Wright writes.....

[Barry Ten]

6 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

 

Spot on - our education system requires us to commit huge amounts of data to memory, and judges our competence purely on our ability to do this.

 

 

I struggled with 'O' and 'A' level chemistry for this reason. I might be mischaracterising it but much of it seemed to be learning the names of different reagents and the colours they changed to in the presence of other chemicals ... not a hope in hell! Whereas with physics, provided you learned a few basic principles and methods, the rest was just application rather than memorisation.

Edited June 13, 2023 by Barry Ten

[gr.king]

Yes. maths and physics are systematic, almost anything but the basic principles, once forgotten, can be recreated by working from those basic principles, so long as you can apply logic and do the necessary manipulation of algebra.

 

In chemistry it seemed to me that although there were many rules (or at least general patterns) and systems, they were not universal. You had to know / remember which rule or system trumped all the others in the case that you were considering, as well as remembering a lot of seemingly random other facts.

Edited June 13, 2023 by gr.king

[woodenhead]

2 hours ago, john new said:

Fully concur. Knowing where to look and how to filter the answers to sort the wheat from the chaff is key. It is the failing of exam systems, there should be a key paper asking students where to look, how to trust answers. That is as valid in our hobby research as in the business and academic world.

My understanding when my youngest was considering university was that for any jobs outside of specific professions then it was your ability to do your research well, be able to commit that to a document and back up your conclusions that was the most important element not the actual degree itself.  He was told to do a degree in the subject that interested him (which was history) over a business one because he would still find good employment with the degree and would enjoy the university experience all the more.

 

Did he listen.....no....but he did manage to enjoy university and he has been gainfully employed since.

[FarrMan]

A good exam will test comprehension rather than memory. Fact sheets will be included, or you may be allowed to bring your own notes up to a given number of pages. But what proportion of exams are good exams?

 

Lloyd

[thegreenhowards]

7 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Good morning again Andy,

 

Do you have shots of your QoS rake, please?

 

I don't think it's one I photographed on LB.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Yes…they would have been on my Gresley Jn thread but they will have been lost in the great RNWeb meltdown. So I’ll have to go back on my laptop and see if I can find them. If I can’t it will give me an excuse to run it and take some photos. Give me a day or two.

 

Andy

[St Enodoc]

9 hours ago, FarrMan said:

But what proportion of exams are good exams?

The ones I took were good coz I passed!

[Coach bogie]

14 hours ago, FarrMan said:

A good exam will test comprehension rather than memory. Fact sheets will be included, or you may be allowed to bring your own notes up to a given number of pages. But what proportion of exams are good exams?

 

Lloyd

 In my teaching days, the vocational teaching days, before it was decided it was cheaper just to sit an exam, students had to produce practical or project work to prove their understanding as part of their assessment.

 

Mike Wiltshire

[FarrMan]

6 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

The ones I took were good coz I passed!

Not one I set!!!

 

Lloyd

[gr.king]

The other side of the coin of course is that, as preparation for some professions or occupations, exams that do not require rapid un-aided recall of any of many facts are equally useless, because in many real-life career situations the required pace and intensity of urgent work seldom leaves time to look up the necessary information.

Edited June 14, 2023 by gr.king

[Tony Wright]

Speaking of teaching/exams/etc, it's a big occasion for Little Bytham today......

 

Civica, a technology company, is bringing along seven of its employees for a team-building session. The only one who knows anything about model railways (the organiser) is hoping that a group with no prior experience will successfully operate the sequence on LB, but only by working together. The participants will be given a 'crash' course in Bytham's operation and then (to begin with, under supervision) will run some 50 trains, all in the correct order. The plan is for a kind of 'round-robin' to occur, where everyone has a go at all the positions in turn - driver, signaller, fiddle yard operator and so on. Breaking for lunch, the team should be 'built' by late-afternoon. What can go wrong? Does it matter if it does, as long as teamwork takes place? 

 

Because Bytham is really old-fashioned in its electrical operation (with separate positions for driving, signalling and fiddle yard offering/accepting), then it lends itself to this kind of thing - no single control, for instance; meaning that unless everyone performs their 'independent' task correctly, it won't run! 

 

And the best part about it? The firm is donating £1,000.00 to CRUK for this exercise, with promises of further donations from companies it works with! 

 

I'll be filming it (still and video) for BRM, beginning in just under an hour's time (after tea/coffee/biscuits). I'll report accordingly.

 

I'm really looking forward to it. I think it's a brilliant idea (not mine, of course), so thanks Phil.

[FarrMan]

1 hour ago, Coach bogie said:

 In my teaching days, the vocational teaching days, before it was decided it was cheaper just to sit an exam, students had to produce practical or project work to prove their understanding as part of their assessment.

 

Mike Wiltshire

The most important exams for most of our courses (Civil Engineering, Construction Management and Quantity Surveying) took the form of a real life project within the 'local' area (The Highland region represents app 10% of the land area of the UK, and students came over from the islands, Argyll, Moray, etc., with some from further afield). They had to prepare a report indicating their own research, etc, into several different aspects of the project. They were also encouraged to show and discuss their progress with their tutors and others, so that we could encourage them and guide them along the right lines. We tried to design it to be as near to a normal work situation as possible. Part of the submission was a presentation in front of two tutors, which included answering questions. I always asked them what they had learnt by doing the project, and usually they explained how they would do it differently the next time, which showed us how well they were learning.

 

Lloyd

[FarrMan]

4 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Speaking of teaching/exams/etc, it's a big occasion for Little Bytham today......

 

Civica, a technology company, is bringing along seven of its employees for a team-building session. The only one who knows anything about model railways (the organiser) is hoping that a group with no prior experience will successfully operate the sequence on LB, but only by working together. The participants will be given a 'crash' course in Bytham's operation and then (to begin with, under supervision) will run some 50 trains, all in the correct order. The plan is for a kind of 'round-robin' to occur, where everyone has a go at all the positions in turn - driver, signaller, fiddle yard operator and so on. Breaking for lunch, the team should be 'built' by late-afternoon. What can go wrong? Does it matter if it does, as long as teamwork takes place? 

 

Because Bytham is really old-fashioned in its electrical operation (with separate positions for driving, signalling and fiddle yard offering/accepting), then it lends itself to this kind of thing - no single control, for instance; meaning that unless everyone performs their 'independent' task correctly, it won't run! 

 

And the best part about it? The firm is donating £1,000.00 to CRUK for this exercise, with promises of further donations from companies it works with! 

 

I'll be filming it (still and video) for BRM, beginning in just under an hour's time (after tea/coffee/biscuits). I'll report accordingly.

 

I'm really looking forward to it. I think it's a brilliant idea (not mine, of course), so thanks Phil.

What a brilliant idea! and what an excellent way to raise money for charity, and hopefully raise the status of railway modelling in some folks eyes. Hope all goes well. The company are probably getting what they want on the cheap as well. Benefits all round. I look forward to hearing how it works in practise.

 

Lloyd

[30368]

Sorry to interupt the flow Tony. Have noticed what a large collection of A1's you have, but then they were very "front line" in the period you are modelling.

 

I have a quick prototype question (I know there is a thread for such things but suspect that this is where I will get an answer).

 

I am building a 4mm scale (00) V4 2-6-2 using Judith Edge Etches. It will be 61701 and in BR mixed traffic livery. I know that around 1953/4 these engines were downgraded from 5MT to 4MT (Why??) but my real query concerns the Route Availability. From the limited images available I can't tell if they were RA4 or RA6, I suspect the latter. Can anyone please confirm. I have searched the web but no joy.

 

Kind regards and thanking in anticipation,

 

Richard B

[Bucoops]

34 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Speaking of teaching/exams/etc, it's a big occasion for Little Bytham today......

 

Civica, a technology company, is bringing along seven of its employees for a team-building session. The only one who knows anything about model railways (the organiser) is hoping that a group with no prior experience will successfully operate the sequence on LB, but only by working together. The participants will be given a 'crash' course in Bytham's operation and then (to begin with, under supervision) will run some 50 trains, all in the correct order. The plan is for a kind of 'round-robin' to occur, where everyone has a go at all the positions in turn - driver, signaller, fiddle yard operator and so on. Breaking for lunch, the team should be 'built' by late-afternoon. What can go wrong? Does it matter if it does, as long as teamwork takes place? 

 

Because Bytham is really old-fashioned in its electrical operation (with separate positions for driving, signalling and fiddle yard offering/accepting), then it lends itself to this kind of thing - no single control, for instance; meaning that unless everyone performs their 'independent' task correctly, it won't run! 

 

And the best part about it? The firm is donating £1,000.00 to CRUK for this exercise, with promises of further donations from companies it works with! 

 

I'll be filming it (still and video) for BRM, beginning in just under an hour's time (after tea/coffee/biscuits). I'll report accordingly.

 

I'm really looking forward to it. I think it's a brilliant idea (not mine, of course), so thanks Phil.

 

What a great idea!

 

I think they own "Technology Forge" which is asset management software that some of our clients use and I have to export data to.

 

If any of them are involved in that, give them a clout round the ear from me please because it is a right pain in the backside 🙃

[Bernard Lamb]

29 minutes ago, 30368 said:

Sorry to interupt the flow Tony. Have noticed what a large collection of A1's you have, but then they were very "front line" in the period you are modelling.

 

I have a quick prototype question (I know there is a thread for such things but suspect that this is where I will get an answer).

 

I am building a 4mm scale (00) V4 2-6-2 using Judith Edge Etches. It will be 61701 and in BR mixed traffic livery. I know that around 1953/4 these engines were downgraded from 5MT to 4MT (Why??) but my real query concerns the Route Availability. From the limited images available I can't tell if they were RA4 or RA6, I suspect the latter. Can anyone please confirm. I have searched the web but no joy.

 

Kind regards and thanking in anticipation,

 

Richard B

Looking in the Green Book V4 was RA4.

Bernard

[thegreenhowards]

Tony,

 

You asked for some photos of my QoS. I did manage to find the ones I’d taken before and have restored them to their place in the Gresley Jn thread.

 

However, these photos didn’t really do it justice, so I braved the heat in the loft this morning (it’s uninhabitable by the afternoon!) and took some more.

 

This is the full train.

 

 

The loco is a basic Bachmann model, with just coal, crew, headboard and lamps added.

 

 

The cars have generally had quite a bit more work. The formation is similiar to yours - I can’t remember which CWN I used but it would have been a mid-late 1950s one. The cars are all mentioned as running on the QoS in the Ford books. First up we have Fingall and Car No.105 which form the Leeds portion. Fingall is a renamed Hornby while Car 105 is a Hornby cut and shut. The three cars 105/6/7 were ECML regulars and had different window spacing to the Hornby cars, so I had to cut up the sides and put them back together again. I wrote this up in my Coulsdon Works thread, but again, the photos have been lost. If anyone wants to see them, let me know and I’ll see if I can reinsert them. The name is a full length label from Precision Labels which helps hide the joints.

 

 

Then we have Cars No. 161 and 70 - both renumbered Hornby, the former is wooden and the latter, all steel. These were renumbered with transfers as I hadn’t discovered the Precision Labels when I did these.

 

 

Then we have Cars 83 and Joan, both Hornby all steel out of the box, apart from roof weathering.

Then, Onyx and Zena. Onyx is a Hornby wooden and Zena is an older Hornby Railroad type, renamed with Precision Labels and fitted with SE Finecast flush glazing. 
 

And bringing up the rear we have Cars 107 and 77. Both were originally older Hornby all steel Pullmans fitted with SE Finecast flush glazing and Precision Labels’ names. Car 107 was a cut and shut on the sides and I had to do significant reworking to the roof and underframe to make it a wooden bodied variant. I started my cut and shutting with this one as I didn’t want to cut up a more expensive ‘super detail’ type until I’d proved the concept!

 

 

Finally, there is the attractive end board, again from Precision Labels. 
 

 

I’m happy to answer any questions. Quite a lot of research went into this, but it was five or so years ago, so I may not remember it all exactly!

 

Andy

[melmoth]

1 hour ago, Tony Wright said:

Speaking of teaching/exams/etc, it's a big occasion for Little Bytham today......

 

Civica, a technology company, is bringing along seven of its employees for a team-building session. The only one who knows anything about model railways (the organiser) is hoping that a group with no prior experience will successfully operate the sequence on LB, but only by working together. The participants will be given a 'crash' course in Bytham's operation and then (to begin with, under supervision) will run some 50 trains, all in the correct order. The plan is for a kind of 'round-robin' to occur, where everyone has a go at all the positions in turn - driver, signaller, fiddle yard operator and so on. Breaking for lunch, the team should be 'built' by late-afternoon. What can go wrong? Does it matter if it does, as long as teamwork takes place? 

 

Because Bytham is really old-fashioned in its electrical operation (with separate positions for driving, signalling and fiddle yard offering/accepting), then it lends itself to this kind of thing - no single control, for instance; meaning that unless everyone performs their 'independent' task correctly, it won't run! 

 

And the best part about it? The firm is donating £1,000.00 to CRUK for this exercise, with promises of further donations from companies it works with! 

 

I'll be filming it (still and video) for BRM, beginning in just under an hour's time (after tea/coffee/biscuits). I'll report accordingly.

 

I'm really looking forward to it. I think it's a brilliant idea (not mine, of course), so thanks Phil.

 

As the Americans are fond of saying, thoughts and prayers.

[30368]

58 minutes ago, Bernard Lamb said:

Looking in the Green Book V4 was RA4.

Bernard

 

Thanks Bernard, that is an achievement then. Quite a substantial locomotive and more than met the objective of a go anywhere locomotive.

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard B

[St Enodoc]

2 hours ago, FarrMan said:

The most important exams for most of our courses (Civil Engineering, Construction Management and Quantity Surveying) took the form of a real life project within the 'local' area (The Highland region represents app 10% of the land area of the UK, and students came over from the islands, Argyll, Moray, etc., with some from further afield). They had to prepare a report indicating their own research, etc, into several different aspects of the project. They were also encouraged to show and discuss their progress with their tutors and others, so that we could encourage them and guide them along the right lines. We tried to design it to be as near to a normal work situation as possible. Part of the submission was a presentation in front of two tutors, which included answering questions. I always asked them what they had learnt by doing the project, and usually they explained how they would do it differently the next time, which showed us how well they were learning.

 

Lloyd

We had a mix of written exams, practical tests and two projects - a design project (including drawing) and a practical research-style project. The projects were written up as reports and the reports presented verbally to the lecturers/examiners.

[Mallard60022]

Totally off Topic except for the Education bit.

I am part of a 'select' group of locals helping a Student at Glasgow  (Herriott?) Uni and a local to the area, with a Heritage and Community (over 60s) Thesis. Basically a link between the person and their local heritage and community and their attitudes, life-style and possible concerns regarding such things as safety, accessibility and life choices .

I chose the importance of the Railway to Retford.

I have to select a maximum of 16 Photo's with captions and then attend a group meeting in July where all the participants explain and mumble on about their Photo's and the reasons they were chosen. 

 

 

Thus the following:

R.H. 1961, top of the Spotters Wall, Platform 1 Retford.

I wonder who RH was/is?

There are other markings, however most are now unreadable.

Another link is T.W. wuz 'ere!

Sincerely,

Phil  

[Tony Wright]

10 hours ago, Bucoops said:

 

What a great idea!

 

I think they own "Technology Forge" which is asset management software that some of our clients use and I have to export data to.

 

If any of them are involved in that, give them a clout round the ear from me please because it is a right pain in the backside 🙃

Good evening Rich,

 

I have no idea if any member of of the group who came today has anything to do with 'Technology Forge'.

 

What I would say............................

 

 

 

 

 

 

Is that they all operated LB brilliantly. In fact, probably better than many of the 'regular' operators!

 

Everyone had a fantastic day. If anyone else has a trainset they can use in this manner, I thoroughly recommend it. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Tony Wright]

6 hours ago, Mallard60022 said:

Totally off Topic except for the Education bit.

I am part of a 'select' group of locals helping a Student at Glasgow  (Herriott?) Uni and a local to the area, with a Heritage and Community (over 60s) Thesis. Basically a link between the person and their local heritage and community and their attitudes, life-style and possible concerns regarding such things as safety, accessibility and life choices .

I chose the importance of the Railway to Retford.

I have to select a maximum of 16 Photo's with captions and then attend a group meeting in July where all the participants explain and mumble on about their Photo's and the reasons they were chosen. 

 

 

Thus the following:

R.H. 1961, top of the Spotters Wall, Platform 1 Retford.

I wonder who RH was/is?

There are other markings, however most are now unreadable.

Another link is T.W. wuz 'ere!

Sincerely,

Phil  

Good evening Phil,

 

Indeed I wuz a member of that merry band of 'spotters who inhabited 'The Wall' at Retford.

 

But, as far as I know, I've never appeared in any pictures............

 

 

Just one inhabitant on this September day in 1962.

 

 

And whoever that is, it's certainly not me!

 

 

Just a couple on the top to watch this Deltic roar by in 1962. 

 

Did I say I'd make the telegraph poles for Retford? 

 

I'll keep looking, and maybe one day...........

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

[Tony Wright]

10 hours ago, thegreenhowards said:

Tony,

 

You asked for some photos of my QoS. I did manage to find the ones I’d taken before and have restored them to their place in the Gresley Jn thread.

 

However, these photos didn’t really do it justice, so I braved the heat in the loft this morning (it’s uninhabitable by the afternoon!) and took some more.

 

This is the full train.

 

 

The loco is a basic Bachmann model, with just coal, crew, headboard and lamps added.

 

 

The cars have generally had quite a bit more work. The formation is similiar to yours - I can’t remember which CWN I used but it would have been a mid-late 1950s one. The cars are all mentioned as running on the QoS in the Ford books. First up we have Fingall and Car No.105 which form the Leeds portion. Fingall is a renamed Hornby while Car 105 is a Hornby cut and shut. The three cars 105/6/7 were ECML regulars and had different window spacing to the Hornby cars, so I had to cut up the sides and put them back together again. I wrote this up in my Coulsdon Works thread, but again, the photos have been lost. If anyone wants to see them, let me know and I’ll see if I can reinsert them. The name is a full length label from Precision Labels which helps hide the joints.

 

 

Then we have Cars No. 161 and 70 - both renumbered Hornby, the former is wooden and the latter, all steel. These were renumbered with transfers as I hadn’t discovered the Precision Labels when I did these.

 

 

Then we have Cars 83 and Joan, both Hornby all steel out of the box, apart from roof weathering.

Then, Onyx and Zena. Onyx is a Hornby wooden and Zena is an older Hornby Railroad type, renamed with Precision Labels and fitted with SE Finecast flush glazing. 
 

And bringing up the rear we have Cars 107 and 77. Both were originally older Hornby all steel Pullmans fitted with SE Finecast flush glazing and Precision Labels’ names. Car 107 was a cut and shut on the sides and I had to do significant reworking to the roof and underframe to make it a wooden bodied variant. I started my cut and shutting with this one as I didn’t want to cut up a more expensive ‘super detail’ type until I’d proved the concept!

 

 

Finally, there is the attractive end board, again from Precision Labels. 
 

 

I’m happy to answer any questions. Quite a lot of research went into this, but it was five or so years ago, so I may not remember it all exactly!

 

Andy

Good evening Andy,

 

A very creditable job; thanks for showing us.

 

One point, if I may, please?

 

The original Hornby bogies are really awful - much too short. Oddly, or maybe luckily, the depression in the floor pan is designed to take a proper 10' bogie.

 

All I did with these.............

 

 

 

Was to fit Keen System plastic bogies to this pair (the Parlour First has yet to be named here).

 

Other functions include adding curtains (just licks of paint - I don't like the curtains in the later Horny cars; pre-War the cars had blinds, and it was in BR days that they had curtains). I also painted the interiors.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

[thegreenhowards]

Tony,

 

I thought you might say that about the bogies as I know it’s one of your hobbyhorses! I have to say the length really doesn’t bother me. This picture shows the two together. Joan has the correct 10’  wheelbase bogies whereas Car No.77 has the ‘Railroad’ type which I measure at 9’6”. I challenge anyone to spot the difference at speed on the layout. Even side by side it’s difficult to tell the difference in length, although the reduced detail is apparent. What I do find annoying is the indentation by the axles which, I presume, is a relic of the dreadful Triang axles which used to protrude through the plastic. Thankfully mine have proper metal wheels. When I get round to it, I will fill and paint over these indentations.

 

I take the point about curtains - I will paint some on. Actually the biggest issue with this rake is that the three ‘Railroad’ cars don’t have lit table lamps. I’m not a great fan of lit coaches as I tend to think that such things would not be apparent in daylight. But 7 lit and 3 unlit looks strange. So I either need to disconnect the 7 fitted ones or fit out the other three.  I have bought some DCC concepts table lamps to retrofit the ‘Railroad’ examples, so will probably try that first despite my reservations as I’d rather not ‘vandalise’ my ‘super detail’ Pullmans.

 

Regards

 

Andy

 

 

[Tony Wright]

7 hours ago, thegreenhowards said:

Tony,

 

I thought you might say that about the bogies as I know it’s one of your hobbyhorses! I have to say the length really doesn’t bother me. This picture shows the two together. Joan has the correct 10’  wheelbase bogies whereas Car No.77 has the ‘Railroad’ type which I measure at 9’6”. I challenge anyone to spot the difference at speed on the layout. Even side by side it’s difficult to tell the difference in length, although the reduced detail is apparent. What I do find annoying is the indentation by the axles which, I presume, is a relic of the dreadful Triang axles which used to protrude through the plastic. Thankfully mine have proper metal wheels. When I get round to it, I will fill and paint over these indentations.

 

I take the point about curtains - I will paint some on. Actually the biggest issue with this rake is that the three ‘Railroad’ cars don’t have lit table lamps. I’m not a great fan of lit coaches as I tend to think that such things would not be apparent in daylight. But 7 lit and 3 unlit looks strange. So I either need to disconnect the 7 fitted ones or fit out the other three.  I have bought some DCC concepts table lamps to retrofit the ‘Railroad’ examples, so will probably try that first despite my reservations as I’d rather not ‘vandalise’ my ‘super detail’ Pullmans.

 

Regards

 

Andy

 

 

Good morning Andy,

 

I think the indented axle boxes are a relic from those Pullmans' earlier years.

 

Not only that, the side frames are actually too deep, exacerbating the bogies' dumpy, looks, and they make the vehicles ride too high.

 

I agree about some cars having lighting and others not. I just remove the pick-ups from my latest Hornby cars - they act as brakes, anyway!

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Edited June 15, 2023 by Tony Wright
to add something