Wright writes.....

[Tony Wright]

28 minutes ago, dibateg said:

Tony mentioned a few posts back about documenting builds, I have done a few of my 7mm loco builds. here are just a couple selected from around 40 taken of my build of the Finney V2.

Brilliant work Tony,

 

Thanks for showing us.

 

It's in rather a different league from what I 'play' in.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[t-b-g]

The HSTs have undoubtedly been the great success story of our railways, along with some abroad, for many years.

 

In terms of mileages and efficiency, they are the winners hands down.

 

In terms of the emotional response they elicited in this young trainspotter when they came out, I hated them. They replaced my beloved Deltics and turned a huge proportion of ECML services into a boring procession where every express train looked the same. We used to get a few different classes of loco and a big variety of coaching stock and train lengths. All the variation in train make up vanished. My enthusiasm for real railways never recovered from the shock!

 

When the Deltics were being withdrawn, I travelled many miles to see them and catch their final days. When the HSTs disappeared off the ECML I couldn't have cared less.

 

So it all depends on how you measure greatness. Is it purely in the best numbers, or the most reliable, or the one that makes the most money, or does the emotional side of things come into play?

Edited July 24 by t-b-g
typo

[Keith Turbutt]

8 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

With regard to the merits of the HST (which, I suppose has two 'locomotives', because they're described as such in the loco sections of many books listing stock), by all yardsticks, they have no equal in my view. Almost no route is denied to them, and they've travelled more squadron miles, at very high speed and carried more passengers than any other 'train' ever seen in these islands. If that's not enough to be called 'best ever', then I don't know what is. 

For some 20 years I have made an annual visit to a friend, a member of Inverness MRC, who lives in Strathpeffer, at the time of their annual show in the Summer. Most of these journeys have been by train and, until a couple of years ago, by HST. This train being the 12 o'clock midday departure from KingsX and named The Highland Chieftain providing a limited stop through service to Inverness and arriving at Inverness around 8.45pm. There was also a return service departing Inverness at 8.50(?)am involving an early start and arriving back at KingsX around 4.30.

 

It's a journey I always look forward to and enjoy the variety of scenery along the journey.

 

The train is still advertised but the HSTs have now been replaced by new hybrid units running on electric power as far as Falkirk (?) and diesel for the remainder of the journey.

 

Would this have been the longest HST service in the UK. Also is it unique as a named train these days?

 

 

[Northmoor]

8 minutes ago, t-b-g said:

The HSTs have undoubtedly been the great success story of our railways, along with some abroad, for many years.

 

In terms of mileages and efficiency, they are the winners hands down.

 

In terms of the emotional response they elicited in this young trainspotter when they came out, I hated them. They replaced my beloved Deltics and turned a huge proportion of ECML services into a boring procession where every express train looked the same. We used to get a few different classes of loco and a big variety of coaching stock and train lengths. All the variation in train make up vanished. My enthusiasm for real railways never recovered from the shock!

 

When the Deltics were being withdrawn, I travelled many miles to see them and catch their final days. When the HSTs disappeared off the ECML I couldn't have cared less.

 

So it all depends on how you measure greatness. Is it purely in the best numbers, or the most reliable, or the one that makes the most money, or does the emotional side of things come into play?

 

I would suggest that "greatness" is best measured by the response of everyone EXCEPT railway enthusiasts.

 

1 minute ago, Keith Turbutt said:

For some 20 years I have made an annual visit to a friend, a member of Inverness MRC, who lives in Strathpeffer, at the time of their annual show in the Summer. Most of these journeys have been by train and, until a couple of years ago, by HST. This train being the 12 o'clock midday departure from KingsX and named The Highland Chieftain providing a limited stop through service to Inverness and arriving at Inverness around 8.45pm. There was also a return service departing Inverness at 8.50(?)am involving an early start and arriving back at KingsX around 4.30.

 

It's a journey I always look forward to and enjoy the variety of scenery along the journey.

 

The train is still advertised but the HSTs have now been replaced by new hybrid units running on electric power as far as Falkirk (?) and diesel for the remainder of the journey.

 

Would this have been the longest HST service in the UK. Also is it unique as a named train these days?

 

 

In the latter half of the 80s, there was a summer service operated by a 125 from Penzance to Elgin; I think the balancing service ran from Aberdeen.  No doubt the guard enjoyed reading out the calling points after every station early on in the journey; I think it stopped about eight times in Cornwall alone.  By way of contrast, the Pembrokeshire - London services provided some highlights; the 1730 off Paddington through to Milford Haven was non-stop to Bristol Parkway and that leg was the fastest scheduled diesel service in the world.  The "Hibernian" - the afternoon Fishguard Harbour - Paddington in the late 80s - stopped only at Llanelli, Cardiff and Paddington in just over 220 minutes for about 275 miles.  Not especially fast, but it couldn't do 100mph until East of Cardiff......

[jimwal]

Engines, Locomotives, Trains.

 

For what it's worth, I would suggest that the "Locomotive is the Engine of the Train".

 

If a train fails, then a light engine is called to assist by providing an engine for the failed train.

 

In signalling block working the light engine has to regarded in the same way as a train as it occupies a block section. 

Railway workers would refer to "engines" rather than "locomotives", perhaps because it was easier to say. "Locos" seems to be in more common use with enthusiasts.

[St Enodoc]

10 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Good afternoon John,

 

Ah, semantics!

 

It's still described as 'light engine' (and should carry the appropriate lamp code, front and rear), but 'engine' is a misnomer, because that really refers to the number of cylinders (a minimum of two?). 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

I understand that, in the early days, the formal term was "locomotive engine", to distinguish it from "stationary engine". The contractions "locomotive" and "engine" could, therefore, both be considered correct.

[Coach bogie]

13 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

With regard to the merits of the HST (which, I suppose has two 'locomotives', because they're described as such in the loco sections of many books listing stock), by all yardsticks, they have no equal in my view. Almost no route is denied to them, and they've travelled more squadron miles, at very high speed and carried more passengers than any other 'train' ever seen in these islands. If that's not enough to be called 'best ever', then I don't know what is. 

With the idea exported to other Isles as well. Australian built XPT version, 2012 with 2010 to rear, heading for Brisbane from Sydney. The only regular, standard gauge passenger carrying train to Brisbane (The others are 3ft 6" gauge). The XPT sets are one of the most utilised train fleets worldwide. They should have all been replaced last year but delays in the alternatives should see them remain on current diagrams, after 45 years of service until 2027, with hints they could see redeployment elsewhere after that. There can not be many government projects in both UK and Australia that equal the value for money these sets have delivered to the tax payer.

 

Mike Wiltshire

[1471SirFrederickBanbury]

12 hours ago, Bucoops said:

 

And quite a few are now chuntering up and down the rails in Mexico of all places.

 

As a die-hard LNER Steam buff, the HST wins. I believe two of the power cars are still the holders of the diesel world speed record?

Now if only we could use GWR Autocoach type technology to make an LNER streamliner with two A4s (the A4s being modified/new built with double piston valves, a triple Lempor exhaust and all roller bearings for every moving part of the train, and modern advanced materials if newly built, maybe an electric booster motor on some axles to help start the train more quickly).  Now that would be the force to be reckoned with!  I'd ride it every day just for the sake of supporting such an endeavour! Not to mention how fast such a spectacle would be!

[1471SirFrederickBanbury]

8 hours ago, dibateg said:

Tony mentioned a few posts back about documenting builds, I have done a few of my 7mm loco builds. here are just a couple selected from around 40 taken of my build of the Finney V2.

I really want to build one (more like a fleet of them) in 4mm scale (S4X dead scale in every single way of course), but I want it to be made of Tungsten, for the weight, so I guess I'm just going to have to scratchbuild it myself!  Wont be too difficult once I find out how to get a BCA jig borer to the US, which so far has been the most frustrating challenge of my life!  I'm also going to see if I can send @t-b-g samples of Precision's Doncaster green, mixed with different amounts of varnish and sprayed over different base colours to see which is closest to an example I heard about from him on a different thread (

) to be able to get the best look possible, and I'll share the results of course, as well as have a panel to use as an example/swatch of the colour.  I also thankfully can use Peter Seymour-Howel's Flying Scotsman build blog as a resource for some of the fine points of difference between some Gresley locomotives and their construction.

[1471SirFrederickBanbury]

15 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Good afternoon John,

 

Ah, semantics!

 

It's still described as 'light engine' (and should carry the appropriate lamp code, front and rear), but 'engine' is a misnomer, because that really refers to the number of cylinders (a minimum of two?). 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

In America, it's always referred to as an "engine", even if its an articulated locomotive with two engines (engine is just the part that turns something into motion, usually rotary motion, which is why a triple expansion engine in a ship is just one engine, ditto for cars and planes with many cylinders). 

 

Growing up and living in the states, switching between my normal British terminology, from my Grandfather (who was taught English abroad, so mainly knew British forms and vocabulary) and Thomas the Tank Engine books and early Television series (I always was searching for the British dubs, and found them usually), and American terminology for everyone else was and is surprisingly difficult, and every so often, I'd accidently cause a disproportionally large amount of confusion when I would say "truck" or "wagon" or "van" or "tanker" or "coach/carriage" instead of "car", or "coupling" instead of "coupler" even!  At least its always funny to see their visibly confused faces while going on a tangent to explain the differences in terminology, somewhat similarly to what I'm doing now!

[thegreenhowards]

11 hours ago, t-b-g said:

The HSTs have undoubtedly been the great success story of our railways, along with some abroad, for many years.

 

In terms of mileages and efficiency, they are the winners hands down.

 

In terms of the emotional response they elicited in this young trainspotter when they came out, I hated them. They replaced my beloved Deltics and turned a huge proportion of ECML services into a boring procession where every express train looked the same. We used to get a few different classes of loco and a big variety of coaching stock and train lengths. All the variation in train make up vanished. My enthusiasm for real railways never recovered from the shock!

 

When the Deltics were being withdrawn, I travelled many miles to see them and catch their final days. When the HSTs disappeared off the ECML I couldn't have cared less.

 

So it all depends on how you measure greatness. Is it purely in the best numbers, or the most reliable, or the one that makes the most money, or does the emotional side of things come into play?

I couldn’t agree more. The Deltics were, are and always will be my greatest. I can’t bring myself to laud their executioner.

 

Andy

[Tony Wright]

5 hours ago, thegreenhowards said:

I couldn’t agree more. The Deltics were, are and always will be my greatest. I can’t bring myself to laud their executioner.

 

Andy

Good afternoon Andy,

 

I'm with you with regard to the Deltics; they're my favourite locomotive class of all time.

 

However, that's an enthusiast's viewpoint. When I first saw them, brand new, I thought they were worthy successors to the steam locos on the ECML I loved. They went faster and sounded brilliant! At the time, they made possible a timetable which not only demolished an equivalent journey by car, but also could compete with an airline (assuming a common starting point from Kings Cross or Waverley). 

 

However, by the time of the HSTs' appearance on the ECML, 100 mph maximum was not competitive enough, hence the need for sustained 125 mph running. Oddly (or is it odd?), I had no similar feelings about the appearance of the HSTs on the ECML as I had when I first saw the Deltics. Could it be that I was only going on 15 when I first saw TULYAR, as opposed to a grown man of 31when I first saw an HST set? And, that was on the WR, at Pangbourne. 

 

Without the HSTs, long distance, high speed rail travel in this realm would have been moribund. I think that's how they should be 'judged'. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Tony Wright]

Speaking of speed on the ECML (speed from years ago), I've just completed my latest SEF A4.

 

 

Complete with DJH tender (appropriate for 60006, being a streamlined non-corridor type).

 

 

Though I used the SEF frames, I dislike the cylinders, slidebars and crossheads supplied.

 

So, Comet equivalents were substituted - here I'm setting up the LH cylinder's position.

 

 

The South Eastern crossheads and slidebars are seen to the near right. Lost wax cast in brass, there's far too much cleaning up, and bending and twisting needed for my tastes.

 

I did use the SEF valve gear fret.

 

The RH motion is assembled and awaits attachment. 

 

 

Chassis work completed.  

 

The lubricator drive from the PH rear crankpin is not supplied by SEF (neither is it by Comet), and I just assembled it from spare frets.

 

Made to exact scale, I think it would be too delicate, so this is my compromise.

 

 

Time for a final, thorough series of layout tests.

 

I'll report accordingly.

 

I understand very well that the Hornby RTR body is probably more-accurate, and certainly has a finesse about it in comparison. However, I don't have great opinion on Hornby's mechanics, and the SEF one is considerably more-powerful; entirely meeting my needs on LB. 

 

I, of course, won't be painting it. 

 

 

Edited July 25 by Tony Wright
to add something

[Dunsignalling]

Deltics: brilliant but demanding excellent backup to keep them that way, and most of us didn't have them, anyway.

 

HST's: streets ahead of everything they displaced on all other routes, a step change in performance, reliability, and comfort for the paying punter, and the train that may well have saved the industry by attracting so many of them back. Not bad considering it was BR's "Plan B" built in much greater numbers than planned once the APT couldn't be made successful in the time available.

 

Locomotives? trains? engines, light or otherwise? units or whatever? For the operator or signaller, they are all simply " movements".  

 

[Tony Wright]

After thorough testing.................

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think I can say she's ready for painting........

 

 

 

 

[Northmoor]

5 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Good afternoon Andy,

 

I'm with you with regard to the Deltics; they're my favourite locomotive class of all time.

 

However, that's an enthusiast's viewpoint. When I first saw them, brand new, I thought they were worthy successors to the steam locos on the ECML I loved. They went faster and sounded brilliant! At the time, they made possible a timetable which not only demolished an equivalent journey by car, but also could compete with an airline (assuming a common starting point from Kings Cross or Waverley). 

 

However, by the time of the HSTs' appearance on the ECML, 100 mph maximum was not competitive enough, hence the need for sustained 125 mph running. Oddly (or is it odd?), I had no similar feelings about the appearance of the HSTs on the ECML as I had when I first saw the Deltics. Could it be that I was only going on 15 when I first saw TULYAR, as opposed to a grown man of 31when I first saw an HST set? And, that was on the WR, at Pangbourne. 

 

Without the HSTs, long distance, high speed rail travel in this realm would have been moribund. I think that's how they should be 'judged'. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Obviously completely out of period, but has a 125 set ever been run on Little Bytham, Tony?

[Barry Ten]

My M&SWJR 2-4-0 has been through the paint shop this week, taking advantage of a very mild dry spell. 

 

 

 

I put on a base coat of Tamiya matt black from a rattle can, then airbrushed on several coats of Precision GWR green. The remaining black bits were brush painted using Humbrol matt black. Buffer beams, transfers, number plates etc still to follow.

 

I'm not sure if the flange between the boiler and smokebox should be black or green, so I've left it green for now.

[robertcwp]

1 hour ago, Northmoor said:

Obviously completely out of period, but has a 125 set ever been run on Little Bytham, Tony?

No doubt it could be arranged!

P1080842m by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

[Tony Wright]

11 hours ago, Northmoor said:

Obviously completely out of period, but has a 125 set ever been run on Little Bytham, Tony?

Good morning Rob,

 

If one has, I didn't photograph it.

 

One did (in shortened form) on Stoke Summit.............

 

 

 

In my personal view, this was the most-distinguished livery carried by the HSTs.

 

 

Though it's 20 years since I took this shot (at Swayfield, shortly before getting drenched!).

 

I seem to have very few shots of model HSTs in my collection...........

 

 

Just some Dapol bodies in N Gauge.

 

 

And even smaller, in T Gauge!

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

[Tony Wright]

HSTs on Bytham?

 

I haven't even got a shot of a Class 91 on the layout.

 

I have, however, a few shots of diesel types on Little Bytham, including...............

 

 

Well in period is the first batch of EE Type 4s delivered to the ECML in 1958, which quickly became the motive power for 'The Master Cutler'.

 

In this earlier shot, the original (inaccurate) girder bridge is still present.

 

 

Later batches of EE Type 4s can just about be justified, and a DMU just prior to the station's demolition, though Mk.1 Pullman cars are too late for the period depicted.

 

Also, just about in period is.........

 

 

The prototype DELTIC (this is my first model of it - the one I dropped and it smashed to bits!).

 

 

And the Bachmann one which replaced it.

 

I saw the actual thing several times............

 

 

At Retford.

 

 

And at Doncaster.

 

Please observe copyright restriction on the above two images.

 

Definitely out of period are the production Deltics.............

 

 

But how can I not include them? Rule 1 and all that!

 

Other types include.........

 

 

A Birmingham RC&W Co. Type 2.

 

 

And a Baby Deltic (both detailed/weathered Heljan products).

 

 

Plus, a Hornby Brush Type 2.

 

 

And an ancient (but detailed/repainted/weathered Palitoy 'Peak'). 

 

I suppose one could get away with this.............

 

 

Bachmann Midland Pullman (one set was tested on the ECML, but wasn't fast enough).

 

Visitors bring some real curiosities with regard to diesels.........

 

 

How about this? Brought along a decade ago by Westerner and friends. One of Bulleid's creations? 

 

 

 

 

[thegreenhowards]

18 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Good afternoon Andy,

 

I'm with you with regard to the Deltics; they're my favourite locomotive class of all time.

 

However, that's an enthusiast's viewpoint. When I first saw them, brand new, I thought they were worthy successors to the steam locos on the ECML I loved. They went faster and sounded brilliant! At the time, they made possible a timetable which not only demolished an equivalent journey by car, but also could compete with an airline (assuming a common starting point from Kings Cross or Waverley). 

 

However, by the time of the HSTs' appearance on the ECML, 100 mph maximum was not competitive enough, hence the need for sustained 125 mph running. Oddly (or is it odd?), I had no similar feelings about the appearance of the HSTs on the ECML as I had when I first saw the Deltics. Could it be that I was only going on 15 when I first saw TULYAR, as opposed to a grown man of 31when I first saw an HST set? And, that was on the WR, at Pangbourne. 

 

Without the HSTs, long distance, high speed rail travel in this realm would have been moribund. I think that's how they should be 'judged'. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Morning Tony,

 

I can’t disagree with any of that…..but I still hate them!

 

Andy

[MikeParkin65]

1 hour ago, thegreenhowards said:

Morning Tony,

 

I can’t disagree with any of that…..but I still hate them!

 

Andy

What little 'soul' the HST's had was lost when the Valenta engines were replaced by quieter, cleaner more modern units imho. Most of the Deltics appeal is that sound I think, imagine if they'd been re engined!

[Geep7]

23 minutes ago, MikeParkin65 said:

What little 'soul' the HST's had was lost when the Valenta engines were replaced by quieter, cleaner more modern units imho. Most of the Deltics appeal is that sound I think, imagine if they'd been re engined!

Some of my earliest memories are standing by the down fast platform (on the car park side of the fence) of Hayes & Harlington station, watching HST's barrelling through at 100mph+. The sound will always stay with me, and something I don't think any sound chip (as good as they are) will ever be able to replicate.

[DenysW]

14 minutes ago, Geep7 said:

standing by the down fast platform (on the car park side of the fence) of Hayes & Harlington station,

Until they are replaced next year (or so) a similar-ish experience can be had on the car park side of the fence at Harlington (Beds) station, which is next to both the Up and Down fast lines. Less earth-shattering because it's only a 5-coach train. Go on a Saturday or Sunday - the ANPR access to the car park is much cheaper.

[C.A.T.Ford]

6 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

 

 

 

How about this? Brought along a decade ago by Westerner and friends. One of Bulleid's creations? 

 

 

 

 

One of three by Richard Maunsell.

 

CAT