Wright writes.....

[LNERandBR]

1 hour ago, Chamby said:

 

Tony, removing the chips is usually straightforward and you should be able to preserve them.  Try to leave the wires attached to the chip and re-wire the loco if necessary, so snip the wires leaving a length attached to the chip, rather than unsolder wires from the chip itself.  Orange and grey will go to the motor, red and black to the pick-ups.  All the other wires are used for working lights, stay-alive, firebox flicker etc. which often aren’t fitted, so those wires are probably just hanging off the chip.

 

If a sound chip is fitted, there will be an additional two wires of the same colour for the speaker, often brown (ESU) or purple (Zimo).  Again you can just snip these if necessary, leaving a length still attached to the chip.

 

If the chip has a protective plastic coating attached to it, and the coating is glued rather than the chip itself, you might be able to remove it intact.  Otherwise the chip might have to be sacrificed.  

 

 

I agree here. Though I would say disconnecting the wires at the Motor and Pickup end would be a good idea. At least you then know which goes where if the original installer has decided to use different wire colours.

 

Quite why someone would glue it in is byond me, what would you do if you wanted to swap it? Therefore leaveing the decoder in position but unwireing it sounds the easiest way forward.

[Tony Wright]

2 hours ago, Chamby said:

 

Tony, removing the chips is usually straightforward and you should be able to preserve them.  Try to leave the wires attached to the chip and re-wire the loco if necessary, so snip the wires leaving a length attached to the chip, rather than unsolder wires from the chip itself.  Orange and grey will go to the motor, red and black to the pick-ups.  All the other wires are used for working lights, stay-alive, firebox flicker etc. which often aren’t fitted, so those wires are probably just hanging off the chip.

 

If a sound chip is fitted, there will be an additional two wires of the same colour for the speaker, often brown (ESU) or purple (Zimo).  Again you can just snip these if necessary, leaving a length still attached to the chip.

 

If the chip has a protective plastic coating attached to it, and the coating is glued rather than the chip itself, you might be able to remove it intact.  Otherwise the chip might have to be sacrificed.  

 

Thanks Phil,

 

Your erudite post has convinced me even more to never go down the DCC route. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Tony Wright]

2 hours ago, cctransuk said:

 

Tony,

 

I can relate to the person in question. Presumably, he had bought the loco as something he could use, rather than as a showcase model about which he could 'name-drop' its 'provenance'.

 

He needed / preferred to have it in unlined black, and had done the repaint himself to the best of his ability. In your own favourite expression, it was 'his' - and he valued it for that, rather than for any perceived 'provenance'.

 

I'm not sure why model builders sign their work - surely it is something of an affectation? There are excellent artisans in many fields of endeavour, and we employ them to do a job better than we could do ourselves, or simply because we haven't the time to do so. We pay them their due, but we don't expect them to apply their mark to the finished job.

 

John Isherwood.

Good afternoon John,

 

I've never been described as having 'something of an affectation'. Still, more strings to my bow. 

 

Why do I sign my work? One: because I've been asked to by my customers. Two: because every locomotive I've made on commission is guaranteed for the rest of my life. Only once has this guarantee been called upon (so far). After 10 years of daily use, a Mashima motor I'd fitted to a loco gave up. The model (a 'King') came back to me and I replaced the motor. I charged for the motor (I can't guarantee components), but not for my time. That's the nature of my guarantee. If a loco comes back to me where any means of identifying it have been removed (the loco in question?), then that guarantee is immediately invalid, even if I recognise it as my work. Three: it's my experience that where a model has a provenance (usually meaning it's signed) then, say, in the case of my finding it a new home after a bereavement, then (if the builder is well-known) it has a far greater resale value (very important to a grieving family). The near-80 Lawrence/Goddard carriages I sold of late is a testament to that. Granted, I didn't ask the sort of individual prices being asked on eBay for such items (because I sold so many to two particular individuals), but their provenance was particularly important. 

 

If all my explanation above smacks of an affectation, then so be it.

 

Regards,

 

Tony.  

[Barry Ten]

1 hour ago, Tony Wright said:

Thanks Phil,

 

Your erudite post has convinced me even more to never go down the DCC route. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

DCC: Doesn't Convince Cestrians.

[cctransuk]

2 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Good afternoon John,

 

I've never been described as having 'something of an affectation'. Still, more strings to my bow. 

 

Why do I sign my work? One: because I've been asked to by my customers. Two: because every locomotive I've made on commission is guaranteed for the rest of my life. Only once has this guarantee been called upon (so far). After 10 years of daily use, a Mashima motor I'd fitted to a loco gave up. The model (a 'King') came back to me and I replaced the motor. I charged for the motor (I can't guarantee components), but not for my time. That's the nature of my guarantee. If a loco comes back to me where any means of identifying it have been removed (the loco in question?), then that guarantee is immediately invalid, even if I recognise it as my work. Three: it's my experience that where a model has a provenance (usually meaning it's signed) then, say, in the case of my finding it a new home after a bereavement, then (if the builder is well-known) it has a far greater resale value (very important to a grieving family). The near-80 Lawrence/Goddard carriages I sold of late is a testament to that. Granted, I didn't ask the sort of individual prices being asked on eBay for such items (because I sold so many to two particular individuals), but their provenance was particularly important. 

 

If all my explanation above smacks of an affectation, then so be it.

 

Regards,

 

Tony.  

 

Tony,

 

No offence intended - I merely felt that your comments concerning provenance and devaluing were slightly at odds with your ethos of 'having a go' and pride in achievement, regardless of the results.

 

.... but then I have never been bothered by the 'value' of a model - I build and buy 'em to run 'em! 😊

 

CJI.

[john new]

On 13/03/2022 at 14:01, john new said:

 

Update on loading a timber wagon with overhang.

 

Despite the delay since the above post matters have progressed. As a follow up to assessing the photograph of planks coming off a vessel in Hull Docks I cut several coffee stirrers into various scale lengths in a range between 20ft and 30ft. I then loaded this model which appears to be appropriate, a 12T general merchandise open* following the guidance on p26 of the BR/BTC booklet BR 20426. This was downloaded from http://www.barrowmoremrg.co.uk , an excellent resource for which thanks are offered. I also hope the selected barrier wagon is appropriate.

 

From Diagram 16, the associated table and related notes the following can be gleaned:

1)     Any load for this wagon over 25ft 6” would not be permitted. (Note 2)

2)     The maximum load must have an 8” clear drop from the wagon’s top edge at the non-overhanging end. (In the diagram)

3)     Due to the maximum permitted overhang of 8ft for a load of mixed lengths a 25ft plank will fit (Note 1) - measured on the model, does fit within 32mm of the body.

4)     For the 8ft overhang the load must not exceed set tonnages variable according to the chassis material (steel or wood), else the maximum overhang reduces - Data in the Table. (NB This is the one currently unresolved matter as I don’t know enough about the weights of timber.)

 

In the photo the too long 27, 28 and 30ft lengths are shown in front, although other photos suggest that for internal use within Hull docks the BR overhang limits may have been ignored.

 

A remaining uncertainty; in the BFI movie of 1963 on improving Hull Docks the moving train loaded with timber has it loaded in battered reddish looking wagons (vac fitted?) not grey.

 

As an interim stage before doing weathering etc., this looks like my guidance version: other works to this pair of wagons will include fitting sprat & winkles, making it a permanently coupled pair, and then roping on the load.

 

Comments welcome.

 

*R-T-R Oxford Rail.

 

 

A while since I found any information relevant to this slow progress project and whether such timber loads were sheeted or not: 

 

This photo identified as Windsor Street, Birmingham, Goods Yard circa 1903* shows that the wagons with planked timber were loaded with varying lengths and sheeted within the length of the wagon but had no sheeting over their overhanging end. Trunk timbers were unsheeted. That is at odds with a 1963 BFI film of Hull Docks  showing a train load of plank timber leaving Hull Docks unsheeted (See circa 12 mins in), however, the destination of that train isn't stated so may have only been a very short haul trip within the Hull area.

 

My own feeling is that custom and practice would mean the loading styles staying fairly constant over time until the container revolution changed dock work. If people find more photos of overhanging timber in trains please let me know.

 

NB Only links to the photo and film given for copyright considerations.

 

* Link now updated - thank you @Compound2632

Edited September 28, 2022 by john new
First image link revised to a more accurate source.

[Compound2632]

37 minutes ago, john new said:

A while since I found any information relevant to this slow progress project and whether such timber loads were sheeted or not: 

 

This photo identified on Facebook as Windsor Street, Birmingham, Goods Yard circa 1905 shows that the wagons with planked timber were loaded with varying lengths and sheeted within the length of the wagon but had no sheeting over their overhanging end. Trunk timbers were unsheeted. That is at odds with a 1963 BFI film of Hull Docks  showing a train load of plank timber leaving Hull Docks unsheeted (See circa 12 mins in), however, the destination of that train isn't stated so may have only been a very short haul trip within the Hull area.

 

My own feeling is that custom and practice would mean the loading styles staying fairly constant over time until the container revolution changed dock work. If people find more photos of overhanging timber in trains please let me know.

 

NB Only links to the photo and film given for copyright considerations.

 

 

See also this crop from a photo of Vastern Road Yard, Reading, c. 1905:

 

 

Best date for the Windsor street photo is 1903: 

https://www.warwickshirerailways.com/lms/lnwra3633.htm.

[Tony Wright]

4 hours ago, cctransuk said:

 

Tony,

 

No offence intended - I merely felt that your comments concerning provenance and devaluing were slightly at odds with your ethos of 'having a go' and pride in achievement, regardless of the results.

 

.... but then I have never been bothered by the 'value' of a model - I build and buy 'em to run 'em! 😊

 

CJI.

No offence taken John,

 

My ethos is always to 'have a go', but I temper this by suggesting trying techniques/alterations on something of relatively low value first.

 

To take a locomotive, which, at today's prices would be in excess of £1,300 on commission and obliterating its provenance seemed a bit daft to me.

 

Still, what folks do with locos I've built after I've been paid is up to them. They're their property, after all.  

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Edited September 28, 2022 by Tony Wright
to add something

[Barry O]

Perhaps you should hand the locos over to someone who is happy with dcc wiring?  If you are so against it.. don't touch it.

 

As it happens I have just had to reset the dcc chip on a Britannia as someone who doesn't really understand  dcc that well had "professionally" made a complete mess of its CVs. I had an original copy of these so I restored them all using my SPROG. 

 

Putting crock clips onto motors with the chip in place and wired in could be detrimental to the chip.. unsolder the motor leads first then use the direct dc power to the motor.

 

Baz

Edited September 28, 2022 by Barry O

[Tony Wright]

12 minutes ago, Barry O said:

Perhaps you should hand the locos over to someone who is happy with dcc wiring?  If you are so against it.. don't touch it.

 

As it happens I have just had to reset the dcc chip on a Britannia as someone who doesn't really understand  dcc that well had "professionally" made a complete mess of its CVs. I had an original copy of these so I restored them all using my SPROG. 

 

Putting crock clips onto motors with the chip in place and wired in could be detrimental to the chip.. unsolder the motor leads first then use the direct dc power to the motor.

 

Baz

Do you fancy a job, Baz?

 

The main problem is (believe it or not) not the DCC installation, though that's an impediment to what needs to be done. The principal problem is that the locos (mechanically) are made so badly. It's a pity because the general painting, in the main, and weathering is very-natural; they look rather nice, but they don't work. 

 

I assume you'll be at Wigan with Chapel? If so, I'll bring one or two along and would you mind having a quick look, please?

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[dibateg]

All my builds have an etched builders plate underneath - some of my clients liked to have provenance for their models. I'm also proud of what I have created and like to have my name on it. Who knows, they might even come up at an auction house some day....

 

Rare model locomotives sold for 'astonishing' £25,000 - BBC News:-

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershire-62742919?at_campaign=KARANGA&at_medium=RSS

 

 

All of my client builds would have to do 20 minutes running on a circuit in each direction ( whilst I and a mate supped coffee and biscuits and put the world to rights ) before they were allowed out of the door... Non runners should go straight back to the builder, but as Tony has found, some probably have never run since delivery...

 

So what is it then?

 

Tony

[Barry Ten]

8F?

[PJT]

1 hour ago, dibateg said:

So what is it then?

 

Looks like a WD to me, with that brake cylinder set up.  Rather lovely, too.

 

Pete T.

 

[Barry O]

8 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Do you fancy a job, Baz?

 

The main problem is (believe it or not) not the DCC installation, though that's an impediment to what needs to be done. The principal problem is that the locos (mechanically) are made so badly. It's a pity because the general painting, in the main, and weathering is very-natural; they look rather nice, but they don't work. 

 

I assume you'll be at Wigan with Chapel? If so, I'll bring one or two along and would you mind having a quick look, please?

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

No problemo..see you at pie eating land

Baz

[Tony Wright]

9 hours ago, dibateg said:

All my builds have an etched builders plate underneath - some of my clients liked to have provenance for their models. I'm also proud of what I have created and like to have my name on it. Who knows, they might even come up at an auction house some day....

 

Rare model locomotives sold for 'astonishing' £25,000 - BBC News:-

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershire-62742919?at_campaign=KARANGA&at_medium=RSS

 

 

All of my client builds would have to do 20 minutes running on a circuit in each direction ( whilst I and a mate supped coffee and biscuits and put the world to rights ) before they were allowed out of the door... Non runners should go straight back to the builder, but as Tony has found, some probably have never run since delivery...

 

So what is it then?

 

Tony

Good morning Tony,

 

You should be proud of what you build, and what a sophisticated piece of provenance. I just write my name in paint with a few-hairs sable (and the date and often the customer's name) underneath the footplate of my builds.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[dibateg]

8 hours ago, PJT said:

 

Looks like a WD to me, with that brake cylinder set up.  Rather lovely, too.

 

Pete T.

 

Yes  - WD Pete.....  7mm sclae Snow Hill Kit..

 

Regards

[t-b-g]

35 minutes ago, dibateg said:

Yes  - WD Pete.....  7mm sclae Snow Hill Kit..

 

Regards

 

I hate to be critical Tony but are you sure you are building it the right way up?

[Bucoops]

2 hours ago, t-b-g said:

 

I hate to be critical Tony but are you sure you are building it the right way up?

 

Perhaps it's for an Australian client?

[Craigw]

10 hours ago, Bucoops said:

 

Perhaps it's for an Australian client?

 

From where I am sitting, with a cat in my lap and a cup of coffee at my side, everything looks alright. May I be so bold as to suggest that you are the ones who are upside down?

 

By the way, we are 10 hours ahead of you, or you are 10 hours behind us. 

 

You can choose which makes you feel better :)

 

Regards from up top,

 

Craig W

 

 

[Tony Wright]

The latest Bytham V2 is now complete (making number 14, at least!). 

 

 

Handrails on.

 

Note the piece of brass shim in the base of the smokebox. If the two halves of the boiler are soldered together as designed, the diameter is too small. So, the brass acts as a fillet.

 

 

Just some detailing to do now.............

 

 

And, the finished result.

 

This is the Nu-Cast body/tender riding on the OO frames which I originally built for the V2 which now resides (permanently) on Retford, running on its EM frames. 

 

It looks like a little ride-height adjustment is necessary between the loco and its tender (raise the tender slightly by the look).

 

Being dispassionate, this probably isn't as good as the latest Bachmann RTR V2 (which I don't own, so can't do a comparison shot). But, who cares? This is much more personal.

 

It'll be with me (along with at least two other V2s) at Wigan over the weekend. I look forward to seeing visitors, but, please be patient because I'm on my own. Mo's gardening, or hopes to. 

 

 

[Jesse Sim]

22 hours ago, Bucoops said:

 

Perhaps it's for an Australian client?

Oi

[Bucoops]

2 hours ago, Jesse Sim said:

Oi

 

Oi yerself 🤪

[Chamby]

4 hours ago, Jesse Sim said:

Oi

 

Shouldn't that be  !O ?

[Jesse Sim]

10 hours ago, Chamby said:

 

Shouldn't that be  !O ?

This is where we need an angry button 🤣

[Coach bogie]

On 29/09/2022 at 21:19, Craigw said:

 

From where I am sitting, with a cat in my lap and a cup of coffee at my side, everything looks alright. May I be so bold as to suggest that you are the ones who are upside down?

 

By the way, we are 10 hours ahead of you, or you are 10 hours behind us. 

 

You can choose which makes you feel better :)

 

Regards from up top,

 

Craig W

 

 

Only 9 hours ahead, here in Brisbane. No daylight saving changes in Queensland, as in other states.

 

Mike Wiltshire