Wright writes.....

[Tony Wright]

11 hours ago, 88C said:

Re Redcraft kits, I am sorry to say that they are no longer trading. I met John Harris, the brother of Derek who were the proprietors and he said that the market had dried up. The kits were from hand drawn etching masters way back in the late 80s. I have built all of the Barry Railway kits they produced and Derek was very good at supplying chassis kits for scratch building projects. 
 

Brian

Good morning Brian,

 

Do you have any pictures of the Recraft kits you've made, please? 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[88C]

Morning Tony,

 

I do have photos and will post some when I get chance. There are several scattered on my Llanforen thread and you posted one on here after I visited with Gordon a few years ago, I have since fixed the wonky chimney.

 

Brian

[88C]

As promised some photos, sorry they are not level.

 

The first Redcraft kit that I built was the F class, the chassis for this kit has been used for A and B classes.

 

A B1 class. The most numerous Barry class, built by several firms so there are slight differences.

 

An H class, mostly used for shunting the docks. I used a chassis as the basis of a D class.

 

A  J class passenger loco.

 

A K class, American built when British factories were too busy.

 

Finally, not Barry but a Rhymney saddle tank. Probably should be lined but I know my limits.

 

The kits are of their day but without them I doubt I would have a collection of Barry Railway models.

 

 

[Tony Wright]

59 minutes ago, 88C said:

As promised some photos, sorry they are not level.

 

The first Redcraft kit that I built was the F class, the chassis for this kit has been used for A and B classes.

 

A B1 class. The most numerous Barry class, built by several firms so there are slight differences.

 

An H class, mostly used for shunting the docks. I used a chassis as the basis of a D class.

 

A  J class passenger loco.

 

A K class, American built when British factories were too busy.

 

Finally, not Barry but a Rhymney saddle tank. Probably should be lined but I know my limits.

 

The kits are of their day but without them I doubt I would have a collection of Barry Railway models.

 

 

Thanks for showing these Brian,

 

I'd quite forgotten your visit (from over four years ago - prior to Covid!).

 

 

 

 

Your lovely models certainly make interesting subjects.

 

Small companies, making 'obscure' loco kits used to be quite common. However as a lessening demand, age, mortality, a decline in modelling skills and increasing costs take effect, then the disappearance of such ranges is inevitable. 

 

Thank goodness such 'obscurities' (like yours) have been built and can be seen running.

 

Obscurities such as these..............

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Running on Rob Kinsey's Merthyr Riverside in EM, which will be at Expo EM North next month in Shipley.

 

How refreshing to see something so different from the current 'swamping' with RTR in the hobby.

 

I'll look through my photo library to see how many other images I have of locos built from 'obscure' kits. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

 

Edited July 7 by Tony Wright
to add something

[88C]

Well done for finding the photos. My scratch built models will be on display at the MAG meeting in Derby and the whole lot along with Llanforen Shed will be at the club show in October.

 

It was pure chance that I met John Harris at the Gloucestershire, Warwickshire gala, we just happened to be in the same compartment and got chatting. I was able to show him some photos which I had on the camera. It’s a small world.

 

Brian

[Richard_A]

27 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Thanks for showing these Brian,

 

I'd quite forgotten your visit (from over four years ago - prior to Covid!).

 

 

 

 

Your lovely models certainly make interesting subjects.

 

Small companies, making 'obscure' loco kits used to be quite common. However as a lessening demand, age, mortality, a decline in modelling skills and increasing costs take effect, then the disappearance of such ranges is inevitable. 

 

Thank goodness such 'obscurities' (like yours) have been built and can be seen running.

 

Obscurities such as these..............

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Running on Rob Kinsey's Merthyr Riverside in EM, which will be at Expo EM North next month in Shipley.

 

How refreshing to see something so different from the current 'swamping' with RTR in the hobby.

 

I'll look through my photo library to see how many other images I have of locos built from 'obscure' kits. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

 

Looking at this model makes me wish I still lived in Huddersfield so I could pop over to Shipley. 

 

Oh well, Swansea isn't too bad especially when the airshow is on. 

[Tony Wright]

A few locos built from (relatively in some cases) 'obscure' kits..............

 

 

Well-known for producing O Gauge kits, ACE's 4mm range is little-known. 

 

This O2/2 proved to be 'interesting' to build (Tim Shackleton weathered it).

 

 

Building this ACE P2 was even more-'interesting', though Ian Rathbone's painting made it what it is. 

 

East Coast Joint Models (Nick Campling) supplied two loco kits...........

 

 

A V4 (builder/painter unknown).

 

 

And an L1 (built/painted by me, weathered by Tom Foster). 

 

The pair became part of the ABS range, and now, presumably, have disappeared forever? 

 

Coopercraft produced at least two loco kits..............

 

 

A just-about-unbuildable B12/3 (this one, part of only a trio known to have been built!). 

 

 

And an F4 (builder/painter forgotten). 

 

WSM? That's a name to conjure with. The firm made at least three kits for LNER locos..........

 

 

A D2 (received in 'exploded' condition after it was involved in a car crash!).

 

 

And another 'exploded' one, this one caused by the post!

 

 

 

Which I rebuilt for Jess Sim.

 

 

An Ivatt C1.

 

I think this is WSM, though it could be K's; over to you, Jonathan............

 

 

And a J6.

 

More 'obscurities' to follow...........

 

 

 

 

[Northmoor]

5 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

How refreshing to see something so different from the current 'swamping' with RTR in the hobby.

 

Totally agree.  There is something especially inspiring in these layouts and models and it isn't only that everything has had to be kit or scratch-built.  It's that there is no-one alive who can recall the prototypes first-hand, so the research involved is so much more in-depth, which must be a very enjoyable exercise.  The fact that there is almost no colour record of the pre-1923 world requires a lot of research in itself.

 

I've never seen Merthyr Riverside at exhibition but although it's not the era or prototype that particularly interests me, I suspect it is one of those layouts that I would linger at for notably longer than some others.  Great modelling is great modelling, whatever the subject.

Edited July 7 by Northmoor

[Michael Edge]

20 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Looking back at how I built that B&M 0-6-0ST (which appeared in BRM), the following pictures might be of interest.........

 

 

This is how the Redcraft kit appeared on emptying the contents of the box. The 'holes'  to take the axle bearings were just dimples!

 

 

Setting up the frames called for the old dodge of passing one eighth steel rods through the bearings, illuminating the set-up and then 'reading' the shadows; very 'old-school'. No etched tabs and slots here!

 

 

The chassis completed.

 

See what I mean from yesterday of my 'dread' in having to dismantle all this to replace the motor? 

 

Fortunately, it was not required.

 

 

 

I think it looked 'attractive' when completed.

 

 

And, when completed, Rob Kinsey painted it.

 

I have to say, having built about six locos with outside cranks, the prospect does not appeal to me. Every one has proved to be a time-consuming fiddle before satisfactory running has been achieved. 

 

I built two Gibson Buffalos for a customer once, and vowed 'never again'.

 

That said.........

 

 

I did build a third for one of Geoff Haynes' customers; obviously the body (with any brightwork left off until after Geoff had painted it), and also the frames. However, after that, he added the drive, wheels and cranks - I don't touch friction-fit drivers!

 

Romford/Markits are a different proposition, however..........

 

 

And building these frames for a Nu-Cast Armstrong wasn't too daunting, though still more of a fiddle.

 

 

In fact, the finished thing ran well. 

 

Built for another customer of Geoff's (this time in OO, rather than in EM), he then painted it.

 

But only after it............

 

 

 

Had been thoroughly run-in on LB.

 

I've probably asked this question before, but what are others' experiences of outside-cranks? Is it just me who struggles with them?

 

Fortunately, for my own modelling, nothing I build requires them. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It's never easy but does depend very much on how the cranks are made and fitted. The old Romford system with an extended 10BA thread was never very satisfactory although it can work, Gibson plastic cranks are a good push fit on plain axles and are easily adjusted but they are a bit on the chunky side. Our kits include shouldered axles and built up press on cranks, they work well enough but can be tricky to set accurately. Recently I've used the new Markits system, all machined and all screwed together, this works very well and is probably foolproof but in normal use is restricted to one axle length - not all outside cranks are at the same distance from the centre of the loco. This was amply demonstrated by my attempts to use (in 7mm) the Slater's crank system for an EE/HL 0-6-0DE, the system works perfectly but the axles are far too short.

One more point worth making is that most models with outside cranks, including rtr, have them far too wide - to the extent of fouling platforms and ground signals at times.

[Tony Wright]

More 'obscurities'.............

 

 

Agenoria made some interesting loco types.

 

I can't recall who built this 0-4-2ST.

 

 

 

Though I built this Agenoria 'Victory', now available (and inevitably!) RTR. 

 

Dave Alexander supplied some LNER types.

 

 

Including a K4 (how long before something like this appears RTR?).

 

 

The likes of which Eric Kidd built (seen alongside my scratch-built K4). 

 

Magna Models made a few smaller types..........

 

 

Such as this J10 (built by a 15 year old Tom Wright).

 

Mercian were good kits...........

 

 

I built this ex-LNWR 0-8-0 in EM from the range, which Ian Rathbone painted.

 

 

Though I can't recall who brought along this Mercian J94. 

 

M&L did a range of GWR types............

 

 

Including a Manor.

 

And Westward also did GWR locos.........

 

 

Including a Grange.

 

Remember MPD kits?

 

 

Attractively-presented.

 

 

Brian Lee built an MPD 2F.

 

 

And a 3F.

 

 

I part-rebuilt an MPD 3F, making a new mechanism for it. It was given to me, and well worth 'resurrecting'. 

 

 

I can't recall who brought this example along.

 

 

And I built this MPD L&Y 0-6-0 (Geoff Haynes made it go - friction-fit drivers!).

 

I'm sure I've missed out many small firms. Can anyone help with which, please?  

 

 

 

 

 

Edited to include this Dave Alexander G5, though who built it..............?

Edited July 7 by Tony Wright
to add something

[lezz01]

Omega models did a very nice looking slim boilered Johnson 4-4-0 kit that pops up on the bay for silly money from time to time.

Regards Lez.

[Tony Wright]

35 minutes ago, Michael Edge said:

It's never easy but does depend very much on how the cranks are made and fitted. The old Romford system with an extended 10BA thread was never very satisfactory although it can work, Gibson plastic cranks are a good push fit on plain axles and are easily adjusted but they are a bit on the chunky side. Our kits include shouldered axles and built up press on cranks, they work well enough but can be tricky to set accurately. Recently I've used the new Markits system, all machined and all screwed together, this works very well and is probably foolproof but in normal use is restricted to one axle length - not all outside cranks are at the same distance from the centre of the loco. This was amply demonstrated by my attempts to use (in 7mm) the Slater's crank system for an EE/HL 0-6-0DE, the system works perfectly but the axles are far too short.

One more point worth making is that most models with outside cranks, including rtr, have them far too wide - to the extent of fouling platforms and ground signals at times.

Thanks Mike,

 

Bytham's platforms have been struck a few times by visiting locos with whirling outside cranks!

 

Though I wouldn't put your kits in the 'obscure' category, you've certainly produced some interesting ones. Including.........

 

 

This Hunslet diesel shunter, built by elder son Tom in his student days.

 

He built it in EM and it now runs on Retford (Sandra Orpen says she'll paint it one day!). 

 

He had it on display at one show and one observer would not accept that he'd built it (he was 19). 'That's your dad's work' he was told. He couldn't have been more wrong! 

 

I believe a couple of these actual locos were at Sheffield, so it's just possible one made it to Retford. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Tony Wright]

8 minutes ago, lezz01 said:

Omega models did a very nice looking slim boilered Johnson 4-4-0 kit that pops up on the bay for silly money from time to time.

Regards Lez.

Thanks Lez,

 

I don't have any photographs of Omega's kits, I'm afraid.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Michael Edge]

2 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Thanks Mike,

 

Bytham's platforms have been struck a few times by visiting locos with whirling outside cranks!

 

Though I wouldn't put your kits in the 'obscure' category, you've certainly produced some interesting ones. Including.........

 

 

This Hunslet diesel shunter, built by elder son Tom in his student days.

 

He built it in EM and it now runs on Retford (Sandra Orpen says she'll paint it one day!). 

 

He had it on display at one show and one observer would not accept that he'd built it (he was 19). 'That's your dad's work' he was told. He couldn't have been more wrong! 

 

I believe a couple of these actual locos were at Sheffield, so it's just possible one made it to Retford. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

I had a similar experience years ago when my so David (aged 7) built this.

Not much detail and no fancy mechanical work, it's on a Triang Jinty mechanism with Romford wheels but he cut the parts out from my drawing, soldered it all up and painted it. He entered it in a model making competition at his junior school only to be disqualified because the teachers thought I had built it.

[copleyhill007]

WSM also produced the N1 tank. Tony has one in his possession. Still in its box!

[MJI]

7 minutes ago, Michael Edge said:

I had a similar experience years ago when my so David (aged 7) built this.

Not much detail and no fancy mechanical work, it's on a Triang Jinty mechanism with Romford wheels but he cut the parts out from my drawing, soldered it all up and painted it. He entered it in a model making competition at his junior school only to be disqualified because the teachers thought I had built it.

 

Should have brought in some of yours, then see it runs in the family.

[lezz01]

Then of course there are the two Ratio kits for the slim boilered 4-4-0 and the 2-4-0 which do make up into nice looking models. However you have to get creative with drive systems and weight as they are plastic. I've built 3 2-4-0s and have found that if you put the motor in the tender and drive through a UJ to the loco which you can then fill with lead plus replacing all of the boiler fittings with brass or WM castings you can get them to pull a train quite well. The second issue of both of these kits are a vast improvement on the originals as they had a Perseverance chassis. The original 4-4-0 chassis is particularly useless but the 2-4-0 chassis is just about usable. My avatar is one of the 2-4-0s I built and painted myself. I have a couple of both types in stock but given Gibson's price hike it now costs over £30 for the boiler fittings and the availability of both types from LRM I think that the 2-4-0s will be bashed into Kirtley 800 class DF 2-4-0s.

I have some photos of the 2 locos I sold on ebay some years ago. 

Here's 239. sorry about the photo quality.

   Here's 254 which was my first attempt at the simplified Deeley livery.  

Both are EM and both are not very good photos they were taken with a Kodak digital camera which to be honest wasn't very good.

I don't have any photos of the third one I built which is a shame as it had all the drive train mods and worked well and had a better paint job as I changed the way I approached the issue of lining as seen on 239.

Regards Lez.  

[31A]

2 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

M&L did a range of GWR types............

 

Not only GW types, Tony.....

 

 

I bought this many decades ago, as tender-only kit.  It is mainly whitemetal but includes etched parts for coal rails, guard irons and brake gear, and the etch includes all the etched parts for the loco as well!  As you can see, the instructions are those for the complete kit as well.

 

I must have had some purpose in mind for it when I bought it, but whatever that was it remains unbuilt to this day.

 

[jwealleans]

 

4 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

I think this is WSM, though it could be K's; over to you, Jonathan............

 

You are correct, Tony - it's the bulbous sides to the firebox which give it away.   It was built by the late Phil Giffen who was President of Ely club when I joined.   I have remotored and repainted it for Grantham use.

 

Are you sure Coopercraft did an F4?   I thought it was an F3 and have never seen one either built or unbuilt (though I have met someone who had one).  I have the frames from Paul Dunn's aborted project to relaunch the kit and one day I will complete it for use on the Framlingham branch train on Wickham Market.    At the moment my thinking is to find an unbuilt E4 and use that as the basis for it.

 

 

 

 

 

[Michael Edge]

2 hours ago, MJI said:

 

Should have brought in some of yours, then see it runs in the family.

David's teachers were well aware of what I do for a living....

He had been sitting alongside me at my bench since he was 18 months old so he's actually had a long apprenticeship by then.

[Tony Wright]

11 minutes ago, jwealleans said:

 

 

You are correct, Tony - it's the bulbous sides to the firebox which give it away.   It was built by the late Phil Giffen who was President of Ely club when I joined.   I have remotored and repainted it for Grantham use.

 

Are you sure Coopercraft did an F4?   I thought it was an F3 and have never seen one either built or unbuilt (though I have met someone who had one).  I have the frames from Paul Dunn's aborted project to relaunch the kit and one day I will complete it for use on the Framlingham branch train on Wickham Market.    At the moment my thinking is to find an unbuilt E4 and use that as the basis for it.

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks for that info Jonathan,

 

I'm not sure; it's what the photo is listed as, so (I assume) that's what I was told by the bloke who brought it; but, I can't remember whom.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[jwealleans]

18 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

'm not sure; it's what the photo is listed as, so (I assume) that's what I was told by the bloke who brought it; but, I can't remember whom.

 

Now I look again, it looks more like an F3 and the number is certainly an F3: that's the one I was planning on building as it was the last survivor.   I'm not sure what's going on with that hatch behind the cab doors, though.

 

 

 

[Tony Wright]

2 hours ago, Michael Edge said:

I had a similar experience years ago when my so David (aged 7) built this.

Not much detail and no fancy mechanical work, it's on a Triang Jinty mechanism with Romford wheels but he cut the parts out from my drawing, soldered it all up and painted it. He entered it in a model making competition at his junior school only to be disqualified because the teachers thought I had built it.

Good afternoon Mike,

 

My compliments on David's exceptional work (at such a tender age, too).

 

As well as Tom's work being questioned, I had to go into John's school (our younger son) to 'prove' that the photographs he'd presented to illustrate his GSE CDT project were taken by him, developed by him and printed by him. He ran the risk of his work being disqualified because the teacher told him they were 'clearly the work of a professional'. 

 

When I told the moderator that I was (as part of my job) a professional photographer, and that from an early age John had used a professional camera (a Nikon F), developed film and then printed the results, using my darkroom, he understood, and the work was duly credited. 

 

On a wider level, does anyone try to take credit for your work? The reason I ask is that someone (no names) didn't acknowledge that a loco was built by me when he was 'congratulated' on it being 'wonderful'!' Cheating', even by omission, is something I will not tolerate. That's why, every time I post pictures I give due credit.

 

On another occasion, a member of WMRC arrived one club night, proudly showing 'his' latest loco. Praise was justifiably given, and he just beamed. Not so much, however, when it was discovered it had been built/painted by a local professional (I thought I recognised the work). He didn't actually say it was 'his' work, but neither did he say that it wasn't. Such 'omissioners' (if there is such a word) eventually get rumbled! 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Tony Wright]

2 hours ago, lezz01 said:

Then of course there are the two Ratio kits for the slim boilered 4-4-0 and the 2-4-0 which do make up into nice looking models. However you have to get creative with drive systems and weight as they are plastic. I've built 3 2-4-0s and have found that if you put the motor in the tender and drive through a UJ to the loco which you can then fill with lead plus replacing all of the boiler fittings with brass or WM castings you can get them to pull a train quite well. The second issue of both of these kits are a vast improvement on the originals as they had a Perseverance chassis. The original 4-4-0 chassis is particularly useless but the 2-4-0 chassis is just about usable. My avatar is one of the 2-4-0s I built and painted myself. I have a couple of both types in stock but given Gibson's price hike it now costs over £30 for the boiler fittings and the availability of both types from LRM I think that the 2-4-0s will be bashed into Kirtley 800 class DF 2-4-0s.

I have some photos of the 2 locos I sold on ebay some years ago. 

Here's 239. sorry about the photo quality.

   Here's 254 which was my first attempt at the simplified Deeley livery.  

Both are EM and both are not very good photos they were taken with a Kodak digital camera which to be honest wasn't very good.

I don't have any photos of the third one I built which is a shame as it had all the drive train mods and worked well and had a better paint job as I changed the way I approached the issue of lining as seen on 239.

Regards Lez.  

Thanks for those Lez,

 

Though I once had a Ratio 2-4-0 kit for sale, I never took its picture. 

 

I wonder how many folk actually got them to work?

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Tony Wright]

6 minutes ago, jwealleans said:

 

Now I look again, it looks more like an F3 and the number is certainly an F3: that's the one I was planning on building as it was the last survivor.   I'm not sure what's going on with that hatch behind the cab doors, though.

 

 

 

Thanks Jonathan,

 

I'll amend my picture's description.

 

Regards,

 

Tony