Wright writes.....

[gr.king]

I mentioned a while ago that I had been hoping to hear from a buyer of some of my resin parts regarding his plan to construct an early-version A2/2 on the latest Hornby Thompson Pacific chassis. I've had no news from him yet, but...

 

For anybody daft enough to wish to know, and possibly intrepid enough to have a go, I have now demonstrated that a model of the "early" A2/2 body not offered by Hornby (shortened Mikado boiler and vee-front cab, with S-curve in running plate further forward at the front of the firebox), put together previously using a chopped Margate A3 body and several of my own resin components, can indeed be made to fit a Hornby Thompson Pacific chassis, but it isn't easy, particularly quick, or straightforward, although maybe less work than adapting a Bachmann Chassis or building a bespoke one. The job might be a little easier if building the body to suit the chassis in the first place, rather than adapting (as I did) a body originally made to fit an altered Bachmann chassis. A neater result under the rear of the boiler barrel may also be possible if you can find a good way to create better undercut along the sides of the cast motor support on the chassis, rather than leaving the sides vertical, so that where they show above the running plate they blend into the "turn-under" of the boiler. With any luck they'll still look okay on my model when painted either black or very dark green.

A summary of what I had to do can be seen mostly on this page:  https://www.lner.info/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2443&p=148225#p148225

Not much point re-posting it all here...

I believe the odds suggest that an A2/1 should be possible by similar means too, cab fitted to body a scale foot further forwards and rear of frames cropped to suit.

Edited March 28, 2023 by gr.king
spelling mistake

[micklner]

10 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Good evening Mick,

 

All DJH's BR Standard kits have etched frames, as well as their kits for Stanier Princess Coronations, Black Fives and Crabs. Quite a few in fact. There are also the GNR Atlantics, plus the Brighton Atlantics. Much more in number than the older kits you mention. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony.

 

P.S. The D49 should have twelve-spoked bogie wheels. Those in your picture look really coarse.

None of which are of a area of interest to me.

 

The usual Bogie wheel comment Tony !!.

 

This is a more recent version with 12 spokes !! All painted and lined by myself. Hornby D49 towing a Bachmann Tender . The Cylinder Drain pipe is now under the step!!.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 28, 2023 by micklner

[Erichill16]

8 hours ago, MJI said:

 

 

I have finished a GRCW 119 Cross Country DMU, no RTR, nearly finished a Swindon 120 Cross Country DMU, still no RTR.

 

Sorry I have failed.

Patience, they will come!

Revolution are doing the class 120 in N gauge.

[Jol Wilkinson]

6 hours ago, Willie Whizz said:

"And if nobody then produces MR Kirtley or Johnson locomotives (to use your example) RTR, we simply cannot seriously expect to see more than a tiny handful of Pre-Grouping MR layouts. Even though the handful we do see are probably going to be very good indeed."

 

I think it will need more than a few pre-group RTR locos before we are likely to see a significant increase in pre-1923 layouts of any specific railway company. So far pre-group rolling stock hasn't also become readily available to match the relatively few locos so far produced, excluding of course the inaccurate generic coaches from Hornby and Hattons.

 

Of course, it really depends on what is thought of as a pre-group layout. It could be argued that you can model a small branch line, but anything comparable to, for example, Cyril Freezer's popular Minories concept couldn't be reasonably achieved in LNWR (my own particular interest), MR, NER or quite a few others at present and in the foreseeable (based on announced current future product introductions) future.

 

As most modellers memories apparently cover the last days of steam up to the modern day, and likewise the majority of RTR models cover that period, then surely that is what the majority of layouts will portray.

[Erichill16]

Further to my earlier post, here’s my Bachmann and Little Engines J11.

I think it’s obvious which is which!

Both require weathering and various other details adding. I’ve only renumbered the Bachmann one so far.

Edited March 27, 2023 by Erichill16
Add final comment

[billbedford]

11 hours ago, t-b-g said:

I remain unconvinced by 3D printing. It takes all the bits of modelling that I enjoy out of the game.

 

But there were plenty of dire etched kits before people got the hang of using computers to generate the artwork. And of course lots of grumpy old blokes who didn't understand why modellers didn't just cut up old oil cans to make their models from. 

C'est la vie

 

[melmoth]

I think one of things that's occurred to me, reading over the last couple of pages, is the "hidden" potential cost of kit built locos if you're depending on paying the market rate for a finish that equals that provided by RTR manufacturers these days. I have several of the reissued NuCast kits of small GWR engines to build and finish. I think they probably each cost me 20/30% more than an equivalent RTR loco would have cost (had an equivalent been available), but I will still have the enjoyment and challenge of putting the things together and making them run. The Great Western is admirably simple when it comes to small engines (as, indeed, most companies were, I suppose), and I am reasonably confident that I'll be able to achieve a finish that will not make my kit built offerings look out of place alongside, say, a Bachmann 57xx or 4575. If however I were thinking of a bigger or more complex locomotive (in terms of detail and livery), I'm not altogether sure that I'd feel confident in my ability to paint/line it as to make the difference between buying a kit or an RTR model worthwhile.

[t-b-g]

1 hour ago, billbedford said:

 

But there were plenty of dire etched kits before people got the hang of using computers to generate the artwork. And of course lots of grumpy old blokes who didn't understand why modellers didn't just cut up old oil cans to make their models from. 

C'est la vie

 

There were and are some very poor kits produced. At least with an etched kit I can make new bits or alter the kit parts. I tend to treat the poor ones as scratchbuilding short cuts. I get even more opportunity to use my soldering iron and my other tools. A while ago I purchased a 3D printed loco body just so I could say that I had tried the new technology. It includes a fault in that the tanks on the loco are too wide. There is no way I can see to alter it. The footplate is also too short and the cab roof is much too thick. Plus the whole thing is covered in small but noticeable layering lines. So it is getting chucked away and I will scratchbuild it instead, as no etched or cast kit is available. And I will really enjoy the process.

[Tony Wright]

12 hours ago, t-b-g said:

 

I have seen some locos that you have painted and lined yourself and they are better than most can do. I would be quite happy with locos painted and lined to your standard. I might be wrong but I will guess that you probably don't enjoy painting as much as you do building, so you prefer to trade off some time building locos for others in return for having yours painted by somebody else.

 

That way, you get to spend more of your time doing what you enjoy most, rather than something you don't enjoy as much.

Good morning Tony,

 

Your comments are very kind; thank you.

 

However, to illustrate my point about not being able to paint to a professional standard, may I offer the following images, please? (Probably seen before, but in a different context).

 

 

I scratch-built this K4 over 40 years ago, painting it all myself using sables, enamels and transfer lining (note that the wheels are not lined - beyond my capabilities).

 

 

As a 'layout loco', I suppose it's tolerable. 

 

In contrast...........

 

 

 

Ian Rathbone's rendition of LNER green on this ACE P2 I built for Mark Allatt. No transfer lining here (other than the boiler bands which are hand-lined on to transfer paper). Note how the wheels are lined. (The colour cast was caused by the NEC's odd lighting).

 

 

Geoff Haynes' rendition of LNER green on this DJH A2 I built for Jesse Sim. Again, all hand-lined (with transfer boiler bands hand-lined on to transfer paper). Wheels also lined.

 

 

It took a brave man to weather it!

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

[Tony Wright]

11 hours ago, micklner said:

None of which are of a area of interest to me.

 

The usual Bogie wheel comment Tony !!.

 

This is a more recent version with 12 spokes !! All painted and lined by myself. Hornby D49 towing a Bachmann Tender . The Cylinder Drain pipe is now under the step!!.

 

 

 

 

 

A very nice job, Mick; highly creditable. There's no way I could line to that standard, especially all the single red 'piping' on the tender frames and valences. As for my lining the wheels - no chance!

 

With regard to DJH kits, I still think you're unfair. You cite some really old ones you've built as being poor (fair enough) suggesting that they're in the majority (when, in fact, they're very much in the minority), but when I list those which have much better frames (and I neglected to mention the 8F), you say they're of no interest to you.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Edited March 28, 2023 by Tony Wright
to add something

[thegreenhowards]

On 24/03/2023 at 08:37, MJI said:

Only knew one football fan when young  all i can remember was a change in bag colour as he changed team from one random northern to another.

He clearly wasn’t a proper football fan then, as proper fans don't change teams!

 

I say this as my own childhood choice sinks towards the third tier, but I will still be there at every home game next season.

[t-b-g]

11 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Good morning Tony,

 

Your comments are very kind; thank you.

 

However, to illustrate my point about not being able to paint to a professional standard, may I offer the following images, please? (Probably seen before, but in a different context).

 

 

I scratch-built this K4 over 40 years ago, painting it all myself using sables, enamels and transfer lining (note that the wheels are not lined - beyond my capabilities).

 

 

As a 'layout loco', I suppose it's tolerable. 

 

In contrast...........

 

 

 

Ian Rathbone's rendition of LNER green on this ACE P2 I built for Mark Allatt. No transfer lining here (other than the boiler bands which are hand-lined on to transfer paper). Note how the wheels are lined. (The colour cast was caused by the NEC's odd lighting).

 

 

Geoff Haynes' rendition of LNER green on this DJH A2 I built for Jesse Sim. Again, all hand-lined (with transfer boiler bands hand-lined on to transfer paper). Wheels also lined.

 

 

It took a brave man to weather it!

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

 

If I had painted and lined that K4 I would be very happy with my work. It looks a bit more than tolerable to me.

 

You don't need to worry about lining wheels for 1957/8 period. BR period livery is a lot easier than LNER. It is all "cowpat" green or black with much simpler lining.

 

I can understand why locos you build for others might go to professionals but for your own "layout loco" approach, I would say that your painting and lining is up to the task.

 

[thegreenhowards]

Just catching up on this thread after a few days away - a lot of reading!

 

I chose the transition era not because I remember it as a kid (too young), but because Deltics and 40s were my first loves and I wanted to include steam. I also hate 47s, so my period finishes in 1962 just before the first 47 arrived at Finsbury Park!

 

In O gauge, where I spend the majority of my time now, I’m modelling Glenfinnan station in the 1970s/ 80s (https://www.rmweb.co.uk/topic/173956-glenfinnan-station-in-o-gauge/). That gets round the 47 problem (they weren’t allowed) and allows me to run steam on the Jacobite. I will probably also run it in 1950/60s and possibly even 1930s guise as the infrastructure didn’t really change.

 

Andy

 

[micklner]

11 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

A very nice job, Mick; highly creditable. There's no way I could line to that standard, especially all the single red 'piping' on the tender frames and valences. As for my lining the wheels - no chance!

 

With regard to DJH kits, I still think you're unfair. You cite some really old ones you've built as being poor (fair enough) suggesting that they're in the majority (when, in fact, they're very much in the minority), but when I list those which have much better frames (and I neglected to mention the 8F), you say they're of no interest to you.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Yes , but how  can I comment if they are any good , when they are of zero interest to myself. I will leave that to others who have built them to make comments.

 

As to the ones I have built yes they are old , most however are still listed for sale. There is no excuse for DJH still selling them today at premium prices with zero improvements since whenever they came out , no idea when that was sometime in the 1970/1980's.

 

I suggest people  read their listings/description of their kits, on here. They can then make their own minds up.

 

 

https://www.djhmodelloco.co.uk/product-category/kits/oo-gauge-kits/

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[MJI]

1 hour ago, thegreenhowards said:

He clearly wasn’t a proper football fan then, as proper fans don't change teams!

 

I say this as my own childhood choice sinks towards the third tier, but I will still be there at every home game next season.

 

 

I have no idea, we just wondered why his bag changed colour.

 

And why football.

 

Perhaps he did not like the first bag team. I don't know nearly 50 years ago.

[Dunsignalling]

4 minutes ago, MJI said:

 

 

I have no idea, we just wondered why his bag changed colour.

 

And why football.

 

Perhaps he did not like the first bag team. I don't know nearly 50 years ago.

Maybe he wasn't into football at all and had just been given a bag that someone else  didn't want any more...

[Barry Ten]

2 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Good morning Tony,

 

Your comments are very kind; thank you.

 

However, to illustrate my point about not being able to paint to a professional standard, may I offer the following images, please? (Probably seen before, but in a different context).

 

 

I scratch-built this K4 over 40 years ago, painting it all myself using sables, enamels and transfer lining (note that the wheels are not lined - beyond my capabilities).

 

 

As a 'layout loco', I suppose it's tolerable. 

 

In contrast...........

 

 

 

Ian Rathbone's rendition of LNER green on this ACE P2 I built for Mark Allatt. No transfer lining here (other than the boiler bands which are hand-lined on to transfer paper). Note how the wheels are lined. (The colour cast was caused by the NEC's odd lighting).

 

 

Geoff Haynes' rendition of LNER green on this DJH A2 I built for Jesse Sim. Again, all hand-lined (with transfer boiler bands hand-lined on to transfer paper). Wheels also lined.

 

 

It took a brave man to weather it!

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

 

You've made these comparisons between your painting, and commissioned painting, before, Tony, as if your efforts were markedly inferior to the professional jobs. Perhaps it's the fact of looking at images on a screen, rather than in the flesh, but I rarely see a jarring difference - more like 8/10 versus 10/10, if that. Sometimes I've struggled to see a differece in quality at all. This isn't to knock the professional work, at all, but I suspect a lifeltime of studying and photographing models at close inspection has made you hyper-critical of the smallest imperfection in your own work.

[Geep7]

On the multiple unit front, I do think it's a shame that the DC-Kits range is no longer available (they do pop up on e-bay every so often, usually finishing at eye-watering prices), as it's left a bit of a hole in the market for all these EMU's, DMU's and DEMU's that the r-t-r manufacturers are unlikely to go near in the current climate. Having almost finished a 2-Hap EMU, which i've really enjoyed building, I'd dearly love to get hold of a Class 120 and an Oxted 3D kit.

[jwealleans]

3 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

It took a brave man to weather it!

 

It did, but he's made a fine job of it.   I thought it looked especially good here:

 

 

That said, I have a couple of Larry Goddard paint jobs which will never see weathering.

 

 

 

[MJI]

2 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

Maybe he wasn't into football at all and had just been given a bag that someone else  didn't want any more...

 

He did like it. He was the only football fan any of us knew.

Edited March 28, 2023 by MJI

[MJI]

1 hour ago, Barry Ten said:

 

You've made these comparisons between your painting, and commissioned painting, before, Tony, as if your efforts were markedly inferior to the professional jobs. Perhaps it's the fact of looking at images on a screen, rather than in the flesh, but I rarely see a jarring difference - more like 8/10 versus 10/10, if that. Sometimes I've struggled to see a differece in quality at all. This isn't to knock the professional work, at all, but I suspect a lifeltime of studying and photographing models at close inspection has made you hyper-critical of the smallest imperfection in your own work.

 

I think my work looks shoddy, then step back a bit and it is fine, you see a lot more issues under 500mm or ona close up photo.

[MJI]

56 minutes ago, Geep7 said:

On the multiple unit front, I do think it's a shame that the DC-Kits range is no longer available (they do pop up on e-bay every so often, usually finishing at eye-watering prices), as it's left a bit of a hole in the market for all these EMU's, DMU's and DEMU's that the r-t-r manufacturers are unlikely to go near in the current climate. Having almost finished a 2-Hap EMU, which i've really enjoyed building, I'd dearly love to get hold of a Class 120 and an Oxted 3D kit.

 

Money for years (not enough spare), then they stopped making them, so only got 101 and 128.

 

That said the 119 and 120 used Mark 1 size windows, not Swindon DMU sized windows. Not sure what size 119 are but the Worsley etch appears slightly too large.

 

All the Swindon have same size windows and body profile. (similar to Hawksworth).

 

I think apart from the single cars and their trailers, I only need 123 and 103.

 

 

Edited March 28, 2023 by MJI

[polybear]

3 minutes ago, MJI said:

 

Money for years (not enough spare), then they stopped making them, so only got 101 and 128.

 

I seem to recall a big problem at DC Kits a few years ago - a fire maybe?  Perhaps the tooling was so damaged it wasn't practical/cost effective to start up again?  Or does my memory need a reboot?

[Tony Wright]

3 hours ago, micklner said:

Yes , but how  can I comment if they are any good , when they are of zero interest to myself. I will leave that to others who have built them to make comments.

 

As to the ones I have built yes they are old , most however are still listed for sale. There is no excuse for DJH still selling them today at premium prices with zero improvements since whenever they came out , no idea when that was sometime in the 1970/1980's.

 

I suggest people  read their listings/description of their kits, on here. They can then make their own minds up.

 

 

https://www.djhmodelloco.co.uk/product-category/kits/oo-gauge-kits/

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Good afternoon Mick,

 

But you do make (sweeping) comments about DJH kits.........

 

'DJH are by far the worse UK ones still being or attempting to be sold to buyers. The vast majority of their OO range has been around for 40 years? or more , and have had nothing ot little done in that time to improve them . Slab brass frames, poor detail and low quality castings in general and very expensive.'

 

Your post from a couple of pages back; a lot of which is patently untrue.  

 

Looking at the DJH listing you posted, about 90% of the kits there are much-improved from the ones you cited, all having etched brass frames (with brakes). I accept your comments (probably) relate to those older, Banbury-days' kits, but you don't qualify that fact. 

 

Obviously, it's well-known that I have worked closely with DJH down the years (many, if not most, of the images in their catalogue illustrate locomotives I've built from their range). So, having test-built for the firm, written instructions for the kits and having photographed most of the range, one might say I have a vested interest in 'praising them'. Be that as it may, I still think your (unqualified) comments are unfair and potentially damaging to DJH products. May I suggest you be more careful in some of your writings, please? Had you pointed out that your comment above was with reference to kits made originally (more than) 40 years ago, then it might have had some credence, but 'slab brass frames, poor detail and low quality castings' are certainly not present in any of their kits produced (new) from the mid-'70s. 

 

It could well be that some of those older kits (the likes of the D20 and Z, for instance) need bringing up to modern standards (etched frames and so on). In that respect, I agree with you, but not in your (sweeping) statement above. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

Edited March 28, 2023 by Tony Wright
to add something

[Geep7]

9 minutes ago, polybear said:

 

I seem to recall a big problem at DC Kits a few years ago - a fire maybe?  Perhaps the tooling was so damaged it wasn't practical/cost effective to start up again?  Or does my memory need a reboot?

I remember they had a fire in the workshop area iirc. I know Charlie did say afterwards that he might try to dig out the tools to produce bodyshell kits if it was cost effective to do so. The fact this hasn't happened would point towards the fact that it's not worthwhile doing for DC Kits currently, if at all.