Wright writes.....

[robertcwp]

I reckon it is the approach to Gainsborough Lea Road. There was a 15mph restriction through the station and a siding south of the station coming in at an angle, as seen in the photo.

I agree.

 

The Last Days of Steam in Gainsborough by Allen, on Flickr

 

The Falcon Soars by Allen, on Flickr

 

Lea Road Station, 1950s by Allen, on Flickr

[Tony Wright]

I reckon it is the approach to Gainsborough Lea Road. There was a 15mph restriction through the station and a siding south of the station coming in at an angle, as seen in the photo.

Thanks Mark,

 

It is approaching Gainsborough Lea Road Station. The great Roy Jackson (a Gainsborian, if that is the term for a native of that fair town) has confirmed it. The siding was a private one to Anderson's establishment. 

[Tony Wright]

I agree.

 

The Last Days of Steam in Gainsborough by Allen, on Flickr

 

The Falcon Soars by Allen, on Flickr

 

Lea Road Station, 1950s by Allen, on Flickr

As usual, thanks Robert.

 

I think the picture (and yours of FALCON) shows a Sunday diversionary working. 

 

I've also found another couple of shots showing an ex-streamlined catering pair as the front two cars of a train, taken at the same location (but on different days?)

[Tony Teague]

They're a sort of pad, sold by Gaugemaster. They just clip over the axle of a four-wheeled vehicle (I use them on brake vans) and gravity ensures they just rub along the rails. They need no solvent - their principal function is to keep dust off the rails. 

 

Thanks Tony, very helpful.

Tony

[robertcwp]

As usual, thanks Robert.

 

I think the picture (and yours of FALCON) shows a Sunday diversionary working. 

 

I've also found another couple of shots showing an ex-streamlined catering pair as the front two cars of a train, taken at the same location (but on different days?)

Not mine. Just ones I found via a search on Flickr.

[Tony Wright]

Tony the A1 in particular looks stunning. 

David,

 

I've ticked 'thanks' in response to your post, but may I please suggest (to all) that 'stunning' is reserved for the very highest-quality models?

 

Mine are 'layout' models in every way (or at least I hope so), made to look reasonable at 'stand-off' scale.

 

 

 

I'd describe the work of Barrie Walls in O Gauge as 'stunning', depicted here by his scratch-built A1 on a rake of kit-built Pullmans. What's most impressive is it's all his own work. 

 

 

 

If you have the highest-quality kit and a high-quality builder/painter, then combine the two in O Gauge and you get this - built from a Finney kit. I took this picture at one Guildex a decade or so ago and I've an idea the builder/painter has since died, but I could be wrong. I can't remember his name, but it is a stunning model.

 

 

If you've got the fiscal resources, one can just buy a stunning RTR loco - such as this Loveless P2 in O Gauge.

 

 

 

If you've got even greater fiscal resources then the results can be truly stunning, as shown here on John Ryan's Over Peover in O Gauge. Couple up a rake of Golden Age Pullmans to a factory-built DJH W1 and run it over a Norman Solomon-built viaduct (on Norman Solomon track) and there you go. 

 

I suppose it all boils down (as usual) to attitudes regarding 'possessions'. I'd never class as anything I've made as 'stunning', though it is my own personal work. 'Sufficient' rather than 'stunning', if I may? 

 

Anyway, back to modelling!

[The Johnster]

Thanks Mark,

 

It is approaching Gainsborough Lea Road Station. The great Roy Jackson (a Gainsborian, if that is the term for a native of that fair town) has confirmed it. The siding was a private one to Anderson's establishment. 

 

Gainsboruffian?

[robertcwp]

I think the Gainsborough image could be the Sunday lunchtime King's Cross-Leeds/Harrogate/Bradford/Hull train. It left King's Cross at 1.20 pm in 1958-9 winter and 12.45 pm in 1960-1 winter. I don't have the winter 1959-60 carriage workings. I don't think it's a summer timetable image as the trees are not in full leaf - compare to the shot of Falcon linked earlier.

 

The booked formation of the train had a catering portion at the front that was detached at Leeds Central where the train reversed. The Bradford section was probably detached at Wakefield Westgate. There were also through carriages for Hull detached at Doncaster. 

 

The catering was listed as FO-RK in 1958-9 and FO-RF in 1960-1. Neither was shown as an articulated pair. However, lots of catering cars shown in photos don't match up with the carriage workings around that time because the first batch of Mark I RUs delivered to the Eastern were such poor riders due to their bogies that Gresley and Thompson designs remained in the front line. Quite possibly, the ex-Coronation/West Riding twin was substituting, or may have been scheduled in 1959-60.

 

By the 1959-60 winter, the King's Cross-Glasgow train had lost its ex-Coronation pairs (one for each direction) which could well have become spares. The West Riding was still listed as including its pair in Summer 1959 but the workings had changed by 1960 when the title moved to a morning train and both it and the de-named afternoon working had lost their articulated catering pairs.

[Tony Wright]

I think the Gainsborough image could be the Sunday lunchtime King's Cross-Leeds/Harrogate/Bradford/Hull train. It left King's Cross at 1.20 pm in 1958-9 winter and 12.45 pm in 1960-1 winter. I don't have the winter 1959-60 carriage workings. I don't think it's a summer timetable image as the trees are not in full leaf - compare to the shot of Falcon linked earlier.

 

The booked formation of the train had a catering portion at the front that was detached at Leeds Central where the train reversed. The Bradford section was probably detached at Wakefield Westgate. There were also through carriages for Hull detached at Doncaster. 

 

The catering was listed as FO-RK in 1958-9 and FO-RF in 1960-1. Neither was shown as an articulated pair. However, lots of catering cars shown in photos don't match up with the carriage workings around that time because the first batch of Mark I RUs delivered to the Eastern were such poor riders due to their bogies that Gresley and Thompson designs remained in the front line. Quite possibly, the ex-Coronation/West Riding twin was substituting, or may have been scheduled in 1959-60.

 

By the 1959-60 winter, the King's Cross-Glasgow train had lost its ex-Coronation pairs (one for each direction) which could well have become spares. The West Riding was still listed as including its pair in Summer 1959 but the workings had changed by 1960 when the title moved to a morning train and both it and the de-named afternoon working had lost their articulated catering pairs.

Thanks again Robert.

 

The post-War 'West Riding' is a most interesting train, seemingly changing its formation with each passing season. 

 

Originally, it had six of the pre-War artics in its formation. Then the FO/FO pair went into other trains; firstly titled trains on the ex-GC then into the afternoon Talisman(s). The catering pair probably lasted until 1960 in it (because of the poor riding of the Mk.1 catering cars?), as did the BSO/SO artic.

 

Looking through more of these beautiful Keith Pirt pictures, it would seem that probably 90% were taken at weekends. So many of the trains illustrated don't appear in my BR official documents (even the weekend ones), and the stock is an absolute delight of variety, including Mk.1s mixed in with pre-Nationalisation types. Several artics appear as well in the sets including the mid-'30s steel types and the SO/SO Tourist stock. I've just a completed a four-compartment Gresley Brake Third, which I'll use as I please. 

 

Some of the trains shown are very long. Great stuff! There should be more than one book. 

Edited April 9, 2017 by Tony Wright

[robertcwp]

Thanks again Robert.

 

The post-War 'West Riding' is a most interesting train, seemingly changing its formation with each passing season. 

 

Originally, it had six of the pre-War artics in its formation. Then the FO/FO pair went into other trains; firstly titled trains on the ex-GC then into the afternoon Talisman(s). The catering pair probably lasted until 1960 in it (because of the poor riding of the Mk.1 catering cars?), as did the BSO/SO artic.

 

Looking through more of these beautiful Keith Pirt pictures, it would seem that probably 90% were taken at weekends. So many of the trains illustrated don't appear in my BR official documents (even the weekend ones), and the stock is an absolute delight of variety, including Mk.1s mixed in with pre-Nationalisation types. Several artics appear as well in the sets including the mid-'30s steel types and the SO/SO Tourist stock. I've just a completed a four-compartment Gresley Brake Third, which I'll use as I please. 

 

Some of the trains shown are very long. Great stuff! There should be more than one book. 

The twin FO from the West Riding was destroyed in the Huntingdon fire, along with a BTO-TO twin. Another pair of twins replaced them but the firsts were soon replaced by a Thompson one. The restaurant twin I think just outlasted the brake twin in the train.

[jrg1]

I think the Gainsborough image could be the Sunday lunchtime King's Cross-Leeds/Harrogate/Bradford/Hull train. It left King's Cross at 1.20 pm in 1958-9 winter and 12.45 pm in 1960-1 winter. I don't have the winter 1959-60 carriage workings. I don't think it's a summer timetable image as the trees are not in full leaf - compare to the shot of Falcon linked earlier.

 

The booked formation of the train had a catering portion at the front that was detached at Leeds Central where the train reversed. The Bradford section was probably detached at Wakefield Westgate. There were also through carriages for Hull detached at Doncaster. 

 

The catering was listed as FO-RK in 1958-9 and FO-RF in 1960-1. Neither was shown as an articulated pair. However, lots of catering cars shown in photos don't match up with the carriage workings around that time because the first batch of Mark I RUs delivered to the Eastern were such poor riders due to their bogies that Gresley and Thompson designs remained in the front line. Quite possibly, the ex-Coronation/West Riding twin was substituting, or may have been scheduled in 1959-60.

 

By the 1959-60 winter, the King's Cross-Glasgow train had lost its ex-Coronation pairs (one for each direction) which could well have become spares. The West Riding was still listed as including its pair in Summer 1959 but the workings had changed by 1960 when the title moved to a morning train and both it and the de-named afternoon working had lost their articulated catering pairs.

Many thanks for a most interesting post.  I have a file on Lincolnshire workings, and would like more information on the subject with interested parties-for a shire that was mainly rural, having Sunday diversions on the Joint, cross-country workings such as Newcastle-Colchester and the NCC, plus Bulleid sets and rostered GWR coaches all generated much interest.  Anyone with similar interests out there?

[Enterprisingwestern]

Gainsborough ECML diversions with a more modern slant!

 

 

 

Mike.

 

 

[Tony Wright]

The twin FO from the West Riding was destroyed in the Huntingdon fire, along with a BTO-TO twin. Another pair of twins replaced them but the firsts were soon replaced by a Thompson one. The restaurant twin I think just outlasted the brake twin in the train.

Thanks Robert,

 

I'd forgotten that the FO/FO from the West Riding was destroyed in the Huntingdon fire. What did that leave? The FO/FOs from the Coronation and the spare? All fascinating stuff. 

 

Talking of fascinating stuff, and because it's part of my writing a book (thus not 'wasted' time), please take a look at the following images. 

 

 

This shows the twin catering cars again, this time on the main line; at Markham Moor.

 

 

And again, this time at Eaton Wood. 

 

 

And, once more approaching Gainsborough Lea Road. Interestingly, the rest of the formations are not all the same. 

 

 

 

 

More at Lea Road - no doubt Sunday diversions. Look how mixed the stock is. 

 

 

I can find no record of this working (approaching Retford) in any of my BR books. Could it be a 'parly', even though all the intermediate main line stations had closed by this time? 

 

 

Nowhere in my records does a formation include a GE shorty as the first carriage. A strengthener? 

 

 

Or of this ancient twin as the first two cars behind this express at Grantham, taken in the hot summer of 1959.

 

 

And, what about this mix? Only an ex-SR carriage is needed to complete this eclectic rake. 

 

Granted that KRP was out mainly at weekends with his camera, but from these images (and there are hundreds more), it would appear to be a case of 'anything goes'. 

 

I pore over the official BR train make-up documents for my period, trying to get my ECML sets as 'right' as I can. However, why don't I run the Lizzie in weekend form and not run the Tees-Tyne Pullman? Just run a summer Saturday service. If nothing else, it shows how kit-building stock is still absolutely necessary for a truly representative steam-age ECML picture. I'd better get started!

 

Any comments, gratefully received, please. 

[Buhar]

Did the GN main line run reliefs to increase capacity like the WCML did? It could explain the unknown formation above.

[coachmann]

The last photo formation looks like : Early LMS D1905 corridor brake second with torpedo vents, GWR C77 corridor second, BR Mk. kitchen restaurant, two Gresley D186 open seconds.... The remaining five I dunno.

[robertcwp]

The last photo formation looks like : Early LMS D1905 corridor brake second with torpedo vents, GWR C77 corridor second, BR Mk. kitchen restaurant, two Gresley D186 open seconds.... The remaining five I dunno.

The catering car is a Mark I RU probably from the E1959-91 batch as it has CW bogies.

[mark54]

E1305.jpg

 

Or of this ancient twin as the first two cars behind this express at Grantham, taken in the hot summer of 1959.

 

Tony, I believe that twin is an ex-GN diagram 218DD CK-BSO with pantry. Built in 1919, there were only 2 pairs. If so, this one looks to be in pretty good condition considering it is probably 40 years old!

[robertcwp]

The image of 60046 approaching Retford on a two-carriage train shows one of the rare Thompson 3-compartment brakes at the front.  If it were a stopper, I would expect the lamps to be different or did they habitually use express lamps anyway? No idea of the working.

[Headstock]

Quite by chance I've just completed painting a C77 corridor third, unlike the carriage in the photo it has eight compartments and toilets at each end. No 2 in the photo would seem to have seven compartments/saloons and a toilet at one end only. I addition I think I can spy first class branding on the end doors. The carriages at the tail end look like ex LM, three appear to have intermediate doors on the corridor side but not portholes.

 

Edited to add, carriage number 2 has a water filler tank at the leading end only.

Edited April 10, 2017 by Headstock

[robertcwp]

60047 at Ganwick is probably on the 6.26 pm King's Cross-Hull which was a 9-car train approximating to what is in the image. The sun is from the west so it must be an afternoon/evening shot. The GE short composite could simply be a substitute for a non-available Mark I CK.

 

1960 summer formation (Mon-Fri) was CK, BSO, TSO, TSO, BSO, RF, SO, CK, BSK (all booked Mark I except RF, SO) and the winter 1960-1 formation (which also ran on Saturdays was basically the same). Formation does not match exactly as the second carriage in the image is a BSK but the overall shape looks correct. Moreover, aside from the Talisman, it's the only 9-car non-Pullman train I can find that might have had pacific haulage. The front three were detached at Doncaster except on Fridays. I don't have the summer GN Main Line books (or the ECML ones) for the summers of 1961 or 1962, which is probably when the photo was taken. When 60047 gained deflectors would be a clue.

 

Carriage workings were more a statement of intent that what exactly happened but for regular services the overall formation would I think usually be close to booked due to seat reservations and needing to maintain approximately the booked capacity.

[robertcwp]

Quite by chance I've just completed painting a C77 corridor third, unlike the carriage in the photo it has eight compartments and toilets at each end. No 2 in the photo would seem to have seven compartments/saloons and a toilet at one end only. I addition I think I can spy first class branding on the end doors. The carriages at the tail end look like ex LM, three appear to have intermediate doors on the corridor side but not portholes.

 

Edited to add, carriage number 2 has a water filler tank at the leading end only.

I agree, it's a GWR Collett corridor first in the image.

[robertcwp]

Here's a more unusual train on the southern end of the ECML:

 

60047_nrHatfield_sbound_20-8-61 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

[Headstock]

The image of 60046 approaching Retford on a two-carriage train shows one of the rare Thompson 3-compartment brakes at the front.  If it were a stopper, I would expect the lamps to be different or did they habitually use express lamps anyway? No idea of the working.

 

Evening Robert,

 

I can only speak for the GC. It wasn't uncommon for ordinary passenger trains to run with express head codes or even change head code type en route.

[coachmann]

I agree, it's a GWR Collett corridor first in the image.

A23 possibly.

[Bulwell Hall]

Gerry,

 

the sheeting on the wagons was done in two ways. The LMS highfit was produced with kitchen tin foil as an experiment, not as robust as my usual method but you can work in some nice effects. Once it is permanently adhered to the load and properly roped on it should be ok. I was concerned about the paint flaking off but a good coating of car primer seems to be holding pretty firm.

 

My usual method is to use normal paper, in this case, chopped up old gas bills gives a satisfying effect. The important thing is to cut a slightly wiggly edge to the area that is to hang down the wagon sides but not the ends. I then crumple the paper up and often fold it up so that when it is undone the residue of fold lines remain. I then place it under a water tap but not so it is so saturated that it falls apart. A spare wagon body of the correct dimensions has been preprepared with the load in it. It is wrapped up in cling film to an approximation of how I want the sheeting to form. The wet paper is then aligned over the wagon body plus load and pressed gently to shape over the sides. It is then left to dry for about four or five minutes before shaping the ends and tucking in the corners. It's worth taking your time over this bit so that the paper doesn't tear, it's more about forming rather than forcing. I don't usually fold the corners in completely until about fifteen minutes after the first application of water. once you are happy with them they can usually be held in place with a dab of water and pressure from your finger. I then leave it to dry off, returning after half an hour or so to do a little more forming around the load if required. You can continue to do this at any stage through the drying process but don't over work it.

 

Finally, when dry, the sheeting will ease off the cling film quite easily and provide a little breathing space to allow it to fit to whatever wagon you chose. A little pressure between finger and thumb will help adjust the fit as required. In the past, I have then painted the sheeting but with this batch, I sprayed them first with car primer to get a better look at the effect and add more strength. The final phase before painting is to form any additional folds in the sheeting, I do this with a pair of pliers, for example, where the sheeting overhangs the wagon sides. I just grip the relevant part where I wish to produce a fold between the jaws of the pliers and squeeze. The same technique can be used on any part of the sheeting, for instance, were the rope or the load pulls the sheeting taught. The rest of the process is just the painting and weathering. Subtle dry brushing is probably the best method of accentuating the folds and creases. The good thing is that if it all goes wrong, you just cut up another gas bill.

Thanks for the explanation Andrew - that is really very helpfull.  Your wagon sheets are most effective and I shall try your method myself.