Wright writes.....

[Northmoor]

3 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Good evening Tony,

 

I included it because Buckingham has that quality (which, as far as I know has only been mentioned once in the recent discussions), 'atmosphere' Something that can be lacking in some superbly-accurate systems, which can appear sterile in pictures.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

There were probably more people inspired to be in a band by The Beatles than by any other.  Buckingham - and only a very few other layouts - are perhaps to model railways what The Beatles were to music and no two people would give the same explanation why.  That's greatness.

[t-b-g]

30 minutes ago, St Enodoc said:

That's a better way of expressing what I was trying to say.

 

At the risk of upsetting some folk (again...) I always saw Dewsbury Midland in that "sterile" light.

 

Just to clarify, do you mean the Manchester MRS 00 gauge Dewsbury, or the Bob Essery Scale 7 one? 

Edited August 29 by t-b-g
typo

[St Enodoc]

18 minutes ago, t-b-g said:

 

Just to clarify, do you mean the Manchester MRS 00 gauge Dewsbury, or the Bob Essery Scale 7 one? 

The latter.

 

The former was definitely not sterile!

 

Original post edited.

Edited August 29 by St Enodoc
more words

[Dunsignalling]

3 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

That's a better way of expressing what I was trying to say.

 

At the risk of upsetting some folk (again...) I always saw the ScaleSeven Dewsbury Midland in that "sterile" light.

Each to his own, but I tend to agree.

 

Idealistic rather than realistic, was my initial reaction, and my view didn't mellow with further encounters.

 

Every item was beautifully modelled, to "glass case" standards, but the overall appearance was as if everything on the layout had been brand new on the same day. No real railway ever looked that "perfect" in its entirety. 

 

A (very) upmarket counterpart of those RTR-based layouts where all is straight-out-of-the-box-gleaming?

 

John  

Edited August 30 by Dunsignalling

[Compound2632]

7 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

 

 

At the risk of upsetting some folk (again...) I always saw the ScaleSeven Dewsbury Midland in that "sterile" light.

 

All the right notes...

 

No-one, I think, would criticise the modelling of any individual item.

[Compound2632]

5 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

 No real railway ever looked that "perfect" in its 

 

On the other hand, I do think we need to be aware of projecting our own experience of the contemporary world back onto earlier periods. Every one of us here grew up in a post-war world of neglect and decay - myself in the 70s, which some might say was as grim as it got. We've seen the rise of rubbish with our disposable consumer economy, and, with the general rise in expectation of standard of living, a collapse in the low wage economy that could afford to keep things tidy.

[Izzy]

11 hours ago, t-b-g said:

 

I just accept that Buckingham is more of a pure model railway than a model of a real railway. It isn't the sort of model railway where you can take a photo that might fool people into thinking it might be the real thing.
 

I wondered if I would be disappointed. It was all about the dangers of "meeting your heroes" and coming away wishing you hadn't.

 

I was fortunate to see you exhibiting Leighton Buzzard at Nottingham some years back now and felt the same. Wondering what my reaction would be to seeing a part of a layout that had been my main inspiration for so many decades. 
 

There is no doubt that it could be said to be a product of it’s time, that it’s age is self evident, but seeing it  ‘real’ only reinforced my opinions of it, that if I could produce a model that conveyed the sense of a real railway as it so ably does, then I would be very satisfied. That the whole is more than just the individual parts. 
 

I feel certain that if I were to see LB in the flesh it would be the same. That sometimes as modellers we can get so hung up on certain aspects that we loose the ability to see the wood for the trees, the bigger picture which Tony is able to portray with his great shots of LB. 

 

Bob

[Barry O]

8 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

The latter.

 

The former was definitely not sterile!

 

Original post edited.

I thought you meant the one built by Leeds MRS when we joined in the 1970s..

 

It definitely wasn't sterile but could cause a bit of mental grief on occasion.

 

Baz

[t-b-g]

1 hour ago, Izzy said:

I was fortunate to see you exhibiting Leighton Buzzard at Nottingham some years back now and felt the same. Wondering what my reaction would be to seeing a part of a layout that had been my main inspiration for so many decades. 
 

There is no doubt that it could be said to be a product of it’s time, that it’s age is self evident, but seeing it  ‘real’ only reinforced my opinions of it, that if I could produce a model that conveyed the sense of a real railway as it so ably does, then I would be very satisfied. That the whole is more than just the individual parts. 
 

I feel certain that if I were to see LB in the flesh it would be the same. That sometimes as modellers we can get so hung up on certain aspects that we loose the ability to see the wood for the trees, the bigger picture which Tony is able to portray with his great shots of LB. 

 

Bob

 

Exhibiting Leighton Buzzard was one of the most rewarding things I have ever done in the hobby. The appreciation from viewers and the enjoyment it gave me being able to share part of Buckingham with a wider audience are things that I probably won't ever top.

 

In some cases, we had grown men with nostalgic tears in their eyes. Not many layouts have that sort of emotional resonance with people.

 

Apart from that, it is also just a great layout to operate and watch. Small, not particularly complex but superbly designed and with a timetable/sequence that took about an hour to complete, it was just a joy to operate. Many people watched the whole sequence and came back for more.

 

When you are at the NEC with a little layout like that and people say that it is the most interesting layout to watch out of the 100 or so there, it really says something about the design and operation.

 

 

 

 

[Tony Wright]

2 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

All the right notes...

 

No-one, I think, would criticise the modelling of any individual item.

Good morning Stephen,

 

Certainly not.................

 

 

James Harewood's prize-winning MR 4-4-0 built for Dewsbury in S7.

 

 

 

And two views of Geoff Holt's equally-worthy MR 4-4-0. 

 

If I had a personal 'criticism' (not of the modelling standards, which were peerless) it was that nothing, anywhere on Dewsbury in S7, was weathered. Sterile? In the opinion of some, maybe, but I count it a privilege to have been granted a lifetime lineside photographic pass by none other than Bob Essery himself! 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Compound2632]

1 minute ago, Tony Wright said:

If I had a personal 'criticism' (not of the modelling standards, which were peerless) it was that nothing, anywhere on Dewsbury in S7, was weathered.

 

I'm coming over all weak at the knees at the sight of those 4-4-0s. 

 

It was in 1892, I think, that Thomas Clayton, the Midland's Carriage & Wagon Superintendent, reported to the Directors that yellow was being substituted for gold leaf in the lining-out of horseboxes, carriage trucks, and other non-passenger coaching stock, because such vehicles were never washed. This is borne out by photos from the 1890s/1900s in which such vehicles look dull or matt in comparison with the high gloss shine of locomotives and passenger carriages. As for goods wagons...

 

But I challenge 'nothing' - the back of that signal arm looks a bit grubby, to me!

[Tony Wright]

A 'rose by any other name'?

 

Same name.................

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dewsbury Midland in OO by the Manchester MRS.

 

Weathered, and certainly not sterile.

 

Interestingly, both the Dewsbury layouts were not based on actual prototype locations.

 

Other than the (obvious) differences in scale/gauge, everything on Dewsbury S7 was made (mainly from scratch), yet on Dewsbury OO almost everything was RTR, admittedly altered/detailed/weathered.

 

Equally-interestingly (especially given my personal stance on making things), guess which one I preferred watching? 

 

 

[Tony Wright]

3 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

I'm coming over all weak at the knees at the sight of those 4-4-0s. 

 

It was in 1892, I think, that Thomas Clayton, the Midland's Carriage & Wagon Superintendent, reported to the Directors that yellow was being substituted for gold leaf in the lining-out of horseboxes, carriage trucks, and other non-passenger coaching stock, because such vehicles were never washed. This is borne out by photos from the 1890s/1900s in which such vehicles look dull or matt in comparison with the high gloss shine of locomotives and passenger carriages. As for goods wagons...

 

But I challenge 'nothing' - the back of that signal arm looks a bit grubby, to me!

And the lamp posts, but not the overbridges where they spanned the tracks!

Edited August 30 by Tony Wright

[APOLLO]

I whizzed through Dewsbury a few times last week (with my 4 in 8 rover) on Trans Pennine Express (nice trains when they run !!). It's certainly "nowt" like the above photos, or what I remember from the 60's & early 70's. Just two tracks now, no signal boxes, sidings and other paraphernalia, also rampant vegetation as everywhere these days. ALL atmosphere has gone, unless you are David Bellamy !!

 

And it's not just Yorkshire either !!

 

Brit15

 

 

[Compound2632]

2 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

but not the overbridges where they spanned the tracks!

 

A junior porter with a damp rag was held by his ankles over the bridge parapet after the passage of each train.

 

But seriously, consider: 

1. no superheating - so a cleaner exhaust, with no oily content; and

2. this being the approach to a terminal station, steam would be shut off. 

[Tony Wright]

In rummaging through my library in finding pictures of the Dewsburys (Dewsburies?), I found a further selection of layouts which might fall into the semantics of 'realistic', 'authentic', 'atmospheric' and/or 'inspirational'.

 

I'll let others make judgements.............

 

 

Ambergate.

 

 

Bath Green Park.

 

 

 

Chee Tor.

 

 

Rise Hill Tunnel.

 

 

Black Gill.

 

 

Kendal Castle.

 

 

Kendale.

 

 

Totnes.

 

I'm sure I'll find some more............................

 

 

 

 

[Compound2632]

1 minute ago, APOLLO said:

I whizzed through Dewsbury a few times last week (with my 4 in 8 rover) on Trans Pennine Express (nice trains when they run !!). It's certainly "nowt" like the above photos, or what I remember from the 60's & early 70's. Just two tracks now, no signal boxes, sidings and other paraphernalia, also rampant vegetation as everywhere these days. ALL atmosphere has gone, unless you are David Bellamy !!

 

As I understand it, both layouts are interpretations of what the Midland's proposed West Riding lines - making Bradford a through station - would have looked like if built in full (MMRS) or in part, but rather more so than was actually built (Essery). The station still open is on the ex-LNWR line. 

 

The famous P4 layout Heckmondwike was based on the same proposed Midland line.

[Compound2632]

3 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

 

Rise Hill Tunnel.

 

Those are not the fells above or beyond Rise Hill tunnel - they look more like something in the Lake District, or maybe Switzerland! The photo would be far more convincing if cropped at about the level of the top of the signal post.

[Tony Wright]

4 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

A junior porter with a damp rag was held by his ankles over the bridge parapet after the passage of each train.

 

But seriously, consider: 

1. no superheating - so a cleaner exhaust, with no oily content; and

2. this being the approach to a terminal station, steam would be shut off. 

But what about departing trains?

 

 

I think it's down to 'observation'.

 

Seen before but in a different context. Though no trains terminated at Little Bytham, the difference in the staining on the footbridge is noticeable. Why the difference? Because Down trains were straining against the 1 in 200 of Stoke Bank, while Up trains had it easy (shutting off steam?).

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

[Tony Wright]

9 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Those are not the fells above or beyond Rise Hill tunnel - they look more like something in the Lake District, or maybe Switzerland! The photo would be far more convincing if cropped at about the level of the top of the signal post.

I didn't put those hills in.

[Compound2632]

15 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

 

Bath Green Park.

 

I did hear the tale of an old Bath driver watching this layout (or another of Bath?) and commenting that the turntable rotated the wrong way...

 

Also, the signalman has a problem getting to and from work.

[Tony Wright]

Three more 'category' layouts, all in 2mm...............

 

 

York.

 

 

Ivybridge.

 

 

Tucking Mill.

 

 

[Compound2632]

2 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

But what about departing trains?

 

I was waiting for that...

 

With, say, 5 ft drivers, a two-cylinder engine emits one exhaust chuff for every 4 ft or so run, so there's a reasonable chance of missing the front face of the bridge?

[Tony Wright]

Has anyone considered model railway photography 'dangerous'?

 

 

We run A1s southbound at around 90 mph!

 

A shot from Bytham's early days..............

 

 

[Tony Wright]

1 minute ago, Compound2632 said:

 

I was waiting for that...

 

With, say, 5 ft drivers, a two-cylinder engine emits one exhaust chuff for every 4 ft or so run, so there's a reasonable chance of missing the front face of the bridge?

This is getting a bit daft!

 

So, you're saying it never chuffed at the right/wrong time?