Wright writes.....

[Dunsignalling]

19 hours ago, PMP said:

Yep. Doesn’t mean people buy it like they do Cd100 though. 

I think many of us have become conditioned to building a new layout every couple of years or following the progress of others who do.

 

Fact is, many people (quite possibly an unseen majority) are still extending or modifying layouts they began twenty, thirty or forty years ago, and naturally use the same material on the new bits.

 

If one is in the habit of altering things around, the robustness of Code 100 makes it rather more re-usable and, of course,  many who use Code 75 on the visible parts of layouts, employ Code 100 "off stage".

 

One needs to be both careful and lucky for Code 75 to be satisfactorily relaid more than once.

 

John

 

Edited July 11, 2022 by Dunsignalling

[Andy Hayter]

I would agree John and perhaps expand a little.  When I started my latest project 7 or so years ago, I did debate with myself whether code 75 would be most appropriate ( answer yes) or whether my stock of code 100 bits should be used up.   Since I had all of the points I needed and almost all of the plain track, the choice was one of using up resources already to hand.

[billbedford]

8 hours ago, t-b-g said:

 Will the days of etched and cast kits soon be over?

 

Having just looked closely at the lastest invoice from my etcher, I would say - Sooner than you think. 

[billbedford]

6 hours ago, cb900f said:

No doubt it depends on the plastic used in the process, but how resilient/brittle is the plastic in the finished model ?  I'm sure Tony built a 3D loco some time back and parts broke off before he had basically started ?

 

It depends on your choice of resin. I print buffer springs, handrails and truss rods and don't expect them to break unless massively abused. Admittedly verical handrail are easier to prin than horizontal ones. 

[billbedford]

6 hours ago, polybear said:

 

I'd also be concerned to know how the material behaves with age - is there a risk of it getting (more?) brittle, for example?  

 

Yes, especially with cheap resin. 

[Bucoops]

2 minutes ago, billbedford said:

 

It depends on your choice of resin. I print buffer springs, handrails and truss rods and don't expect them to break unless massively abused. Admittedly verical handrail are easier to prin than horizontal ones. 

 

As Bill knows, I'm heavily biased towards brass and nickel silver over resins. But to be fair, the truss rod prints he recently supplied are more resilient that I was expecting. Still a way off being a convert mind.

[zr2498]

41 minutes ago, billbedford said:

 

It depends on your choice of resin. I print buffer springs, handrails and truss rods and don't expect them to break unless massively abused. Admittedly verical handrail are easier to prin than horizontal ones. 

Agreed. I believe some parts for F1 cars are now 3D printed as the complexity of the machining would be impossible. I expect that would be extremely robust

[Tony Wright]

4 hours ago, t-b-g said:

 

An interesting shape of door grab handles Tony. I have seen two different designs in photos of the real thing but neither was like that. Is it based on a photo perhaps showing third type that I am not aware of?

Horror of horrors, Tony.

 

I fitted the handrails into the holes provided! 

 

The Campling drawing isn't entirely clear and I don't have access to a large range of pictures. 

 

There appear to be several different designs of handrails (some very florid!). I've decided to finish mine in post-War brown, but with BR numerals. Some Barnums received carmine and cream, but many must have been scrapped in 'shabby' brown. This must be anathema to the purist, but I'll run it on the M&GNR section. Looking through my books, the system seemed to be a retirement home for carriages of all denominations. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Tony Wright]

4 hours ago, gr.king said:

Should the doorway handrails on Barnums, even in the plainer style, be somewhat fancier than those you've fitted? How did you thread the truss rods (nickel silver?) through the queen posts etc and get both ends into the oblique sockets in the floor without breaking anything please. I'm intrigued to know whether the rods are all one piece, and when the bends were formed.

PS - I didn't see that the question about the handrails has already been asked.

Good evening Graeme,

 

'How did you thread the truss rods (nickel silver?) through the queen posts etc and get both ends into the oblique sockets in the floor without breaking anything please. I'm intrigued to know whether the rods are all one piece, and when the bends were formed.'

 

In answer to the first part of your question - luck! 

 

The rods are in one piece, and the bends were formed after they were threaded through. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

[chris p bacon]

A couple of years ago I etched handrails for some Barnums that @JCL made from Card/MDF on a laser cutter. The models were very impressive.

There is a spare set left but Jason did mention a couple of weeks ago that he might build some more. I'll check but I suspect that the Handrails were tagged onto a GNR E2 Chassis we were working on at the time.

 

Edited July 11, 2022 by chris p bacon

[Tony Wright]

5 hours ago, davidw said:

Do you know when York will appear in BRM Tony?

Good evening David,

 

I don't know, though I doubt if it'll be long.

 

It's work in progress, and I've been invited back.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Clearwater]

7 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Speaking of metal-construction...........

 

 

I actually did a bit of work on this Nu-Cast Armstrong Goods over the weekend at Ruddington (for the very first time, I made not a penny for CRUK by repairing anything). One loco claimed to be 'dead', yet ran perfectly on my test track without my doing anything. Another was a wretched split-chassis abomination, for which I could do nothing. 

 

I've now found out that the customer wants a later style of tender. Does anyone know who makes a suitable 2,500 gal tender in kit form? 

if I’ve understood correctly, Nu-Cast will be doing a version of the kit soon with the later 2500g tender.

 

David

[t-b-g]

2 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Horror of horrors, Tony.

 

I fitted the handrails into the holes provided! 

 

The Campling drawing isn't entirely clear and I don't have access to a large range of pictures. 

 

There appear to be several different designs of handrails (some very florid!). I've decided to finish mine in post-War brown, but with BR numerals. Some Barnums received carmine and cream, but many must have been scrapped in 'shabby' brown. This must be anathema to the purist, but I'll run it on the M&GNR section. Looking through my books, the system seemed to be a retirement home for carriages of all denominations. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

2 hours ago, chris p bacon said:

A couple of years ago I etched handrails for some Barnums that @JCL made from Card/MDF on a laser cutter. The models were very impressive.

There is a spare set left but Jason did mention a couple of weeks ago that he might build some more. I'll check but I suspect that the Handrails were tagged onto a GNR E2 Chassis we were working on at the time.

 

 

The photo of the etch that has been posted by chris p bacon shows why there were two holes. They are intended for the intermediate supports on both the fancy version and the plainer (but still curvy at the ends) variety.

 

I would say that they are worth changing as they add quite a bit of character to the vehicles, especially if it is going into BRM. There were some etched fancy style etched brass handrails in the D & S kit. I wonder if Danny Pinnock might have a few spares available. 

 

I once saw a list of the vehicles that received red and cream livery. There were only two, a Brake 3rd and an all 3rd. The rest were withdrawn in brown. We did have (mostly built by Roy and finished off and painted by me) a red and cream all 3rd on Retford.

 

They were, to my eyes, magnificent examples of pre-grouping carriage building. 

 

 

[96701]

Jen was born and brought up in York. When I showed her the photos, she recognised it straight away, and initially thought it was of the real thing. Absolutely stunning model and excellent photographs.

[St Enodoc]

2 hours ago, 96701 said:

Jen was born and brought up in York. When I showed her the photos, she recognised it straight away, and initially thought it was of the real thing. Absolutely stunning model and excellent photographs.

Couldn't quite spot the Wagon Shop though Phil!

[polybear]

10 hours ago, billbedford said:

 

Having just looked closely at the latest invoice from my etcher, I would say - Sooner than you think. 

 

No doubt due to the price of brass (and probably NS as well) going vertical recently - many raw materials suppliers have stopped listing prices on websites recently, instead inserting the words "call for price" simply because prices are changing almost on a daily basis.  That, coupled with rising electricity prices (of which I'm sure etchers scoff quite a lot) hasn't done us any favours whatsoever, sadly.

[Tony Wright]

6 hours ago, t-b-g said:

 

 

The photo of the etch that has been posted by chris p bacon shows why there were two holes. They are intended for the intermediate supports on both the fancy version and the plainer (but still curvy at the ends) variety.

 

I would say that they are worth changing as they add quite a bit of character to the vehicles, especially if it is going into BRM. There were some etched fancy style etched brass handrails in the D & S kit. I wonder if Danny Pinnock might have a few spares available. 

 

I once saw a list of the vehicles that received red and cream livery. There were only two, a Brake 3rd and an all 3rd. The rest were withdrawn in brown. We did have (mostly built by Roy and finished off and painted by me) a red and cream all 3rd on Retford.

 

They were, to my eyes, magnificent examples of pre-grouping carriage building. 

 

 

Thanks Tony,

 

I'll investigate. 

 

One Barnum brake is preserved, I believe (on the GCR?). It's the one which went into departmental service (according to Hugh Longworth), DE320528 (ex-E5695E). There would also appear to be three of the Open Thirds preserved as well, again ex-Dept. As such, they'd be painted black I suppose. 

 

It's a shame none was ever painted in maroon (I've been told the last was withdrawn from passenger service in 1956). 

 

You raise an interesting point; that of 'how accurate' should a model be if it's to appear in print? I was once berated by a builder of superb LNER carriages for my 'slapdash' approach to building rolling stock. Though he accepted that my 'Elizabethan' rake was 'impressive' in motion, because I'd used old Bachmann donors behind the Southern Pride sides, the underframes were 'far too compromised and lacking in detail' (at least they rode, and still do ride, on HD white metal bogies). 

 

Now, for a start, even in the wildest imaginings of my psyche, I could never build rolling stock anywhere near as high a standard as he. That accepted, I pointed out that I was building 'layout carriages' for use in 'layout trains' - in this case, ten Thompsons and two Mk.1s. Not only that, there were ten Pullmans required for the 'Queen of Scots', eight assorted cars for the afternoon 'Talisman', at least 12 cars for 'The West Riding' and 'The Northumbrian' respectively, and so on and so on........

 

To illustrate my 'slapdash' approach, here's my 'Elizabethan'......

 

 

Built over a quarter of a century ago for service on Stoke Summit (yes, I have shown this shot before).

 

 

And now in use on Little Bytham (with my taking its picture!). 

 

 

With plenty of different A4s to haul it. 

 

At this sort of range, any detail (even if it's substantially-correct) is rather invisible (do you remember Roy's reply to a question of whether the brakes were right on an N5 he'd built?). 

 

I'm not defending 'sloppy' and/or 'inaccurate' modelling, and I might well change those handrails on the Barnum.

 

 

We'll see when it's painted in heavily-weathered BR brown...................

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

 

 

[65179]

47 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Thanks Tony,

 

I'll investigate. 

 

One Barnum brake is preserved, I believe (on the GCR?). It's the one which went into departmental service (according to Hugh Longworth), DE320528 (ex-E5695E). There would also appear to be three of the Open Thirds preserved as well, again ex-Dept. As such, they'd be painted black I suppose. 

 

It's a shame none was ever painted in maroon (I've been told the last was withdrawn from passenger service in 1956). 

 

You raise an interesting point; that of 'how accurate' should a model be if it's to appear in print? I was once berated by a builder of superb LNER carriages for my 'slapdash' approach to building rolling stock. Though he accepted that my 'Elizabethan' rake was 'impressive' in motion, because I'd used old Bachmann donors behind the Southern Pride sides, the underframes were 'far too compromised and lacking in detail' (at least they rode, and still do ride, on HD white metal bogies). 

 

Now, for a start, even in the wildest imaginings of my psyche, I could never build rolling stock anywhere near as high a standard as he. That accepted, I pointed out that I was building 'layout carriages' for use in 'layout trains' - in this case, ten Thompsons and two Mk.1s. Not only that, there were ten Pullmans required for the 'Queen of Scots', eight assorted cars for the afternoon 'Talisman', at least 12 cars for 'The West Riding' and 'The Northumbrian' respectively, and so on and so on........

 

To illustrate my 'slapdash' approach, here's my 'Elizabethan'......

 

 

Built over a quarter of a century ago for service on Stoke Summit (yes, I have shown this shot before).

 

 

And now in use on Little Bytham (with my taking its picture!). 

 

 

With plenty of different A4s to haul it. 

 

At this sort of range, any detail (even if it's substantially-correct) is rather invisible (do you remember Roy's reply to a question of whether the brakes were right on an N5 he'd built?). 

 

I'm not defending 'sloppy' and/or 'inaccurate' modelling, and I might well change those handrails on the Barnum.

 

 

We'll see when it's painted in heavily-weathered BR brown...................

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

 

 

 

Your Barnum is coming on well Tony. There are 3 Barnums on the Nottingham Heritage Railway (formerly called the GCR(N)): Two thirds and a brake third. Hopefully they will all be fully restored in time.

 

The irony in the N5 brake comment is that they and the equivalent J10s are two of the few loco classes where I'd want the brakes to be right. Of the two types fitted,  the earlier massive brake hangers are so distinctive (although typically I can't lay my hands on a photo where they jump out at you) and more prominent than those fitted to later examples:

 

 

Regards,

Simon

[robertcwp]

8 hours ago, t-b-g said:

I once saw a list of the vehicles that received red and cream livery. There were only two, a Brake 3rd and an all 3rd. The rest were withdrawn in brown. We did have (mostly built by Roy and finished off and painted by me) a red and cream all 3rd on Retford.

 

If there were only two, then I have images of both of them in my collection:

 

BTK_Barnum_LivSt by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

 

E5657E by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

 

I do recall seeing a model of one on Retford but I don't think it passed to Sandra. In any event, if they had all gone by 1957, it would be out of period.

[robertcwp]

A few pages back in this thread, we saw this sign in a photo of Retford:

61225_Retford_sign_1964 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

 

I visited Retford (Sandra's - formerly Roy's - layout that is) at the weekend and this is the model version of the sign:

IMG_0211am by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

 

And, thinking of 'layout' carriages, here is one:

IMG_0204am by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

 

'The White Rose' is one of the trains represented on Retford. At one end of the Leeds portion, it had an unusual Gresley 3-compartment brake first (Diag 300 if I recall correctly) for which no etches or kits seem to be available. This one was put together from a couple of Kirk kits by Brian Kirby and has come out well as a layout carriage. 

[gr.king]

12 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Good evening Graeme,

 

'How did you thread the truss rods (nickel silver?) through the queen posts etc and get both ends into the oblique sockets in the floor without breaking anything please. I'm intrigued to know whether the rods are all one piece, and when the bends were formed.'

 

In answer to the first part of your question - luck! 

 

The rods are in one piece, and the bends were formed after they were threaded through. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

Thanks Tony, I now see, on close inspection, that the recesses for the rod ends in the floor are not quite the oblique "tunnels" that I thought they were, being much more like open channels instead (save for some flash creeping over the top edges) so it should be much easier than I feared to get the truss rod ends into those.

 

11 hours ago, chris p bacon said:

A couple of years ago I etched handrails for some Barnums that @JCL made from Card/MDF on a laser cutter. The models were very impressive.

There is a spare set left but Jason did mention a couple of weeks ago that he might build some more. I'll check but I suspect that the Handrails were tagged onto a GNR E2 Chassis we were working on at the time.

 

Those etches, with the end ladders too, look very handy, and the possibility suggested by TBG of kit remnants from Dan Pinnock might be considered, but it is also perfectly possible, as I found 20 years ago, to combine handrail knobs and hand-formed 0.45 brass wire to produce both handrail types - if you're prepared to take time and care in order to derive the satisfaction.

[t-b-g]

34 minutes ago, gr.king said:

Thanks Tony, I now see, on close inspection, that the recesses for the rod ends in the floor are not quite the oblique "tunnels" that I thought they were, being much more like open channels instead (save for some flash creeping over the top edges) so it should be much easier than I feared to get the truss rod ends into those.

 

Those etches, with the end ladders too, look very handy, and the possibility suggested by TBG of kit remnants from Dan Pinnock might be considered, but it is also perfectly possible, as I found 20 years ago, to combine handrail knobs and hand-formed 0.45 brass wire to produce both handrail types - if you're prepared to take time and care in order to derive the satisfaction.

 

I would fancy my chances of making the simpler type from wire. They should be a round section anyway so wire is more accurate than a flat etch.

 

Well done if you made the fancy version from wire. I think I would have chickened out.

[t-b-g]

1 hour ago, robertcwp said:

If there were only two, then I have images of both of them in my collection:

 

BTK_Barnum_LivSt by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

 

E5657E by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

 

I do recall seeing a model of one on Retford but I don't think it passed to Sandra. In any event, if they had all gone by 1957, it would be out of period.

 

You have a full house there Robert!

 

They are the two.

 

From memory, the last one went in either 1956 or 1957 so it is not too far out.

 

Those photos illustrate the simpler handrail arrangement very well.

 

[Clearwater]

Apologies if I've missed it, but who's making those Barnum resin kits?  Appreciate Tony's comments about the preference for metal but I don't think a metal kit is currently commercially available?

 

David

[MJI]

14 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Horror of horrors, Tony.

 

I fitted the handrails into the holes provided! 

 

The Campling drawing isn't entirely clear and I don't have access to a large range of pictures. 

 

There appear to be several different designs of handrails (some very florid!). I've decided to finish mine in post-War brown, but with BR numerals. Some Barnums received carmine and cream, but many must have been scrapped in 'shabby' brown. This must be anathema to the purist, but I'll run it on the M&GNR section. Looking through my books, the system seemed to be a retirement home for carriages of all denominations. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

All sorts did

 

How about a Ratio LNWR TK in brown?

 

https://www.warwickshirerailways.com/lms/lnwrbns_br1823.htm