Wright writes.....

[Izzy]

3 hours ago, 46444 said:

The gears are engaged in forward motion, but sometimes the chassis can be moved backwards with the gears not engaging with the worm .

If this is the case then it would suggest that the motor has become loose in the mount. One of the retaining screws being not tight enough/has come undone. In one direction the worm will be ‘pulled’ into the worm wheel, when the worm wheel is being pulled toward the motor. In the other the forces involved will push it away. If the motor is loose enough this will cause disengagement of the gear mesh. 

Bob

[46444]

1 hour ago, Tony Wright said:

Good afternoon Mark,

 

If the piece of brass wire mentioned is an 'anchor' for the gearbox, then it should be re-soldered. Unless it's what John Isherwood suggests, a kind of 'pivot'. 

 

I've come across dozens of kit-built locos where no 'restraint' has been in place to prevent a gearbox clattering up and down under load, often clouting the inside of the body.

 

I always install an wire stay.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

Good afternoon Tony,

 

Thankyou for your reply. Really appreciated. 

 

Much as I thought with the wire stay. I will solder it to anchor the gearbox. It does not look like a pivot as John suggests. The broken solder joints also would suggest it is probably an anchor for the gearbox.

 

Thank also to Brian, John and Frank for your informative replies.

 

I will report back on the repair shortly. The J71 has headed back to East Northamptonshire so will have to await my next visit.

 

Cheers,

 

Mark

 

[Ollie K]

3 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

I don't know John,

 

Other than at some point during her early preservation life, the boiler from SALMON TROUT was acquired as a spare for FLYING SCOTSMAN. I'll have to check it that was a Dia. 107 type.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

I believe FS carried an A4 boiler from 1978 to 2005 (250psi from 1999) when it was acquired by the NRM. Was the visual giveaway not the offset washout plugs, rather than parallel ones? 
 

Regarding the topic of rampant vegetation foiling attempts to photograph today’s railway, as someone who regularly pops over to Stoke Bank to see a railtour pass, I can also vouch it’s getting trickier every year! That said, there are still a couple of precious spots where it’s possible to find a decent vantage point without being on an overbridge.

 

Here’s ‘Blue Peter’ going well up the bank just beyond Bytham last week. Hardly a T.G. Hepburn / Colin Walker-worthy shot, but the relatively neat embankments and surviving GNR bridge make for a pleasing setting.

 

Cheers,

Ollie

[davidw]

5 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

 

 

ST SIMON had the original high cab ventilator; later, it was fitted to MERRY HAMPTON's cab. 

 

 

Oh dear.

 

I've just modelled 60066, any thoughts on how to model that?

 

David 

[Mike 84C]

Great piece of video, Blue Peter  looking great, no clag of black smoke and flying the feather. The crew should be congratulated, thanks for posting.

[Tony Wright]

2 hours ago, davidw said:

Oh dear.

 

I've just modelled 60066, any thoughts on how to model that?

 

David 

Good evening David,

 

Just add sections of metal to the right height.

 

 

John Houlden did just that when he built 60066 for his Gamston Bank.

 

 

It's quite distinctive.

 

 

Built from a DJH kit, it's now Geoff West's property.

 

Which period are you modelling 60066?

 

 

With a double chimney, she carried an A4 boiler.

 

 

 

It was very often on top-link jobs. 

 

For one week in August 1960, I saw her every day on the Down morning Talisman. 

 

 

 

One of the useful pictures used during Bytham's building (though it's a pity the station has been demolished).

 

Though later than 1958, this sort of thing is my modelling motivation. A powerful loco, travelling at high speed on a heavy train.

 

Please (all) observe copyright restrictions on the above prototype images. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

Edited July 21 by Tony Wright
poor spelling of name

[davidw]

1 hour ago, Tony Wright said:

Good evening David,

 

Just add sections of metal to the right height.

 

 

John Houlden did just that when he built 60066 for his Gamston Bank.

 

 

It's quite distinctive.

 

 

Built from a DJH kit, it's now Geoff West's property.

 

Which period are you modelling 60066?

 

 

With a double chimney, she carried an A4 boiler.

 

 

 

It was very often on top-link jobs. 

 

For one week in August 1960, I saw her every day on the Down morning Talisman. 

 

 

 

One of the useful pictures used during Bytham's building (though it's a pity the station has been demolished).

 

Though later than 1958, this sort of thing is my modelling motivation. A powerful loco, travelling at high speed on a heavy train.

 

Please (all) observe copyright restrictions on the above prototype images. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

1960/61 so it's got a 107 boiler, and double chimney, deflectors not present. In clean  condition. 

 

Thanks for posting the photos.

Edited July 21 by davidw

[jwealleans]

On 13/07/2024 at 12:17, polybear said:

I'm finding that the presence of the spring representations below each axle makes it more complex (at least for me) and I've yet to achieve any arrangement anywhere near what I'm happy with (I'm using 0.45mm N.S. wire & sleeving, incidentally).

Now after reviewing your photos again (I saved them into an email to myself for future reference) I wonder if you remove, or at least modify the "springs" as necessary in order to make for an easier and cleaner installation?  The photos suggest this may be the case

 

@polybear I see Tony has answered your question, but this may be of interest.  i have a similar problem to you with regard to springs on the B1 I'm building.  Instead of my usual long springy n/s wire (much like Sir) I have used little coils of phosphor-bronze wire which sit outside the springs.  

 

 

Another option if you prefer long and springy would be to put the copperclad pads on the opposite side and have the wire running transversely to bear on the wheel edge.

 

Edited July 21 by jwealleans

[polybear]

3 minutes ago, jwealleans said:

 

@polybear I see Tony has answered your question, but this may be of interest.  i have a similar problem to you with regard to springs on the B1 I'm building.  Instead of my usual long springy n/s wire (much like Sir) I have used little coils of phosphor-bronze wire which sit outside the springs.  

 

 

Another option if you prefer long and springy would be to put the copperclad pads on the opposite side and have the wire running transversely to bear on the wheel edge.

 

 

Many thanks - that's an ingenious solution.

[JamesSpooner]

Going back to Tony’s challenge of whether we can replicate a real life image on our models, I thought I would have an attempt.  I suspect it is a case of “close but no cigar” but here are two photos I took with my phone earlier today, compared to two taken at Lavenham by Dr Ian Allen (so please respect copyright). I tried three but ran out of file space on the post!
 

Nigel

 

 

[Chuffer Davies]

On the topic of pickups and how to avoid them shorting against spring and brake detail, I have mentioned this alternate technique previously but I think it’s worth reminding people again.  I find this approach both straight forward and reliable, and the pickups come nowhere near any spring or brake detail.  It was Mike Sharman who introduced me to this technique, he called them ‘back scratchers’.  
The pickups are made from thin phosphor bronze strip approx 0.8 mm wide. They are mounted on thin (0.5mm) double sided copper clad pads soldered along the top inside edge of the frame. The PB strip is soldered to the pad and then curved over the top of the frame and down behind the wheel’s flange.  Once painted they blend in, and are hidden by the footplate’s valance and the wheel.  Occasionally they need a small notch filing into the top of the frame for clearance to prevent the top of the pickup interfering with the underside of the footplate, but this unusual.

As someone who has a particular aversion to pickups, these are the only type I have found to be tolerable to install.

Frank

[Jesse Sim]

5 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

 

 

 

That's a nice spot, what part of the line is that?

[Flying Fox 34F]

Jesse,

 

The location is Tuxford looking north towards Retford.

 

Paul

[dibateg]

Repairs to 60113 Great Northern. The primary drive gear in the box had stripped and the replacement box  had a similar problem where the worm took the top off the teeth. There was afr to much backlash in the gear mesh, so I used a washer to space the bottom of the motor out and bring the worm closer in to the gear. Engagement is much better, and the mechanism work ok - time will tell!

I fitted replacement Cartazzi axleboxes, the originals being well out of gauge.

 

Motor bodge! As Tony and I discussed offline, GB1 failures are unusual. The motor appears central in it's mounting plate, but it must be something to do with the motor as that is the common factor...

 

Ready to re-assemble.

 

Back together and ready for a paint touch up.

 

Thanks to Tony W in his assistance withthis repair, it's a long time since I've worked on 4mm mechanisms!

 

Regards

Tony

[Tony Wright]

6 hours ago, Jesse Sim said:

That's a nice spot, what part of the line is that?

Good morning Jesse,

 

As Flying Fox has stated, it's Tuxford, between Retford and Newark, the erstwhile engineering headquarters of the LD&ECR, whose line crossed the ECML at right angles slightly further south of the bridge the picture is taken from. South of this bridge (which still exists because of its height; lower GNR three-arch overbridges were demolished with electrification) there were extensive sidings and Dukeries Junction - hence the splitting signal; all no more. 

 

In the distance is the GN station, signal box and level crossing (all obliterated some years ago, the crossing being replaced by an overbridge).

 

The following pictures show some of Tuxford's environs (all, apart from my shot of the 'box, subject to copyright restrictions). 

 

 

This is how I first remember the place, well over 60 years ago now. The shot was taken from the same bridge, but looking south, revealing the junction, sidings and the LD&ECR bridge in the background. The line which contravened the Trades Description Act (it never got near Lancashire or the East Coast) was taken over by the GC, and there was a station on the bridge - long gone in this shot.

 

 

That's the wonderful 'vantage point' bridge, though the junction and sidings have all gone in this early-'70s view.

 

And, some more from that same period............

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

These were from the period when I was taking pictures here (mine have been published in my softbacks by Irwell).

 

I also took some shots of the surviving (only just) infrastructure.............

 

 

Including Tuxford GN 'box; switched out, abandoned but not yet attacked by the local brain-dead!

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

[Tony Wright]

26 minutes ago, dibateg said:

Repairs to 60113 Great Northern. The primary drive gear in the box had stripped and the replacement box  had a similar problem where the worm took the top off the teeth. There was afr to much backlash in the gear mesh, so I used a washer to space the bottom of the motor out and bring the worm closer in to the gear. Engagement is much better, and the mechanism work ok - time will tell!

I fitted replacement Cartazzi axleboxes, the originals being well out of gauge.

 

Motor bodge! As Tony and I discussed offline, GB1 failures are unusual. The motor appears central in it's mounting plate, but it must be something to do with the motor as that is the common factor...

 

Ready to re-assemble.

 

Back together and ready for a paint touch up.

 

Thanks to Tony W in his assistance withthis repair, it's a long time since I've worked on 4mm mechanisms!

 

Regards

Tony

Thanks for that Tony,

 

I'm glad all is well now. 

 

I've never had a DJH motor/gearbox combination fail (other than a Mashima failure, though that had nothing to do with the DJH 'box). 

 

Do you remember when I built GREAT NORTHERN from a Crownline kit?

 

 

Yes, it's getting on for 30 years ago! 

 

The same issue reports further on the building of Stoke Summit. 

 

 

 

I used a DJH 'box, but with an open-framed motor.

 

 

I wasn't a fan of the resin boiler.

 

However, with Ian Rathbone's painting...............

 

 

I think she turned out fine, and she still does as these shots of her still flying round Little Bytham show............

 

 

 

 

I think the only alteration I subsequently made was to replace the bogie wheels with something nearer scale.

 

I'm delighted you've got Dave's 60113 going again, and I'm glad to help. 

 

If you like, I'll buy that Slater's 'box off you again if you wish! 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

By the way, the MORILL article made nine pages, with only 15 pictures. It goes back to the time (pre-digital) of text-heavy articles and fewer pictures. Nine pages, mainly of text, today for an article? Hardly; probably a third of the pages with twice as many pictures. How times change.............

 

 

[John Isherwood]

2 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

By the way, the MORILL article made nine pages, with only 15 pictures. It goes back to the time (pre-digital) of text-heavy articles and fewer pictures. Nine pages, mainly of text, today for an article? Hardly; probably a third of the pages with twice as many pictures. How times change.............

 

........ and the trouble with pictures is that they don't tell you why or how something was done - merely that it was done.

 

No wonder modellers seem disinclined to attempt more complex work - they need to know how and why, so that they can apply that knowledge in future.

 

CJI.

[James Fitzjames]

11 hours ago, Chuffer Davies said:

On the topic of pickups and how to avoid them shorting against spring and brake detail, I have mentioned this alternate technique previously but I think it’s worth reminding people again.  I find this approach both straight forward and reliable, and the pickups come nowhere near any spring or brake detail.  It was Mike Sharman who introduced me to this technique, he called them ‘back scratchers’.  
The pickups are made from thin phosphor bronze strip approx 0.8 mm wide. They are mounted on thin (0.5mm) double sided copper clad pads soldered along the top inside edge of the frame. The PB strip is soldered to the pad and then curved over the top of the frame and down behind the wheel’s flange.  Once painted they blend in, and are hidden by the footplate’s valance and the wheel.  Occasionally they need a small notch filing into the top of the frame for clearance to prevent the top of the pickup interfering with the underside of the footplate, but this unusual.

As someone who has a particular aversion to pickups, these are the only type I have found to be tolerable to install.

Frank

I've tried this method and can attest it works pretty well. The only downsides I can see are that the strips are less accessible for adjustment/cleaning than the springy wire method.

[MJI]

I am trying to do photo builds on the forum.

 

Including a build using resin printed wagons.

[Chuffer Davies]

1 hour ago, James Fitzjames said:

I've tried this method and can attest it works pretty well. The only downsides I can see are that the strips are less accessible for adjustment/cleaning than the springy wire method.

With the few that I have my experience is that once set up they don’t need subsequent adjustment as they are hard to damage given their location and they are not prone to overheating because they have a relatively large contact surface.  
I’ve never found the need to clean them either. 

Frank

[Tony Wright]

19 hours ago, Ollie K said:

I believe FS carried an A4 boiler from 1978 to 2005 (250psi from 1999) when it was acquired by the NRM. Was the visual giveaway not the offset washout plugs, rather than parallel ones? 
 

Regarding the topic of rampant vegetation foiling attempts to photograph today’s railway, as someone who regularly pops over to Stoke Bank to see a railtour pass, I can also vouch it’s getting trickier every year! That said, there are still a couple of precious spots where it’s possible to find a decent vantage point without being on an overbridge.

 

Here’s ‘Blue Peter’ going well up the bank just beyond Bytham last week. Hardly a T.G. Hepburn / Colin Walker-worthy shot, but the relatively neat embankments and surviving GNR bridge make for a pleasing setting.

 

Cheers,

Ollie

Great shot Ollie,

 

I was ignorant of BLUE PETER's passing by, though I'm with you on your choice of location.

 

In the last few years, I've found some decent locations for photography around Little Bytham (mainly taking pictures of TORNADO), though some of the following views are not possible now...........

 

 

This was taken from the track beside the school.

 

 

And this one shows that beautiful bridge you mention. 

 

I was not trespassing, just leaning over the low fence - a shot impossible today because of the palisade fencing now erected here.

 

 

And, from slightly higher up. Doesn't she look better in this livery?

 

 

Taken from the opposite side from your video.

 

 

 

One really good spot was the top of the abutment which used to support the eastern end of the MR/M&GNR girder bridge (two local chums enjoying the spectacle). Such a view is now impossible because of fencing and even more tree growth. 

 

 

A little further north than your video (again, I'm leaning over the fence). I have no idea if this view is possible today.

 

One view which is impossible to get today is this.................

 

 

Shot of the station site taken in 1962 (seen recently).

 

I did try to get a similar view 50 years later...............

 

 

Without success!.

 

It's even more overgrown after a further decade. 

 

The station site did give photo opportunities.................

 

 

 

If one were standing on Marsh Bridge, though vegetation to the left and right is now so dense that a 'side view' is really restricted. 

 

And, the HSTs on this route are no more!

 

 

Which is a pity, especially in this livery.

 

When Ian Wilson lived in Careby..............

 

 

 

 

 

From his back garden, one could get shots like this (though I'm told fencing now blocks any view now). 

 

 

And shots like this.

 

I just stood just below where an original fence had been. 

 

A shot at Bytham impossible now is this............

 

 

Because new houses now occupy the remains of the goods yard.

 

 

Not all shots have been taken in warm, sunny weather (taken from by the bridge at Creeton). 

 

It was sometimes dull and damp...............

 

 

 

Such as on these two occasions at Swayfield. 

 

I admit to taking my camera out very little these days. As intimated, in the 20 years we've lived in this part of the world, lineside photography has become more and more difficult (unrestricted tree growth must have consequences eventually). Nonetheless, I wouldn't live anywhere else.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Tony Wright]

15 hours ago, JamesSpooner said:

Going back to Tony’s challenge of whether we can replicate a real life image on our models, I thought I would have an attempt.  I suspect it is a case of “close but no cigar” but here are two photos I took with my phone earlier today, compared to two taken at Lavenham by Dr Ian Allen (so please respect copyright). I tried three but ran out of file space on the post!
 

Nigel

 

 

 

Good afternoon Nigel,

 

A couple of fine examples; thanks for posting.

 

Have I issued a 'challenge'? If so, I wonder how many will take it up? 

 

Some examples of prototype/model comparative shots of Little Bytham..................

 

Some of these are from the layout's early development; I must take some more, now that the layout's complete................

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

As usual, physics prevent 'identical' shots, but it shows what's possible.

 

Where structures still exist............

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

'Now and now' shots are possible.................

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

Edited July 22 by Tony Wright
to add something

[Tony Wright]

Some might recall a fortnight ago, I posted shots of this SEF K3...........

 

 

 

Brought along by good friend, Geoff West, it didn't run particularly well (it does now!).

 

One thing I couldn't put my finger on was the fact that there was something wrong with loco's 'face'; its smokebox door. 

 

Now, I always personify the steam-outline locos I build by liking the smokebox door to a 'face'; then, I got it - the smokebox numberplate was attached to the top hingestrap (nothing ever seen on a prototype K3).

 

So, less than five minutes' work...................

 

 

 

Prise it off (the glue holding it wasn't very strong) and re-fit - instantly, a proper K3's 'face'. 

 

I have no idea who built/painted this model (it was an Ebay purchase by Geoff), but I conclude that prototype photos were not consulted.

 

Anyway, it looks 'right' right now and runs really well! 

 

 

[Captain Kernow]

Such a shame about the profusion of vegetation on the lineside these days.

 

Unfortunately it's not a new phenomenon.

 

When I worked for Network Rail, before retirement a few years ago, it was bad then and vegetation cutting (or 'vegetation management' as they used to like to call it) was always an easy target if my elder and better sharp suit-wearing bosses decided to make budget cuts.

 

The situation down here in the South West is effectively just as bad as it ever was, despite NR evidently having been given some more vegetation cutting monies a few years ago, when they 'blitzed' certain areas.

 

In virtually every station area now, between the platforms, weeds and other plants seem to be allowed to bloom away in a fashion which would delight Alan Titchmarsh.

 

I put much of this down to the decision to abandon proper weedkillers several years ago in favour of Liquid Growmore...

 

[Not Jeremy]

9 minutes ago, Captain Kernow said:

Such a shame about the profusion of vegetation on the lineside these days.

 

Unfortunately it's not a new phenomenon.

 

When I worked for Network Rail, before retirement a few years ago, it was bad then and vegetation cutting (or 'vegetation management' as they used to like to call it) was always an easy target if my elder and better sharp suit-wearing bosses decided to make budget cuts.

 

The situation down here in the South West is effectively just as bad as it ever was, despite NR evidently having been given some more vegetation cutting monies a few years ago, when they 'blitzed' certain areas.

 

In virtually every station area now, between the platforms, weeds and other plants seem to be allowed to bloom away in a fashion which would delight Alan Titchmarsh.

 

I put much of this down to the decision to abandon proper weedkillers several years ago in favour of Liquid Growmore...

 

Same in Bath, the Georgian city of weeds!

 

Still, looking on the bright side, if the council leave it long enough the verdant greenery might hide all the wretched bollards they are putting up!

 

 

Edited July 22 by Not Jeremy