Wright writes.....

[Compound2632]

2 minutes ago, JamesSpooner said:

What is also strange, looking at this photo a little more closely, is the nearest third (?) compartment, which seems to be placed at the very end of the carriage, with no space for a vestibule.  If it was originally a corridor coach (as looks likely from the style), how was the vestibule fitted in?

 

Could it have been a gangwayed open coach?

[John Isherwood]

45 minutes ago, t-b-g said:

The attached photo turned up on the internet the other day and I have asked (and been given) permission to post it here by the photographer, Derek Buckett. He took the photo at Carlisle Upperby on 31st July 1966.

 

 

I was a bit intrigued by the arrangement of the compartments and windows at the end nearest the loco. Clearly now in Departmental use, it really doesn't look as if there would have been enough room for another compartment where the pair of windows are, just after the first compartment. So was it always like that? I wondered if it might have been a rarity from the Flying Scotsman set or suchlike, or has it just been altered from a more conventional carriage?

 

I am no expert on LNER or ex LNER carriages but it isn't an arrangement I am familiar with. I thought the assembled LNER enthusiasts might be able to identify the vehicle.

 

I am sure somebody on here will know.

 

Cheers

 

Tony

 

 

 

I think we should consult a certain Mr. Mortimore of this parish - he will certainly be able to analyse how this cut-and-shut was undertaken. 😄

 

He may even have had a hand in it ..... ?

 

CJI.

[Compound2632]

43 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

He may even have had a hand in it ..... ?

 

No, not one of his. It's been painted.

[Tony Wright]

I'm afraid I'm stumped as to that LNER carriage in Departmental use. I'd suggest it's clearly been altered from its original diagram. 

 

I've been concentrating on other things today..........

 

 

Namely examining Hornby's latest TT:120 train set. 

 

The (beautiful) artwork on the presentation box depicts the A1 in original condition, with tall cab and fully-rectangular buffer beam (yet the chimney looks squat).

 

 

Yet the actual loco has the lowered cab, and cut-outs in the buffer beam. It's also got long travel valves, but a tall chimney. A bit of a puzzle............

 

Methinks some bedtime reading research is called for! 

 

Whatever, it is superbly-finished and runs beautifully. 

 

I'll show the Pullman cars in the set tomorrow. By 1927, they were allocated to the Southern. 

Edited January 18, 2023 by Tony Wright
to add something

[stewartingram]

Didn't some of the Gresley coaches have a half-compartment? ie only a seat at one side, and a blank wall the other? I'm sure as a nipper I can remember riding in one from Liverpool St. to Cambridge in the mid 50s.

[mark54]

The departmental coach looks like a BCK (with 2 first class and 2 second class compartments), and the end second class compartment and toilet compartment have been modified to the arrangement seen.

[Jon4470]

I think that the departmental carriage is a Brake composite (originally). I’m going to take a punt at at it being a Diagram 34. 

 

Working from the far end. The van portion has had one set of double doors replaced with an inset arrangement (roller doors?, sliding door?). Then, in the carriage section there is a toilet window followed by two first class compartments. In the original carriage the next two compartments would have been third class; and then there would have been a toilet at the nearest end.

 

My thoughts about the modifications are as follows. The end (third class) toilet has been removed and the end third class compartment door has been moved so that it replaces the toilet window. The new double window replaces the old compartment door and one compartment window.

I’m assuming that the reason for the modification was to create a larger (mess?) compartment in place of the two third class compartments. Replacement panels for the lower half of the body would have been available from other Gresley carriages being scrapped.

 

Obviously a lot of supposition involved in this…….so I could be completely wrong!

 

Jon

 

[Pint of Adnams]

13 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

I have,

 

As intimated, the hardest part will be keeping my list down to 30 layouts representing the three decades of BRM's existence. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Did you ever get around to photographing Dunwich? It was a fictional location but as it happens there were proposals by the GER to build a standard gauge branch to Southwold, leaving the East Suffolk line at Saxmundham but running just a little away from the coast at Dunwich.

 

I have the GER plans and showed them to Geoff Kent during a visit to Retford a while back.

[St Enodoc]

5 hours ago, stewartingram said:

Didn't some of the Gresley coaches have a half-compartment? ie only a seat at one side, and a blank wall the other? I'm sure as a nipper I can remember riding in one from Liverpool St. to Cambridge in the mid 50s.

On the Southern we called those coupé compartments.

[Pint of Adnams]

7 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

On the Southern we called those coupé compartments.

As did the LNER...

[Tony Wright]

16 hours ago, Pint of Adnams said:

Did you ever get around to photographing Dunwich? It was a fictional location but as it happens there were proposals by the GER to build a standard gauge branch to Southwold, leaving the East Suffolk line at Saxmundham but running just a little away from the coast at Dunwich.

 

I have the GER plans and showed them to Geoff Kent during a visit to Retford a while back.

I did photograph it, but not as Dunwich.

 

I think it was rebranded Ufford after it was sold, and converted to P4. At a stroke, one of the finest running layouts (in EM) turned into one that wouldn't run at all; it's the only layout I've ever photographed (which was switched on) where I could not move the trains into position without them stalling, derailing or just not working. 

 

Norman Solomon (who made/re-laid all the track) said the 'geometry' wouldn't work that well, especially after two more junctions had been added. But, he just carried out the commission. In fairness to him, some of the locos/stock were very poor runners (despite being made by a 'name' in the hobby - the new owner was a 'commissioner' of models, often classed as a 'chequebook modeller'). 

 

What happened to it, I have no idea, but it featured in the MRJ some years ago. The new owner must have been dreadfully disappointed. I questioned him at the time why he wanted to alter Dunwich (given its running pedigree - none better at it than Roy Jackson, Geoff Kent and John Phillips), but he thought P4 'looked so much better'. When I asked Roy about it, one can imagine his reactions with regard to the new owner and the stock-builder; and even Norman Solomon!

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Edited January 19, 2023 by Tony Wright
typo error

[gr.king]

14 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

I'm afraid I'm stumped as to that LNER carriage in Departmental use. I'd suggest it's clearly been altered from its original diagram. 

 

I've been concentrating on other things today..........

 

 

Namely examining Hornby's latest TT:120 train set. 

 

The (beautiful) artwork on the presentation box depicts the A1 in original condition, with tall cab and fully-rectangular buffer beam (yet the chimney looks squat).

 

 

Yet the actual loco has the lowered cab, and cut-outs in the buffer beam. It's also got long travel valves, but a tall chimney. A bit of a puzzle............

 

Methinks some bedtime reading research is called for! 

 

Whatever, it is superbly-finished and runs beautifully. 

 

I'll show the Pullman cars in the set tomorrow. By 1927, they were allocated to the Southern. 

Look at the huge size of the wheel flanges and the joints in the valve gear. What would they scale up to in OO, or worse still, full size?

[SD85]

On 18/01/2023 at 08:11, Tony Wright said:

I have,

 

As intimated, the hardest part will be keeping my list down to 30 layouts representing the three decades of BRM's existence. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

Can I put in a shout out for a couple that turned up in the late 90s - Swan Street (I think that was the name?) which was a 60s Liverpool layout with a shunting yard and a low level cutting, and Albion Street (I believe the builder posts on these forums). Both very atmospheric. North Foreland (1996) was another good one too, and also from that year were Highgrove (effective 2mm scale branch line) and Minima Bay (which was made by the guy who produced College Models kits).

Edited January 19, 2023 by SD85

[SD85]

On the subject of coaches, am I right in thinking that no one makes any kit or RTR model of an LSWR Ironclad at present?

 

I would like to model the Guildford breakdown train as it was in the 60s and while Bachmann do the crane and the brake van is sourceable via kit/RTR, the mess coach for that era seems to have been a converted Ironclad and I'm beginning to think it may require scratchbuilding.

[Tony Wright]

9 minutes ago, gr.king said:

Look at the huge size of the wheel flanges and the joints in the valve gear. What would they scale up to in OO, or worse still, full size?

Good morning Graeme,

 

In fairness, the picture is at least half as big again as the real thing. 

 

I think what many 'modellers' forget is that they are in a minority in this hobby. Well over 90% of RTR models (in my experience) are sold to those who just like to 'run trains', often on trackwork which is laid on the floor, picked-up, re-laid again, or fixed to boards in a 'not very well' fashion'. The RTR manufacturers have to cater for this (in all scales and gauges); can you imagine the uproar if RTR stuff fell off all the time? No, the RTR bods cannot win. 

 

Anyway, if overscale flanges and chunky valve gear offend (the latter often used as a device for picking-up models!), then these can be replaced/altered by the 'modeller'. On the (very) few RTR OO steam-outline locos I've got, the first thing I do (if appropriate) is to replace the bogie/pony wheels with 'proper' ones'. Some time ago, I 'thinned-down' the valve gear on a Bachmann A4, with startling results. 

 

One question to finish, if I may? Could you (or any other 'normal' human being) match the quality of the livery? I know I couldn't!

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Tony Wright]

9 minutes ago, SD85 said:

 

Can I put in a shout out for a couple that turned up in the late 90s - Swan Street (I think that was the name?) which was a 60s Liverpool layout with a shunting yard and a low level cutting, and Albion Street (I believe the builder posts on these forums). Both very atmospheric. North Foreland (1996) was another good one too, and also from that year were Highgrove (effective 2mm scale branch line) and Minima Bay (which was made by the guy who produced College Models kits).

Good morning,

 

The list has to 'exclusive' to those layouts I've photographed.

 

'Unfortunately', North Foreland was shot on transparency, and all of those were discarded by BRM a decade ago during an office clear-out! 

 

I have no images of any of the others you mention (as far as I can recall).

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[SD85]

Thanks. Thought it worth a try anyway.

 

I was sure you'd photographed Albion Street though? I'll have to find the article.

 

One layout I think you definitely did photograph was Littlehaven Harbour which was a quite compact Sussex urban seaside terminus. I liked that one too.

Edited January 19, 2023 by SD85

[Barry Ten]

19 minutes ago, SD85 said:

Thanks. Thought it worth a try anyway.

 

I was sure you'd photographed Albion Street though? I'll have to find the article.

 

One layout I think you definitely did photograph was Littlehaven Harbour which was a quite compact Sussex urban seaside terminus. I liked that one too.

 

Are you thinking of PMP's Albion Yard? 2010s rather than 90s, if it's the same one.

[Flying Pig]

21 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Good morning Graeme,

 

In fairness, the picture is at least half as big again as the real thing. 

 

I think what many 'modellers' forget is that they are in a minority in this hobby. Well over 90% of RTR models (in my experience) are sold to those who just like to 'run trains', often on trackwork which is laid on the floor, picked-up, re-laid again, or fixed to boards in a 'not very well' fashion'. The RTR manufacturers have to cater for this (in all scales and gauges); can you imagine the uproar if RTR stuff fell off all the time? No, the RTR bods cannot win. 

 

Anyway, if overscale flanges and chunky valve gear offend (the latter often used as a device for picking-up models!), then these can be replaced/altered by the 'modeller'. On the (very) few RTR OO steam-outline locos I've got, the first thing I do (if appropriate) is to replace the bogie/pony wheels with 'proper' ones'. Some time ago, I 'thinned-down' the valve gear on a Bachmann A4, with startling results. 

 

One question to finish, if I may? Could you (or any other 'normal' human being) match the quality of the livery? I know I couldn't!

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

Furthermore, the scale is closer to UK N than 00, so perhaps that would be a fairer comparison.  British N gauge steam has if anything even chunkier wheels and valve gear, pro rata the smaller size.

 

Continental manufacturers manage finer valve gear in small scales by using moulded plastic (see for example this TT scale 01 by Tillig), but I doubt that would have the robustness expected by UK customers. The wheel profile is distinctly nicer than Hornby's too.

 

 

[Jesse Sim]

On 15/01/2023 at 01:29, Tony Wright said:

 

 

 

A Raven A2. I built this from a DJH kit, with a South Eastern Finecast eight-wheeled tender.

 

Geoff Haynes painted it (he later repainted the tops of the front frames lined-green, as they should be).

 

I now runs on Woolmer Green, Jesse Sim's layout in Australia.

 

I’m afraid she’s a much dirtier looking A2 now. I was worried about weathering her but decided on just getting stuck into it. Considering for my timeline she was at the end of her working life she still looks almost presentable but definitely tired. 
 

 

 

If you can’t tell I’m trying to work out where the best position for lights behind a camera are…..

 

 

 

I also carried out a conversation of sort to an A1 using Al Turner of Niu Models brilliant ACFI Gear. She just needs a weather and it too will  be ready for service on Woolmer Green. 
 

[SD85]

1 hour ago, Barry Ten said:

 

Are you thinking of PMP's Albion Yard? 2010s rather than 90s, if it's the same one.

 

No, I think it was definitely called Albion Street. P4 scale freight yard (track plan lifted from Iain Rice's Butley Mills) set in the York area in the 60s. 

[coronach]

12 minutes ago, SD85 said:

 

No, I think it was definitely called Albion Street. P4 scale freight yard (track plan lifted from Iain Rice's Butley Mills) set in the York area in the 60s. 

JohnofYork61 is the RMWeb member who constructed Albion St.  He is currently constructing a gauge 0 equivalent in the same baseboard footprint

[MJI]

3 hours ago, SD85 said:

On the subject of coaches, am I right in thinking that no one makes any kit or RTR model of an LSWR Ironclad at present?

 

I would like to model the Guildford breakdown train as it was in the 60s and while Bachmann do the crane and the brake van is sourceable via kit/RTR, the mess coach for that era seems to have been a converted Ironclad and I'm beginning to think it may require scratchbuilding.

 

Plans in 1978 or 79 MRC AFAIR

[Tony Wright]

1 hour ago, Jesse Sim said:

I’m afraid she’s a much dirtier looking A2 now. I was worried about weathering her but decided on just getting stuck into it. Considering for my timeline she was at the end of her working life she still looks almost presentable but definitely tired. 
 

 

 

If you can’t tell I’m trying to work out where the best position for lights behind a camera are…..

 

 

 

I also carried out a conversation of sort to an A1 using Al Turner of Niu Models brilliant ACFI Gear. She just needs a weather and it too will  be ready for service on Woolmer Green. 
 

Good afternoon Jesse,

 

It's your model, so do what you please with it. Actually, the A2 looks quite natural, though I doubt if I'd have weathered a pro-paint job to the same extent. 

 

THE WHITE KNIGHT looks interesting. I think there's a similar conversion on Grantham...............

 

 

There is, but this is the other one, SHOTOVER.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

[Tony Wright]

1 hour ago, SD85 said:

 

No, I think it was definitely called Albion Street. P4 scale freight yard (track plan lifted from Iain Rice's Butley Mills) set in the York area in the 60s. 

I think the layout in question was built by John Shaw, of York.

 

Wracking my ever-crumbling memory, if that's the case I did take one or two transparencies of it at one York Show. The problem is, they've now been lost!

 

Regards,

 

Tony.