Wright writes.....

[mullie]

11 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Has there ever been a kit for a streamlined B17?

 

I recall photographing an example years ago which appeared to have a resin body (Jaycraft?). 

 

Any others?

Is this the one you are thinking of by Golden Arrow Models?

 

http://www.goldenarrow.me.uk/products.htm#lnerb17 It is in the middle of the page.

 

Martyn

[Re6/6]

On 14/08/2024 at 09:43, Captain Kernow said:

Scratchbuilding or major modifications to kits and RTR remains an option. @Re6/6 has been working on the body for ex-Cardiff Railway No.155, which will be mated with a much-modified Comet chassis in due course and will eventually be used on his Fochriw layout - 

 

A 'cut'n'shut' using a Bachmann Collett goods and a 56XX. Side tanks made from plastic card with and running plate and steps made from brass and nickel-silver. All a bit 'old school'!

Edited August 22 by Re6/6
Bad composition!

[Northmoor]

1 hour ago, APOLLO said:

 

 No steam when I went to Fishguard back in 1966 on a family holiday at St Davids, had a rail trip to Cardiff from Haverfordwest and some strange named places up some valleys !!

 

 

 

Haverfordwest I think.

 

 

Cardiff

 

 

 

 

This was seen at St Davids which I think never had a railway (?)

 

 

Long, long time ago.

 

Just had my last 4 in 8 Freedom of the North West rover day out. Wigan to Lancaster / Barrow / Whitehaven / Carlisle / Leeds / Manchester / Wigan. A dullish day with an angry sea at high tide along the Cumbrian coast. Not quite Dawlish but not far off !!!

 

No photos as owt worth seeing I already have umpteen photos of, and in sunny weather !!

 

Brit15

You have correctly identified Haverfordwest in your photo.  When the trees weren't in leaf you could see the station from my secondary school (hateful place!).  St. Davids didn't have a station although there were at least two schemes proposed, the last only finally being abandoned around the end of WW1.  My interminably slow model railway project is eventually intended to represent the planned terminus.

[paul.anderson@poptel.org]

1 hour ago, mullie said:

Is this the one you are thinking of by Golden Arrow Models?

 

http://www.goldenarrow.me.uk/products.htm#lnerb17 It is in the middle of the page.

 

Martyn

I've got one from which I'm going to create the fictional Ipswich Town, painted garter blue with white lining and a black smokebox... I was planning to do something more serious, but those Hornby models look impossible to emulate using the Golden Arrow body (though it is not at all bad), not least because the liveries are so exquisite.

.

Edited August 21 by paul.anderson@poptel.org

[Keith Turbutt]

15 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

 

This must really be one of Hornby's best ever locos.

Maybe. However, but wearing my grumbly old man hat, the B17/5 was just an LNER publicity stunt. The streamlining, in my view, looks ridiculous on a 4-6-0. I believe there was only a benefit from streamlining at speeds exceeding 80mph which I would guess was rarely achieved on GE lines. For modellers their area of operation was very limited.

If Hornby had wanted to make more use of the B17 chassis a much better choice might have been a Thompson B2, 2 cylinder rebuild of the B17s. of which there were more than two and had a number of different tenders and had a longer life. Perhaps they look too similar to the Thompson B1s to have been considered. There is of course the PPP/DMR kit for those who really want one and have the skills and time to build it.

 

Edited August 22 by Keith Turbutt
added 'time' and per TWW kit is DMR not PDK

[manna]

G'Day Folks

 

My lad bought this for my Xmas present a few years ago, I still need to finish it.

 

Terry (aka manna)

[CF MRC]

On 20/08/2024 at 22:45, t-b-g said:

I have just zoomed in on my photo of the Alex Jackson LNWR Coal Tank and spotted a little detail I didn't see at the show or when I took the photos.

 

The crankpin retainers are secured by a tapered pin, inserted into a hole through the side of the retainer and through the crankpin itself.

 

I have seen this sort of thing in O Gauge but in 4mm scale? That is astonishing engineering.

 

 

Interestingly, it’s only obvious on the leading driven wheel with a very short crank pin. Maybe it was the solution to retain a loose nut that had been taken on and off a few too many times for checking the drive. It is a bit over large for scale. Also interesting to note that the three corner holes for fretting out the spokes are visible where the balance weight is still present. 
 

Tim

[Tony Wright]

11 hours ago, mullie said:

Is this the one you are thinking of by Golden Arrow Models?

 

http://www.goldenarrow.me.uk/products.htm#lnerb17 It is in the middle of the page.

 

Martyn

Good morning Martyn,

 

Many thanks. That's probably it.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Tony Wright]

10 hours ago, Keith Turbutt said:

Maybe. However, but wearing my grumbly old man hat, the B17/5 was just an LNER publicity stunt. The streamlining, in my view, looks ridiculous on a 4-6-0. I believe there was only a benefit from streamlining at speeds exceeding 80mph which I would guess was rarely achieved on GE lines. For modellers their area of operation was very limited.

If Hornby had wanted to make more use of the B17 chassis a much better choice might have been a Thompson B2, 2 cylinder rebuild of the B17s. of which there were more than two and had a number of different tenders and had a longer life. Perhaps they look too similar to the Thompson B1s to have been considered. There is of course the PDK kit for those who really want one and have the skills and time to build it.

 

Good morning Keith,

 

I agree about the streamlining on the B17s being more for publicity than for benefit, but it would cost Hornby a lot more to produce a B2 than a B17/5 from the existing B17 tooling. Granted, a new body would be needed in both cases, but also new motion for the B2 (the radius rod is different between the two). 

 

While the existing GS B17 tender would have suited one B2, the other nine had either ex-NER tenders or the two huge tenders from the scrapped P1s. Whether the NER tender produced by Hornby for its Q6 would suit, I don't know, but there were several variations in those pulled by the B2s. The asymmetric-wheelbase from the GS tender is used underneath the new tender body for the B17/5s (with or without the fairings). 

 

So, it appears (at least to me) that to produce a B17/5 is more cost-effective for Hornby than it is to produce a B2.

 

You're right about a kit for a B2 (is it PDK or DMR? I've certainly built the latter), but, as you state, certain skills are needed to build it. And, it seems to me, those skills are diminishing!

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[MikeParkin65]

1 hour ago, Tony Wright said:

I agree about the streamlining on the B17s being more for publicity than for benefit, but it would cost Hornby a lot more to produce a B2 than a B17/5 from the existing B17 tooling. Granted, a new body would be needed in both cases, but also new motion for the B2 (the radius rod is different between the two). 

Agree with both you and @Keith Turbutt. Funny looking loco's but they are streamlined, named and fit on an existing chassis so make financial sense for Hornby. Marketing wise I suspect these would have been signed off by Simon Kohler. The standard B17's dont seem to have been quick sellers, several variants were bargain binned and even then seemed to hang around so tooling up yet more variants probably wouldnt pay off.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

20 hours ago, Northmoor said:

As an "unofficial advocate" for area of the West Wales where I grew up, I've always noticed that there are far fewer layouts based on (or inspired by) South and West Wales prototypes and perhaps it reflects the far fewer holidaymakers travelling there by train in the 1930s-1960s, compared to Devon/Cornwall and the Cambrian Coast further North.

Oh no! When we first had a family holiday at Tenby in 1969, the first thing my late Pa said was "Tell no-one." Nearly ten years later when I organised a party walking the Pembrokeshire Coast Path, little had changed, and five years after that we had our honeymoon in Manorbier and it remained all peace and quiet, among the outstanding natural beauty and hospitality, and so it has continued since

 

I really shouldn't have posted any of this. 

[Woodcock29]

3 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Good morning Martyn,

 

Many thanks. That's probably it.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

The Golden Arrow body and tender have been around for a long time. I'm sure I built mine back in the late 80s. I actually bought a second hand older Hornby B17 with a Comet chassis in it from a mate not long ago with the aim of using that chassis in the B17/5 to replace the Hornby loco chassis and tender drive which it still had but of course when I took the Golden Arrow body off its basically solid fibreglass so its useless trying to fit a loco drive chassis in it.

Unfortunately I can't find a photo of it and its currently buried somewhere deep under my layout!

The body isn't that accurate as it appears to have been made from a mould made from a modified old Hornby tender drive A4 body so it has the dip on the boiler top in front of where the dome is.

 

Anyway I've bitten the bullet and ordered one earlier this week. I even have a spare set old old Kings Cross nameplates for East Anglian waiting for it.

 

Andrew 

[Woodcock29]

11 hours ago, manna said:

G'Day Folks

 

My lad bought this for my Xmas present a few years ago, I still need to finish it.

 

Terry (aka manna)

Terry that looks like the Golden Arrow body I made mine from in the late 80s I think. I'll have to find the old one and show you both if you're able to visit sometime this summer when you're back down south?

 

Andrew

[Keith Turbutt]

2 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

You're right about a kit for a B2 (is it PDK or DMR

Hi Tony,

Thanks for your reply. You are of course correct that the B2 kit is DMR ( marketed by Phoenix Precision Paints ) . Should have checked before posting!

PDK however do do quite a number of other LNER locos not available RTR.

Cheers 

Keith 

 

[1471SirFrederickBanbury]

On 20/08/2024 at 15:51, Bucoops said:

 

I believe the listings you're referring to are by "Gostude" - who seems to live in a dream world with most of his pricing. A regular starring role in the "ebay madness" thread.

Unfortunately, his heaven is my hell, knowing that I would love a Pro-Scale A4, and that I just barely missed a beautiful Larry Goddard painted MALLARD (1968-88 condition) with a Portescap drive for £120 (IIRC), but I can’t find one at all.  I hope dearly that in due time he learns the basics of supply and demand.

[John Tomlinson]

8 minutes ago, 1471SirFrederickBanbury said:

Unfortunately, his heaven is my hell, knowing that I would love a Pro-Scale A4, and that I just barely missed a beautiful Larry Goddard painted MALLARD (1968-88 condition) with a Portescap drive for £120 (IIRC), but I can’t find one at all.  I hope dearly that in due time he learns the basics of supply and demand.

 

IMHO the first lesson of ebay is "seek, and ye shall eventually find". Eventually might be quite a while, especially at an acceptable price, but patience is the key.

 

John.

[manna]

1 hour ago, Woodcock29 said:

Terry that looks like the Golden Arrow body I made mine from in the late 80s I think. I'll have to find the old one and show you both if you're able to visit sometime this summer when you're back down south?

 

Andrew

G'Day Andrew

 

I'm sure I'll be able to visit, this coming summer, if I can tear myself away from my new layout.😂

 

Terry aka manna

[rowanj]

A few posts back saw photos of a Kerr Stuart "Victory", followed by a discusiion on weathering, so I thought I'd show my version of the Planet Industrials model, modified to show No 21 as it ended its' life at Ashington in 1951. To get to this point invoved longer and more difficult research than actually doing the mods to the model, but that's at least half the fun. To produce the loco, I -

 

1- added handrails to the tank fronts and to the rear bunkers sides, and replaced the safety valves and dome

2-fitted small steps to the tank fronts., and very small steps under the footplate.

3- added sandboxes and pipework to the footplate ahead of the tank sides.

4- fitted a casting for the lubricator, but chickened out of the drive from the crosshead.

5.-commisioned transfers from Railtec- excellent service as usual.

6- Weathered the loco, and added coal.

[1471SirFrederickBanbury]

4 hours ago, John Tomlinson said:

 

IMHO the first lesson of ebay is "seek, and ye shall eventually find". Eventually might be quite a while, especially at an acceptable price, but patience is the key.

 

John.

I couldn’t put it better myself,  I will add though, that it is helpful to keep a window or two open on your browser for all the tabs of eBay searches so that you can just refresh them every day, which greatly increases you chances of finding good deals.

[t-b-g]

16 hours ago, CF MRC said:

Interestingly, it’s only obvious on the leading driven wheel with a very short crank pin. Maybe it was the solution to retain a loose nut that had been taken on and off a few too many times for checking the drive. It is a bit over large for scale. Also interesting to note that the three corner holes for fretting out the spokes are visible where the balance weight is still present. 
 

Tim

 

Hello Tim,

 

I have another photo, posted here, which shows that all the crankpin retainers have pins. The ones on the other retainers are much smaller and probably about scale size. I wonder if the leading one was a later replacement as the others are round pins rather than a flat wedge.

 

If you zoom in, you can also see the superb forked joint and the way the thickness of the rods curves outwards to meet the boss.

 

 

Edit to add that a few of us visited the KWVR railway today and I was able to pick up a copy of Model Railway News for June 1950, which features this loco. The constructional notes are worth a read.

Edited August 22 by t-b-g
To add content

[CF MRC]

Thanks Tony
Good to see properly engineered steel coupling rods, with all the mass in the right places. 
 

Tim

[t-b-g]

21 minutes ago, CF MRC said:

Thanks Tony
Good to see properly engineered steel coupling rods, with all the mass in the right places. 
 

Tim

 

That sort of modelling just makes me want to try a little bit harder.

 

It makes me realise just how poor many model rods really are. Even etched ones don't tend to have the curves in the right places, where the rods thicken.

 

I took this photo earlier today. It illustrates the centre boss on the preserved L & Y Class 25 at the KWVR. The forked joint is on the other part of the rod but it illustrates just how close to the prototype proportions and shapes the rods on the model are. You can just make out the curve as the rod thickens ahead of the joint.

 

[Tony Wright]

7 hours ago, Woodcock29 said:

The Golden Arrow body and tender have been around for a long time. I'm sure I built mine back in the late 80s. I actually bought a second hand older Hornby B17 with a Comet chassis in it from a mate not long ago with the aim of using that chassis in the B17/5 to replace the Hornby loco chassis and tender drive which it still had but of course when I took the Golden Arrow body off its basically solid fibreglass so its useless trying to fit a loco drive chassis in it.

Unfortunately I can't find a photo of it and its currently buried somewhere deep under my layout!

The body isn't that accurate as it appears to have been made from a mould made from a modified old Hornby tender drive A4 body so it has the dip on the boiler top in front of where the dome is.

 

Anyway I've bitten the bullet and ordered one earlier this week. I even have a spare set old old Kings Cross nameplates for East Anglian waiting for it.

 

Andrew 

Good evening Andrew,

 

I'm sure you'll be delighted with your new Hornby B17/5............

 

 

The livery application is quite outstanding - fully up to top 'professional' standards.

 

 

Even the 'open' and 'close' directions are present (and legible) around the hole to take the rod for opening the cod's mouth!

 

One 'criticism' I have is that the lubricator drive has to be disconnected to take the body off (as with the Hornby A4s and W1). Interestingly, nothing is present in the instructions explaining how to separate the body from the chassis.

 

I've yet to fit the extra components to the LNER version.

 

Oddly, the handles for opening the inspection hatches are missing on this model (the holes for them are present, as can be seen).

 

 

They're present on the BR black version. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

 

 

[jwealleans]

23 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Has there ever been a kit for a streamlined B17?

 

Tony,

 

Can i remind you of this one?    I'm sure I don't need to tell you where it is pictured.

 

 

By Roy Mears (probably for Mark Allatt) at the LB 1938 weekend, 29-07-18.

 

 

[Baldyoldgit]

1 hour ago, Tony Wright said:

Good evening Andrew,

 

I'm sure you'll be delighted with your new Hornby B17/5............

 

 

The livery application is quite outstanding - fully up to top 'professional' standards.

 

 

Even the 'open' and 'close' directions are present (and legible) around the hole to take the rod for opening the cod's mouth!

 

One 'criticism' I have is that the lubricator drive has to be disconnected to take the body off (as with the Hornby A4s and W1). Interestingly, nothing is present in the instructions explaining how to separate the body from the chassis.

 

I've yet to fit the extra components to the LNER version.

 

Oddly, the handles for opening the inspection hatches are missing on this model (the holes for them are present, as can be seen).

 

 

They're present on the BR black version. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

 

 

I wonder if Hornby will make the coaches to go with it.

Tony.