Wright writes.....

[Woodcock29]

Tony

I've built 4 Millholme Models over the years with one part built at the moment (and has been for some time).

First up an exGC LNER B5 built back in 1987. It should probably be lined but I have read that some of the GC black 4-6-0s were unlined in the late 30s. This loco is fitted with a small Portescap and is in use mostly on my 30 van fish train, many of which are whitemetal. I've got another of these unbuilt and another purchased built as a non-runner very cheap from which I plan on salvaging the boiler and firebox for use with a set of B9 etches by Mike Edge.  

 

 

An N5 built in the early 2000s. This powerer with a Mashima 12 series and Comet gearbox. 

 

More recently, about 10 years ago I built 2 ex L&Y Dreadnought 4-6-0s. One for me and the other for a friend. The were 2 distinct versions of the Dreadnoughts - the last 20 being built on frames that had been destined to be built as more 4-6-4Ts and were longer at the front end.  The interesting fact about this kit is that is is neither the later version nor the earlier version - its a compromise as it has features of each. the length is somewhere between the two. It has the roof profile of the later version but from memory the front frames are more like the earlier version. Also the boiler is under-size in both diameter and length (4mm too short). So I decided to build one of each type - working I think from drawings that might have been in BRM (?). I cut both footplates in strategic positions and rejoined them to the other part from the other kit. This gave me one longer footplate and one shorter to represent both versions - -possibly I made  a further cut at the front end above the buffer beam as the footplates are significantly different in this area but I can't remember.

 

New boilers were made from PVC water pipe of diameter very close to that needed being approx 0.5 mm too large from memory - but much better looking than being totally undersize. The firebox halves were joined but with a gap so they matched the wider boilers - the gap being filled with low melt solder (which in recent years appears to have marginally shrunk as the filled area is now visible on the top of the fireboxes! This is not the first time I noted low melt solder shrinking after being used to fill gaps - I'm being very wary of using this for such in the future).

 

I had to fashion a new cab roof for the earlier version with quite distinctive curves to the sides such that I had to create formers to shape this around. I also had to make up new front frame extensions for both to match variation in each type. The earlier version is fitted with a medium Portescap and the later version with a Buhler motor with Ultrascale gearbox but this does not run as well as the Portescap powered model -as I now own both I might well fit a medium Portescap the that model as I double-head them regularly. The photo below is of the later version with longer front end which also necessitated finding a longer bogie - boiler bands had not been added at this stage.

Th

 

The next photos shows the earlier version which has closer coupling of engine and tender as my curves are more generous than those on my late friend's layout.

 

and here they are double heading on the high level LMS part of my layout.

 

As indicated above I have another part built Millholme kit, a Q4 0-8-0 but I've struggled a bit with that but need to get back to it this year!

 

Andrew

 

 

[John Besley]

On 16/06/2024 at 12:09, Tony Wright said:

60013 was a regular on the 'Lizzie' in 1958.

 

 

 

Loverly shot Tony, you can almost feel the rush of parted air as she slams through LB with the chime whistle open ... leaving a train of dust and the odd bits of paper blowing in the wind

 

Never saw A4's untill No9 on the Torbay Expresses, but Being born in '59 I do remember Bullied's tearing through Sidmouth Jct in the mid 60's- happy days

[Tony Wright]

5 hours ago, Tony Teague said:

Tony

 

At the risk of giving you indigestion, I have two Millholme SR Urie H16 locos, the first of which is very familiar to you:

 

As a model I think it is a pretty reasonable (layout loco) representation of the prototype but I know that it was not an easy build, and to this day, the limitations of the track geometry on my layout mean that restrictions have been placed upon where it can run - essentially it's long wheelbase means that it struggles with my 2'6" radius curves - but this is also true of the 2nd H16 which I bought 2nd hand on flea-bay, although you have very kindly helped in improving it's running which was pretty poor at acquisition:

 

 

I am very partial to the large SR tanks but several of them have given me operational problems that seem to arise from the length of the wheelbase, v.s. the limitations of my track.

Tony

 

 

Thanks Tony,

 

I'd quite forgotten about the Millholme H16 I built for you.

 

I'm afraid the solution to getting it to run through your curves is to remove those prominent front steps. Many SR locos have this problem.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Tony Wright]

3 hours ago, John Besley said:

 

Loverly shot Tony, you can almost feel the rush of parted air as she slams through LB with the chime whistle open ... leaving a train of dust and the odd bits of paper blowing in the wind

 

Never saw A4's untill No9 on the Torbay Expresses, but Being born in '59 I do remember Bullied's tearing through Sidmouth Jct in the mid 60's- happy days

Thanks John, 

 

A few years in age difference in youth is crucial for remembering things from BR's steam age. Of no consequence now, but I was 13 when you were born. Thus old enough to remember A4s in their BR prime, at speed on the line for which they were built. 

 

In 1964, when the A4s were running in Scotland, some of my Cestrian railway enthusiast mates (we'd grown out of trainspotting by then) went on a week's tour north of the Border. To see A4s for the first time, and I was invited, but declined; having seen these great locos at Lincoln Road crossing, Gamston, Retford, Botany Bay, Doncaster, Selby, York, Thirsk and Darlington, running on an ex-Caledonian route just didn't seem right. What a fool, because I missed seeing the Scottish A2s and the variety of 0-6-0s still then running in Scotland. Ah well, we live with our regrets.

 

Regards,

 

Tony.  

[thegreenhowards]

You mentioned my Heart of Midlothian. I run it in its full original 13 coach formation.
 

 

In a similar way to red leaders Royal Scot, they’re all RTR Mk 1s (Hornby or Bachmann) except for the kitchen car and RSO which are Comet and, I think, Southern pride respectively.

 

 

 

Sorry for the poor resolution pictures. I’m on holiday and they were all I had access to.

 

Andy

 

 

Edited June 18 by thegreenhowards

[Tony Teague]

1 hour ago, Tony Wright said:

I'm afraid the solution to getting it to run through your curves is to remove those prominent front steps. Many SR locos have this problem.

 

I'm afraid that you are probably right!

Tony

[Dunsignalling]

45 minutes ago, Tony Teague said:

I'm afraid that you are probably right!

Tony

A couple of suggestions;

 

Plan A: Replace the thick cast steps with thinner etched brass, and mount them a millimetre further out than they should be. Comet LMS tender steps are a good starting point for SR front loco steps. That should probably be sufficient to get the loco round  30-inch curves, and only the most avid perfectionist is likely to spot it. Adding a gentle self-centering spring to the pony truck will further assist. 

 

Plan B: If that doesn't work, or for tighter curves, try fixing the steps to the pony truck. Cue howls of anguish from said perfectionist, but at typical layout viewing distances, it will go unnoticed by the casual observer surprisingly often.

 

John

 

 

Edited June 18 by Dunsignalling

[Tony Wright]

Readers might recall my selling of locos from the Peter Lawson collection over the last few months. 

 

One friend bought four, and is absolutely delighted with them. So much so that another friend took pictures of them running on the purchaser friend's layout........

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

They could do with a little dusting, Keith! 

 

I think this is wonderful. Peter's locos were lovingly-made and good runners, and it's marvellous to know that they're in good hands and, most important, being used; to everyone's enjoyment. 

 

 

[rowanj]

There have been a couple of recent comments on using inaccurate drawings when building stock, and Tony posted a variety of photos of DJH D20's. Both struck a chord, as I had recently built a NorthEastern (ArthurK) kit, with a scratch-built tender body- my first brass scratchbuild in many, many years.

 

The ArthurK kit is certainly the best way to go to get a D20. They are not always available, but I think he still has a small stock, They allow one to build all the main variations of the class, but the kit does not include the modified tender fitted to several locos from the 1940's to replace rusted/rotted ex-NER originals,.They were often attached to the longer-lasting locos. However, the only drawing seems to be a GA in the NRM, so I resorted to photos, Comments suggested the tenders were akin to 3500 gallon GS, but the dimensions were pretty different, as I discovered having cut out a pair of sides using the drawings from Isinglass.

 

The revised tender gives the D20 a quite different look, and not for the better in my opinion. But it makes a nice change from the usual model, and fits my layout/period modelled. It was a first venture into etched brass modelling, and I would make a better job next time, but I thought it may be of interest, and show that most folks can "have a go" at scratchbuilding.

 

Edited June 18 by rowanj

[Captain Kernow]

25 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Readers might recall my selling of locos from the Peter Lawson collection over the last few months. 

 

One friend bought four, and is absolutely delighted with them. So much so that another friend took pictures of them running on the purchaser friend's layout........

 

I think this is wonderful. Peter's locos were lovingly-made and good runners, and it's marvellous to know that they're in good hands and, most important, being used; to everyone's enjoyment. 

Here are a few from me, featuring the two panniers and the BR Standard Class 2 2-6-2T that I bought from Tony from the Peter Lawson collection. There are other locos, but the layout isn't up at the moment, so I'd rather pose them in a scenic setting. However, I may be able to take a few photos on a friends layout in a few days.

 

 

 

The two panniers have been renumbered since I bought them.

 

 

 

These are truly lovely locos to own and operate, well built, good runners and nicely weathered.

 

Edited June 18 by Captain Kernow

[Tony Wright]

So nice were they, that I purchased a couple or so of the Peter Lawson locos. Including............

 

 

 

This old Wills 4F (though on an etched chassis). It was really the only one in the whole collection which didn't run 'perfectly', inasmuch it made rather a racket. No matter, a minor adjustment on the drive and a drop of oil, and she's settled down to work on the MR/M&GNR bit of LB, quietly and smoothly. 

 

One visual thing which concerned me was the tender. It's clearly the ancient Wills one, with no vertical or horizontal strapping on the tender sides and no brakes. Though difficult to see under the weathering, the BR device is the large one (very rare on a 4F) and only (it would seem) applied in Scotland. What to do?

 

 

Easy, build a replacement tender! Which I've done, using an SEF body (much-improved on the old Wills one, its predecessor) and a Comet sub-frame. 

 

 

 

I'm delighted with the end result, particularly the matching of the weathering. Peter had weathered the loco with an airbrush, but, since I don't own such a thing, my weathering is by sable/enamel/dry-brushing, and it seems to suit just fine. 

 

Whether a Crewe South-allocated 4F would ever venture this far east is a moot point; a train to Derby, then further on to Nottingham and beyond? Maybe, but its number won't be altered. 

 

Though I've made more than enough 4Fs for the MR/M&GNR bit, it's nice to own such lovely work of others. 

 

 

 

[Tony Wright]

7 minutes ago, Captain Kernow said:

Here are a few from me, featuring the two panniers and the BR Standard Class 2 2-6-2T that I bought from Tony from the Peter Lawson collection. There are other locos, but the layout isn't up at the moment, so I'd rather pose them in a scenic setting. However, I may be able to take a few photos on a friends layout in a few days.

 

 

 

The two panniers have been renumbered since I bought them.

 

 

 

These are truly lovely locos to own and operate, well built, good runners and nicely weathered.

 

Thanks Captain.

 

As you say, lovely!

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[robertcwp]

13 hours ago, Coach bogie said:

The challenge for any WR train using RTR is the dining car. Even prestige trains like the Bristolian used ex GWR dining cars for some time. Mk 1 diners came late to the western.

 

The only RTR ex GWR diner has incorrect windows for BR days as the Hornby H33 was rebuilt with Mk 1 type windows in the late 1930's, but the Hornby model is in as built condition.

 

Swindon fitted Pullman gangway adapters to many GWR diners to couple with mark 1's as most ex GWR were rebuilt from postwar and into the 1950's there was no rush to replace them with BR built diners with many lasting until the early 1960's in front line service. Note there was never a Hawksworth style diner as the newly rebuilt 30's diners were like new, when the Hawksworth corridor stock came along.

 

Mike Wiltshire

The WR had the five Diag 16 kitchen firsts from 1952 but they were unpopular on the region. They received the first production batch of Mark 1 catering cars in 1957, unclassed restaurants (RU), including some in chocolate and cream, which went into named trains such as The Torbay Express, Capitals United Express, Pembroke Coast Express and Cambrian Coast Express. Other named trains, such as the Cornish Riviera and Bristolian retained GWR designs much longer. I agree that the lack of a decent GWR design dining car is a serious omission from RTR ranges.

[robertcwp]

On 17/06/2024 at 09:55, Tony Wright said:

Carrying on with the topic of BR prototype trains (and I wrote an article on such matters for BRM many years ago), I wonder how many could be made-up (in OO) today using solely RTR vehicles? 

 

Prior to Bachmann's introduction of its BR Mk.1s (30 years ago?) it would have been impossible, but not now. As mentioned, I formed the morning 'Talisman' completely (and accurately) using these new cars, writing about it in BRM at the time. Yes, new couplings, replacement wheelsets, concertina gangways, removal of the awful roof ribs and a little weathering were essentials, but nothing dramatic. 

 

 

I even used a modified Bachmann A4 on its front (altered/detailed body, SEF tender and an Ian Rathbone paint job), but the lousy split chassis did just that - split! I thus built an SEF chassis for it, as seen above. 

 

It's been my privilege to photograph Shap on a couple of occasions (the WCML's equivalent to Stoke Summit in model form?), and Graham Nicholas has certainly exploited Bachmann Mk.1s to good advantage; to form the core of trains such as..........

 

 

'The Caledonian', hauled by CITY OF LONDON (DJH/Wright/Haynes), but not carrying the headboard on this occasion. What the origins of the two ex-LMS cars in the formation are, I don't know.

 

 

 

And the 'Royal Scot' (all Bachmann MK.1s?). 

 

Could other Regions' trains be made-up from Bachmann's Mk.1s?

 

Regarding the ER/NER/ScR ones, most of 'The Flying Scotsman' and (all?) 'The Heart of Midlothian' perhaps? 

 

Bytham's 'Flying Scotsman' is made-up almost entirely from Bachmann Mk.1s, the exception being the Thompson SK with ladies' retiring room.

 

 

 

 

 

I vary the locos hauling it, and occasionally vehicles in the train.

 

I thinks Andy Sparkes' 'Heart of Midlothian'............

 

 

Is made-up mainly of Bachmann Mk.1s.

 

Though Stoke Summit's HoM............

 

 

Was made-up entirely from Southern Pride Mk.1s (built by Dave Lewis from his own kits). 

 

What about the likes of the WR's 'Bristolian' or the SR's 'Royal Wessex'? Could they be formed from Bachmann (and/or Hornby) Mk.1s. Has anyone made these trains? 

 

 

 

 

The first Bachmann Mark 1s appeared in 1999, so 25 years ago. With their forthcoming BSO, RB and FO (all types recently done less well by Hornby), it will be possible to model many more expresses of the late BR steam and early diesel eras just with Bachmann RTR stock, but there are still some significant omissions, such as the full kitchen car, restaurant second open, restaurant first (Diag 17) and kitchen buffet (Diag 25). Lots of expresses retained pre-nationalisation catering cars into the 1960s. On the ECML, most of the remaining ones were seen off by the final batch of Mark 1 RUs, E1959-91, which had Commonwealth bogies.

 

The production Mark 1 catering cars did not appear until 1957 (1960 in the case of the RB), so missed out on the crimson and cream era. Only the small batches built in 1951-2 (ten Diag 700 RK, five Diag 16 RF and accompanying open dining cars) plus the 1956 prototype RU carried crimson and cream.

 

As an aside, a colour photo of the prototype RU in crimson and cream has recently appeared in print, taken by Michael Mensing in 1959 and in the new RCTS colour album of his work (Vol 2).

[russell price]

Would anyone know the make up of the Cambrian Coast Express in the50s/ 60s especially the portions that ran west of Shrewsbury?

[robertcwp]

31 minutes ago, russell price said:

Would anyone know the make up of the Cambrian Coast Express in the50s/ 60s especially the portions that ran west of Shrewsbury?

Try this. It lists the formations on departure from Paddington.

 

In the early 1960s, the Autobuffet was added at Shrewsbury and ran to Aberystwyth. At busy times, carriages for local traffic were added to the Pwllheli portion along the Cambrian Coast. Summer Saturday workings were different. 

Edited June 18 by robertcwp
Add a bit.

[Northmoor]

1 hour ago, robertcwp said:

The first Bachmann Mark 1s appeared in 1999, so 25 years ago. With their forthcoming BSO, RB and FO (all types recently done less well by Hornby), it will be possible to model many more expresses of the late BR steam and early diesel eras just with Bachmann RTR stock, but there are still some significant omissions, such as the full kitchen car, restaurant second open, restaurant first (Diag 17) and kitchen buffet (Diag 25).

Since there were only about a dozen of them and they were only used on the few top-link services that had enough diners to justify them, I couldn't see many modellers being interested.  Then I remembered how many models of the prototype BR diesels have been sold, despite most of them having very restricted areas and periods of operation.  Sometimes people will just buy one because it's available and if they have a layout to run it, Rule One is applied as necessary......

[Tony Teague]

5 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

A couple of suggestions;

 

Plan A: Replace the thick cast steps with thinner etched brass, and mount them a millimetre further out than they should be. Comet LMS tender steps are a good starting point for SR front loco steps. That should probably be sufficient to get the loco round  30-inch curves, and only the most avid perfectionist is likely to spot it. Adding a gentle self-centering spring to the pony truck will further assist. 

 

Plan B: If that doesn't work, or for tighter curves, try fixing the steps to the pony truck. Cue howls of anguish from said perfectionist, but at typical layout viewing distances, it will go unnoticed by the casual observer surprisingly often.

 

John

Thanks John

As you may imagine, several attempts have already been made to clear this issue but I will certainly look at your helpful suggestions and see if these will make sufficient difference as to resolve the problem.

Tony

[robertcwp]

7 hours ago, Northmoor said:

Since there were only about a dozen of them and they were only used on the few top-link services that had enough diners to justify them, I couldn't see many modellers being interested.  Then I remembered how many models of the prototype BR diesels have been sold, despite most of them having very restricted areas and periods of operation.  Sometimes people will just buy one because it's available and if they have a layout to run it, Rule One is applied as necessary......

There were 41 kitchen cars of three diagrams but only Diag 702 made it as far as blue/grey. 

[NZRedBaron]

A question for you, Tony- or for any of your fine friends, in fact.

 

I'm in the market to adding a fourth Gresley A1/A3 to my personal roster, for my ever in-the-planning-stages pre-War LNER (roughly 1936-early 1939) layout; at present I have Royal Lancer, Gladiateur, and Humorist. I'm currently considering getting a second hand FS and renumbering and renaming to one of the others of the class, but I don't have the knowledge or any particular preference for which it might become, so I thought I'd open the floor to suggestions.

[Tony Wright]

11 hours ago, robertcwp said:

The WR had the five Diag 16 kitchen firsts from 1952 but they were unpopular on the region. They received the first production batch of Mark 1 catering cars in 1957, unclassed restaurants (RU), including some in chocolate and cream, which went into named trains such as The Torbay Express, Capitals United Express, Pembroke Coast Express and Cambrian Coast Express. Other named trains, such as the Cornish Riviera and Bristolian retained GWR designs much longer. I agree that the lack of a decent GWR design dining car is a serious omission from RTR ranges.

Good morning Robert,

 

I recall a day's spotting at Temple Meads in about 1961. A Warship arrived on the Down 'Bristolian', composed of a complete rake of BR Mk.1s, all in chocolate/cream, apart from the catering car; which was in maroon. Looking back, I doubt if I'd identified it, but was it probably ex-GWR? 

 

The main memory of the day is the number of announcements apologising for the late arrival of trains due to 'locomotive failure'. They should have been qualified by the use of 'diesel'! One express arrived with a gleaming Warship on the front; except it wasn't exactly at the front. It came in behind the dirtiest County I'd ever seen!

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Tony Wright]

1 hour ago, NZRedBaron said:

A question for you, Tony- or for any of your fine friends, in fact.

 

I'm in the market to adding a fourth Gresley A1/A3 to my personal roster, for my ever in-the-planning-stages pre-War LNER (roughly 1936-early 1939) layout; at present I have Royal Lancer, Gladiateur, and Humorist. I'm currently considering getting a second hand FS and renumbering and renaming to one of the others of the class, but I don't have the knowledge or any particular preference for which it might become, so I thought I'd open the floor to suggestions.

Good morning,

 

If you buy a second-hand FLYING SCOTSMAN, make note of its tender. She had a GNR tender from new until 1928 (apart from the K3 tender attached for the Empire Exhibition), when she got a corridor tender. This was kept until 1936, when a GNR type was reattached. This was retained until 1938, when a streamlined non-corridor type was coupled, which accompanied her to withdrawal in 1963 (that tender then going behind LORD FARINGDON). Throughout all these tender changes, she was an A1, only becoming an A3 in 1947. By 1938, any corridor tenders were behind A4s. 

 

Thus, whichever tender the SH model comes with will dictate your choice for renumbering. Chapter and verse will be given in the RCTS Part 2A, the Irwell Book on the A1s/A3s and the appropriate Yeadon.

 

I hope this helps.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[NZRedBaron]

That's fair enough; I admit, I'd been looking on TMC, and was half tempted by a cheap Book Law I saw there; but then I saw that there's apparently a lot of horror stories about models of that engine having an incredibly shoddy build quality.

[jwealleans]

Nothing wrong with the build quality if you find one with a straight running plate.   A lot of them had a pronounced droop towards the front (I think due to faulty assembly).   I have one on Grantham which was fine and another which awaits a rebody, but both run as well as any others.

 

The NRM special edition Flying Scotsman models, in my (probably limited) experience seem to be better quality than main range ones and were the only way to get a 1930s condition A3 until Book Law appeared.

[St Enodoc]

14 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

So nice were they, that I purchased a couple or so of the Peter Lawson locos. Including............

 

 

 

This old Wills 4F (though on an etched chassis). It was really the only one in the whole collection which didn't run 'perfectly', inasmuch it made rather a racket. No matter, a minor adjustment on the drive and a drop of oil, and she's settled down to work on the MR/M&GNR bit of LB, quietly and smoothly. 

 

One visual thing which concerned me was the tender. It's clearly the ancient Wills one, with no vertical or horizontal strapping on the tender sides and no brakes. Though difficult to see under the weathering, the BR device is the large one (very rare on a 4F) and only (it would seem) applied in Scotland. What to do?

 

 

Easy, build a replacement tender! Which I've done, using an SEF body (much-improved on the old Wills one, its predecessor) and a Comet sub-frame. 

 

 

 

I'm delighted with the end result, particularly the matching of the weathering. Peter had weathered the loco with an airbrush, but, since I don't own such a thing, my weathering is by sable/enamel/dry-brushing, and it seems to suit just fine. 

 

Whether a Crewe South-allocated 4F would ever venture this far east is a moot point; a train to Derby, then further on to Nottingham and beyond? Maybe, but its number won't be altered. 

 

Though I've made more than enough 4Fs for the MR/M&GNR bit, it's nice to own such lovely work of others. 

 

 

 

I bought five of Peter's coaches, with @LNER4479 as the middle-man, which are now in service on the Mid-Cornwall Lines. They're a mixture of BSL, Comet and (I think) Blacksmith kits.

 

The four on the right form a set on their own, while the one on the left forms part of another set. They are very nice models.