]

Some Southern 4-6-0s made it to Tyneside, sheded at Heaton...

 

Anyway, back to the proper engine... Yes, that B15 does look simply gorgeous. 

 

I can't say that this is the easiest of Arthur's kits for it is not. But with a little care and attention to the quite tight clearances, this is eminently buildable (is that a valid word?). This was built with a minimum of instructions, so did take a little longer. And I completely redid the chassis as the first attempt simply didn't work properly, though this is why these test builds are undertaken.

 

So, for anyone with a reasonable proficiency in kit building, this should certainly be well within their scope.

 

And it does build into a lovely model of an elegant and quite beautiful prototype.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

[Wizard of the Moor]

And I completely redid the chassis as the first attempt simply didn't work properly, though this is why these test builds are undertaken.

Apologies if I've simply missed this earlier in the thread, Mike, but what changes to the CSB arrangement did you make in the second chassis?

[mikemeg]

Apologies if I've simply missed this earlier in the thread, Mike, but what changes to the CSB arrangement did you make in the second chassis?

 

No, you didn't miss this; I didn't make any mention. The CSB fulcrums, on this model are constrained, front and back, by the placing of the frame spacers (back) and the motion plate (front). On the first chassis, I fitted the outermost CSB fulcrums inside these constraints, with the result that the front and rear sets of driving wheels were sprung far too hard.

 

On the second chassis, I filed slots in these constraining mainframe components so that the CSB fulcrums could be placed further from the axles, thus softening the springing. This was only a matter of a couple of mm a time, but it does make a very considerable difference i.e. a spring distance of 20 mm extended to 24 mm.

 

Also, Arthur and I had a lot of discussion as to how to represent and fit the motion plate and the front set of brakes on this chassis. On the first attempt, I cut away part of the motion plate to try and improve clearances between it and the front set of driving wheels. On the second chassis, I used the motion plate, as etched, and moved it forward, within the mainframes, by 0.5 mm.

 

Most of these changes and modifications have now been incorporated into the design of the etched chassis. All of this is made necessary because of the very tight clearances on the prototype, especially the slide bars and front driving wheel crankpins, which result in similarly tight clearances on the model, especially in P4, though not exclusively in P4.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

[Will L]

.. I fitted the outermost CSB fulcrums inside these constraints, with the result that the front and rear sets of driving wheels were sprung far too hard.

 

On the second chassis, I filed slots in these constraining mainframe components so that the CSB fulcrums could be placed further from the axles, thus softening the springing. This was only a matter of a couple of mm a time, but it does make a very considerable difference i.e. a spring distance of 20 mm extended to 24 mm....

Haven't you had a proper fulcrum plot done, CSB fulcrum point placement is not very intuitive and its better not to guess.

 

For the nice even 7' by 7' driving wheel wheel base on the B15 two possibilities would be  (in mm F=Fulcrum  A= axle)

 

F-10-A-13-F-15-A-15-F-13-A-10-F

or

F-12-A-12-F-16-A-16-F-12-A-12-F

 

Will

[Wizard of the Moor]

Thanks, Mike, that makes sense.