Wright writes.....

[John Isherwood]

56 minutes ago, Captain Kernow said:

I really couldn't agree more, Tony!

 

One of the things that I find beneficial when making a chassis in OO, is the option to use Romford or Markits wheels, with their self-quartering attributes.

 

I have made P4 chassis with 'push-on' wheels by Ultrascale and Gibson, but somehow the added task of ensuring that the wheels are correctly quartered forms an additional 'hurdle to overcome' in my mind. I do use a GW wheel press, but I have also got wheels to quarter 'by eye', but I find the whole business a bit fraught and always find myself wishing that you could get Markits wheels in P4 as well...

 

I had built my fair share of OO locos before I started doing P4 and they all had Romford or Markits wheels. Their ability to self-quarter was indeed a great comfort.

 

So, when I started my most recent OO loco (a W.R. 16XX pannier with an old Cotswold body and the new etched chassis) in 2020, I once again bought a set of the appropriate Markits drivers.

 

As I normally do with OO locos these days, I built the chassis with single-beam compensation, which I find is a real help to current collection. The chassis kit (designed for NuCast Partners) by Justin Newitt went together well and is a joy to build.

 

But I just couldn't get the loco to run smoothly. Try as I might, there was a persistent tight spot, which defied all the usual methods to induce smoother running.

 

I was getting very frustrated and in the end, put the chassis to one side and started again, using the second chassis kit that I'd bought (originally for a P4 version). This time, just to rule out any possible problem with the compensation that might have been affecting the running, I built the chassis rigid.

 

But still the same tight spot persisted. By now, I was tearing my hair out and inventing new forms of bad language...

 

Eventually, I had an unexpected light bulb moment... - what if the problem was that the Markits driving wheels were not quartered properly? But that can't happen, right? Surely, they're designed to ensure that the wheels are quartered correctly, aren't they?....

 

Each axle was taken out, dismantled and reassembled and thoroughly checked. On one of the axles, I thought I spotted the two wheels out-of-quarter. An impossibility, I thought.

 

Nevertheless, I took a file to the steel corners of the axle end and rounded all four, just slightly. I then re-mounted the wheel and put the axle nut on to a 'loose tightness'. I was then able to gently twist the errant wheel until it appeared - by eye - to be correctly quartered and tightened the axle nut up fully.

 

When fully assembled again, the chassis ran as sweet as a nut! The problem had been that one set of Markits drivers all along.

 

I replaced the compromised wheelset with all new wheels and axle, which quartered correctly first time.

 

I certainly haven't built as many kits as you, Tony, or as many as some other contributors to this thread, no doubt, but in all the dozens that I have built over the years, this was the first time I've ever encountered a problem like this.

 

I wonder if anyone else has had this experience?

 

 

Edit - it wasn't a major tight spot, only noticeable at slow, shunting speeds (which on a small layout is all important, though...).

 

 

 

It was probably just the axle; one squared end out of sync with the other. That could be detectable by holding a pair of straight edges against the axle flats.

 

CJI.

 

 

[lezz01]

Have you tried using a mirror. To quarter driving wheels I mean.

I use my back to back gauge myself although I have a jig to mark the axle ends as well and one of uncle Billy's quartering jigs. I've thought about getting a GW one but I've never had any problems myself so I've not bothered.

Regards Lez.

[Tony Wright]

2 hours ago, Captain Kernow said:

I really couldn't agree more, Tony!

 

One of the things that I find beneficial when making a chassis in OO, is the option to use Romford or Markits wheels, with their self-quartering attributes.

 

I have made P4 chassis with 'push-on' wheels by Ultrascale and Gibson, but somehow the added task of ensuring that the wheels are correctly quartered forms an additional 'hurdle to overcome' in my mind. I do use a GW wheel press, but I have also got wheels to quarter 'by eye', but I find the whole business a bit fraught and always find myself wishing that you could get Markits wheels in P4 as well...

 

I had built my fair share of OO locos before I started doing P4 and they all had Romford or Markits wheels. Their ability to self-quarter was indeed a great comfort.

 

So, when I started my most recent OO loco (a W.R. 16XX pannier with an old Cotswold body and the new etched chassis) in 2020, I once again bought a set of the appropriate Markits drivers.

 

As I normally do with OO locos these days, I built the chassis with single-beam compensation, which I find is a real help to current collection. The chassis kit (designed for NuCast Partners) by Justin Newitt went together well and is a joy to build.

 

But I just couldn't get the loco to run smoothly. Try as I might, there was a persistent tight spot, which defied all the usual methods to induce smoother running.

 

I was getting very frustrated and in the end, put the chassis to one side and started again, using the second chassis kit that I'd bought (originally for a P4 version). This time, just to rule out any possible problem with the compensation that might have been affecting the running, I built the chassis rigid.

 

But still the same tight spot persisted. By now, I was tearing my hair out and inventing new forms of bad language...

 

Eventually, I had an unexpected light bulb moment... - what if the problem was that the Markits driving wheels were not quartered properly? But that can't happen, right? Surely, they're designed to ensure that the wheels are quartered correctly, aren't they?....

 

Each axle was taken out, dismantled and reassembled and thoroughly checked. On one of the axles, I thought I spotted the two wheels out-of-quarter. An impossibility, I thought.

 

Nevertheless, I took a file to the steel corners of the axle end and rounded all four, just slightly. I then re-mounted the wheel and put the axle nut on to a 'loose tightness'. I was then able to gently twist the errant wheel until it appeared - by eye - to be correctly quartered and tightened the axle nut up fully.

 

When fully assembled again, the chassis ran as sweet as a nut! The problem had been that one set of Markits drivers all along.

 

I replaced the compromised wheelset with all new wheels and axle, which quartered correctly first time.

 

I certainly haven't built as many kits as you, Tony, or as many as some other contributors to this thread, no doubt, but in all the dozens that I have built over the years, this was the first time I've ever encountered a problem like this.

 

I wonder if anyone else has had this experience?

 

 

Edit - it wasn't a major tight spot, only noticeable at slow, shunting speeds (which on a small layout is all important, though...).

 

 

Good evening Captain,

 

I'm glad you sorted out your problems with Markits drivers. 

 

In all the hundreds of locos I've built, I've never come across an 'out-of-square' Romford/Markits axle; I assume then, it must be rare, but you're not alone. 

 

In the past, I've had one or two less-than-true-round, older Romford drivers, but I just turned these true in the lathe (in the days when I had access to one in my school workshop; that I miss, but not what came with it!).

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[thegreenhowards]

6 hours ago, Dylan Sanderson said:

Afternoon everyone,

 

I'm still on the hunt for some Markits 6'2" 18 Spoke LNER Driving wheels, I can't seem to find them anywhere! Got to a point with my NER G class where I can't continue without them!

 

If anyone has any sat in a draw and you don't need them anymore, please direct message me so we can discuss a price. I only need 4, gauge not important 😀

 

many thanks,

 

Dylan

I’ve got some 24mm, 18 spoke Romfords - all insulated. Is that what you’re looking for?

 

[Tony Wright]

This evening, Geoff Haynes brought round some models of mine he's weathered.....

 

Including........

 

 

The Little Engines J11 seen of late. 

 

 

It's now in service on the layout, complete with crew and tools.

 

 

Very natural I think.

 

He's also weathered the............

 

 

Little Engines O4/7 - beautifully-natural. 

 

Both locos were weathered based on images from one of Keith Pirt's colour volumes.

 

It, too............

 

 

 

Is now in service on LB.

 

He's also weathered.............

 

 

The somewhat 'dubious' 3D-printed ex-GC Restaurant Car.

 

Thanks to a friend, I now have some evidence for what should be on the roof.

 

Thanks, Geoff, for making such a great job of weathering what I recently built and painted. 

 

 

[lezz01]

So how I mark the ends of the axles for a fool proof method of quartering push on wheels.

I made a jig on my "super jig" using off cuts of crossing timbers. Pack up the end piece so that you can draw a line across the centre of an axle. 

draw the line with a fine marker like this.

Then turn the axle around the other way and using a small engineers square make sure the line is vertical then draw another line at the opposite end.

and you have a line each end of the axle at 90degs to each other now you just line up the crankpins with the line at each end and bingo quartered wheels with no fuss. I've started using an "engineers blue" maker and a scriber now as sometimes a marker doesn't take to the steel and it's harder to rub off the blue than it is black marker pen. It works a treat for 1/8th axles not so well for AG Bachmann conversion sets as the line isn't in the right place as the axles are 2.5mm not 1/8th.

Regards Lez.

[Captain Kernow]

11 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Good evening Captain,

 

I'm glad you sorted out your problems with Markits drivers. 

 

In all the hundreds of locos I've built, I've never come across an 'out-of-square' Romford/Markits axle; I assume then, it must be rare, but you're not alone. 

 

In the past, I've had one or two less-than-true-round, older Romford drivers, but I just turned these true in the lathe (in the days when I had access to one in my school workshop; that I miss, but not what came with it!).

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Thanks to everyone for their comments. The wheels and axle concerned were recent production Markits ones.

 

Regarding lathe turning, in the past, I've had older Romfords turned to a more acceptable flange size by a friend who had a lathe. The finer flange size of Markits these days renders this no longer necessary, but when I eventually get my lathe set up, it would still be useful to check for concentricity using the lathe, with all types of wheel.

 

And I'm very much impressed by your method of quartering Gibson etc. type wheels, Lez!

 

[30368]

12 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Little Engines O4/7 - beautifully-natural. 

 

Yes, agree Tony looks really good and a slightly elusive prototype? Were many 04's converted to 04/7? Don't think I saw many. Do I detect a slight downturn on 63634's buffer beam? Perhaps its just the footplate return just beyond the cylinders that is missleading me....

 

 

Anyway it is a fine model and I really like the way you have modelled all(?) the 04 variations long may they thrive on LB.

 

Kind regards,

 

30368

Edited February 5 by 30368

[Chuffer Davies]

With regards the quartering of friction fit plastic driving wheels I personally have a fairly simplistic approach which has never caused me any concerns.  It has previously been documented on WW that the wheels on opposite sides of a chassis do not need to be at exactly 90 degrees offset.  It has been confirmed that the prototype 120 degree offset associated with 3 cylinder locomotives can be successfully made to work in model form.  The 90 degree offset is therefore a cosmetic rather than mechanical constraint, and wIth that in mind:

 

It must be said that it is critical that the axle hole spacings exactly match those of the coupling rods.  Get this wrong and you are pretty well doomed to fail.  When building models with rigid chassis it is hoped that the alignment will have been guaranteed by the manufacturing process.  If building compensated or sprung chassis which utilise horn blocks and guides it is essential that every effort is taken to ensure that these are spaced accurately and that the guides are vertical.  Some sort of jig will be critical to achieving this.  Personally I have the Avonside jig that was available from Eileen's Emporium but pretty much any jig will do, although some are easier to use than others. 

 

Once the axle bearings are all installed, the first stage is to fit all the driving wheels at roughly 90 degree offset (by eye).  As a rule the right hand side crank pins lead the left hand by 90 degrees but this is not an absolute rule for all prototype locomotives, but I always apply that rule on my models (Rule 1).  As a rough guide if the wheels have an even number of spokes then the spokes on opposite wheels should be in alignment, whereas for wheels with an odd number the spokes should be midway between their opposites. 

 

I next fit the coupling rod to all the wheels on one side only of the loco, it doesn't matter which side is chosen.  The wheels are then rotated so that all the crank pins are at approximately either top or bottom dead centre.  I now turn the chassis round and check the alignment of all the crankpins on the side without a coupling rod and make any adjustments (again by eye) until all wheels appear exactly aligned.

 

I now fit the other coupling rod and check for any tight spots when turning the wheels by hand.  Nine times out of ten the wheels will turn without tight spots.  If there is a tight spot then before doing anything else I recheck that all the crankpins along one side still look to be in alignment making any adjustments as I go.  If there remains a tight spot then if the loco has more than two axles, then it is normally possible check the rotation of the chassis two axles at a time.  If the coupling rod is rigid throughout then you will need to remove one or more axles from the chassis leaving the driven axle and one other.  Check if the tight spot still remains, try adjusting the quartering of the non driven axle to see if this cures it, but if there remains a tight spot then set the quartering to minimise the tightness and then attempt to see which crankpin holes needs opening out to cure the problem.  I never adjust crank pin holes with a broach, I always elongate the crankpin holes (on the non driven axle) with a rat tailed needle file, one way or the other depending upon which side of the crankpin hole the crankpin is pressed up against.  This takes some very careful investigation to make sure the hole is elongated in the correct direction.  Once the tight spot has been eliminated on a pair of wheels I then introduce the other axle/s one at a time and repeat the process knowing that if the new axle has re-introduced a tight spot then the issue must be with the wheels on the new axle.  This can be quite time consuming but it is important to be patient and to only remove material from a crankpin hole once you are certain this is required and even then only take a very small amount of metal each time and retest to confirm that this is improving the situation rather than making it worse (in which case you've got the wrong crankpin).

 

This is very much my approach and others may do it differently.  I do see this as a bit of  a black art, and definitely a skill that can only be acquired through personal experience.   It is always better to get the hornblocks correctly spaced in the first place and then you will not need to adjust the crankpin holes at all. 

 

Regards,

 

Frank

[Kirby Uncoupler]

Hi Tony,

    I thought you didn't like Portescaps, or has that fatwa been lifted, in your more mellow years?😁 I remember a TW moan about the "Portescap Whine" coming from my DJH Black 5 and 8F locos, both hauling FA Cup specials via Little Bytham, when Mansfield were away to Norwich.

Good to see the old KX-Jamieson A2/1 brought back to life, Bert Collins, John Edgson, and my bosses would have approved. Back in 1974 I was a humble saturday boy at the KX shop (MRM Co.Ltd), as was Captain Kernow (see above) a few years later.  No doubt you placed the A2/1 commission on your saturday day-off from school in Wolverhampton, I might have even taken the order?  So there's a friendship that has lasted 50 years.

   Jamieson kits (from Cornwall) used to come in no-nonsense plain brown (manilla?) boxes, with a bright yellow wrapper, the contents were effectively sealed, so to many they were a mystery. Even us staff were reluctant to break the seal, since a sellotape repair would look bad if returned to the shelf, but how else were we supposed to display or explain the kits to customers? We did have spare yellow bands for extreme damage, the regular kits used to have printed class details on the end, for "specials", you'd just get a running number of class code, written in ballpoint pen.  Some of the kits were rather basic, couplings rods were drilled rail section, valve gear (where applicable) had to be modified for your particular loco.

     Concerning another current topic on this WW thread, with all senior members of the KX shop now sadly passed away, I think it's safe to reveal that my bosses did knock out "bootleg Romford axles", from time to time, another way of boosting profits, which worked well for years, none of the customers were any the wiser. Except for one day, a customer brought back some axles he'd purchased the week before, saying he couldn't quarter his wheelsets properly. On examination, the squared shoulders were out of parallel, making correct assembly impossible (sloppy lathe work, I know who did it!). More axles were returned and replaced in the ensuing weeks, it was only one rogue batch, most came back, we turned the duds into split axles, but there must be some dodgy originals still out there. 

      Another story from back then, was the great debate amongst customers,  about whether the the Airfix 1001 motor, or the MRM/KX MW5 was the superior motor? We sold both,  but people would often insist on one or the other, we even sold the 5-pole armatures as spares. Well the truth is they were identical, being the same thing, another of my bosses crafty little schemes, we even had a "MW Models" lock-up shop in Henley-On-Thames, to add legitimacy, and give MW5 an address. All the motors were in fact made by Airfix, it was a re-badging exercise, I often got lumbered with the job of re-packaging a few hundred at slack times, they were better than Romford Bulldogs from W&H, our great rivals.  Tee-hee.       BK 

[Michael Edge]

2 hours ago, 30368 said:

 

Yes, agree Tony looks really good and a slightly elusive prototype? Were many 04's converted to 04/7? Don't think I saw many. Do I detect a slight downturn on 63634's buffer beam? Perhaps its just the footplate return just beyond the cylinders that is missleading me....

 

 

Anyway it is a fine model and I really like the way you have modelled all(?) the 04 variations long may they thrive on LB.

 

Kind regards,

 

30368

Here's another rarely seen variant, an O4/5, rebuilt with a shortened Gresley boiler

Some of my own etches in this and a Judith Edge tender, seen here on Wentworth Junction at a very early stage 63745 has since been weathered. The Triang Trestrol behind it is one of their best models despite the fact that over an inch is missing from the length in the middle - not visible in this photo though.

[MJI]

I have one of the those 5 pole motors in my Flying Scotsman

 

Good motor

[Barclay]

1 hour ago, Kirby Uncoupler said:

Hi Tony,

    I thought you didn't like Portescaps, or has that fatwa been lifted, in your more mellow years?😁 I remember a TW moan about the "Portescap Whine" coming from my DJH Black 5 and 8F locos, both hauling FA Cup specials via Little Bytham, when Mansfield were away to Norwich.

Good to see the old KX-Jamieson A2/1 brought back to life, Bert Collins, John Edgson, and my bosses would have approved. Back in 1974 I was a humble saturday boy at the KX shop (MRM Co.Ltd), as was Captain Kernow (see above) a few years later.  No doubt you placed the A2/1 commission on your saturday day-off from school in Wolverhampton, I might have even taken the order?  So there's a friendship that has lasted 50 years.

   Jamieson kits (from Cornwall) used to come in no-nonsense plain brown (manilla?) boxes, with a bright yellow wrapper, the contents were effectively sealed, so to many they were a mystery. Even us staff were reluctant to break the seal, since a sellotape repair would look bad if returned to the shelf, but how else were we supposed to display or explain the kits to customers? We did have spare yellow bands for extreme damage, the regular kits used to have printed class details on the end, for "specials", you'd just get a running number of class code, written in ballpoint pen.  Some of the kits were rather basic, couplings rods were drilled rail section, valve gear (where applicable) had to be modified for your particular loco.

     Concerning another current topic on this WW thread, with all senior members of the KX shop now sadly passed away, I think it's safe to reveal that my bosses did knock out "bootleg Romford axles", from time to time, another way of boosting profits, which worked well for years, none of the customers were any the wiser. Except for one day, a customer brought back some axles he'd purchased the week before, saying he couldn't quarter his wheelsets properly. On examination, the squared shoulders were out of parallel, making correct assembly impossible (sloppy lathe work, I know who did it!). More axles were returned and replaced in the ensuing weeks, it was only one rogue batch, most came back, we turned the duds into split axles, but there must be some dodgy originals still out there. 

      Another story from back then, was the great debate amongst customers,  about whether the the Airfix 1001 motor, or the MRM/KX MW5 was the superior motor? We sold both,  but people would often insist on one or the other, we even sold the 5-pole armatures as spares. Well the truth is they were identical, being the same thing, another of my bosses crafty little schemes, we even had a "MW Models" lock-up shop in Henley-On-Thames, to add legitimacy, and give MW5 an address. All the motors were in fact made by Airfix, it was a re-badging exercise, I often got lumbered with the job of re-packaging a few hundred at slack times, they were better than Romford Bulldogs from W&H, our great rivals.  Tee-hee.       BK 

 

I reckon this L&Y 0-6-0 is definitely a special - how many do you think they might have made?

I look at it from time to time, have obtained drawings and works plates, but it's not reached the top of the building list yet!

 

 

[John Isherwood]

45 minutes ago, Michael Edge said:

The Triang Trestrol behind it is one of their best models despite the fact that over an inch is missing from the length in the middle - not visible in this photo though.

 

Well worth doing a cut-and-shut to the correct length, though the bogies need amending, too.

 

John Isherwood.

[Captain Kernow]

4 hours ago, Chuffer Davies said:

I never adjust crank pin holes with a broach, I always elongate the crankpin holes (on the non driven axle) with a rat tailed needle file, one way or the other depending upon which side of the crankpin hole the crankpin is pressed up against.  This takes some very careful investigation to make sure the hole is elongated in the correct direction.  Once the tight spot has been eliminated on a pair of wheels I then introduce the other axle/s one at a time and repeat the process knowing that if the new axle has re-introduced a tight spot then the issue must be with the wheels on the new axle.  This can be quite time consuming but it is important to be patient and to only remove material from a crankpin hole once you are certain this is required and even then only take a very small amount of metal each time and retest to confirm that this is improving the situation rather than making it worse (in which case you've got the wrong crankpin).

Everything you say in that post, Frank, is amongst the soundest advice I've seen on this forum for chassis builders, but the above paragraph is possible the most valuable for me personally.

 

Many thanks!

 

[Pebbles]

3 hours ago, Kirby Uncoupler said:

Hi Tony,

    I thought you didn't like Portescaps, or has that fatwa been lifted, in your more mellow years?😁 I remember a TW moan about the "Portescap Whine" coming from my DJH Black 5 and 8F locos, both hauling FA Cup specials via Little Bytham, when Mansfield were away to Norwich.

Good to see the old KX-Jamieson A2/1 brought back to life, Bert Collins, John Edgson, and my bosses would have approved. Back in 1974 I was a humble saturday boy at the KX shop (MRM Co.Ltd), as was Captain Kernow (see above) a few years later.  No doubt you placed the A2/1 commission on your saturday day-off from school in Wolverhampton, I might have even taken the order?  So there's a friendship that has lasted 50 years.

   Jamieson kits (from Cornwall) used to come in no-nonsense plain brown (manilla?) boxes, with a bright yellow wrapper, the contents were effectively sealed, so to many they were a mystery. Even us staff were reluctant to break the seal, since a sellotape repair would look bad if returned to the shelf, but how else were we supposed to display or explain the kits to customers? We did have spare yellow bands for extreme damage, the regular kits used to have printed class details on the end, for "specials", you'd just get a running number of class code, written in ballpoint pen.  Some of the kits were rather basic, couplings rods were drilled rail section, valve gear (where applicable) had to be modified for your particular loco.

     Concerning another current topic on this WW thread, with all senior members of the KX shop now sadly passed away, I think it's safe to reveal that my bosses did knock out "bootleg Romford axles", from time to time, another way of boosting profits, which worked well for years, none of the customers were any the wiser. Except for one day, a customer brought back some axles he'd purchased the week before, saying he couldn't quarter his wheelsets properly. On examination, the squared shoulders were out of parallel, making correct assembly impossible (sloppy lathe work, I know who did it!). More axles were returned and replaced in the ensuing weeks, it was only one rogue batch, most came back, we turned the duds into split axles, but there must be some dodgy originals still out there. 

      Another story from back then, was the great debate amongst customers,  about whether the the Airfix 1001 motor, or the MRM/KX MW5 was the superior motor? We sold both,  but people would often insist on one or the other, we even sold the 5-pole armatures as spares. Well the truth is they were identical, being the same thing, another of my bosses crafty little schemes, we even had a "MW Models" lock-up shop in Henley-On-Thames, to add legitimacy, and give MW5 an address. All the motors were in fact made by Airfix, it was a re-badging exercise, I often got lumbered with the job of re-packaging a few hundred at slack times, they were better than Romford Bulldogs from W&H, our great rivals.  Tee-hee.       BK 

Some time mid or late 80's I was in Bournemouth on a course. One evening I found the small workshop where they made ?assembled the Airfix or whatever motors. as an aside, Airfix at some time had a range of slot cars that used the 1002 version. Anyway, there was one individual on site who was spraying the armatures with insulation. I managed to purchase a number of armatures and also some pole pieces which I switched for the Triang/Hornby version. I believe that many years ago the late Iain Rice pointed out the the 1001 armature in a Hornby frame gave a smoother motor, with less power, than a pure 1001. 

Turning to the Romford axels, I once encountered a Romford axle that had been made with two pieces. Was this a KX bodge?

[Captain Kernow]

3 hours ago, Kirby Uncoupler said:

Back in 1974 I was a humble saturday boy at the KX shop (MRM Co.Ltd), as was Captain Kernow (see above) a few years later.

HI Brian - great to hear from you again!

 

If I may correct one particular fact, though, when I worked at KX, it wasn't as a Saturday boy, but as a full time member of staff, but on a limited contract only, for the months of the summer vacation from university.

 

It was such an interesting place to work. I made my first loco kit** 'for commercial gain' when I worked there, inspired by the lovely models in the showcase in the shop.

 

** Cotswold M&SWJR 2-4-0 tender loco

 

[Michael Edge]

4 hours ago, cctransuk said:

 

Well worth doing a cut-and-shut to the correct length, though the bogies need amending, too.

 

John Isherwood.

I have thought about doing this but the centre throwover would be huge and with our sharp curves it might cause problems - probably by demolishing ground signals. I have an empty one as well and they look OK to me, they are big enough as they are!

[Kirby Uncoupler]

2 hours ago, Captain Kernow said:

HI Brian - great to hear from you again!

 

If I may correct one particular fact, though, when I worked at KX, it wasn't as a Saturday boy, but as a full time member of staff, but on a limited contract only, for the months of the summer vacation from university.

 

It was such an interesting place to work. I made my first loco kit** 'for commercial gain' when I worked there, inspired by the lovely models in the showcase in the shop.

 

** Cotswold M&SWJR 2-4-0 tender loco

 

Hi Tim,

      Great to see you posting too, I well remember that 1334 loco of your's, good one to start on too, solid chassis, and no valve gear.  Nice job on the weathered track and pannier.

 

To try and answer "Barclay's" question above, most of the regular Jamieson kits were of Big Four types, I don't remember any BR Standards or Austerities, unless perhaps produced as specials(?), your L&Y 0-6-0  was not  exactly an obscure type though. You'ed think Austerity and Jamieson would have been a good match, being "austere" basic kits? The range was started by "Mr.Jamieson", and bought out by Eames Of Reading in the 1960s, the original owner was then kept on to produce the kits in Cornwall. I can see Barton-Wright (L&Y) written on your box in red biro, but details were normally on the ends, for storing on shelves. Thank you for rescuing this old girl from the secondhand stall.

One of the most popular kits in the range, and the most troublesome to produce, was the LMS Streamlined Coronation.  The nose was pressed and hammered out over a former, and was forever going wrong. As regards quantities of kits produced, I have no exact figures, in the 1970s we seemed to sell fewer and fewer, as more modern kits came on the market, they were very much of the 1950s and 60s, we still had some old stock in the early 1980s.

                   Cheers, Brian.

[Jeff]

7 hours ago, Chuffer Davies said:

......I never adjust crank pin holes with a broach, I always elongate the crankpin holes (on the non driven axle) with a rat tailed needle file, one way or the other depending upon which side of the crankpin hole the crankpin is pressed up against.  This takes some very careful investigation to make sure the hole is elongated in the correct direction.  Once the tight spot has been eliminated on a pair of wheels I then introduce the other axle/s one at a time and repeat the process knowing that if the new axle has re-introduced a tight spot then the issue must be with the wheels on the new axle...... 

 

Regards,

 

Frank

 

Hi Frank,

 

Can I clarify that you are saying the driven axle, or is it perhaps the centre axle (of 3 when fettling an 0-6-0) is always left as a circular hole broached just enough to ensure a working fit, so that any others are filed towards an oval or slot if they are found to be binding?

 

I ask because I am struggling with a large Prairie just now, using Comet components and Markits wheels. This has been built once as a sprung chassis using the current Comet nickel silver etches for frames and motion. Having failed to get rid of a knock I decided to eliminate the possibility that any play or inaccuracy in fitting the hornblocks might be the cause, so I built a second pair of frames with rigid bearings only to arrive at the same impasse.

 

Regards,

 

Jeff

[lezz01]

3 minutes ago, Jeff said:

 

Hi Frank,

 

Can I clarify that you are saying the driven axle, or is it perhaps the centre axle (of 3 when fettling an 0-6-0) is always left as a circular hole broached just enough to ensure a working fit, so that any others are filed towards an oval or slot if they are found to be binding?

 

I ask because I am struggling with a large Prairie just now, using Comet components and Markits wheels. This has been built once as a sprung chassis using the current Comet nickel silver etches for frames and motion. Having failed to get rid of a knock I decided to eliminate the possibility that any play or inaccuracy in fitting the hornblocks might be the cause, so I built a second pair of frames with rigid bearings only to arrive at the same impasse.

 

Regards,

 

Jeff

Does the gear wheel have a grub screw? If so the problem may be that the gear wheel is out of true with the worm. The way around this is to file a flat on the axle and do the screw up on the flat then back it off a bit so that the screw isn't pushing that gear out of true and set the screw in place with a touch of super glue or thread locker. Or omit the screw completely and fix the gear with thread locker which is self centring.

Regards Lez.  

[Jeff]

9 minutes ago, lezz01 said:

Does the gear wheel have a grub screw?

 

 

Hi Lez,

 

Thanks for that thought.

 

The drive is via a 45:1 High Level Road Runner Plus gearbox with a Mashima motor so yes, it does have a grub screw on the final drive gear and a flat filed on the axle. The worm is fixed using Loctite 603.

 

I'm doubtful this is a possible cause as the gears are not the fine cut type and have plenty of play in the mesh to accommodate a slight off centre effect due to a grub screw and in any case the whole shebang hangs on the axle. At worst this might cause the gearbox and motor to move around a bit more, rather than bind the motion, I would have thought?

 

Regards,

 

Jeff

[Tony Wright]

9 hours ago, 30368 said:

 

Yes, agree Tony looks really good and a slightly elusive prototype? Were many 04's converted to 04/7? Don't think I saw many. Do I detect a slight downturn on 63634's buffer beam? Perhaps its just the footplate return just beyond the cylinders that is missleading me....

 

 

Anyway it is a fine model and I really like the way you have modelled all(?) the 04 variations long may they thrive on LB.

 

Kind regards,

 

30368

Good evening,

 

I should have qualified my statement to read that it was the weathering which was 'beautifully natural', though I hope the loco looks natural enough. 

 

My 1955/1956 Ian Allan Combined Volume lists 40 O4/7s, though this figure is fluid, because some O4/7s (themselves rebuilds of O4/1s and O4/3s) would subsequently have been re-rebuilt into O4/8s. By 1959 there were 33 O4/7s. What the maximum number of O4/7s there might have been, I don't know. 

 

I don't have all the O4 derivatives - no O4/2, O4/4 (though these had all gone well before Bytham's year), O4/5 or O4/6, though all these were small in numbers. I suppose I could do an O4/6 with a side window cab for something different.

 

If there is a down turn on the loco's front buffer beam, I didn't deliberately create it, though I'm delighted if that's the case - most-natural!

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[lezz01]

Well then if it has a definite knock is one of the con rods touching the end of a slide bar or is the back of the slide bar fouling the crank pin?

Regards Lez. 

[Chuffer Davies]

1 hour ago, lezz01 said:

Does the gear wheel have a grub screw? If so the problem may be that the gear wheel is out of true with the worm. The way around this is to file a flat on the axle and do the screw up on the flat then back it off a bit so that the screw isn't pushing that gear out of true and set the screw in place with a touch of super glue or thread locker. Or omit the screw completely and fix the gear with thread locker which is self centring.

Regards Lez.  

Can J suggest that a simpler way to check if this is the problem is to remove the coupling rods and then put power to the motor to test that the driven axle turns smoothly when not connected to any other axle.

Regards,

Frank