Wright writes.....

[MJI]

4 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

Certainly in the case of the Deltic as, thinking about it, there has been a more recent 3000hp+ express passenger diesel;  the Class 67.

 

Also, of course there are Voyagers and Class 180 units, that (sort-of) fall into the HST's niche, but I can't see there ever being another straight diesel "twin-power-car" fast passenger train.

 I think a Deltic would show up a 67, especially if it was 19 a few years ago, when the power units were accidentally too powerful.

[Dunsignalling]

11 minutes ago, MJI said:

The southern regoons premier traction was a 4 car EMU, which is on my sadly not travelled in list.

True, but you very rarely got one on its own. Impressive enough with trailers though.

[Dunsignalling]

10 minutes ago, MJI said:

 I think a Deltic would show up a 67, especially if it was 19 a few years ago, when the power units were accidentally too powerful.

The 67 might shade it on top speed, but I reckon the Deltic would have it in everything else.

[John Tomlinson]

52 minutes ago, Dunsignalling said:

The 67 might shade it on top speed, but I reckon the Deltic would have it in everything else.

 

Indeed, there's a reason that the 67's were rapidly nicknamed "Skips"!

 

John.

[MJI]

[Tony Wright]

3 hours ago, Keith Turbutt said:

Nicely modelled and painted but I think the sandboxes should be longer and nearer to the front of the smoke box ?

Is the RHS one further forward?

You'll have to ask the builder, Keith. 

 

Much of the loco was completed when Geoff got it - his brief would appear to be to make it go and to paint it. 

 

It must be a tricky one at times for professional painters; does the brief extend to altering a model to make it 'correct' prior to painting?

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[GH in EM and O]

7 hours ago, Keith Turbutt said:

Nicely modelled and painted but I think the sandboxes should be longer and nearer to the front of the smoke box ?

Is the RHS one further forward?

Thank you Keith. Whilst I am not an expert on matters relating to the GER, the position of the sandboxes match those in the photo I was asked to replicate, ie above the front footsteps. They are both in the same position. The loco is boxed up for sending to the client, but I even got it out to double check.

[john new]

On 26/07/2024 at 15:59, Dunsignalling said:

 

All of those things, but to different people. 

 

In purely commercial terms, the vehicle that contributed most to the bottom line, since the first railway was laid, was probably the humble coal wagon. 

 

Many of the things we enthusiasts most worship were tolerated for prestige reasons rather than the nett contribution they made to the railway's coffers.

 

Taking the Deltic example. They were, at the time, the only route to the single-unit 3000hp+ diesel the ECML demanded. Intensive and expensive maintenance was tolerated, but only until the HST came along offering greater speed, with budgeting predictability. Plus, of course, the HST included a serious upgrade to bit the passenger sat in. 

Without the first railed coal wagon, be that at Wollaton or Brosely, back in the C17th we might not even have had railways replacing roads.

 

Edited July 27 by john new

[john new]

On 26/07/2024 at 20:43, Dunsignalling said:

 

I think it's clear that both the Deltic and the HST are "the greatest" in their respective categories, simply because there will be nothing to follow either of them.

 

However, what the enthusiast desires, and what the railway needs, seldom coincide, the former generally being what the latter judges to be in need of replacement!

 

Whilst I appreciated riding behind Deltics for pleasure, I rode HSTs for business, which is what they were intended for; arriving fresh, calm, and often early, for meetings. I remember one trip leaving Taunton at about 1100, and with fortuitous tube connections, being in my Peterborough hotel three and a half hours later. HST on both legs because I arrived KX in time for the service before my planned electric one, and, two hours less than it had taken by Jaguar the previous week!

 

Replacing the Deltics was incidental to the programme; BR's need for the HST was system-wide, and the cost of keeping the ageing Deltics delivering the required performance was only going one way.

 

I'd have loved some Southern Deltics as the diesel replacement for my personal greatest steam locos, the masterful Rebuilt Merchant Navies, but regional changes ensured that could never happen. 

 

They, BR Southern Region, got the Deltic equivalent with the REPs and later the Wessex. 442 units.

[melmoth]

14 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

 

I believe the one I drove has a rigid plastic nose, which could do considerable damage (Imagine a kid getting his eye down to track level in the four foot!); later ones had a 'bendy' rubber one. 

 

 

At something of a tangent, it wasn't until I became a parent that I realised that one of the main reasons for providing small children with soft toys wasn't to prevent them harming themselves, but to prevent them causing harm to anyone within throwing range.

[robertcwp]

37 minutes ago, john new said:

They, BR Southern Region, got the Deltic equivalent with the REPs and later the Wessex. 442 units.

The 4-Rep units had more power at the rail than a Deltic I believe, but they were built to propel or haul eight other carriages. Modern-day units are more powerful for the number of carriages, Thameslink and Elizabeth Line stock in particular. 

[MJI]

1 minute ago, robertcwp said:

The 4-Rep units had more power at the rail than a Deltic I believe, but they were built to propel or haul eight other carriages. Modern-day units are more powerful for the number of carriages, Thameslink and Elizabeth Line stock in particular. 

But look at the shoe arcing.

 

Read there used to be a turn for a 4 car train on Bournemouth line. Was one of the quickest point to point services.

[Keith Turbutt]

3 hours ago, GH in EM and O said:

Thank you Keith. Whilst I am not an expert on matters relating to the GER, the position of the sandboxes match those in the photo I was asked to replicate, ie above the front footsteps. They are both in the same position. The loco is boxed up for sending to the client, but I even got it out to double check.

It was only an observation and I'm sure the client will be very pleased to receive such a nice model.

[Tony Wright]

As mentioned many weeks ago, my building of a DJH Standard Five has taken far too long. I started it just prior to the Doncaster show in February, and it's been with me to every subsequent show I've attended (little increments added between each one). I always take an 'under-construction' model as part of my display, but this one has taken far too long. Thus, I hope to have it completed (though not painted) at the Loughborough show next month. That being the case, I'd better crack on.................

 

 

Which I have done, adding clacks and handrails since it was last seen. There's still all that plumber's nightmare piping to put on around the firebox, but the bodywork should be completed soon.

 

 

The yardstick! This DJH Standard Five was built by the late (and great) Roy Jackson; in OO (yes OO!) for a bloke he knew who seemed to disappear without trace when Roy tried to tell him his model was finished. Geoff Kent painted/weathered it. 

 

Having (obviously) no use for it (and with the bloke untraceable) , Roy gave it to me (in exchange for a chassis I'd built in EM). What a joy to have a Jackson/Kent loco.

 

It had a five-pole open-framed D13 motor and straight Romford 40:1 gears, which gave a rapid, if slightly noisy drive (presumably what that bloke provided). I replaced it it with a DJH AM10 motor/gearbox giving silky-smooth performance. 

 

There was a trio of Standard Fives shedded at Kings Cross for a time in the '50s (which mine will become one of), but 73069 wasn't one of those.  I don't think I'll be altering it.

 

Speaking of DJH, I assume all the stock which Ellis Clark took over has been sold? Is Squires now selling newly-produced DJH kits? Or newly-produced South Eastern Finecast kits for that matter? 

 

For what it's worth, I'd suggest buying any DJH kits which come up for sale via the various channels. I have!

 

 

[polybear]

14 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

As mentioned many weeks ago, my building of a DJH Standard Five has taken far too long. I started it just prior to the Doncaster show in February, and it's been with me to every subsequent show I've attended (little increments added between each one). I always take an 'under-construction' model as part of my display, but this one has taken far too long. Thus, I hope to have it completed (though not painted) at the Loughborough show next month. That being the case, I'd better crack on.................

 

 

Which I have done, adding clacks and handrails since it was last seen. There's still all that plumber's nightmare piping to put on around the firebox, but the bodywork should be completed soon.

 

 

The yardstick! This DJH Standard Five was built by the late (and great) Roy Jackson; in OO (yes OO!) for a bloke he knew who seemed to disappear without trace when Roy tried to tell him his model was finished. Geoff Kent painted/weathered it. 

 

Having (obviously) no use for it (and with the bloke untraceable) , Roy gave it to me (in exchange for a chassis I'd built in EM). What a joy to have a Jackson/Kent loco.

 

It had a five-pole open-framed D13 motor and straight Romford 40:1 gears, which gave a rapid, if slightly noisy drive (presumably what that bloke provided). I replaced it it with a DJH AM10 motor/gearbox giving silky-smooth performance. 

 

There was a trio of Standard Fives shedded at Kings Cross for a time in the '50s (which mine will become one of), but 73069 wasn't one of those.  I don't think I'll be altering it.

 

Speaking of DJH, I assume all the stock which Ellis Clark took over has been sold? Is Squires now selling newly-produced DJH kits? Or newly-produced South Eastern Finecast kits for that matter? 

 

For what it's worth, I'd suggest buying any DJH kits which come up for sale via the various channels. I have!

 

 

 

Clark Railworks have some:

 

https://clarkrailworks.com/collections/kit-built/djh?sort_by=created-descending

 

There's also been this update on Squires/DJH:

 

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/forums/topic/184515-squires-to-take-over-djh-products/page/5/#comment-5576771

 

HTH

Kind Regards,

Brian

[dibateg]

Standard Fives, I built 73066 8 years ago from the Sans Pareil kit - the etches were Gibson 4mm scale ones blown up. So it didn't go together quite as easily as one would expect. Apparently 73066 was the poorest performer out of class that was allocated to the GC. I had the same engine in 4mm scale from the DJH kit - I'd bought it second hand - I forget who it went to...

[robertcwp]

2 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

As mentioned many weeks ago, my building of a DJH Standard Five has taken far too long. I started it just prior to the Doncaster show in February, and it's been with me to every subsequent show I've attended (little increments added between each one). I always take an 'under-construction' model as part of my display, but this one has taken far too long. Thus, I hope to have it completed (though not painted) at the Loughborough show next month. That being the case, I'd better crack on.................

 

 

Which I have done, adding clacks and handrails since it was last seen. There's still all that plumber's nightmare piping to put on around the firebox, but the bodywork should be completed soon.

 

 

The yardstick! This DJH Standard Five was built by the late (and great) Roy Jackson; in OO (yes OO!) for a bloke he knew who seemed to disappear without trace when Roy tried to tell him his model was finished. Geoff Kent painted/weathered it. 

 

Having (obviously) no use for it (and with the bloke untraceable) , Roy gave it to me (in exchange for a chassis I'd built in EM). What a joy to have a Jackson/Kent loco.

 

It had a five-pole open-framed D13 motor and straight Romford 40:1 gears, which gave a rapid, if slightly noisy drive (presumably what that bloke provided). I replaced it it with a DJH AM10 motor/gearbox giving silky-smooth performance. 

 

There was a trio of Standard Fives shedded at Kings Cross for a time in the '50s (which mine will become one of), but 73069 wasn't one of those.  I don't think I'll be altering it.

 

Speaking of DJH, I assume all the stock which Ellis Clark took over has been sold? Is Squires now selling newly-produced DJH kits? Or newly-produced South Eastern Finecast kits for that matter? 

 

For what it's worth, I'd suggest buying any DJH kits which come up for sale via the various channels. I have!

 

 

73069 looks very impressive. The real one was unlucky not to be preserved as it survived until August 1968 and was the last (or close to the last) steam loco to be overhauled at Crewe.

 

Here it is in 1959 in GC service:

73069_SouthYorkshireman Aylesbury_7-4-59 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

[Denbridge]

2 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

As mentioned many weeks ago, my building of a DJH Standard Five has taken far too long. I started it just prior to the Doncaster show in February, and it's been with me to every subsequent show I've attended (little increments added between each one). I always take an 'under-construction' model as part of my display, but this one has taken far too long. Thus, I hope to have it completed (though not painted) at the Loughborough show next month. That being the case, I'd better crack on.................

 

 

Which I have done, adding clacks and handrails since it was last seen. There's still all that plumber's nightmare piping to put on around the firebox, but the bodywork should be completed soon.

 

 

The yardstick! This DJH Standard Five was built by the late (and great) Roy Jackson; in OO (yes OO!) for a bloke he knew who seemed to disappear without trace when Roy tried to tell him his model was finished. Geoff Kent painted/weathered it. 

 

Having (obviously) no use for it (and with the bloke untraceable) , Roy gave it to me (in exchange for a chassis I'd built in EM). What a joy to have a Jackson/Kent loco.

 

It had a five-pole open-framed D13 motor and straight Romford 40:1 gears, which gave a rapid, if slightly noisy drive (presumably what that bloke provided). I replaced it it with a DJH AM10 motor/gearbox giving silky-smooth performance. 

 

There was a trio of Standard Fives shedded at Kings Cross for a time in the '50s (which mine will become one of), but 73069 wasn't one of those.  I don't think I'll be altering it.

 

Speaking of DJH, I assume all the stock which Ellis Clark took over has been sold? Is Squires now selling newly-produced DJH kits? Or newly-produced South Eastern Finecast kits for that matter? 

 

For what it's worth, I'd suggest buying any DJH kits which come up for sale via the various channels. I have!

 

 

Hello Tony

Firstly, my apologies. I will send you and email soon.

Squires have just opened a new factory in Consett using the equipment purchased from DJH and staffed by former DJH people. Production is underway. They are also shipping production of SEF kits to the new facility. I'm assured that problems with worn moulds will be addressed. You will be delighted to learn that production of DJH motor gearboxes is also resuming.

[Tony Wright]

Thanks for all the information on DJH/South Eastern Finecast. Good news indeed!

 

Just the motion to build now.....

 

 

 

Fitting the wiggly pipes is always good fun.

 

 

[Keith Turbutt]

23 hours ago, robertcwp said:

The 4-Rep units had more power at the rail than a Deltic I believe, but they were built to propel or haul eight other carriages. Modern-day units are more powerful for the number of carriages, Thameslink and Elizabeth Line stock in particular. 

For me, the best ever emus in the 60s and 70s were the Clacton express sets (309s) - we called them the 'red electrics' when all the other emus were green. They were based on the mk1s but with the latest Commonwealth (?) bogies and originally a notice in the cab said 'max speed 100 mph'. Sadly they brought down some overhead a few times and the GE track was not up to the higher speeds so the speed had to be restricted.

When traveling to school I saw the individual  coaches being delivered from York to Stanway sidings just outside Colchester where they were marshalled into their various units. I often stood in the connecting corridor by one of the driving cabs and watched the speed build up when traveling to school and later commuting to London.

One unit of the three sets (4+4+2) making up a 10 coach train included a griddle car which was very popular on the way home in the evening . If you weren't near the front of the queue at departure there was no guarantee that you would be served before you arrived at your station!

Happy days.

Edited July 28 by Keith Turbutt
Think the max speed notice may have been 100mph not 125

[Tony Wright]

12 hours ago, robertcwp said:

73069 looks very impressive. The real one was unlucky not to be preserved as it survived until August 1968 and was the last (or close to the last) steam loco to be overhauled at Crewe.

 

Here it is in 1959 in GC service:

73069_SouthYorkshireman Aylesbury_7-4-59 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

Good evening Robert,

 

Thanks for that, though it shows scant regard on BR's part for the cleanliness (or lack of it) of a locomotive hauling a prestige express. At least the stock is clean, and what delightful antiquities to the right. 

 

One thing I note is that the prototype 73069 has plain coupling rods, unlike on the model, which are fluted. Was it built with fluted rods and then had them changed? It was a modification applied to later-built locos, and were some earlier ones changed? I'll check on my source material, principally the volume by the RCTS.

 

I had to swap mine round (thanks PMP) on my model (73158), because I fixed the coupling rods on to start with with the flutes showing - the trio at Top Shed all had plain coupling rods. 

 

Ah, those joys of loco-picking!

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[westernviscount]

Some more weathering for the filthy inclined.

 

 

 

 

[MJI]

Aren't we lucky to have had so many great trains/locos?

 

All sorts by lots of different companies.

 

Just think

 

Hall

Black 5

Duchess

A4

A1

MN

9F

28xx & 8F

Schools

 

08

37

55

HST

 

87

91

 

 

Even some great MUs

 

BTW left off a few personal favourites such as Castle and 50

Edited July 28 by MJI

[Bob-65b]

2 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Good evening Robert,

 

Thanks for that, though it shows scant regard on BR's part for the cleanliness (or lack of it) of a locomotive hauling a prestige express. At least the stock is clean, and what delightful antiquities to the right. 

 

One thing I note is that the prototype 73069 has plain coupling rods, unlike on the model, which are fluted. Was it built with fluted rods and then had them changed? It was a modification applied to later-built locos, and were some earlier ones changed? I'll check on my source material, principally the volume by the RCTS.

 

I had to swap mine round (thanks PMP) on my model (73158), because I fixed the coupling rods on to start with with the flutes showing - the trio at Top Shed all had plain coupling rods. 

 

Ah, those joys of loco-picking!

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

The first 50 Tony, were fitted from new with fluted coupling rods (73000 - 73049) the remainder (73050 - 73171) were all fitted on the instruction of E.S.Cox, with plain section rods from new.  None of the first 50 were retrospectively fitted.  It would appear in your photo's that the rods you are using are parallel along their length whereas they should really be fish-bellied.  

 

Bob

[Clive Mortimore]

3 hours ago, Keith Turbutt said:

For me, the best ever emus in the 60s and 70s were the Clacton express sets (309s) - we called them the 'red electrics' when all the other emus were green. They were based on the mk1s but with the latest Commonwealth (?) bogies and originally a notice in the cab said 'max speed 100 mph'. Sadly they brought down some overhead a few times and the GE track was not up to the higher speeds so the speed had to be restricted.

When traveling to school I saw the individual  coaches being delivered from York to Stanway sidings just outside Colchester where they were marshalled into their various units. I often stood in the connecting corridor by one of the driving cabs and watched the speed build up when traveling to school and later commuting to London.

One unit of the three sets (4+4+2) making up a 10 coach train included a griddle car which was very popular on the way home in the evening . If you weren't near the front of the queue at departure there was no guarantee that you would be served before you arrived at your station!

Happy days.

 

Hi Keef

 

They were Commonwealth bogies. Even after refurbishment the notice in the cab was " Max Speed 100mph". There acceleration was terrific, from a standing start at Chemlsford they would be doing 40mph by the time they went under Arbour Lane bridge. There were limits as to how many Clacton sets could be west of Shenfield at any one time as the drew so much power. When I was working with the Blood Transfusion Service I was chatting to a donor who happened to be a train driver, we got talking about AM9s and he said he saw the speedo was touching 100mph and then realised he had just gone past Witham, whoops.

 

It was one bringing down the wires at New Hall sidings (where the new Beaulieu Park station is being built, for non Essex people) which made me late for work and in turn ended what was a dead end job at Marconis. 

 

It was great when they down graded the first class in the country end DTC. I liked it if I could get a single seat in what had been the first open saloons on the old buffet units, our mate Mr Hall liked the compartments on the corresponding ex Walton units. Then they went and refurbished them, not as nice after that.

 

Anyhow wasn't the griddle car story one of Pete's favorites to tell at least twice a year?

 

 

Edited July 28 by Clive Mortimore