Wright writes.....

[MJI]

2 hours ago, Mike 84C said:

The mention of Healings flour mill, brought back memories of delivering wheat there. One time the river was so high that the barges that brought wheat from Avonmouth were on a level with the lorry park and the decks way above! And all the meadows opposite like a brown lake.

Seen the barges on the Severn on multiple occasions

[Tony Wright]

1 hour ago, 46444 said:

Good evening Tony.

 

I am considering purchasing a temperature controlled soldering iron for etched brass and whitemetal working.

 

I am thinking of purchasing this Antex model:

 

https://www.antex.co.uk/store/p/m12-w9wdk-mg96e-7bnxp-hke3z-ndrtm-cjw7g-cws4k-56tfy-djrm2

 

Would more knowledgable modellers be able to comment on its suitability.

 

I am not planning on competing with Tony on his level of producing completed kits by the way.

 

As a starter and introduction into etched brass kit building I am considering buiding this RT Models LT Hurst-Nelson brake van kit.

 

https://www.rtmodels.co.uk/london transport hurst nelson brake van kit.jpg

 

I currently have a general purpose 18W Antex iron by the way.

 

Cheers,

 

Mark

Good evening Mark,

 

It looks an excellent purchase. I've used an Antex temperature-controlled iron (50Watt) for over a quarter of a century without any problems (apart from one iron packing up, though easily replaced - not the main control box).

 

I also use an Xytronic LF-389D 60Watt temperature-controlled iron, available from Hobby Holidays.

 

I hope this helps. You'll certainly need more than 18W!

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Edited August 6 by Tony Wright
to add something

[1471SirFrederickBanbury]

18 hours ago, 46444 said:

Good evening Tony.

 

I am considering purchasing a temperature controlled soldering iron for etched brass and whitemetal working.

 

I am thinking of purchasing this Antex model:

 

https://www.antex.co.uk/store/p/m12-w9wdk-mg96e-7bnxp-hke3z-ndrtm-cjw7g-cws4k-56tfy-djrm2

 

Would more knowledgable modellers be able to comment on its suitability.

 

I am not planning on competing with Tony on his level of producing completed kits by the way.

 

As a starter and introduction into etched brass kit building I am considering buiding this RT Models LT Hurst-Nelson brake van kit.

 

https://www.rtmodels.co.uk/london transport hurst nelson brake van kit.jpg

 

I currently have a general purpose 18W Antex iron by the way.

 

Cheers,

 

Mark

If I may,  I’ve seen very good results from simple stupid Soldering guns.  One Paul Budzik has made incredibly fine and precise work with a 300 watt Weller D650.

 I bought the D650’s smaller brother, the 140 watt 8200 (for about £25 I should add), and even though I need new/decent tips and I’d still like a D650, I can tell you that it’ll power through anything in its way (on the first run with a corroded, non Weller tip, it easily melted a large chunk of lead like it was a blowtorch)

 

Temperature control is by slackening/tightening the nuts that hold the tips on, and you’ll know if your using a non genuine tip, because it’ll slowly melt into nothing over the course of a month of use!  In doubt, go with more power, as it gives you more flexibility and tolerance for flaws in technique.

Edited August 7 by 1471SirFrederickBanbury
Forgot to add about how cheap a good soldering gun can be

[sandra]

4 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Good evening Sandra,

 

Thanks for showing this; it is, indeed, a lovely-looking loco.

 

That said, you have every right to be cross (with me), having bought (effectively) a very-pretty dud (as I have every right to be cross with whoever built it for not ensuring that it was 'fit for purpose' - that being, an ability to haul heavy trains at speed over a long distance). Clearly, that original builder (I have no idea whom) must have known that it was destined for a static, glass case existence, so I suppose (to him - I'm assuming it's a him) he'd satisfied the brief). That said, at a cost of well over a grand, the chap who ordered it should, surely, have expected it to work well (it was the only loco in the large collection, built in EM). 

 

What I find interesting about the whole collection, is about 50% ran really well, needing no attention from me at all (other than a check-over and an oil), and were sold as 'good runners' (no one who bought them has complained). A further 40% needed a bit more work on my part (but ended up 'reasonable runners'), leaving 10% which were mechanical duds, and sold as such. The problem with your A3 was (is) its being in EM. Other than on Retford, I had no other means of really testing it. Had it been built to the same mechanically-poor standard in OO, I would have known in no time of its problems (LB finds out duds almost as quickly as Retford), bought it myself (at a discount because of it being mechanically-dud), then mechanically-rebuilt it.

 

You should not have had to spend so much time and money sorting it out.

 

Finally, if the brief to all his builders by the late commissioner incorporated the condition 'It doesn't have to run well, because it'll live in a display cabinet', why did so many run so well? Two, built by the late Graham Varley, were, as expected, superb performers.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Hello Tony,

 

I’m not cross with you, I examined the locomotive before I bought it and I was quite happy with it and you gave me no guarantee that it would be reliable so how can you be in any way to blame? In fact the locomotive has become rather a challenge to get to work and I’m fairly confident that it will eventually become an asset to Retford.

 

In fact since I bought it I have been working on two further A3s for Retford. This is a DJH A3 I bought off eBay.

It isn’t finished yet but here she is hauling the up “Heart of Midlothian” a 13 coach train. I bought the locomotive in a built condition but as I’ve almost completely rebuilt it I am counting it as one built by me. It will become 60063 “Isinglass”. The DJH kit is very good and it’s a shame it was withdrawn so long ago.

This is an A3 I’ve built from a Southeast Finecast kit. It’s 60061 “Pretty Polly”. She is hauling a down Kings Cross-York/Hull train.  The SE finecast kit does date from the early days of white metal kits and whilst it has been updated it does still have some faults. For example I spent hours filing the side of the footplate to represent the angle iron. The kit has the side of the footplate as flat. However I enjoyed building her and I’m quite pleased with the result.

 

Sandra

[Bucoops]

2 hours ago, 46444 said:

Good evening Tony.

 

I am considering purchasing a temperature controlled soldering iron for etched brass and whitemetal working.

 

I am thinking of purchasing this Antex model:

 

https://www.antex.co.uk/store/p/m12-w9wdk-mg96e-7bnxp-hke3z-ndrtm-cjw7g-cws4k-56tfy-djrm2

 

Would more knowledgable modellers be able to comment on its suitability.

 

I am not planning on competing with Tony on his level of producing completed kits by the way.

 

As a starter and introduction into etched brass kit building I am considering buiding this RT Models LT Hurst-Nelson brake van kit.

 

https://www.rtmodels.co.uk/london transport hurst nelson brake van kit.jpg

 

I currently have a general purpose 18W Antex iron by the way.

 

Cheers,

 

Mark

 

Sadly Antex aren't what they used to be. I have two - one is older than me and still works fine - but is low wattage so doesn't get used often. The other is one of these - https://www.antex.co.uk/store/p/m12-w9wdk-mg96e-y7lr5-wh7k3-t9ktb

 

I had to have the flex changed under warranty, and then I had to do it again a year or so later. I couldn't tell you the last time I used it.

 

I can recommend this however (and it was bought after a recommendation on here) - https://www.circuitspecialists.eu/csi-premier75w-digital-temperature-controlled-solder-station-with-75w-soldering-iron

 

[Andy Hayter]

10 minutes ago, Bucoops said:

 

Sadly Antex aren't what they used to be. I have two - one is older than me and still works fine - but is low wattage so doesn't get used often. The other is one of these - https://www.antex.co.uk/store/p/m12-w9wdk-mg96e-y7lr5-wh7k3-t9ktb

 

I had to have the flex changed under warranty, and then I had to do it again a year or so later. I couldn't tell you the last time I used it.

 

I can recommend this however (and it was bought after a recommendation on here) - https://www.circuitspecialists.eu/csi-premier75w-digital-temperature-controlled-solder-station-with-75w-soldering-iron

 

 

I will second that recommendation.  Excellent products.  Changed my soldering from Mr Blobby to clean and neat.

[polybear]

6 hours ago, Bucoops said:

 

Sadly Antex aren't what they used to be. I have two - one is older than me and still works fine - but is low wattage so doesn't get used often. The other is one of these - https://www.antex.co.uk/store/p/m12-w9wdk-mg96e-y7lr5-wh7k3-t9ktb

 

Rumour has it (from a very respected member of RMWeb) that the bits are not what they used to be either.

 

6 hours ago, Bucoops said:

I can recommend this however (and it was bought after a recommendation on here) - https://www.circuitspecialists.eu/csi-premier75w-digital-temperature-controlled-solder-station-with-75w-soldering-iron

 

 

I can recommend this** - I have one and whilst I can't claim to have used it a lot as yet (though it has been to Missenden Abbey twice/three times already) it's done everything I could want of it); spares (such as a spare handle) also seem to be readily available and a wide range of tips is available at a very fair price.  The heat-up time is very, very quick as well:

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B08KS9SG7W/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

The fifty quid you'll save over the Antex will buy a lot of spare tips.....

 

** Chosen after a LOT of research on the 'net.

 

HTH

Brian

[DCB]

On 24/07/2024 at 00:02, manna said:

G'Day Folks

 

Earlier year I had to spend money on New tyres, and waited for the tyre fitters to do their job, so I walked the dog around the expansive yard, while there I picked up many lead weights that littered the yard, I now have a couple of Kilo's of lead for future use.

 

Terry (aka manna)

 

Assuming Aussie Lead weights are the same as UK ones, the clip on ones with a steel clamp can easily be melted down into ingots or any shape you like with a simple Butane Gas Blowlamp.  I make a wooden "Mould" and melt them and let the residue drip into the mould then File to shape with a coarse wood rasp.  Works for lead waste pipes even incredibly gungy ones which magically transform into shiny metal.  I find the stick on ones are less dense and you need more for the same weight compared to the clip on ones.    I used to drive Tyre fitters apoplectic by not having my tires balanced.  Quite often the balance is fairly close and as long as the wheel is true won't need balancing. We used to get a lot of complaints at work as tyres balanced on out static balancer went out of balance very quickly after fitting, so Jack, my boss would not do a balance, give the car a run and see if it needed any balance and 9 times out of 10 it was fine.  If not we had an on car balancer as well as a static.   Most tyre shops only have off car balancers. 

They make their money from Balancing and alignment. I have my own alignment kit (Dunlop) and do my own alignment. My steering wheels are always straight when going straight, and turns the same number of turns left as it does right  Usually to the most parallel tolerance on the spec sheet as my driving is predominantly on straight fast roads and usually I scrap tyres because the whole tyre has worn out not just an inner or outer  shoulder, it shows I'm on the right track

 

[queensquare]

14 hours ago, lezz01 said:

It's not the chip that worries me it's fitting a worthwhile speaker that's the problem. There is plenty of room in the 1F but the two I have already built have all of the empty space filled with lead that is glued in hard and fast as DCC wasn't around when I built them and retrofitting chips and speakers wasn't on the horizon. I doubt that I can remove it without destroying the loco body. The problem with the Johnson dock tank is there isn't anywhere to put either a chip or speaker without milling out the tank as there isn't much of a cab on them. The Deeley one would be fine for chipping and speaker fitting but I'm a little gun shy of the Walschaerts valve gear as it's very, very small and the mince pies ain't what they used to be. Mind you Dave Basford has done a very nice etched brass kit for the Johnson so maybe that's the answer.

Regards Lez.    

I’d agree that retro fitting a speaker is tricky - not a problem if planned from the start. I’m not particularly interested in sound but am a complete convert to squeezing some stay alive capacitors in to my smaller 2FS locos which transform reliability. Like your speakers, space can usually be found if planned from the start - much more challenging when you’ve already shoehorned as much weight in as possible!

 

Jerry

[jacko]

13 hours ago, 46444 said:

Good evening Tony.

 

I am considering purchasing a temperature controlled soldering iron for etched brass and whitemetal working.

 

I am thinking of purchasing this Antex model:

 

https://www.antex.co.uk/store/p/m12-w9wdk-mg96e-7bnxp-hke3z-ndrtm-cjw7g-cws4k-56tfy-djrm2

 

Would more knowledgable modellers be able to comment on its suitability.

 

I am not planning on competing with Tony on his level of producing completed kits by the way.

 

As a starter and introduction into etched brass kit building I am considering buiding this RT Models LT Hurst-Nelson brake van kit.

 

https://www.rtmodels.co.uk/london transport hurst nelson brake van kit.jpg

 

I currently have a general purpose 18W Antex iron by the way.

 

Cheers,

 

Mark

 

I treated myself to the digital version at Christmas - 690D Digital Soldering Station from Antex : Amazon.co.uk: DIY & Tools   It heats up very quickly and so far has been perfect for soldering droppers (plus a couple of other non-railway related jobs).  I recently bought a couple of Comet coach kits so I'll be starting on those when the weather gets too cold for building the railway in the garage, 

 

Graeme

[Tony Wright]

10 hours ago, sandra said:

Hello Tony,

 

I’m not cross with you, I examined the locomotive before I bought it and I was quite happy with it and you gave me no guarantee that it would be reliable so how can you be in any way to blame? In fact the locomotive has become rather a challenge to get to work and I’m fairly confident that it will eventually become an asset to Retford.

 

In fact since I bought it I have been working on two further A3s for Retford. This is a DJH A3 I bought off eBay.

It isn’t finished yet but here she is hauling the up “Heart of Midlothian” a 13 coach train. I bought the locomotive in a built condition but as I’ve almost completely rebuilt it I am counting it as one built by me. It will become 60063 “Isinglass”. The DJH kit is very good and it’s a shame it was withdrawn so long ago.

This is an A3 I’ve built from a Southeast Finecast kit. It’s 60061 “Pretty Polly”. She is hauling a down Kings Cross-York/Hull train.  The SE finecast kit does date from the early days of white metal kits and whilst it has been updated it does still have some faults. For example I spent hours filing the side of the footplate to represent the angle iron. The kit has the side of the footplate as flat. However I enjoyed building her and I’m quite pleased with the result.

 

Sandra

Good morning Sandra,

 

Thanks for your sentiments.

 

I, too, have both 60061 and 60063, but the opposite way around to yours.

 

 

I based my model (built from a DJH kit) with the loco in this condition, with double chimney. Before..............

 

 

She was one of the quartet of A3s in BR days to receive these useless 'fin' deflectors.

 

 

 

 

Geoff Haynes painted her for me. (It would appear that she has the wrong - though right - style of '6's on her front numberplate; not Geoff's fault, because they're as supplied). 

 

I built my model of ISINGLASS from a SE Finecast kit.............

 

 

Originally to run on Charwelton (Ian Rathbone painted her). 

 

I didn't go as far as adding the lip to the valance (you're more-noble), but I did narrow the tender body (as did you?).

 

She now sees service on Little Bytham....................

 

 

 

 

 

Of course, both locos could regularly be seen at Retford...............

 

 

Even on the GN shed.

 

 

And, certainly racing through!

 

Please (all) observe copyright restrictions on the prototype images.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[coronach]

Not having dabbled in chassis construction for several years, I am planning to build a Dave Bradwell chassis for my J39. I have been advised to fit a High-level roadrunner+ gearbox and I will use the Romford axles and wheels I have in stock. Am I correct in thinking that the gearbox option I need to order is to fit a 3mm axle diameter as I think Romford are 1/8”?  The High-level website suggests 3mm is an uncommon size - common sizes being 1.5 mm and 2 mm. Can anyone please advise me and is my plan a good one?

[Bucoops]

21 minutes ago, coronach said:

Not having dabbled in chassis construction for several years, I am planning to build a Dave Bradwell chassis for my J39. I have been advised to fit a High-level roadrunner+ gearbox and I will use the Romford axles and wheels I have in stock. Am I correct in thinking that the gearbox option I need to order is to fit a 3mm axle diameter as I think Romford are 1/8”?  The High-level website suggests 3mm is an uncommon size - common sizes being 1.5 mm and 2 mm. Can anyone please advise me and is my plan a good one?

 

The 1.5mm and 2mm are motor shaft diameter (worm bore). There is the 1/8" option for axles. Sorry about the huge picture.

 

Edited August 7 by Bucoops
add image

[Barry Ten]

On 02/05/2023 at 20:57, Tony Wright said:

Good evening Andy,

 

It was our pleasure, and thanks for your hospitality at lunchtime.

 

As usual, Little Bytham performed faultlessly, but I didn't; too busy wind-bagging on my part to set the correct roads/switches at times, but all great fun. Thanks for driving so diligently.

 

And, particular thanks for your donation for sale on behalf of CRUK of the following three locos.........

 

 

A 94XX; SE Finecast kit, I think.

 

 

A County 4-4-0; again, I think, SE Finecast.

 

 

And an Earl (I think it's an Earl, judging by its name). This is built from an etched brass kit.

 

You say you bought bought them from the estate of a deceased NZ modeller. Nicely built/painted, none has a motor/gears, though the chassis are free-running. I probably don't have the time to fit motors, though it shouldn't be beyond any half-decent modeller's skills to do so. I'm holding fire for the moment to assess what's best (though if anyone is interested, and would like to venture a tentative offer, please PM me). 

 

Once again, many thanks for your generosity. Enjoy Stamford tomorrow morning, and have a safe journey back home.

 

Did your pictures turn out?

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

 

Going back a bit, but the post above mentions three unmotorised GWR locos that were (I believe) donated to Tony by Andy R during a visit from New Zealand. The locos had come from a late friend of Andy's, also based in NZ. I subsequently acquired them and have been intending to get them motorised and running. I picked up a set of motor/gearbox combos from the Branchlines stand at Railwells, so over the last couple of nights, I set to work!

 

I decided to start with the 3200 class Dukedog "Earl of Eldon", because I reckoned if I could get a motor into this one, the other two would be a (relative) doddle.

 

 

My main concerns lay in dismantling the loco and finding sufficient room inside. I had to do a little unsoldering at the bottom of the outside frames (removing the straps at the bottom of the wheel slots) but once that was one, the chassis came out without too much trouble. I put in a 50:1 gearbox with a Mashima motor. The motor was a bit wider than desirable (if I'd been clever, I'd have checked first), but I was able to find room by grinding away some of the brass on the inside of the boiler, and then cutting a triangular notch in the top of the chassis to allow the motor to sit at a lower angle. At all stages I was careful not to overheat the parts or risk any cosmetic damage. As can be seen, the outside cranks had to be removed but since the model was very free-rolling as it came, I was confident all would go back together well provided I preserved the quartering. Addition of pickups proved to be straightforward since there was plenty of room to work under the chassis.

 

The loco runs smoothly and I think it will have a fair bit of power, but it now needs weight adding. Luckily, there's plenty of room over the drivers, so I don't think this will be a problem.

 

I do plan to repaint this one as the varnish is a bit gritty but it looks fine for now.

 

Here's a very brief clip of the loco under power:

 

 

Hope this is of interest, and thanks to Andy R and Tony for providing the locos.

 

 

 

 

[Northmoor]

During a visit to Dad over the weekend I found the part-built "Claud" he'd picked up at least ten years ago, which I thought was from a Little Engines kit but now think it might be much older (and not just because of the box it comes in, or parts with price in old pence.....  It's been rather nicely assembled, but there is no chassis for loco or tender so that's going to position it to the right on my learning curve, although wheels for bogie and tender are completed.  Anyone recognise the motor?

 

 

[Captain Kernow]

1 hour ago, coronach said:

Not having dabbled in chassis construction for several years, I am planning to build a Dave Bradwell chassis for my J39. I have been advised to fit a High-level roadrunner+ gearbox and I will use the Romford axles and wheels I have in stock. Am I correct in thinking that the gearbox option I need to order is to fit a 3mm axle diameter as I think Romford are 1/8”?  The High-level website suggests 3mm is an uncommon size - common sizes being 1.5 mm and 2 mm. Can anyone please advise me and is my plan a good one?

Romford and Markits axles are 1/8" and indeed this is still the most common axle size. You can indeed get 3mm axles from the main wheel manufacturers, but you should still check the diameter of your existing wheels, just to be sure. High Level can supply for driving axles of 1/8" or 3mm.

 

[Bucoops]

8 minutes ago, Northmoor said:

During a visit to Dad over the weekend I found the part-built "Claud" he'd picked up at least ten years ago, which I thought was from a Little Engines kit but now think it might be much older (and not just because of the box it comes in, or parts with price in old pence.....  It's been rather nicely assembled, but there is no chassis for loco or tender so that's going to position it to the right on my learning curve, although wheels for bogie and tender are completed.  Anyone recognise the motor?

 

 

 

I wonder if it is a Mallard/Blacksmith kit? It looks very similar to the ones I have.

 

Mark who now owns Blacksmith supplied a chassis etch a while back - mark seward <info@blacksmithmodels.co.uk>

 

[John Isherwood]

32 minutes ago, Bucoops said:

 

I wonder if it is a Mallard/Blacksmith kit? It looks very similar to the ones I have.

 

Mark who now owns Blacksmith supplied a chassis etch a while back - mark seward <info@blacksmithmodels.co.uk>

 

 

Could the motor be Hornby Dublo?

 

CJI.

[SR71]

17 minutes ago, John Isherwood said:

 

Could the motor be Hornby Dublo?

 

CJI.

Yes, looks like a 1/2" from 8f/Castle before they went to the ringfield.

[Chuffer Davies]

2 hours ago, coronach said:

Not having dabbled in chassis construction for several years, I am planning to build a Dave Bradwell chassis for my J39. I have been advised to fit a High-level roadrunner+ gearbox and I will use the Romford axles and wheels I have in stock. Am I correct in thinking that the gearbox option I need to order is to fit a 3mm axle diameter as I think Romford are 1/8”?  The High-level website suggests 3mm is an uncommon size - common sizes being 1.5 mm and 2 mm. Can anyone please advise me and is my plan a good one?

Hi,

there are three parameters you need to specify:  the axle diameter which will be 1/8th inch, the motor shaft diameter which depends on the motor you are using (1.5 or 2mm) and the gear ratio.  The ratio will depend on what the loco will be required to do and the nominal speed of the motor under load.  I would recommend buying a High Level coreless motor (1320 or 1219 both have a shaft diameter of 1.5mm) and either 40/1 ratio for a Roundy-Roundy  layout or 60/1 excellent for shunting but a lower top speed.  
Frank

[DCB]

44 minutes ago, John Isherwood said:

 

Could the motor be Hornby Dublo?

 

CJI.

It's the 1/2" Hornby Dublo - Wrenn motor from the pre ringfield  8F and Castle, the R1 and the Wrenn N2 (which had a stretched R1 chassis.  A very nice solid motor with singe start worm so a lot lower geared than a X04.  The motor takes the 5 pole double ended armature  from the Airfix MRRC range if the armature shaft is shortened , NOT the X04 clone which has an armature which is too short, that makes it lovely and smooth if gutless .

The Claud is beautiful, almost a shame to paint it.  It might be possible to drive the leading coupled axle  with a motor in the smokebox as per the Guy Williams book, or from the tender with a drive shaft under the floor a la original  Pendon 28XX but otherwise you risk a cab full of motor.  I would stick with a heritage motor, some of my H/D motors are 60 years old and still going strong while my DS10 and 11 are in the scrap box.  The Airfix 14XX motor works well as a Tender motor / loco drive solution.  The Comet chassis is a nice display solution but in my experience hopeless for hauling trains especially when compensated as wear rapidly builds up and running deteriorates to be worse than 1960s RTR   Couplingrods and crank pins are particuar weaak spots.

[Michael Edge]

If it’s a Mallard kit it’s missing the etched overlay on the valance. 

[DCB]

On 06/08/2024 at 22:33, sandra said:

Hello Tony,

 This is a DJH A3 I bought off eBay.

It isn’t finished yet but here she is hauling the up “Heart of Midlothian” a 13 coach train. I bought the locomotive in a built condition but as I’ve almost completely rebuilt it I am counting it as one built by me. It will become 60063 “Isinglass”.

Sandra

I have a horrible feeling that the cab is as per the first batch of  A1's to the GNR loading gauge.  They didn't stay that way for long being cut down to the LNER composite loading gauge  by lowering the cab roof and I suspect shortening the cab sides which made them look more muscular and powerful

[Flying Fox 34F]

9 hours ago, Bucoops said:

 

 

I’ve noticed some unusual about this chassis etch.  The driving wheel axles drop in from the top.  Interesting idea, though does it make setting a chassis up any easier?

 

Paul

[polybear]

4 minutes ago, Flying Fox 34F said:

I’ve noticed some unusual about this chassis etch.  The driving wheel axles drop in from the top.  Interesting idea, though does it make setting a chassis up any easier?

 

Paul

 

Designed to be sprung perhaps?  Seems unusual though.

Edited August 8 by polybear