Wright writes.....

[Dunsignalling]

10 hours ago, john new said:

A few pages back mention was made of errors in some (all?) of the Roche drawings. I have a King Arthur kit to build (S E Finecast) plus a tender kit (an old Crownline) and the 2nd tender (the Crownline) has at least one major part missing, namely, the tender floor and therefore the bogie mounting points.

 

If I need to reference a drawing the only one's I have in paper format are the Roche King Arthur loco and bogie tender drawings as included in the Historic Locos drawings book. Are these sufficiently accurate in dimensions to check what I have in the kit against what should be there? Were any in a back edition of Railway Modeller as I have access to that digital archive if there were.

 

Thanks in advance for any assistance given.

 

 

Railway Modeller, November 2001 (drawn by Bob Phelps) according to my index.

 

Also January 1961, by a Mr. Stephenson.

 

Model Railway Constructor, April 1978, by a Mr. Ely.

 

Edited September 12 by Dunsignalling

[Pebbles]

45 minutes ago, Dunsignalling said:

 

Railway Modeller, November 2001 according to my index.

Model Railways John Gardener Drawing, don't remember the issue. If your SEF kit doesn't have a one piece boiler then it is the earlier issue based on the very inaccurate Roche drawing.

[Michael Edge]

Here's my drawing, for scale coupled wheelbase is 58mm.

Dimensions taken from pipe and rod diagram, these are often more accurate than GAs.

[jacko]

 

16 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

L

 

 

 

 

 

 

Bachmann's 2-4-2 tank in Crimson is a very pretty little loco but on the track it is an appalling runner. Both front and rear bogies ride up going over Code 75 points and derail EVERY TIME, even when going straight on.  I have it and I'm very disappointed. When I have time I'll be performing major surgery in the hope that I can bring it under control.   Their 0-6-2 Webb coal tank is no better. Something is fundamentally wrong with the design of the bogies.

 

Graeme

[t-b-g]

46 minutes ago, Michael Edge said:

Here's my drawing, for scale coupled wheelbase is 58mm.

Dimensions taken from pipe and rod diagram, these are often more accurate than GAs.

 

Lovely stuff Mike but I think the original enquiry was about the bogie spacing on the tender. Did you do a drawing for that?

[john new]

3 hours ago, Pebbles said:

Model Railways John Gardener Drawing, don't remember the issue. If your SEF kit doesn't have a one piece boiler then it is the earlier issue based on the very inaccurate Roche drawing.

Thanks for the info'. Have just been into the kit stash to check, the boiler is a single piece so hopefully not too inaccurate. 

[Izzy]

41 minutes ago, john new said:

Thanks for the info'. Have just been into the kit stash to check, the boiler is a single piece so hopefully not too inaccurate. 

 

As your query concerns the tender bogie spacing could you not just use the dimensions given with the Roche drawing as they should be correct, even if perhaps the actual drawing isn't ?

 

Bob

[Pebbles]

46 minutes ago, john new said:

Thanks for the info'. Have just been into the kit stash to check, the boiler is a single piece so hopefully not too inaccurate. 

I can confirm that modifying within reason the original kit, the revised kit used the Gardener drawing as a reference.

[Barry Ten]

2 hours ago, jacko said:

 

 

Bachmann's 2-4-2 tank in Crimson is a very pretty little loco but on the track it is an appalling runner. Both front and rear bogies ride up going over Code 75 points and derail EVERY TIME, even when going straight on.  I have it and I'm very disappointed. When I have time I'll be performing major surgery in the hope that I can bring it under control.   Their 0-6-2 Webb coal tank is no better. Something is fundamentally wrong with the design of the bogies.

 

Graeme

 

Suspect that may be an issue with your model, rather than a general one, as mine is fine over Code 75 points. I've a short clip of it running here, but you'll have to take my word that it goes around the layout without derailments:

 

 

[Michael Edge]

2 hours ago, t-b-g said:

 

Lovely stuff Mike but I think the original enquiry was about the bogie spacing on the tender. Did you do a drawing for that?

I must have done one at some time but I can't locate it, basic wheelbase dimensions on the Roche drawing should be correct though.

[john new]

23 minutes ago, Izzy said:

 

As your query concerns the tender bogie spacing could you not just use the dimensions given with the Roche drawing as they should be correct, even if perhaps the actual drawing isn't ?

 

Bob

Thanks. Yes, that is my plan. I was more worried the SEF kit would have mis-matches against the drawing. It was an impulse buy at the Taunton do and if there are differences then

working out if it is the kit or the drawing that is wrong. 

[Ian Rathbone]

I too have a 7mm ROD. Bought at a very reasonable price at auction so I have neither built nor painted it. It had an incorrect GC tender which I was able to alter with bits from the scrap box, and a couple of spare GW tool boxes. It also had a very primitive chassis with cast iron wheels that would not traverse standard finescale pointwork so I bought a David Andrews chassis kit & Slaters wheels (not such a cheap model now). I built a sprung chassis and converted the 2d static valve gear to working 3d, although it’s practically invisible, but I know it is there.

 

It performs well - a good ‘layout’ loco.

 

 

Ian R

Edited September 12 by Ian Rathbone

[jacko]

1 hour ago, Barry Ten said:

 

Suspect that may be an issue with your model, rather than a general one, as mine is fine over Code 75 points. I've a short clip of it running here, but you'll have to take my word that it goes around the layout without derailments:

 

 

I think you've been one of the lucky ones. Sam of Sam's trains youtube reviews had similar issues as me and there was a discussion on RMWEB where people started noticing issues on points and with the front and trailing bogie pickups round about page 18 ..    

 

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/forums/topic/53404-Bachmann-announce-ly-2-4-2t/page/18/

 

Graeme

Edited September 12 by jacko
posting link

[Tony Wright]

2 hours ago, Ian Rathbone said:

I too have a 7mm ROD. Bought at a very reasonable price at auction so I have neither built nor painted it. It had an incorrect GC tender which I was able to alter with bits from the scrap box, and a couple of spare GW tool boxes. It also had a very primitive chassis with cast iron wheels that would not traverse standard finescale pointwork so I bought a David Andrews chassis kit & Slaters wheels (not such a cheap model now). I built a sprung chassis and converted the 2d static valve gear to working 3d, although it’s practically invisible, but I know it is there.

 

It performs well - a good ‘layout’ loco.

 

 

Ian R

Good afternoon Ian,

 

Rather more than a 'layout loco' I'd say.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Captain Kernow]

1 hour ago, jacko said:

 

I think you've been one of the lucky ones. Sam of Sam's trains youtube reviews had similar issues as me and there was a discussion on RMWEB where people started noticing issues on points and with the front and trailing bogie pickups round about page 18 ..    

 

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/forums/topic/53404-Bachmann-announce-ly-2-4-2t/page/18/

 

Graeme

Presumably you have already checked the back-to-backs of the wheels concerned?

 

[Tony Wright]

It's curious how thoughts move on, and this is a case in point in my view............

 

I've recently shown shots of a couple of Bytham's DJH A1s, painted by Ian Rathbone, and I pondered on how many he's painted for me which now run on Little Bytham. The answer is eight! 

 

I took some fresh shots of them this morning and here they are. I've built them all, apart from some original work by 'The Duck' on 60155.

 

 

 

The oldest, 60116 hauling an Up Newcastle fast.

 

 

 

60117 takes the northbound 'Queen of Scots' through the station.

 

 

 

The latest, 60126 bombs past on the Down 'Northumbrian'. 

 

 

 

The Up 'Yorkshire Pullman' glides by behind 60128. 

 

 

 

60130 also works 'The Queen of Scots' on a regular basis.

 

 

 

60136 has charge of the Down 'Flying Scotsman' (note the Dia. 117 boiler - dome further forward).

 

 

 

Another Up Newcastle fast is capably-hauled by 60155.

 

 

 

And the Down 'Morning Talisman' is powered northwards by 60156 (note it is roller bearing-fitted, as with 60155). 

 

Despite the wonderful painting, all of these qualify as 'layout locos', and, as such, they perform their duties admirably. 

 

I've forgotten how many other DJH A1s Ian has painted for me; those for customers. 

 

I wonder how many DJH A1s have been built? Some I've seen, not very well, but it's been a popular kit.

 

Anyone else built one, or two, or more? Or acquired any?

 

 

[Captain Kernow]

I did a DJH A1 for The Model Shop at Guildford, Tony, many years ago. It was the last kit I ever did for him, as I had decided to concentrate on modelling projects for myself. I delivered it to him in grey primer, for (presumably) Brian Badger to paint.

 

I will always value the experience I gained, building kits for that shop. I often wonder who eventually acquired them and where they are now. I recently saw a Wills ex-SE&CR 'H' class 0-4-4T on Ebay, in BR lined black, just as I finished the model for the shop, over 40 years ago now. It had the same slot arrangement in the Romford crankpin washers, that I always use myself. I've not seen anyone else do that, so I wondered if it was the one I built. But study of my old photos and what was on Ebay convinced me that it wasn't the same loco.

 

[Captain Kernow]

Changing the subject away from locos for a moment (and in no way trying to appear sycophantic), I often pause to admire the excellent bullhead PW in your photos, plus other infrastructure, such as the semaphore signals. I'm sure I read somewhere that you have said that Norman Soloman was responsible for the track, Tony? I have to say, that it doesn't really seem like OO even, to me, more like EM, it's so good!

 

May I ask who constructed the signals and perhaps if you may post some other photos of 'infrastructure', please?

 

[lezz01]

I have to agree with the good Captain here Tony the PW on your layout is very good. It doesn't look 00 at all.

I'm not a fan of commercial track as it's very expensive compared to hand built track and doesn't look at all convincing. It's always been a mystery why others don't build their own as once you get the hang of it, built a few jigs and brought the gauges it's very easy to build for yourself and costs a fraction of RTR track.

Regards Lez.     

[Northmoor]

57 minutes ago, lezz01 said:

I have to agree with the good Captain here Tony the PW on your layout is very good. It doesn't look 00 at all.

I'm not a fan of commercial track as it's very expensive compared to hand built track and doesn't look at all convincing. It's always been a mystery why others don't build their own as once you get the hang of it, built a few jigs and brought the gauges it's very easy to build for yourself and costs a fraction of RTR track.

Regards Lez.     

I think you may have answered your own question.  Alternatively, someone can buy some Peco Streamline plus a few points and probably lay the entire layout of a decent BLT in an afternoon. 

[Tony Wright]

1 hour ago, Captain Kernow said:

Changing the subject away from locos for a moment (and in no way trying to appear sycophantic), I often pause to admire the excellent bullhead PW in your photos, plus other infrastructure, such as the semaphore signals. I'm sure I read somewhere that you have said that Norman Soloman was responsible for the track, Tony? I have to say, that it doesn't really seem like OO even, to me, more like EM, it's so good!

 

May I ask who constructed the signals and perhaps if you may post some other photos of 'infrastructure', please?

 

Good evening Captain,

 

The scenic-side trackwork was, indeed, the work of Norman Solomon. He is the best in the business! He used C&L components for the points/crossings and SMP for the plain track (by rights, that on the fasts should be flat-bottom by 1958, but I overlook that). 

 

Some shots............

 

 

 

To save money, I installed the point motors and most of the wiring.

 

Speaking of money, Norman didn't come cheap (if you want the best, then expect to pay), but costs were off-set by the making of a DVD in the Right Track series. 

 

Signalling. Four people have been responsible for making Bytham's signals - Mick Nicholson, Graham Nicholas, Tony Gee and Roy Vinter. Normally, I horse trade, but in Mick's case I paid him (I don't think I could offer him anything in return). 

 

 

Here's Graham Nicholas installing one of Mick Nicholson's co-acting signals. 

 

 

And here's a signal which he made. 

 

 

 

He also made the signals work using Viessmann motors (any problems with which have been cured by Andrew Burchell's genius at electronics!).

 

How did I 'pay' Graham? By building him locomotives! 

 

The MR/M&GNR signals were the work of Mick Nicholson and Tony Gee.

 

 

 

It's a good job the track to the right is never used!

 

 

Mick made the posts and Tony made the rest and installed the servos for making them work; all for just the cost of the components and some old Romford driving wheels. 

 

Ground signals...........

 

 

Were made and installed by Roy Vinter (with help from Ray Chessum) using MSE components (many of them actually work!).

 

By rights, some of them should be GNR rotating ones, but I have to be pragmatic (does anyone make kits for them?). 

 

Gentlemen, I thank you all for the superlative creations, all based on actual prototypes (there, I've mentioned it again!). 

 

Infrastructure to follow.............

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

 

 

[46444]

On 11/09/2024 at 10:40, Tony Wright said:

I don't mind at all Keith,

 

It's fascinating.

 

I saw the LT panniers but didn't take any pictures. Obviously, during my computer search for 'panniers' nothing came up in model form with them in LT red (they look rather good in it), so the best I can come up with is...........

 

 

 

This Heljan OO Met Bo-Bo in LT red. Very pretty, don't you think?

 

 

Very pretty in original Met red as well, seen by this O Gauge example running on the Twickenham Club's Addison Road.

 

Hasn't there been a new RTR Met 0-4-4T just been released?

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

 

 

Hi Tony,

 

Here is the new Rapido Metropolitan 'E' Class finished as L44 on Juniper Hill Tip ex-works.

 

 

 

 

 

I have just finished fitting the detailing kit. It now needs a light weathing of 'grime and shine'. 

 

There was a reason the LT Panniers took on a distinctive oily look. Not having my Red Panniers book to hand to clarify, I believe it was caused bt the method of cleaning in addition to the product used to clean them.

 

 

 

 

 

Here's my take on L90. A detailed and weathered Bachmann example. Weathered using acrylic washes and sealed with Johnson's Kleer.

 

The train reporting numbers are from Steve at Railtec decals.

 

Cheers,

 

Mark

[Tony Wright]

Bytham infrastructure. Again, this is all based on actual prototypes (or was, eventually). 

 

 

Prototype reference was always essential. Here's Marsh Bridge, marking the south end scenic break on the layout.

 

 

 

Ian Wilson scratch-built it in card. Sadly, with electrification, the actual bridge was demolished in 1986, but surviving (taller) GNR three-arch bridges were used as reference points. 

 

 

Ian also built the footbridge.

 

 

And Station Road bridge.

 

The footbridge was demolished with the station's closure in 1959, but Station Road bridge still exists.............

 

 

Though with rather more of Mother Nature present than represented on the model!

 

How did I pay Ian? By building him locomotives and taking pictures.

 

The most prominent piece of engineering on Bytham is the MR/M&GNR girder bridge. 

 

 

My first attempt was a fudge, using Airfix components and brass section (the retaining wall is infrastructures as well. It's still there, but invisible behind unrestricted tree growth. Tom Wright scrambled up it with a surveyor's tape measure, and I made it from Wills sheets on a balsa skeleton using the dimensions he took). 

 

Fortunately, with regard to the girder bridge's accuracy, along came good friends Jamie Guest and Dave Wager. 

 

 

 

 

 

Using the original drawings, Jamie did the CAD work and had an etched sheet produced, and Dave made it (using extra etches and brass stock as well). And, the cost to me? Just the price of the etches! I think it's one of the finest models of substantial civil engineering I've ever seen! Thank you, gentlemen (in fact, I can't thank you enough).

 

There are two overbridges on the MR/M&GNR bit.............

 

 

The first one requires several buckets-full of 'modeller's licence'. Although fairly accurate, the prototype (long demolished) is about eight miles away! I made it using a modified Hornby Skaledale product as a basis, and it forms the western exit/entrance from/to the fiddle yard.

 

The prototype for the other bridge, forming the eastern boundary, still exists......

 

 

Though it hasn't seen a train beneath it since the early winter of 1959.

 

'Modeller's licence' dictates that it's much too close to the main line and also that the curve through it is actually the opposite to what it should be, and much too tight at that! 

 

 

I made an initial sub-structure based on Ian Wilson's dimensions taken on site.

 

 

Then Ian produced a 2D mock-up to see how it might look.

 

 

Before Bob Dawson completed the actual model. 

 

Other infrastructures?

 

 

I made the loading dock from wood, card and Wills sheets.

 

I suppose point rodding counts as 'infrastructure'? 

 

Not quite complete to the right................

 

 

But completed here.

 

 

 

 

I made it all (over 33' of it!) during the first lockdown using MSE components and brass rod. 

 

I think I've just about stopped twitching! 

 

Do buildings count as infrastructure? If so, tomorrow.....................

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited Sunday at 07:30 by Tony Wright
to add something

[Tony Wright]

I've actually found another shot of a DJH A1 I built running on LB, which Ian Rathbone painted.......

 

 

Built for a friend, for whom I subsequently re-sold it.

 

 

It was run-in on Stoke Summit. 

 

 

[St Enodoc]

3 hours ago, lezz01 said:

I have to agree with the good Captain here Tony the PW on your layout is very good. It doesn't look 00 at all.

I'm not a fan of commercial track as it's very expensive compared to hand built track and doesn't look at all convincing. It's always been a mystery why others don't build their own as once you get the hang of it, built a few jigs and brought the gauges it's very easy to build for yourself and costs a fraction of RTR track.

Regards Lez.     

Commercial bullhead track does look convincing and is a good example of the time/cost balance. I'd never build plain track.

 

Commercial points, until recently, less so - but the Peco ones aren't all that bad and regarding kits the new British Finescale ones are receiving excellent reports (I haven't built one - yet) and are a lot quicker to build than say C&L kits. Usual disclaimer in all cases.