Wright writes.....

[billbedford]

On 22/01/2024 at 17:47, Tony Wright said:

Has anyone else (in any model railway scale) made actual reversing valve gear?

 

I seem to remember some of Chris Penlenton's locos had a second motor for working the reversing gear. 

Edited January 23 by billbedford

[Tony Wright]

1 hour ago, t-b-g said:

 

Did they run with the tall GCR dome in BR days Tony? That isn't a combination I have seen, as I thought they all had shorter domes by then. The chimney is puzzling me too. If it is supposed to be a "flowerpot" it isn't a very good one but maybe it is a type I am unfamiliar with.

 

Alan Gibson will supply a shorter dome and a better chimney should you wish to improve it.

 

Are you going to add the wheel for the water scoop? I think there is an etched one in the kit from memory but it was a long time ago when I built mine.

Thanks Tony,

 

I've puzzled over the dome and chimney. 

 

Some J11/1s seemed to have a tall dome but of more angular appearance. I'll investigate further.

 

I believe most (if not all) J11s lost their water pick-up apparatus in BR days. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Craigw]

10 hours ago, Coach bogie said:

The Proscale A1 is not their only flawed kit. The GWR Saint and Start are design for 6ft wheels rather than 6ft 8 1/22.

 

I have completed two of the Proscale Saint kits though discarded the chassis and replaced with a Comet Hall chassis, the spacing of which accepts the larger wheels.

 

The Star I have abandoned altogether and is currently in the one day/never pile.

 

Mike Wiltshire

 

 

Building the Pro Scale Saint was the catalyst for Martin Finney producing kits according to an MRJ interview he did. I guess we have something to thank them for. I have a Westward kits straight frame Lady but even that is a bit agricultural too!

 

Craig W

[Bernard Lamb]

11 hours ago, GMKAT7 said:

Good morning folks,

 

Following up on the use of design drawings for metalwork/fabrication, a number of CAD software packages allow for 3D modelling.

 

Designs produced on such as Solid Edge require the designer to produce a virtual 3D model from which 2D drawings are generated.

However, being a 3D model, it also allows for flat patterns to be generated, so that a fabricator has it laid out.

Bend allowances are generated by the software and then included in the flat patterns.

 

A lot of our metalwork suppliers appreciated this help, as it allowed them to generate the layout of their planning for laser cutting machines, presses, etc.

 

Edit: Once the fabricators had made the first-off/prototype of, say, a radio enclosure, they would feedback any changes/tweaks to the designs and we would amend the 3D models and flat patterns to suit.

 

Cheers, Nigel.

Which is fine when you have the correct tooling available and material that is capable of being formed on that tooling and a press that is up to the job. Stuck in a rather limited workshop in the back of beyond, such facilities would be of little help.

Bernard

[Blandford1969]

Going back to the whole ready to run / kit debate. Sometimes I can see why it is just easier. You will be aware I have multiple projects on the go from all sorts of areas, just things I like. Its a way of coping with my own anxieties and they progress in a glacial way with my mojo. However last weekend I finally got on with making the corner pieces for a 97xx. The bunker is ok its just the way the photo seems to have come out. I checked. 

 

In doing it I learned why some of the GW bunkers I have looked into while driving have a bit let in on the curve. Its easier.  Anyway here you go . I also found that the only way to attach them was to use a strenghening rib over both bits, like the prototype.  The photos show the order, trying to cut from one bit of brass in 4mm is very, very, very hard. Doing them took about 1 and a half hours.

 

Meanwhile the D20/2 has been put onto the footplate and now needs cutting prior to fitting the valences (I know backwards for many) 

 

 

 

[65179]

41 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Thanks Tony,

 

I've puzzled over the dome and chimney. 

 

Some J11/1s seemed to have a tall dome but of more angular appearance. I'll investigate further.

 

I believe most (if not all) J11s lost their water pick-up apparatus in BR days. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

The angular dome of the same general form as fitted to the O4s was pretty uncommon on J11s, although there were at least one or two. Most BR J11s had a dome with a flatter top than the GC dome. This N Jordan Flickr image shows the most common BR era boiler fittings:

 

 

It took me a while to realise when doing mine that both the whistle and middle front lampiron are off centre. The whistle presumably to stay in loading gauge and the middle lamp iron to avoid the centre hinge on the valve cover.

 

I think @t-b-g was referring to the fact that you have modelled both the D shaped water filler with the extra box for the water pick up gear (I'm not sure whether any retained the extra box despite losing the scoop) and more importantly you've added the box that the ship's wheel fits on in front of the front coalguard. If your J11 is not scoop fitted then this definitely  needs removing as per the image above.

 

Simon

Edited January 23 by 65179

[lezz01]

29 minutes ago, Blandford1969 said:

Going back to the whole ready to run / kit debate. Sometimes I can see why it is just easier. You will be aware I have multiple projects on the go from all sorts of areas, just things I like. Its a way of coping with my own anxieties and they progress in a glacial way with my mojo. However last weekend I finally got on with making the corner pieces for a 97xx. The bunker is ok its just the way the photo seems to have come out. I checked. 

 

In doing it I learned why some of the GW bunkers I have looked into while driving have a bit let in on the curve. Its easier.  Anyway here you go . I also found that the only way to attach them was to use a strenghening rib over both bits, like the prototype.  The photos show the order, trying to cut from one bit of brass in 4mm is very, very, very hard. Doing them took about 1 and a half hours.

 

Meanwhile the D20/2 has been put onto the footplate and now needs cutting prior to fitting the valences (I know backwards for many) 

 

 

 

It's nice to see someone else other than myself using a jeweller's Pin.

Regards Lez. 

[Tony Wright]

31 minutes ago, 65179 said:

 

The angular dome of the same general form as fitted to the O4s was pretty uncommon on J11s, although there were at least one or two. Most BR J11s had a dome with a flatter top than the GC dome. This N Jordan Flickr image shows the most common BR era boiler fittings:

 

 

It took me a while to realise when doing mine that both the whistle and middle front lampiron are off centre. The whistle presumably to stay in loading gauge and the middle lamp iron to avoid the centre hinge on the valve cover.

 

I think @t-b-g was referring to the fact that you have modelled both the D shaped water filler with the extra box for the water pick up gear (I'm not sure whether any retained the extra box despite losing the scoop) and more importantly you've added the box that the ship's wheel fits on in front of the front coalguard. If your J11 is not scoop fitted then this definitely  needs removing as per the image above.

 

Simon

Thanks Simon,

 

I've found a more-suitable dome from my spares box.

 

The superfluous box can be removed, or should I add the wheel? It's supplied with the kit. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Blandford1969]

7 minutes ago, lezz01 said:

It's nice to see someone else other than myself using a jeweller's Pin.

Regards Lez. 

It gets alot of use.  Lets face it scratchbuilding may be slow but it really is satisfying 

Best wishes

Duncan

[t-b-g]

30 minutes ago, 65179 said:

 

The angular dome of the same general form as fitted to the O4s was pretty uncommon on J11s, although there were at least one or two. Most BR J11s had a dome with a flatter top than the GC dome. This N Jordan Flickr image shows the most common BR era boiler fittings:

 

 

It took me a while to realise when doing mine that both the whistle and middle front lampiron are off centre. The whistle presumably to stay in loading gauge and the middle lamp iron to avoid the centre hinge on the valve cover.

 

I think @t-b-g was referring to the fact that you have modelled both the D shaped water filler with the extra box for the water pick up gear (I'm not sure whether any retained the extra box despite losing the scoop) and more importantly you've added the box that the ship's wheel fits on in front of the front coalguard. If your J11 is not scoop fitted then this definitely  needs removing as per the image above.

 

Simon

 

That mounting block is what made me mention the water pick up wheel. My thinking is that the boxes in the back of the tender were kept. There is little or no evidence to prove this but if the boxes were removed, there would have been big holes in the tank top that would need plating in and I know that some tenders were built with the boxes but without scoop gear, so I call it an informed guess. It also made it easy to put the gear back in at a later date if the tender was transferred to a loco that needed it. The mounting for the wheel on the tender front was removed as you say and illustrate.

[GMKAT7]

Hello Bernard,

 

I fully agree with your comments, as my experience is based on UK railway industry engineering.

 

Although some may think that Derbyshire is the back of beyond 😂

 

Cheers, Nigel.

[65179]

33 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Thanks Simon,

 

I've found a more-suitable dome from my spares box.

 

The superfluous box can be removed, or should I add the wheel? It's supplied with the kit. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

My guess would be that you remove the box. However that might depend on whether it's a loco for the 1958 mainline or your more flexible period M&GN section. Which J11 are you doing?

 

Simon

[lezz01]

44 minutes ago, Blandford1969 said:

It gets alot of use.  Lets face it scratchbuilding may be slow but it really is satisfying 

Best wishes

Duncan

Yeh I can see it's very well used. Mine's a new one. I had a proper wedge shaped one before but I used it to death it literarily fell apart. 

This is the new one when it was brand new 

It's a bit battered now of course.

I wouldn't be without one I can't see how anyone can work without one either.

Regards Lez.

[Woodcock29]

9 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

Probably because the flanges are overscale.

This was an issue fitting 24mm Romford wheels to the Ks P2 - had to turn the flanges down. Now I do it as standard practice when using any older Romfords.

[John Besley]

14 hours ago, Captain Kernow said:

 

 

The photos taken on or from the footplate were done when the train had slowed for signal or other operational reasons, ie. when it was safe to let go with one hand!

 

 

Is that Ray Churchill...?

[ndeluck]

On 21/01/2024 at 15:08, Tony Wright said:

Excellent work.

 

Thanks for showing us.

 

Just a couple of points, please. Are you going to fit the front steps? They are a prominent feature on the real things.

 

And, just put a lick of matt black paint on to the cab roof, between the horizontal rainstrips and the eaves.

 

Wiggly pipes? 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Evening Tony, 

Referencing photos of 60134, as well as other A1's including Tornado, I assume this is what you meant as far as painting the strip below the rainstrips?

I'd looked through the original box the A1 came in, and swore all I saw were the brake rigging and drain cocks as far as supplied detail fittings went. 
Didn't think to check the detail pack cavity in case there might be more, but of course there was.

 

 

Here she is with almost everything fitted. Just need to lob off that NEM pocket extruding from the bogie. "Wiggly" bits might come later, though your methods for that produce great results.
Thank you for the input Tony, I view this as my big first step into "real" railway modeling and I am very proud of it.


All the best, 

Nick

Edited January 24 by ndeluck

[Bucoops]

11 hours ago, lezz01 said:

Yeh I can see it's very well used. Mine's a new one. I had a proper wedge shaped one before but I used it to death it literarily fell apart. 

This is the new one when it was brand new 

It's a bit battered now of course.

I wouldn't be without one I can't see how anyone can work without one either.

Regards Lez.

 

Interesting. Not a tool I am familiar with - what is its purpose please and do you have some more photos of it in use so i can get my head round it?

 

thanks :)

[Captain Kernow]

9 hours ago, John Besley said:

 

Is that Ray Churchill...?

Of course!

[John Isherwood]

3 hours ago, Bucoops said:

 

Interesting. Not a tool I am familiar with - what is its purpose please and do you have some more photos of it in use so i can get my head round it?

 

thanks :)

 

Basically, it's a rest for the workpiece - primarily when using a piercing or fret saw - but very useful when undertaking any of the more intricate tasks that we do.

 

The indentations allow maximum support for the work, whilst allowing the saw blade to cut into it.

 

CJI.

Edited January 24 by cctransuk

[Tony Wright]

13 hours ago, 65179 said:

 

My guess would be that you remove the box. However that might depend on whether it's a loco for the 1958 mainline or your more flexible period M&GN section. Which J11 are you doing?

 

Simon

Good morning Simon,

 

Box removed and a new dome substituted. I'll leave the chimney for the time being.

 

Which J11? Definitely one from 1958; I have about a dozen J11s to choose from (I model what I saw as a rule), so I'll decide after more research.

 

 

 

Though ostensibly similar in appearance, these GC 'standard' tenders had numerous variations.

 

 

Bachmann supplied this type with its J11, with any evidence of water pick-up removed. 

 

 

I have to say, with a little detailing/weathering it's turned out into a better model than the one I'm making. I no longer own this, which poses an interesting question for myself. Is it more important that I make a loco rather than by obtaining a more-accurate one using (modified) RTR?

 

 

 

Bachmann provided a different tender for its (English) D11 - a self-trimmer? 

 

This example (detailed/renumbered/renamed/weathered by me, converted to EM by Ray Chessum) now runs on Retford.

 

I assume it's the same tender supplied with the firm's O4/1? 

 

I've just detailed/renumbered/weathered this example. 

 

I fitted a Bachmann tender to a Hornby D49 conversion I did as a birthday present for Ben Jones' dad. 

 

 

Lining it and detailing it.

 

 

To make an 'acceptable' 'layout' loco? 

 

 

 

K's old GC tender never came with water pick-up gear.

 

 

The pick-up wheel on a Little Engines O4/1 (not my build).

 

 

But not on Tony Geary's heroically-filthy O4/3 (actually numbered as an O4/1!). 

 

 

No gear (correctly) on this fiddled-with Hornby O1.

 

 

The J11/1 built by John Houlden - tall chimney, water pick-up gear, safety valves on a base and a tender with filled-in coal rails; discuss.......

 

All fascinating stuff in our quest for 'accuracy'.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Tony Wright]

9 hours ago, ndeluck said:

Evening Tony, 

Referencing photos of 60134, as well as other A1's including Tornado, I assume this is what you meant as far as painting the strip below the rainstrips?

I'd looked through the original box the A1 came in, and swore all I saw were the brake rigging and drain cocks as far as supplied detail fittings went. 
Didn't think to check the detail pack cavity in case there might be more, but of course there was.

 

 

Here she is with almost everything fitted. Just need to lob off that NEM pocket extruding from the bogie. "Wiggly" bits might come later, though your methods for that produce great results.
Thank you for the input Tony, I view this as my big first step into "real" railway modeling and I am very proud of it.


All the best, 

Nick

Good morning Nick,

 

A most-creditable effort........ Well done!

 

The three Bachmann A1s I've 'fiddled-with'..............

 

 

Doncaster-built 60125 (those awful headlamps have long gone).

 

 

Darlington-built 60138.

 

 

And Darlington-built 60144 (I didn't alter this ones identity).

 

Lots of nice wiggly pipes.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

[65179]

3 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Good morning Simon,

 

Box removed and a new dome substituted. I'll leave the chimney for the time being.

 

Which J11? Definitely one from 1958; I have about a dozen J11s to choose from (I model what I saw as a rule), so I'll decide after more research.

 

 

 

Though ostensibly similar in appearance, these GC 'standard' tenders had numerous variations.

 

 

Bachmann supplied this type with its J11, with any evidence of water pick-up removed. 

 

 

I have to say, with a little detailing/weathering it's turned out into a better model than the one I'm making. I no longer own this, which poses an interesting question for myself. Is it more important that I make a loco rather than by obtaining a more-accurate one using (modified) RTR?

 

 

 

Bachmann provided a different tender for its (English) D11 - a self-trimmer? 

 

This example (detailed/renumbered/renamed/weathered by me, converted to EM by Ray Chessum) now runs on Retford.

 

I assume it's the same tender supplied with the firm's O4/1? 

 

I've just detailed/renumbered/weathered this example. 

 

I fitted a Bachmann tender to a Hornby D49 conversion I did as a birthday present for Ben Jones' dad. 

 

 

Lining it and detailing it.

 

 

To make an 'acceptable' 'layout' loco? 

 

 

 

K's old GC tender never came with water pick-up gear.

 

 

The pick-up wheel on a Little Engines O4/1 (not my build).

 

 

But not on Tony Geary's heroically-filthy O4/3 (actually numbered as an O4/1!). 

 

 

No gear (correctly) on this fiddled-with Hornby O1.

 

 

The J11/1 built by John Houlden - tall chimney, water pick-up gear, safety valves on a base and a tender with filled-in coal rails; discuss.......

 

All fascinating stuff in our quest for 'accuracy'.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

It could no doubt be added to, but I started a thread documenting some of the variations to look out for on the Robinson 3250 and 4000 gallon tenders:

 

Edit: this view taken from the above thread shows what the rear of your 04/8 should look like:

 

(Robert Gadson Flickr image)

 

A circular filler (almost totally hidden by the tender flare), with the division plate closer to the tank rear, and not a truncated D filler.

 

Simon

Edited January 24 by 65179
Spelling and to add a photo link

[lezz01]

1 hour ago, cctransuk said:

 

Basically, it's a rest for the workpiece - primarily when using a piercing or fret saw - but very useful when undertaking any of the more intricate tasks that we do.

 

The indentations allow maximum support for the work, whilst allowing the saw blade to cut into it.

 

CJI.

Yep that's a concise description of a jewellers pin. They are fitted to a bench with a semi-circular cut out with either a leather apron fitted beneath the bench or a draw that slides out to catch any waste and prevent the workpiece from being lost if dropped. 

Regards Lez.     

[jrg1]

Perseverance produced a booklet detailing the difference in GCR tenders.

[Woodcock29]

Tony

The self trimming 4000 gallon GC tenders were only ever fitted to D11, B3 and B7s as far as I know.

 

Bachmann have made 5 differing GC tenders (6 if you count the version issued with the GWR/WR ROD). Possibly even a 7th with the latest ROD models - I've not seen its tender closeup.

 

Initially the version with all the O4 models, which is a 4000 gallon ex ROD tender I think. Although this is confounded by the fact the tender with the LNER version 6190 has the number plate 6202 on the front coal plate which was first coupled to an O4/1 so would have had water pickup when built. (Interestingly the tender with the preserved O4/1 has the number plate 6202 on it but was never coupled to that engine in service according to Yeadon.)

 

Then the self trimming 4000 gallon tender with water pick up with the D11/1 and a non-water pick version with the D11/2 (actually made before the D11/1 by Bachmann).

 

Two 4000 gallon versions with the J11. One with water pickup for the LNER version and one without water pickup for the BR version. This is the best model in my view as by this stage Bachmann had got around to fitting separate brakes.

 

Others might be able to add more about these tenders?

 

Andrew