Wright writes.....

[Tony Wright]

1 hour ago, davidw said:

Lamps and the length of the loco tender draw bar really let it down.

Good morning David,

 

Both noted yesterday...............

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Jol Wilkinson]

23 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Good morning Willie,

 

So many threads relating to new models seem negative these days. Though I look occasionally (I've just responded on the relevant thread), I prefer to come to my own conclusions. 

 

I wonder why so many 'commentators' and video makers (influencers?) are so hostile?

 

The latest Hornby Black Five comes in at over £200.00 (analogue). Were I to make an equivalent DJH/Alan Gibson kit for one on commission, and ask Ian Rathbone or Geoff Haynes to paint it to Hornby's standard of finish, it would cost in excess of five times as much!

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

"I wonder why so many 'commentators' and video makers (influencers?) are so hostile?"

 

Inadequacy? They can Talk the Talk but perhaps cannot Walk the Walk, so enjoy criticising what others do.

 

It also seems to be the case that it happens more so where the company/person being criticised may not be aware of it. Those manufacturers who maintain a presence on RMweb, such as Accurascale and Rapido, seem to get a much more positive response and constructive, rather than destructive, comments.

 

 

[Dragonboy]

15 hours ago, Jeepy said:

I've got a car like that! Lol! 

 

Cheers, 

 

Jim.

I used to have a wife like that, bless her. Very pleased when she moved on. More wardrobe space and more room for railways. 

[zr2498]

22 minutes ago, Jol Wilkinson said:

"I wonder why so many 'commentators' and video makers (influencers?) are so hostile?"

 

Inadequacy? They can Talk the Talk but perhaps cannot Walk the Walk, so enjoy criticising what others do.

 

It also seems to be the case that it happens more so where the company/person being criticised may not be aware of it. Those manufacturers who maintain a presence on RMweb, such as Accurascale and Rapido, seem to get a much more positive response and constructive, rather than destructive, comments.

 

 

I would say that most of those commenting within the New Hornby Black 5 RMweb thread are making constructive criticism. The appearance and detailing have been very much applauded. It is just the lamps (size and repositioning), and the non adjustable draw bar that have moved the model away from the 'ultimate' black 5.

I have also written to Hornby marketing with suggestions, but have not had a response.

Perhaps it is the lack of response and apparent acceptance of feedback, that does Hornby's reputation the most harm.

 

 

[Captain Kernow]

27 minutes ago, zr2498 said:

It is just the lamps (size and repositioning), and the non adjustable draw bar that have moved the model away from the 'ultimate' black 5.

So not much, really and certainly things that a little time spent 'modelling' can rectify...

 

[Tony Teague]

1 minute ago, Captain Kernow said:

So not much, really and certainly things that a little time spent 'modelling' can rectify...

 

 

I also wonder whether any of thse making the negative commenst were ever likely to make a purchase, no matter how good the model might be - so perhaps the comments are self-justification for their own decisions? (plus their unwillingness or lack of skills to put these small things right).

[Willie Whizz]

Just to clarify, my intention was to draw Tony’s attention to the Hornby thread and the views being expressed; not to support them or comment. The ‘lamps’ issue is particularly interesting, but a Black 5 would only be of marginal interest to me and I haven’t seen the new model. 

[zr2498]

28 minutes ago, Tony Teague said:

 

I also wonder whether any of thse making the negative commenst were ever likely to make a purchase, no matter how good the model might be - so perhaps the comments are self-justification for their own decisions? (plus their unwillingness or lack of skills to put these small things right).

I for one have purchased the Caprotti model, and will be repositioning / modifying the lamps if possible. As for the draw bar, that is likely to be a mini project as I believe there are 8 connections in the coupling to accomodate all of the new gizmos. If I revert to non illuminated lamps, and as I'm not bothered about the steam generator then back to 4 wires and a JST plug will do the job.

Whatever I do, I will share it with other modellers on this forum. That is one of the RMweb benefits.

 

Edited June 5 by zr2498
Extra comment

[Methuselah]

     Some interesting comments here on those who review locos - and I'm thinking here particularly of YouTube. There is a definite paucity of credible review. Most notable is the lack - or even complete absence of any evidence of any engineering knowledge or modelling skills to lend credibility to the opinions offered. Those whose 'layouts' look like they have been put together by a seven year old - or are running on rickety track laid on mummy and daddy's carpet are hardly likely to accurately inform one of the (increasingly expensive.) products value and features - good bad or other wise - and that's always presuming they can string an intelligible sentence together.

     I'd say there is definitely an opening for more channels on YT offering credible reviews.

Edited June 5 by Methuselah

[The Pilotman]

49 minutes ago, Methuselah said:

I'd say there is definitely an opening for more channels on YT offering credible revues.

Revues are nice, but a review would be more useful 😉

[St Enodoc]

2 hours ago, Captain Kernow said:

So not much, really and certainly things that a little time spent 'modelling' can rectify...

 

The issue of lamps (generally, not just on this Black 5) is starting to irritate me more than I should let it. The fad for "working" lamps on steam locos is resulting in lamps that are way too big; usually, when lit, way too bright; and often, in place and lit when they shouldn't be. Personally, I can't reconcile that with the superb effort that has gone into the underlying model itself (and the resulting price). The present King's comment, almost exactly 40 years ago as it happens, about "a monstrous carbuncle on the face of a much-loved and elegant friend" comes to mind.

 

2 hours ago, Tony Teague said:

 

I also wonder whether any of thse making the negative commenst were ever likely to make a purchase, no matter how good the model might be - so perhaps the comments are self-justification for their own decisions? (plus their unwillingness or lack of skills to put these small things right).

Why should you have to put such an awful-looking lamp right after spending GBP 200 on the model in the first place? Actually, is it a model, or a toy, or both, or neither?

Edited June 5 by St Enodoc

[Tony Teague]

6 minutes ago, St Enodoc said:

 

Why should you have to put such an awful-looking lamp right after spending GBP 200 on the model in the first place? Actually, is it a model, or a toy, or both, or neither?

 

Don't disagree at all; in many ways it is odd that those producing a 'best ever' model should have failed to see this as any kind of compromise.

[Steamport Southport]

1 minute ago, St Enodoc said:

The issue of lamps (generally, not just on this Black 5) is starting to irritate me more than I should let it. The fad for "working" lamps on steam locos is resulting in lamps that are way too big; usually, when lit, way too bright; and often, in place and lit when they shouldn't be. Personally, I can't reconcile that with the superb effort that has gone into the underlying model itself (and the resulting price). The present King's comment, years ago, about "a monstrous carbuncle on the face of a much-loved and elegant friend" comes to mind.

 

Why should you have to put such an awful-looking lamp right after spending GBP 200 on the model in the first place? Actually, is it a model, or a toy, or both, or neither?

 

I thought the lamps detached though?

 

 

As for reviews look at proper ones by people who actually know a little about what they are talking about. I quite like ones like this as the emphasis is on the running. I can make my own mind up about the other details just by looking at photos.

 

 

 

However, is £200 such a large amount for a large locomotive model in 2024? Small tank engines are now about £150.

 

Seems some want high end models at Railroad range prices.

 

 

£220 plus £65 for the tender. Plus wheels, motor, gearbox, etc. And the skills to build it. The DJH version will come in about the same price.

 

https://www.brassmasters.co.uk/black_5.htm

 

 

 

Jason

[Ian Hargrave]

Yes the lamps detach with effort. But you’re left with a glaring light bleed in the two places left vacant. The “adhesive “ they are fixed with is to ensure secure passage in transit from China.Thus was I informed by a Hornby representative at the NEC in April.

I removed both of the clunky objects as they don’t suit my taste.Now to find the best way of masking the left over glare Pass the Black Tack.

[MikeParkin65]

2 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

 

 

 

 

However, is £200 such a large amount for a large locomotive model in 2024? Small tank engines are now about £150.

 

Seems some want high end models at Railroad range prices.

 

 

£220 plus £65 for the tender. Plus wheels, motor, gearbox, etc. And the skills to build it. The DJH version will come in about the same price.

 

 

 

 

 

Jason

Or just spend £25 on the Brassmasters detailing kit for the 2002 Hornby model and end up with pretty much the same. 

Edited June 5 by MikeParkin65

[Clive Mortimore]

Weren't lamps only to be lit at night, during fog and falling snow? Railways didn't like spending too much on burning paraffin when the illumination could not be seen as it weren't that bright. 

Edited June 5 by Clive Mortimore

[Steamport Southport]

20 minutes ago, MikeParkin65 said:

Or just spend £25 on the Brassmasters detailing kit for the 2002 Hornby model and end up with pretty much the same. 

 

Well I only have one of those. Might as well just get new ones and sort any issues myself. I'm just bog standard DC so any lights can just be snipped. Not really a fan of lights anyway.

 

 

I'm waiting for some "Hobby Rewards" to go into my account and I'll pick up the Caprotti version over the next few day. I'll also get 3450 more "Hobby Rewards" for ordering it as a member of the Collectors Club to spend on something else. Maybe another Black Five!

 

Any others can be picked up if they hit the bargain bins as it seems some don't want them.

 

 

Black Fives I've got.

 

One 1970s Hornby that hasn't been used for years, one 2000s Hornby, two K's (only one built) and an unbuilt Jamieson kit. So I am a bit lacking on the Black Five front.

 

 

 

Jason

[Compound2632]

35 minutes ago, Clive Mortimore said:

Weren't lamps only to be lit at night, during fog and falling snow? 

 

I've seen night scenes and snow scenes modelled, in some cases quite effectively. Fog would be easy enough to do, with a series of gauze veils parallel to the viewing side of the layout. But modelling falling snow sounds like a challenge - perhaps the operators would be required not to wash their hair for a month before the exhibition?

Edited June 5 by Compound2632

[Bernard Lamb]

5 hours ago, Captain Kernow said:

So not much, really and certainly things that a little time spent 'modelling' can rectify...

 

I have not seen one in the flesh so to speak.

However if you get one that has the badly formed connector, which several people seem to have come across, then it does become a rather more difficult point to rectify. From photographic evidence I cannot see how it is possible to shorten the gap and maintain electrical contact. Shoft of total replacement of the connector, which might well be the best solution. Why they did not fit a cam device I know not.

The original type of connector, where you grind the pin off, lever up the plate with the tongues. move the plate backwards by 2.5mm, araldite it in place and add an 8BA bolt, was simplicity personified.

Bernard

[Peter Kazmierczak]

3 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

As for reviews look at proper ones by people who actually know a little about what they are talking about. I quite like ones like this as the emphasis is on the running. I can make my own mind up about the other details just by looking at photos.

 

 

 

 

An interesting review, but did they have to get a replacement model due to problems with their first example? Have a listen between 3:05 and 3:35. This was all rather glossed over...

 

Someone mentioned reviews becoming more "hostile". Maybe so, but with folk's rising expectations, plus the rising cost of the models and the need to have an "edge" or an "angle" in so much stuff on YouTube, this is to be expected.

 

Though as long as reviews are honest; that's what I look out for.

[Ian Hargrave]

5 hours ago, Captain Kernow said:

So not much, really and certainly things that a little time spent 'modelling' can rectify...

 

That draw bar seems to have assumed the role of Achilles Heel on certain recently released examples,causing the model to fail.

 It comes already attached in the clamshell and mine proceeded straight onto the track,using a Hornby railing tool.It has remained thus since its arrival on Saturday and I have no intention of separating the two constituent parts,adopting the time honoured principle of letting sleeping dogs lie. So I’m afraid any possible shortening of the bar at least for fingers and eyesight such as mine is out of the question. Good luck with a joust at circuit wizardry and a following wind with that. 

[Captain Kernow]

30 minutes ago, Ian Hargrave said:

That draw bar seems to have assumed the role of Achilles Heel on certain recently released examples,causing the model to fail.

 It comes already attached in the clamshell and mine proceeded straight onto the track,using a Hornby railing tool.It has remained thus since its arrival on Saturday and I have no intention of separating the two constituent parts,adopting the time honoured principle of letting sleeping dogs lie. So I’m afraid any possible shortening of the bar at least for fingers and eyesight such as mine is out of the question. Good luck with a joust at circuit wizardry and a following wind with that. 

Hi Ian - I was interested in what people found so objectionable on this new release, but am unlikely to purchase such a relatively large loco for my rather small layouts!

 

[Ian Hargrave]

29 minutes ago, Captain Kernow said:

Hi Ian - I was interested in what people found so objectionable on this new release, but am unlikely to purchase such a relatively large loco for my rather small layouts!

 

It’s at heart a good model .It’s well finished and runs exceptionally well. Had Hornby stuck to the tried and tested i.e. the plug and adjustable drawbar and not introduced the light show there would be loud acclaim. They literally snatched defeat from the jaws of victory. That said,despite the above eccentricities,I am smitten.

 

    If only……

[2750Papyrus]

On 04/06/2024 at 17:04, 2750Papyrus said:

 I can't remember the name of the theory that inanimate objects conspire against us, but.....

Resistentialism

 

(per Paul Jennings).

[gwrrob]

36 minutes ago, Ian Hargrave said:

,I am smitten.

 

 

Oh come on Mr H @Ian Hargrave it's not a Castle now is it.🙄