Wright writes.....

[Ian Hargrave]

22 minutes ago, gwrrob said:

 

Oh come on Mr H @Ian Hargrave it's not a Castle now is it.🙄

But they were frequently seen together.Even taking over each other’s trains.

[1471SirFrederickBanbury]

10 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Good morning Willie,

 

So many threads relating to new models seem negative these days. Though I look occasionally (I've just responded on the relevant thread), I prefer to come to my own conclusions. 

 

I wonder why so many 'commentators' and video makers (influencers?) are so hostile?

 

The latest Hornby Black Five comes in at over £200.00 (analogue). Were I to make an equivalent DJH/Alan Gibson kit for one on commission, and ask Ian Rathbone or Geoff Haynes to paint it to Hornby's standard of finish, it would cost in excess of five times as much!

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

I think I pulled out a calculator when the new black 5 was announced and figured out that for roughly the same price, I could buy:

 

an old super detail black 5 (spares/repairs/non-runner of course),

 

a Brassmasters super detailing pack,  

 

replacement frames from Comet

 

a new coreless motor, gearbox, and hornblocks from High Level,

 

while still having a bit over 10 quid methinks(?) for lead/tungsten/or whatever heavy scrap metal.

 

sounds like a better deal, considering that I could have a better detailed, smooth, sprung, excellent runner, and possibly have it all finished before Hornby released theirs.  I model pre-war LNER though, of course.

[Steamport Southport]

10 minutes ago, 1471SirFrederickBanbury said:

I think I pulled out a calculator when the new black 5 was announced and figured out that for roughly the same price, I could buy:

 

an old super detail black 5 (spares/repairs/non-runner of course),

 

a Brassmasters super detailing pack,  

 

replacement frames from Comet

 

a new coreless motor, gearbox, and hornblocks from High Level,

 

while still having a bit over 10 quid methinks(?) for lead/tungsten/or whatever heavy scrap metal.

 

sounds like a better deal, considering that I could have a better detailed, smooth, sprung, excellent runner, and possibly have it all finished before Hornby released theirs.  I model pre-war LNER though, of course.

 

I don't think you will be close....

 

£25 detailing pack

Comet chassis £52.50

HL motor and gearbox - £18 + £35 (for a decent size 1626 motor - it's not a small shunter!)

No mention of wheels? That's another £50 plus. £10 x 3 plus £3.70 x 5 from Gibson. Double that if you use Markits!

 

Add in P&P.

 

That's nearly £200 before you even buy an old Hornby Black Five.

 

The new Hornby ones are currently £205.....

 

As for the last statement. They are in the shops!

 

https://www.kernowmodelrailcentre.com/p/74169/R30226-Hornby-Stanier-Black-5-Loco-45157-Glasgow-Highlander

 

 

 

Jason

[polybear]

52 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

No mention of wheels? That's another £50 plus. £10 x 3 plus £3.70 x 5 from Gibson. Double that if you use Markits!

 

 

Now if only Hornby & Bachmann were to start using Markits - style self quartering wheels and 1/8th axles; it'd certainly open up a whole new world of possibilities when it comes to conversions, new chassis etc. - as well as to make maintenance and repairs far simpler

Edited June 5 by polybear

[Northmoor]

11 hours ago, Jol Wilkinson said:

"I wonder why so many 'commentators' and video makers (influencers?) are so hostile?"

 

Inadequacy? They can Talk the Talk but perhaps cannot Walk the Walk, so enjoy criticising what others do.

 

If you only praise, it might imply you don't know enough to spot the faults.

If you criticise, it implies you must have the knowledge to know what's wrong.  Of course you may be the one that's wrong, but you gamble that your audience is unaware of that.

Not in the world of modelling, but I have on occasion smiled quietly while some enthusiast gave me the benefit of their "inside knowledge" on how much potential market there was for operating the locomotive I was involved in restoring to non-working order (fact: we'd be lucky to make back 1% of what we spent on restoration).

[Captain Kernow]

1 minute ago, Northmoor said:

If you only praise, it might imply you don't know enough to spot the faults.

If you criticise, it implies you must have the knowledge to know what's wrong.  Of course you may be the one that's wrong, but you gamble that your audience is unaware of that.

This sounds a bit like a description of a politician, who's trying to pretend to be a model railway enthusiast...

 

[Tony Wright]

On the subject of Black Fives, many have appeared on Little Bytham. Most of the following images will have been seen before, but in some cases hundreds of pages back. I've done my best to remember what's what. 

 

 

Bob Paddison brought along this DJH 'Black Five' he'd built.

 

 

This kit-built Black Five came from the collection of the late Brian Lee.

 

 

 

I can't recall who brought along this rather splendid Caprotti Black Five.

 

 

But Iain Henderson brought his (equally-splendid) one.

 

 

 

I built/painted a Comet Caprotti Black Five, which saw service on Charwelton. 

 

 

Who brought this one, I can't recall.

 

 

Nor where this one came from. 

 

 

I built a Model Loco Black Five, which Geoff Haynes painted.

 

 

At the same time as I upgraded some older Hornby Black Fives as part of a 'budget modelling' exercise (transfer lining cannot match the work of those skilled in the use of a bow pen!).

 

 

 

 

Which turned into (I hope) 'acceptable' models. Certainly, the chap who bought them thought so. 

 

One of the most interesting Black Fives to run on Bytham..............

 

 

 

Was this example with Stephenson's valve gear, but who brought it? 

 

I built the adjacent DJH A2/2, which Geoff Haynes painted.

 

Would anyone like to show us their Black Fives, whatever their origins? 

 

 

[Richard_A]

The caprotti versions are bloody ugly things. 🤐

 

[MarkC]

44767 fascinates me. I first saw her in 1971 at Carnforth, where it was awaiting restoration, but her significance escaped me at my then tender age...

 

I most recently saw her, in action, some 10 years ago on the Worth Valley. That valve gear - wow!

 

I understand that she was regarded as a good 'un, which presumably explains why withdrawal wasn't until late 1967, even though she was a one-off, & then only because by then there really were more locomotives available than the remaining traffic warranted. Her last shed was Carlisle (Kingmoor), I think.

 

Mark

Edited June 5 by MarkC

[Clive Mortimore]

57 minutes ago, Richard_A said:

The caprotti versions are bloody ugly things. 🤐

 

But worth having a go at modelling.

I have started, so I might finish.

[1471SirFrederickBanbury]

3 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

I don't think you will be close....

 

£25 detailing pack

Comet chassis £52.50

HL motor and gearbox - £18 + £35 (for a decent size 1626 motor - it's not a small shunter!)

No mention of wheels? That's another £50 plus. £10 x 3 plus £3.70 x 5 from Gibson. Double that if you use Markits!

 

Add in P&P.

 

That's nearly £200 before you even buy an old Hornby Black Five.

 

The new Hornby ones are currently £205.....

 

As for the last statement. They are in the shops!

 

https://www.kernowmodelrailcentre.com/p/74169/R30226-Hornby-Stanier-Black-5-Loco-45157-Glasgow-Highlander

 

 

 

Jason

I think I reasoned that the wheels of the Hornby black five can be reused, as 3mm is close enough to 1/8” to drill/broach perpendicularly by hand.  

I didn’t include P&P, as I live in the states, so that would be a nightmare to deal with either way.

 

I did find some rather temptingly cheap super detail black 5s at the time, so I think between all of the above and my personal satisfaction of having locos that I have built/rebuilt, that it would be about the same.

 

 Then again, I am the type of person who is insane enough to have made most of my couplings from bits of wire I’ve found on the floor.

 

 I say that, because that’s exactly what I’ve done, and enjoyed being able to engage in such an effort from a young age.  

 

It’s perhaps too much fun for me seeing my older rolling stock, fitted with dead scale, homemade 3 links go around 18” curves without fault!
 

I do understand that not everyone enjoys those same building/rebuilding endeavours, which is one of the main reasons Hornby exists at at.

[St Enodoc]

12 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

I thought the lamps detached though?

These look as though they do, although on other models they seem to be fixed. That doesn't help with the mis-shapen, over-sized, over-bright appearance when they are attached.

 

12 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

As for reviews look at proper ones by people who actually know a little about what they are talking about.

I rarely look at video reviews, regardless of who they are by.

 

12 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

However, is £200 such a large amount for a large locomotive model in 2024?

No but that doesn't excuse spoiling the ship for a ha'p'orth of tar.

 

12 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

Seems some want high end models at Railroad range prices.

I have never said that.

[Tony Wright]

9 hours ago, Clive Mortimore said:

But worth having a go at modelling.

I have started, so I might finish.

Good morning Clive,

 

Your two Caprottis are perfect examples of what 'modelling' used to be like; taking a relatively 'basic' model (I assume these use older Hornby Black Fives as a basis?) and turning it into something different/more-accurate/interesting by a mixture of personal creativity and self reliance. Not only that, at considerably less cost than the over-£200.00 now asked for 'larger' tender locomotives RTR. You'll also have created something unique, and nobody else will have the same.

 

I take it some of the fittings are commercial items? If so, good on you for supporting those small manufacturers (a decreasing-in-number band) who make such things.

 

I'm reminded of the magazine articles of many decades ago, where, two months or so after a review of a new model was published, say, that of a Tri-ang B12, someone had converted it into a D16, or even a B12! That required personal modelling, a commodity I see diminishing today as many folk won't contemplate 'altering' their latest piece of RTR wonderment because they can't, wont, don't want to 'devalue' it or they'll pay someone else to do it for them. 

 

Best regards,

 

Tony. 

[zr2498]

10 hours ago, Clive Mortimore said:

But worth having a go at modelling.

I have started, so I might finish.

Clive

As a matter of interest, when you add detailing / mod's such as this, how do you go about the painting / finishing. Would it need a complete respray or part painting for example.

I'm asking as wanting to add Brassmasters detailing to some older Black 5s.

 

Dave

[dibateg]

I don't have many digital pictures of my 4mm collection back in the day. I had two or three Black fives, one built from a K's kit with a scratchbuilt steel strip set of frames, a Model Loco one and an Alan Gibson one.

 

I think 44847 is the Gibson one...

 

The thing that glares out on the Model Loco kit is that the pitch of the top of the firebox is to steep. There was an article ( MRJ I think ) where that was corrected, and I followed suit. In the Gibson one, the boiler was too short ( corrected )! The K's one... well, it looked like a Black 5.... The 'D' axles wheels were soon discarded.

 

Given the choice now - I'd buy the Hornby one and tinker with it.

[Sayajirao]

47 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Good morning Clive,

 

Your two Caprottis are perfect examples of what 'modelling' used to be like; taking a relatively 'basic' model (I assume these use older Hornby Black Fives as a basis?) and turning it into something different/more-accurate/interesting by a mixture of personal creativity and self reliance. Not only that, at considerably less cost than the over-£200.00 now asked for 'larger' tender locomotives RTR. You'll also have created something unique, and nobody else will have the same.

 

I take it some of the fittings are commercial items? If so, good on you for supporting those small manufacturers (a decreasing-in-number band) who make such things.

 

I'm reminded of the magazine articles of many decades ago, where, two months or so after a review of a new model was published, say, that of a Tri-ang B12, someone had converted it into a D16, or even a B12! That required personal modelling, a commodity I see diminishing today as many folk won't contemplate 'altering' their latest piece of RTR wonderment because they can't, wont, don't want to 'devalue' it or they'll pay someone else to do it for them. 

 

Best regards,

 

Tony. 

During the mid 1980's-1990's much of my building was concentrated on converting then new Hornby models using the Crownline conversion kits. Those that spring to mind were the 9F Crosti, B17 to B1, Ivatt 2-6-0 to 2-6-2 tank and a few others and upping the detail on 9Fs, Black Fives and A3s etc. Our mutual good friend Tommy saw the output and was complimentary at the time, unfortunately I don't have any photos as they are all long gone having got a good price on ebay twenty plus years ago. Unfortunately I didn't go the whole hog and build decent chassis' for them. I personally am not interested in what happens to the value of "altered/modified" current models and also have a Caprotti on order, although would much prefer the high running plate version although I do have a Crownline conversion kit for this though in the "to do" cupboard. I have recently had Tom Foster weather four loco's for me and am well pleased with the result, I hope that they are now much devalued, but not in my eyes!

[thegreenhowards]

41 minutes ago, zr2498 said:

Clive

As a matter of interest, when you add detailing / mod's such as this, how do you go about the painting / finishing. 

He doesn’t get that far - Patchwork locos are all the rage you know!

 

 

[Clive Mortimore]

52 minutes ago, zr2498 said:

Clive

As a matter of interest, when you add detailing / mod's such as this, how do you go about the painting / finishing. Would it need a complete respray or part painting for example.

I'm asking as wanting to add Brassmasters detailing to some older Black 5s.

 

Dave

 

10 minutes ago, thegreenhowards said:

He doesn’t get that far - Patchwork locos are all the rage you know!

 

 

Hi Dave

 

As Andy says I don't normally get that far, but my intention is to do a full repaint.

[Clive Mortimore]

2 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Good morning Clive,

 

Your two Caprottis are perfect examples of what 'modelling' used to be like; taking a relatively 'basic' model (I assume these use older Hornby Black Fives as a basis?) and turning it into something different/more-accurate/interesting by a mixture of personal creativity and self reliance. Not only that, at considerably less cost than the over-£200.00 now asked for 'larger' tender locomotives RTR. You'll also have created something unique, and nobody else will have the same.

 

I take it some of the fittings are commercial items? If so, good on you for supporting those small manufacturers (a decreasing-in-number band) who make such things.

 

I'm reminded of the magazine articles of many decades ago, where, two months or so after a review of a new model was published, say, that of a Tri-ang B12, someone had converted it into a D16, or even a B12! That required personal modelling, a commodity I see diminishing today as many folk won't contemplate 'altering' their latest piece of RTR wonderment because they can't, wont, don't want to 'devalue' it or they'll pay someone else to do it for them. 

 

Best regards,

 

Tony. 

Hello Tony,

 

The boiler mountings are from 247 Models.

 

You are correct about the locos being the older Hornby product. The high running plate loco I spotted on E-bay, it is an old tender pushed loco. It was £20 as the loco wheels didn't go round, once I had freed the super glue off the axles it was a runner. The other one is a Hornby Railroad model which was discounted, about £50. Both have the wrong wheelbase and are a few millimeters short but if I carry on getting enjoyment in converting them the odd wrong dimension will not bother me.

[Captain Kernow]

I once made a K's Black 5 for a friend, almost 40 years ago now. In the end I was happy with the result (unlined LMS black), but it was a struggle to fettle the castings to get them to fit properly. The only photos I have of it are non-digital and without a working scanner at the moment, I would have to take a photo of a photo using my phone...

 

[Not Jeremy]

1 minute ago, Captain Kernow said:

I once made a K's Black 5 for a friend, almost 40 years ago now. In the end I was happy with the result (unlined LMS black), but it was a struggle to fettle the castings to get them to fit properly. The only photos I have of it are non-digital and without a working scanner at the moment, I would have to take a photo of a photo using my phone...

 

 

Well come on then, can't Jeeves do that for you?

 

You have huge skill at making unworkable kits into working models, as I recall.

 

And the odd working models into slightly less well working models too, tee hee!

 

Personally it is the going round, "up and down", and "in and out" bits of any model that I find most challenging and of least inherent interest. But trains do look better with wheels going round, so I had better persevere. You will be able to come and laugh at my current efforts at Railwells...

[Captain Kernow]

1 minute ago, Not Jeremy said:

Well come on then, can't Jeeves do that for you?

Day off...

 

[Captain Kernow]

5 minutes ago, Not Jeremy said:

You will be able to come and laugh at my current efforts at Railwells...

A bit sooner than that, surely, Dear Heart?

 

Won't you have them with you at the LarkRail International Festival of Railways and Bananas Byways?

 

[Richard_A]

12 hours ago, Clive Mortimore said:

But worth having a go at modelling.

I have started, so I might finish.

They look good, but ugly. 

 

I've always thought that the black fives and Jubilees to be well balanced looks wise, but the caprotti versions of the black five lose the finely balanced proportions, to me anyway. 

[Not Jeremy]

13 minutes ago, Captain Kernow said:

A bit sooner than that, surely, Dear Heart?

 

Won't you have them with you at the LarkRail International Festival of Railways and Bananas Byways?

 

 

Ah, possibly not, but other Gauge One-ery will be on view, including this magnifique piece of Plastikard mangling from Dave Easto:

 

 

I will likely be wandering around in some sort of quasi organisational cum spectating daze, something along the lines of young Mr Grace I would imagine - "you've all done very well...." Thank goodness we have Jerry and Kim(!)

 

At Railwells I have solemnly undertaken to bring something of my own, big and green, with lots of wheels. Which may go round...