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27 minutes ago, lezz01 said:

Well done to whoever saved them. It's a shame that so many collections end up that way and a credit to those of us that save them. The problem being that many bereaved families have no clue to their worth and also don't want to be bothered with disposing of collections at a difficult time but just want them out of the way as fast as possible to reduce the painful memories that these collections often evoke. That's why Tony's work in this matter is so important. So many traders are only too willing to rip off the living let alone bereaved families by seriously undervaluing collections.

Regards Lez. 

 

Agreed, also I think there are many wives who are not supportive of their partners interests. Sadly there are countless posts on here to the effect that "I had to smuggle this past 'er indoors".

 

We all know that Mo is hugely supportive of Tony. Luckily Carol is of my endeavours. Recently I have been seriously rationalising railway items that are no longer used plus a 1/43 rally car collection.  There are no secrets and she is fully aware and pleased with what I am 'making' - especially when some of it funds a day out or a meal somewhere!

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3 hours ago, Jack P said:

On the subject of models from deceased estates, I was privileged to see part of a nearly 80 locomotive collection that was (get ready to wince) saved from being thrown in the bin.

 

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The absolute star of the show was this Raven A2. Which of course, is the one I took the worst photos of. 

 

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It's an etched kit, and there was a Proscale marking on the chassis.

There was also both a large and small boiler C1, all finished to similar standards.

Great stuff Jack,

 

Thanks for showing us.

 

How might it have ended up being thrown in the bin?

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

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58 minutes ago, TrevorP1 said:

 

Agreed, also I think there are many wives who are not supportive of their partners interests. Sadly there are countless posts on here to the effect that "I had to smuggle this past 'er indoors".

 

We all know that Mo is hugely supportive of Tony. Luckily Carol is of my endeavours. Recently I have been seriously rationalising railway items that are no longer used plus a 1/43 rally car collection.  There are no secrets and she is fully aware and pleased with what I am 'making' - especially when some of it funds a day out or a meal somewhere!

 

Sue is supportive too.

 

 

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1 hour ago, TrevorP1 said:

 

Agreed, also I think there are many wives who are not supportive of their partners interests. Sadly there are countless posts on here to the effect that "I had to smuggle this past 'er indoors".

 

We all know that Mo is hugely supportive of Tony. Luckily Carol is of my endeavours. Recently I have been seriously rationalising railway items that are no longer used plus a 1/43 rally car collection.  There are no secrets and she is fully aware and pleased with what I am 'making' - especially when some of it funds a day out or a meal somewhere!

Good afternoon Trevor,

 

We're very lucky to have supporting wives/partners, but I've known many 'relationships' where that is not the case. 

 

Some I've come across are, at best, indifferent to what their husband/partner indulges in as a hobby. At its worst, they're positively hostile, begrudging anything from time spent to money spent. 

 

I recall one photo shoot where I inadvertently put down a lens cap on a table, only to be told in the most emphatic way that the item of furniture was a valuable antique! After that, the poor bloke whose layout I was photographing just kept getting it in the neck about a 'house invasion', and why did he want the layout photographing, anyway? She didn't thing much of it, and It was all a waste of time. I left, thinking how lucky I was in my choice of spouse. I almost felt sorry for the bloke, then I thought 'she's your choice'. 

 

He might (though I somehow doubt it) have made subsequent layouts (this was a long time ago), but I've never seen any evidence of them. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

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I too am very fortunate in that my Kimmy is also very supportive of my hobbies and although she doesn't get involved much with my modelling endeavours she shares my interest in both my koi keeping as some of the fish are hers and my efforts at astronomy. She does keep at me to compile a database of all of my models which I must admit I've been a little slack with.

Regards Lez.   

 

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2 hours ago, lezz01 said:

Well done to whoever saved them. It's a shame that so many collections end up that way and a credit to those of us that save them. The problem being that many bereaved families have no clue to their worth and also don't want to be bothered with disposing of collections at a difficult time but just want them out of the way as fast as possible to reduce the painful memories that these collections often evoke. That's why Tony's work in this matter is so important. So many traders are only too willing to rip off the living let alone bereaved families by seriously undervaluing collections.

Regards Lez. 

 

I quite agree - but would add that the other driver that I have seen is that bereaved families may want to get a house sold rapidly so as to cash in on the 'main chance' and in doing so they seem prepared to consign the deceased's valued collection to the skip rather than seek help or advice from others who might realise the true emotional & financial value of it's contents.

Tony

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On 24/04/2023 at 10:14, gr.king said:

Why not repaint them. They were made to be used / enjoyed, not preserved as pristine items in a glass cabinet or in the original immaculate unopened box.

Maybe it is or was easier for a maker to get high quality alloy, free of any risk of zinc pest, when buying it from a respected home manufacturer keen to preserve a good reputation and open to being sued in a proper British court? I also imagine that production of the right kind of alloy may have been easier in some ways before there was general pressure on various manufacturers to include recycled rubbish in their products.

Some H dublo does get mazak rot, but it isn’t universal. Can’t remember the source but it was thinks like workers putting odd bits of wire strapping and the like into the molten vats. Health and safety, what is that!

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32 minutes ago, john new said:

Some H dublo does get mazak rot, but it isn’t universal. Can’t remember the source but it was thinks like workers putting odd bits of wire strapping and the like into the molten vats. Health and safety, what is that!

I'm trying to remember my chemistry.  There was a certain amount of metallurgy on my course and I'm racking my brains.  Happy for someone to pick up any errors, 'cos I'm going back 50 years.  Sheeeesh!

 

Zinc is a fairly stable metal but it will react with acids and does tarnish.  Think iron.  But it forms alloys easily which can vary its properties.  Again think iron and steel.  The mazak family are zinc - aluminium alloys, possibly with copper as well.  A typical alloy is 93% Zn; 4% Al; 3% Cu.  The problem with rot began in the 1920s when lead was tipped into the pot to bulk out the alloy.  Once the problem was discovered, then it was a matter of avoiding the firms that contaminated their alloy.  This was fine when the workers are educated to never add anything to the pot but when production is outsourced to certain parts of the world ..... well, you know the rest.

 

Incidentally there was a comment that rot sets in in a cold climate.  I think this is wrong and heat will accelerate the process.  But I've read that humidity is more relevant; so in Britain at least,  a cold damp climate is worse that a warm dry one.   Hope this helps,  Bill

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1 hour ago, lezz01 said:

 

I too am very fortunate in that my Kimmy is also very supportive of my hobbies and although she doesn't get involved much with my modelling endeavours she shares my interest in both my koi keeping as some of the fish are hers and my efforts at astronomy. She does keep at me to compile a database of all of my models which I must admit I've been a little slack with.

Regards Lez.   

 

My wife is equally supportive, frequently telling me to : "go away and do some modelling!". 🤔

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3 hours ago, lezz01 said:

Well done to whoever saved them. It's a shame that so many collections end up that way and a credit to those of us that save them. The problem being that many bereaved families have no clue to their worth and also don't want to be bothered with disposing of collections at a difficult time but just want them out of the way as fast as possible to reduce the painful memories that these collections often evoke. That's why Tony's work in this matter is so important. So many traders are only too willing to rip off the living let alone bereaved families by seriously undervaluing collections.

Regards Lez. 

Good evening Lez,

 

Thank you for your kind comment.

 

In fairness to traders who might offer less than I might achieve, they have staff to pay, a business to run and (possibly) premises to rent/heat. Mo and I don't run a business, and take no money from any sales (our contribution to the process being our time), only 10% to CRUK.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Edited by Tony Wright
wrong time of day!
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24 minutes ago, bbishop said:

I'm trying to remember my chemistry.  There was a certain amount of metallurgy on my course and I'm racking my brains.  Happy for someone to pick up any errors, 'cos I'm going back 50 years.  Sheeeesh!

 

Zinc is a fairly stable metal but it will react with acids and does tarnish.  Think iron.  But it forms alloys easily which can vary its properties.  Again think iron and steel.  The mazak family are zinc - aluminium alloys, possibly with copper as well.  A typical alloy is 93% Zn; 4% Al; 3% Cu.  The problem with rot began in the 1920s when lead was tipped into the pot to bulk out the alloy.  Once the problem was discovered, then it was a matter of avoiding the firms that contaminated their alloy.  This was fine when the workers are educated to never add anything to the pot but when production is outsourced to certain parts of the world ..... well, you know the rest.

 

Incidentally there was a comment that rot sets in in a cold climate.  I think this is wrong and heat will accelerate the process.  But I've read that humidity is more relevant; so in Britain at least,  a cold damp climate is worse that a warm dry one.   Hope this helps,  Bill

Thanks for this response.  Your post also tallies with my lone example of a Mazac rot HD Model. One of the pre-war tank engines. It is a while since I had the HD out as I retired the demonstration layout a while back so hopefully nothing else has gone down with it.

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3 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Great stuff Jack,

 

Thanks for showing us.

 

How might it have ended up being thrown in the bin?

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 


Tony,

 

Apparently the person handling the estate had contacted multiple parties (here in New Zealand), to no avail, came across my friend by complete chance, and let him know that if he was uninterested, a run to the tip was occurring the next week.

 

It does make me very sad to think that this is probably one instance of many, how many fantastic models have been consigned to the bin, solely because (through no fault of their own) the people dealing with the estate don’t know what they’re looking at! 
 

Jack 

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5 hours ago, lezz01 said:

Well done to whoever saved them. It's a shame that so many collections end up that way and a credit to those of us that save them. The problem being that many bereaved families have no clue to their worth and also don't want to be bothered with disposing of collections at a difficult time but just want them out of the way as fast as possible to reduce the painful memories that these collections often evoke. That's why Tony's work in this matter is so important. So many traders are only too willing to rip off the living let alone bereaved families by seriously undervaluing collections.

Regards Lez. 

Indeed, even allowing for the traders being businesses with costs, there are some who clearly think 1000% is a fair mark-up.  However, those are probably the same ones who pretend to be fellow collectors, not traders and whose tax bill is probably at a rate of nearer 0%....

 

There is also the opposite problem, of families who believe the deceased's collection of 1960s/70s/80s Triang/Hornby/Lima/Mainline/Airfix must be rare and collectible because it's old; they can be very reluctant to accept that those locos are worth a fifth of the cost of a new equivalent, not twice as much.

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2 hours ago, bbishop said:

I'm trying to remember my chemistry.  There was a certain amount of metallurgy on my course and I'm racking my brains.  Happy for someone to pick up any errors, 'cos I'm going back 50 years.  Sheeeesh!

 

Zinc is a fairly stable metal but it will react with acids and does tarnish.  Think iron.  But it forms alloys easily which can vary its properties.  Again think iron and steel.  The mazak family are zinc - aluminium alloys, possibly with copper as well.  A typical alloy is 93% Zn; 4% Al; 3% Cu.  The problem with rot began in the 1920s when lead was tipped into the pot to bulk out the alloy.  Once the problem was discovered, then it was a matter of avoiding the firms that contaminated their alloy.  This was fine when the workers are educated to never add anything to the pot but when production is outsourced to certain parts of the world ..... well, you know the rest.

 

Incidentally there was a comment that rot sets in in a cold climate.  I think this is wrong and heat will accelerate the process.  But I've read that humidity is more relevant; so in Britain at least,  a cold damp climate is worse that a warm dry one.   Hope this helps,  Bill

Is mazak rot related to stress corrosion cracking then?

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45 minutes ago, Northmoor said:

There is also the opposite problem, of families who believe the deceased's collection of 1960s/70s/80s Triang/Hornby/Lima/Mainline/Airfix must be rare and collectible because it's old; they can be very reluctant to accept that those locos are worth a fifth of the cost of a new equivalent, not twice as much.

 

I heard a story recently (told by someone that haunts these pages 🤣) about a very well known layout (that I can't recall the name of...); IIRC the owner had died and the family happened across some paperwork that quoted the Insurance Valuation for Exhibition purposes.

Of course they immediately seized upon this as being "what it's worth" and put it into Auction, no doubt only be disappointed when it didn't sell (or if it did then not for anything like what it's Insurance valuation was).

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I can only base my comment about avaricious traders from my own experience from when I dipped my toe in the water in November last year. Having decided to return to fine scale modelling I wondered how best to dispose of my 00 gauge blue/green period BR stock so after having no bites at all when I offered 2 sound fitted locos and a 3 car DMU in the classified section here I approached a certain trader from Liverpool for a quote for the 3 items. To say I was shocked by their offer for all three would be an understatement as it was far less than I was prepared to accept for one item let alone for the three of them. So I put them up for sale on ebay and lowest price I received for one of them exceeded the paltry offer from the trader for all three by £30 and that was the lowest price achieved. Given what they want for preowned items in their online store I thought they were taking the total micky and will never buy anything from that retailer again. I can only assume that others are little better but I will not be finding out as I have always had great success with both buying and selling on ebay and will continue to use them. 

Regards Lez.       

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52 minutes ago, rodent279 said:

Is mazak rot related to stress corrosion cracking then?

I need to argue this out.  The following is nicked from Wikipedia: "Stress corrosion cracking (SCC) is the growth of crack formation in a corrosive environment.  SCC is highly chemically specific in that certain alloys are likely to undergo SCC only when exposed to a small number of chemical environments. The chemical environment that causes SCC for a given alloy is often one which is only mildly corrosive to the metal."

 

It may be that the creation of mazak rot requires not only lead as an impurity in the alloy but also the presence of water.  If this is correct (and it is only as argument) then yes, it is related to stress corrosion cracking.  

 

Please note the paragraph above is only an argument.  To prove (or disprove) it would require two known contaminated ingots kept in dry and humid conditions and ditto with two known uncontaminated ingots.

 

Ok, 99% of WW correspondents are now bored out of their skulls.  Sorry.  Bill

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2 hours ago, Jack P said:

It does make me very sad to think that this is probably one instance of many, how many fantastic models have been consigned to the bin, solely because (through no fault of their own) the people dealing with the estate don’t know what they’re looking at!

 

I think your assertion can be expanded out into many, many fields;  photographic equipment, clocks, motor cycles, machine tools, model aircraft kits, football shirts (not that I know anything at all about kickball!), stamp collections, photographs etc etc

 

And it goes on in industry too when fabulous archives of drawings, documents, photographs, artefacts etc etc are disposed of carelessly and without thought of their value (both monetary and interest) usually at the command of bean counters who know the cost of storage space but the value of nothing.

 

Alan

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8 minutes ago, PupCam said:

And it goes on in industry too when fabulous archives of drawings, documents, photographs, artefacts etc etc are disposed of carelessly and without thought of their value (both monetary and interest) usually at the command of bean counters who know the cost of storage space but the value of nothing.

Simon Kohler could probably give us chapter and verse on how that happened to Hornby's tooling archive.

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12 minutes ago, PupCam said:

 

And it goes on in industry too when fabulous archives of drawings, documents, photographs, artefacts etc etc are disposed of carelessly and without thought of their value (both monetary and interest) usually at the command of bean counters who know the cost of storage space but the value of nothing.

 

The railway industry has quite a track record over the years too.

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