Wright writes.....

[Red Devil]

I'd guess not many venture into the depths of the 3mm section on here so I hope Tony doesn't mind me posting up a quick video of my latest dead rail mechanism.

 

3mm/14.2 class 20 chassis to slot into a Lincoln Locos body print. Bought in items are motors by Tramfabriek, gears sourced on AliExpress, similarly battery. RC gear is by Micron radio control and a few other bits like wheels and on off switch. The rest is bits of brass and plasticard with a fair amount of lead sheet.

 

Needs a bit of running in but overall reasonably happy with it, all said it'll probably cost me less than the latest Bachmann 4mm version but even if it didn't it's still the enjoyment of building something that there most definitely won't be two of.... unless I build another!

 

 

Hope some find it of interest,

Cheers,

Mark.

Edited August 10 by Red Devil

[Tony Wright]

Today saw three Prestonians visit. Travelling by train from Preston, via the Pennines, then along the ECML to Grantham (where I picked them up) meant an early start. Then, the railways 'in their wisdom' saw fit to cancel their connecting train at Retford because of a lack of train crew! Not only that, wires brought down further south had delayed most of the services; which meant an arrival nearly an hour late. 

 

Just to make sure this (wonderfully-entertaining) day was further cut short, their return train from Grantham was also cancelled (why?), meaning that their departure had to be an hour earlier! So, a short visit, I'm afraid, but thanks for your great company, hospitality at lunchtime, the tasty biscuits, contributions to CRUK and your purchasing some items from the widow's collection. I hope you all get back home OK. 

 

Andy Postlethwaite (what a great, northern surname!) brought along..................

 

 

 

This splendid ex-L&Y 0-6-0ST he'd made (I think he reads this, so might well explain). I handed him that (most-appropriate) L&Y wagon, so many thanks Andy, for your contribution to CRUK for it. 

 

We had little time to run many trains, but two seemed to be of particular interest.

 

This one.............

 

 

Wholly out of place and time, but so what? Rule 1 and all that!

 

 

 

And my new A4. 

 

Here's to the next time chaps, with, one hopes, more time..................

 

 

[Jol Wilkinson]

13 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Yesterday, good friend PMP popped round with a livery-proving sample of Accurascale's forthcoming J68

 

I took some pictures, but they're embargoed for the moment. What I can say is that it looks superb and runs beautifully, so, please, watch this space...................

 

 

 

 

Which is rather surprising, given the number of photos Accurascale have posted on the J67/68/69 topic in their section of the Products and Trade area of RMweb.

[gr.king]

9 hours ago, 31A said:

If you haven't got any brakes, gravity will take over regardless!

 

A loco being driven hard to make up time down a gradient won't increase the train speed at all compared to gravity alone then? Really?

[Tony Wright]

25 minutes ago, Jol Wilkinson said:

Which is rather surprising, given the number of photos Accurascale have posted on the J67/68/69 topic in their section of the Products and Trade area of RMweb.

Good evening Jol,

 

But they're Accurascale's own pictures (I assume). 

 

I'm waiting to see what Accurascale says once the firm sees my pictures. The directors might not like them!

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[polybear]

40 minutes ago, Jol Wilkinson said:

Which is rather surprising, given the number of photos Accurascale have posted on the J67/68/69 topic in their section of the Products and Trade area of RMweb.

 

Sir might have tested it to death then posted pictures of a smoking wreck....

[Chas Levin]

11 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

As for getting 'inside' RTR locos (of all types), why is the process now so difficult? Even when (innumerable) body-fixing screws can be located, they're often driven in so tightly as to render their removal all but impossible. Even after removal has been achieved (assuming all have been found) and one can get them out without their disappearing into the inside of the body, the relationship between the chassis and the body is so snug that, in trying to separate them, one damages the body or pulls wires out.

 

Are modern RTR locos designed never to be dismantled? 

 

Evening Tony, interesting question. I'd have imagined that modern RTR makers must be aware of the world of detailing, modifying etc and I'd also have thought that this forms a (reasonably) substantial part of their market, but as you say, the incredible awkwardness of opening up RTR models these days seems to suggest otherwise.

 

Is it perhaps the case that in the same way as building things for oneself has (sadly) become a minority hobby, so opening up, crewing, detailing or modifying RTR is also now much rarer than we realise?

 

Actually, I find it a very entertaining challenge to open - for instance - a modern RTR coach to fit passengers and lighting. It's the nearest I'll ever get to safe-breaking!

[31A]

1 hour ago, gr.king said:

 

A loco being driven hard to make up time down a gradient won't increase the train speed at all compared to gravity alone then? Really?

 

I didn't actually say that or mean to imply it, just that assuming it was being driven in the manner to which the men were accustomed and expecting to stop at Grantham, the sudden realisation that there were no train brakes when they were needed on the falling gradient would have made it impossible to stop there on a falling gradient, regardless.

[Mike 84C]

Re; the Grantham accident. I cannot get my head around the "fact" that the train ran from Peterboro' with no train brake as is suggested. I worked with some very "relaxed" drivers but all of them would have noticed that if the vacuum was only working on the engine the vac; gauge would have leapt up to 21" and surely the guard would have checked he had at least 19" in the back van. As for pulling the strings that only admits air under the piston so it drops and releases the brake, the ejector will continue to suck air out of the train pipe to release the brakes. nor can I see any driver agreeing to run a passenger train with no brakes or a passenger shunter allowing it to happen.

  I fully realise that I'm looking at turn of the century practise with 1960's eyes and accidents like this and others gave us the modern rule book but if my original statement is correct the GNR must have been a very sloppily run railway. Which is hard to believe as all railways were by then run on militaristic lines. Sorry for the pun!  We can but speculate.

   The only place I have seen a passenger train run with the brake turned off was in Poland, when the driver turned off the air pump and we ran on the reservoir for quite a few miles! The lack of steam was entirely due to the fireman putting an immence amount of coal in the fire box and the only fireiron was a little rake used when dropping the fire. To say I was dumbfounded is an understatement,

[Tony Wright]

9 hours ago, Chas Levin said:

 

Evening Tony, interesting question. I'd have imagined that modern RTR makers must be aware of the world of detailing, modifying etc and I'd also have thought that this forms a (reasonably) substantial part of their market, but as you say, the incredible awkwardness of opening up RTR models these days seems to suggest otherwise.

 

Is it perhaps the case that in the same way as building things for oneself has (sadly) become a minority hobby, so opening up, crewing, detailing or modifying RTR is also now much rarer than we realise?

 

Actually, I find it a very entertaining challenge to open - for instance - a modern RTR coach to fit passengers and lighting. It's the nearest I'll ever get to safe-breaking!

Good morning Chas,

 

From my experience, the most-difficult RTR loco to get the body off was a Bachmann Standard 2-6-4T, 80xxx. From memory, there are two more screws than expected, either side of midships.

 

Then, of course, there's the problem of putting the 'lid' back on. Many screws are deep in sockets - in the dark, so to speak. One goes in, but another drops into the body, and won't come out until the body is removed again. Several appear to be self-tapping in nature, which really means they're only meant to be screwed in - once - and not taken out, put back in, taken out....................

 

As for the cylinder drain cock-operating rod on the Bachmann A1 being both part of the chassis and the body, and Hornby's necessity to disconnect the lubricator drive (and try getting it back on!) before an A4's body comes off, I puzzle as to the reasons. 

 

I think you're right in stating that building things for oneself is a minority hobby nowadays (and detailing/altering/renumbering/renaming/weathering). Time was, I suppose, when much of that was a necessity, especially with the 'crudeness' of RTR items at that time. Not so now. But, we've been here before, and at least the 'non-modellers' as it were employ folk to do their 'modelling' for them, in the form of singular professionals or professional companies (weathering, especially). In a way, I'm one, because I cannot paint (lined green locos) to the standard I insist upon. 

 

You mention the fitting of passengers into RTR coaches (something I need to do more of), but it's not just that. The glue holding in the windows of Bachmann Mk.1s is poor stuff. It regularly fails in my experience, and the windows (in their sections) rather than pop out, pop in, meaning the coach has to be dismantled to re-fix them (with decent glue). The end grab rails/conduits, attached to both the roof and ends are the very devil to get out, and even worse to get back in!

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Tony Wright]

12 hours ago, Red Devil said:

I'd guess not many venture into the depths of the 3mm section on here so I hope Tony doesn't mind me posting up a quick video of my latest dead rail mechanism.

 

3mm/14.2 class 20 chassis to slot into a Lincoln Locos body print. Bought in items are motors by Tramfabriek, gears sourced on AliExpress, similarly battery. RC gear is by Micron radio control and a few other bits like wheels and on off switch. The rest is bits of brass and plasticard with a fair amount of lead sheet.

 

Needs a bit of running in but overall reasonably happy with it, all said it'll probably cost me less than the latest Bachmann 4mm version but even if it didn't it's still the enjoyment of building something that there most definitely won't be two of.... unless I build another!

 

 

Hope some find it of interest,

Cheers,

Mark.

I don't mind at all, Mark.

 

Please keep on posting................

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[polybear]

8 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Then, of course, there's the problem of putting the 'lid' back on. Many screws are deep in sockets - in the dark, so to speak. One goes in, but another drops into the body, and won't come out until the body is removed again.

 

I discovered a very ordinary-looking pencil that is actually filled with a sticky wax core (and can be re-sharpened);  I recently used it to fit that iddy diddy grub screw used in HL Gearboxes with complete success.  Highly recommended.

 

Probably available via Ebay IIRC

[Bernard Lamb]

34 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

 

 

You mention the fitting of passengers into RTR coaches (something I need to do more of), but it's not just that. The glue holding in the windows of Bachmann Mk.1s is poor stuff. It regularly fails in my experience, and the windows (in their sections) rather than pop out, pop in, meaning the coach has to be dismantled to re-fix them (with decent glue). The end grab rails/conduits, attached to both the roof and ends are the very devil to get out, and even worse to get back in!

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Yes Tony. It took me longer working out how to recover the pushed in windows, than it did to actually re-glue them. I do not remember dropping any coaches ,or any rough handling. One day the glazing simply fell to the floor. 

The worst I have come across for getting into, was a Heljan rail bus. 

Bernard

[St Enodoc]

57 minutes ago, Bernard Lamb said:

The worst I have come across for getting into, was a Heljan rail bus. 

I got into mine easily enough. Putting it back together was another story.

[Captain Kernow]

I also recognise the difficulties of getting into some modern RTR. I have very little experience of this in terms of non-GW locos, but the two that take the biscuit for me are the (relatively) recent DJModels/Hattons 14XX and the abomination that is the Model Rail/Rapido 16XX pannier.

 

The 14XX was 'challenging' enough. The chassis drops away readily enough, after the requisite screws are removed, but then leaves the tank and boiler space completely filled up by the motor and worm, a plastic cradle holding said motor and worm and a cast mazak weight, that goes completely around the motor cradle.

 

The only non-destructive way to remove the motor, is to further dismantle the body, by removing the tank and boiler assembly from the footplate. But in order to do that, certain wire conduits have also to be removed (seem to be glued in).

 

I opted for a different route and took a mains Dremel to the mazak weight, until it fell apart, leaving me with a completely clear tank and boiler space, enabling me to put my own choice of chassis, motor and gearbox in place.

 

The only reason I had to change the chassis etc., was that the DJ Models one ran so abysmally. 

 

In the end, it all came together OK, with a Perseverance chassis, Mashima motor and High Level gearbox:

 

And as for the Rapido 16XX, it is impossible to remove the chassis from the body, because the chassis components also form much of the body components.

 

Unless you are happy to be held hostage to the quality of the Rapido drive mechanism, I have found it easier to build the Cotswold (or Nu Cast Partners) whitemetal kit and etched chassis.

 

[Bucoops]

I currently have a very large pile of bits that was a "new" LLC Class 15. I think they were produced in 2017?

 

These bits were all loose in the box - 

 

 

And a few more bits fell off after the photo was taken. I hope the EFE version is assembled with stronger glue...

 

Getting the cab apart to retrieve and re-fit the window involved stripping it right down - both end bonnets hold it in place, and are glued to the footplate. I will try and find a suitable driver to go in as no way do I want to pull it apart again any time soon. Almost all the internal wires are black - and they are very fragile, 3 joints failed so far. I have been REALLY gentle with it. It's a shame as there was a lot of hype over this model, it's a shame that LLC failed, but I do wonder about the quality of the end product.

 

 

[31A]

10 hours ago, Mike 84C said:

As for pulling the strings that only admits air under the piston so it drops and releases the brake, the ejector will continue to suck air out of the train pipe to release the brakes. nor can I see any driver agreeing to run a passenger train with no brakes or a passenger shunter allowing it to happen.

 

But surely the ejector couldn't suck air out of the train pipe if it had been omitted to couple the pipes between the loco and the train?  Then I presume the loco's brake gauge would show the right pressure, but that would only be within the system on the loco itself?  I agree, the guard should have realised there was no pressure registering on the van's gauge, but I have read that the staff at Peterborough were under pressure to reduce delay, and in the rush things were overlooked.

[Izzy]

Most RTR these days are like highly detailed kits, just assembled in a factory rather than by the individual. As such the need to add separate items after the main parts have been bought together I.e. body and chassis means they aren’t like RTR of the distant past and not really intended to be taken apart for repair by the end user as with most other present day consumer goods. That many are bought and never taken out of their boxes let alone run or used just adds to this aspect. 
 

The whole world is in the grip at present of a throw-away society lifestyle which governments are only just waking up to the need to tackle as unsustainable in the longer term. The self reliance many of us grew up knowing, using/re-using what parts and materials we could get is very much of the past for most but will surely return at some point in time. 

 

I’ve had great fun(!) converting present day RTR to 2mm & P4 simply because I’m not afraid to give it a go and have the experience of doing so for many years with simpler models. But I fully understand the reluctance of newer present day modellers to try it with the fear they may wreck the model in the process. Those of yesteryear were such that improving them was easy, being so basic you couldn’t really make them worse, a total contrast with today’s offerings. 
 

Bob

[robertcwp]

2 hours ago, Bernard Lamb said:

Yes Tony. It took me longer working out how to recover the pushed in windows, than it did to actually re-glue them. I do not remember dropping any coaches ,or any rough handling. One day the glazing simply fell to the floor. 

The worst I have come across for getting into, was a Heljan rail bus. 

Bernard

Heljan railbuses are terrible on that front and with poor mechanisms too.

 

I had the opposite of poorly glued-in windows with a Bachmann 4 Bep that I dismantled for repainting. The glazing took about three hours to remove because it was so well glued in. I only just managed it.

 

With Bachmann Mark 1 stock, once you have the tank filler pipes etc removed, drill out the hole a bit to get them back in more easily. Once you get the hang of it, dismantling them is easy and the fact that roof, ends and sides on the older models all come apart from each other makes working on them, eg de-ribbing and repainting the roofs, much easier than it otherwise would be.

[Keith Turbutt]

1 hour ago, Bucoops said:

 

 

And a few more bits fell off after the photo was taken. I hope the EFE version is assembled with stronger glue...

 

Hi Richard,

Alas no. I bought my EFE BTH from Rails when they were on discount. On unpacking I was immediately aware of something shaking loose in the box. I managed to retrieve the loose items and worked out they were parts of the flexible drive between the motor and the bogie. Nothing appeared to be actually broken.

 

I did not want the bother of returning the item and Rails only had one other of the version I had ordered. I felt there was a reasonable chance I could fix it.

However, before doing anything,I contacted Rails to explain the situation. I asked that if I failed to fix it or found something broken inside which I could not see would they still honour the returns guarantee if I had a go.

This they agreed to.

 

I did manage to reassemble the flexible drive and checked the running before replacing the body.

 

As you may have found, the body is quite a tight fit and during the reassembly one of the cab windows got pushed in. Not being able to gain access inside the cab, with great difficulty I managed to refix the window by holding it with a bit of blutack on the end of a pencil. I didn't quite get it as flush as it was originally but it is just about acceptable.

 

One of the drivers seats is also now loose in the cab.

 

As you have already mentioned, the cab is locked in position by the two engine hoods which are glued in. The cab floor is glued to the rest of the cab. The only way that I think I could gain access would be by cutting out the cab floor to effect a better repair of the window, refix the driver's seat and add a crew and finally glue the floor back into position. Not feeling brave enough to do that at the moment but one day ....

 

[Flying Fox 34F]

With regard to the Grantham Rail Crash, the official report could not find a cause.  All the re-examining in the last few years, has revealed potential causes, but this is not official.

What I can say from my point of view as a former volunteer on the NVR, is the following;

If the ‘Strings’ had been pulled at Peterbourough, the Guard, (who is responsible for the train), would have seen he had no vacuum on his gauge.
However, if the Shunter had managed to part the vacuum pipes, and then placed them on the respective dummy connectors, the pressure drop may have been only slight.  
Note, we were reminded to leave the vacuum pipe hanging on the stationary vehicle, if add or removing a fitted vehicle, until the locomotive was reattached and a brake test completed.

 

Also, I recall the unfortunate Fireman was a Premium Apprentice and friend of OVS Bullied, who had the sad task of dismantling Atlantic 276, to check for any defects that may have led to the incident.

 

Ultimately, the Rulebook was probably adjusted to avoid a repeat of this tragedy, by ensuring the procedures for operating trains were mandated.

Edited August 12 by Flying Fox 34F
Add a word

[Keith Turbutt]

15 minutes ago, robertcwp said:

 

I had the opposite of poorly glued-in windows with a Bachmann 4 Bep that I dismantled for repainting. 

Hi Robert,

Just curious why you needed to repaint a 4BEP?

 

I had two 4CEPS and would have liked a 4BEP to go with them. However, when the 4BEP was finally released it was at a grossly inflated price which I was not prepared to pay. Then a few months ago on another RMweb thread there was mention of 4CEP and 4BEP parts being available on the Bachmann Spares website. On checking I found that I could buy a 4BEP buffet coach. The body, interior and underframe had to be ordered separately. I was lucky enough to get one of the last green bodies. All for £75 !

 

As the only difference between a 4CEP and a 4BEP is the trailer second and the buffet I was able to convert my 4CEP to a 4BEP using the bogies from the redundant trailer second. I know the unit and coach numbering is incorrect but I can live with that.

 

I'm still puzzled why the 4BEP's price was so inflated when the only new tooling was the buffet body. I don't think they have sold well as TMC have been offering them at a big discount.

 

4CEPs can be purchased on EBAY at a reasonable price SH. As I also have the MLV, so maybe one day I will make up the full 13 car boat train formation with another 4CEP.

 

 

 

[MJI]

16 hours ago, Red Devil said:

I'd guess not many venture into the depths of the 3mm section on here so I hope Tony doesn't mind me posting up a quick video of my latest dead rail mechanism.

 

3mm/14.2 class 20 chassis to slot into a Lincoln Locos body print. Bought in items are motors by Tramfabriek, gears sourced on AliExpress, similarly battery. RC gear is by Micron radio control and a few other bits like wheels and on off switch. The rest is bits of brass and plasticard with a fair amount of lead sheet.

 

Needs a bit of running in but overall reasonably happy with it, all said it'll probably cost me less than the latest Bachmann 4mm version but even if it didn't it's still the enjoyment of building something that there most definitely won't be two of.... unless I build another!

 

 

Hope some find it of interest,

Cheers,

Mark.

 

It's a 20, you need two

[Northmoor]

43 minutes ago, Keith Turbutt said:

Hi Richard,

Alas no. I bought my EFE BTH from Rails when they were on discount. On unpacking I was immediately aware of something shaking loose in the box. I managed to retrieve the loose items and worked out they were parts of the flexible drive between the motor and the bogie. Nothing appeared to be actually broken.

 

I did not want the bother of returning the item and Rails only had one other of the version I had ordered. I felt there was a reasonable chance I could fix it.

However, before doing anything,I contacted Rails to explain the situation. I asked that if I failed to fix it or found something broken inside which I could not see would they still honour the returns guarantee if I had a go.

This they agreed to.

 

I did manage to reassemble the flexible drive and checked the running before replacing the body.

 

As you may have found, the body is quite a tight fit and during the reassembly one of the cab windows got pushed in. Not being able to gain access inside the cab, with great difficulty I managed to refix the window by holding it with a bit of blutack on the end of a pencil. I didn't quite get it as flush as it was originally but it is just about acceptable.

 

One of the drivers seats is also now loose in the cab.

 

As you have already mentioned, the cab is locked in position by the two engine hoods which are glued in. The cab floor is glued to the rest of the cab. The only way that I think I could gain access would be by cutting out the cab floor to effect a better repair of the window, refix the driver's seat and add a crew and finally glue the floor back into position. Not feeling brave enough to do that at the moment but one day ....

 

Reading the above I am now looking at my old Lima diesels with greater affection.  Prise off the body, there's a good chance the loose weight, one piece glazing for the windows and probably the cabs would all fall out of their own accord.... 

[Bucoops]

38 minutes ago, Keith Turbutt said:

Hi Richard,

Alas no. I bought my EFE BTH from Rails when they were on discount. On unpacking I was immediately aware of something shaking loose in the box. I managed to retrieve the loose items and worked out they were parts of the flexible drive between the motor and the bogie. Nothing appeared to be actually broken.

 

I did not want the bother of returning the item and Rails only had one other of the version I had ordered. I felt there was a reasonable chance I could fix it.

However, before doing anything,I contacted Rails to explain the situation. I asked that if I failed to fix it or found something broken inside which I could not see would they still honour the returns guarantee if I had a go.

This they agreed to.

 

I did manage to reassemble the flexible drive and checked the running before replacing the body.

 

As you may have found, the body is quite a tight fit and during the reassembly one of the cab windows got pushed in. Not being able to gain access inside the cab, with great difficulty I managed to refix the window by holding it with a bit of blutack on the end of a pencil. I didn't quite get it as flush as it was originally but it is just about acceptable.

 

One of the drivers seats is also now loose in the cab.

 

As you have already mentioned, the cab is locked in position by the two engine hoods which are glued in. The cab floor is glued to the rest of the cab. The only way that I think I could gain access would be by cutting out the cab floor to effect a better repair of the window, refix the driver's seat and add a crew and finally glue the floor back into position. Not feeling brave enough to do that at the moment but one day ....

 

 

Hi Keith.

 

That's a shame to read, but assuming it's the same factory, not a great surprise. The components aren't bad, but the build quality is definitely poor.

 

I'll try and put together something to show how to get it apart - may be useful for yourself and others. 

 

Fortunately, my one runs very nicely, it's the cosmetic and wiring that lets it down.