Wright writes.....

[FarrMan]

14 hours ago, Northmoor said:

If the GWR route was to Ashburton, then there must be about 500 models set on it and all at the same end.......

Seriously, though, Brent is in the main line.

 

Lloyd

[St Enodoc]

14 minutes ago, Chamby said:

 

You missed my point, PMP.  I have no problem with what you describe above. The point I was making is that, if you had opportunistically acquired that image from someone else, perhaps after their death, you weren’t the one who had travelled 120 miles to take it etc, etc, and the ethics become different.

 

I wonder then, what those who have built up a significant photographic record might want to happen to their work after their death... would they prefer it to become a part of a free, publicly available archive, or are they happy if someone they have never known acquires the images, claims copyright and starts charging others for accessing them? 

After my death I don't think I'll care either way. However, my executors will have a legal obligation to realise the value of my estate and, subject to any specific provisions in my will, others might wish to acquire or make available either commercially or philanthropically anything I've left behind (and good luck to 'em!).

Edited February 24, 2022 by St Enodoc

[St Enodoc]

15 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

 

Not mean-spirited in any way at all - merely a request for Rob to do as most of us do, and open his own thread in which to display his work.

 

What is unreasonable about that? I await your answers with interest!

 

CJI.

John, may we have a link to your thread (not the CCT site) please?

[PupCam]

2 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

I'm also very happy with the range of 'modelling' seen on here; whether that be the appearance of some of the finest things ever created in railway miniature (nothing of mine), through to the 'humblest' of beginnings. As is known, I don't have that much time for endless images of RTR (if one is going to be a hypocrite, then no half-measures!), unless it's been extensively altered/improved/weathered; more especially by the person who's created the item themselves (I'm not particularly interested in second-hand stories, even though any really decent painting is not my work). 

 

<Snip>

 

If, for whatever reason, a 'modeller' is 'restricted' in what he/she can achieve with regard to 'creativity', then, as long as it's their work, it has merit in my view.

 

I think the distinction is very clear;  WW is a fascinatingly diverse thread that  presents, discusses and appreciates the efforts of and the modelling skills demonstrated directly by the contributors or by 3rd parties that have come to the attention of the contributors.     What it isn't is a "Shop Window" for pristine commercial products straight out of the box, despite lots of YouTubers trying to make money videoing their efforts, there is no skill or added value removing an item from its container  and preparing it for use (with the possible exception of the current activities underway with the James Webb telescope ....)

 

That skill and effort takes many forms depending on the particular facet, aspect and extent of the general subject of the model in question.    I suspect that I'm "broader minded" than some inasmuch as I'm not fussed if the entire object is hand-cut from sheet brass and needle files OR the individual has developed the 3D modelling skill required to create an "STL" file and created a 3D printed model of Welwyn viaduct as long as it is their knowledge and skill that created the STL file.    On the other-hand, downloading a 3D printer file  from the internet and printing a model of Welwyn Viaduct would be virtually the same as an "Unboxing Video" of Hornby's new Welwyn viaduct model!

 

Personally, I think to argue otherwise is equivalent to saying a loco built from an etched brass loco kit is really just a glorified RTR as the builder hasn't cut out and formed every component from sheet material which is clearly ludicrous.    The common denominator is;  has there been the application of skill or skills and effort to get from the source to the finished product?   If yes, then the object or entity is worthy of study and appreciation and in my book it doesn't matter if it's hewn from solid with a tooth pick or 3D modelled in a virtual world or even a very cleverly and skilfully put together image.

 

Talking of etched brass, I remember being bowled-over when as a young lad I saw my first model constructed from a new fangled etched brass kit; it was an example of the fabulous George Allen footbridge kit that appeared in my father's model shop in the very early 70'.    I seem to remember there was a fancy new adhesive named "IS12", the first cyanoacrylate super-glue to become available to modellers which was recommended for its assembly.    Of course, soldering it together was a far better option!

 

Alan

Edited February 24, 2022 by PupCam

[polybear]

2 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

There is another, full page, shot of Welwyn North on page 16 of my LNER Pacifics Modelling Options, Irwell Press, 2010, showing an A1 leaving Welwyn South Tunnel's south portal (do you have a copy of this successful volume? If not, I'll see if I can get you one). 

 

 

Hi Tony,

Rails of Sheffield have a copy(s) if that helps....

 

1 hour ago, cctransuk said:

 

Not mean-spirited in any way at all - merely a request for Rob to do as most of us do, and open his own thread in which to display his work.

 

What is unreasonable about that? I await your answers with interest!

 

CJI.

 

Many, many people have displayed their work on Tony's thread without issue; why some see a problem with Rob's work is beyond me - that work may be photos rather than kit-builds etc, but photography does form a very large part of the thread, much of it posted by Tony.  Personally if he's used another photo from the web and substantially edited it such that it's far removed from the original purely for the enjoyment of doing so and without financial gain then I see no problem whatsoever; the image is now (I image - without seeing "before" and "after" images it's impossible to be sure) substantially different from the original and therefore as far as I can see no threat to the original and it's ability to earn income, if indeed that is the intention.

If a person is so concerned about their work being ripped off then don't put it on the net in the first place - or if they choose to do so then somehow whack a "COPYRIGHT" watermark right across it that can't be removed.

Finally, if a poster really upsets someone then there's always the "Ignore List" on RMWeb which allows you to block a user's posts without them knowing.  This solves the person's concerns without spoiling it for others (personally I really like Rob's posts) or risking upsetting the poster.

 

[Jesse Sim]

2 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

I'll get you a copy, Jesse,

 

FOC, naturally (the usual abuse of privilege!). 

 

Essendine? By the way, the trackplan was by Ian Wilson, via me. 

 

Essendine was the original plan when Ian and I decided to 'build a layout together' when Mo and I moved over to Lincolnshire. However, no matter how hard he tried, with a 'footprint' of 32' x 12' to work with, to go on/off-scene at one end or the other, required visible right-angle curves. Not so much a problem with regard to the Bourne or Stamford branches respectively, but the ECML (along its fastest bit) going round a tight curve? Which is why Little Bytham was chosen to build. 

 

My views are well-known on this - visible tight curves ruin realism on main line depictions.

 

Regards,

 

Tony.  

Thanks Tony, however, please don’t sign it, it will devalue it.

 

I think I worked out I would need 40ft of scenic track to do it justice. It would be an interesting layout with the two branch lines. I think Little Bytham has worked much better then Essendine could have, although it is 3inches short!  

 

Talk soon

Jesse

Edited February 24, 2022 by Jesse Sim

[Bernard Lamb]

2 hours ago, Chamby said:

 

You missed my point, PMP.  I have no problem with what you describe above. The point I was making is that, if you had opportunistically acquired that image from someone else, perhaps after their death, you weren’t the one who had travelled 120 miles to take it etc, etc, and the ethics become different.

 

I wonder then, what those who have built up a significant photographic record might want to happen to their work after their death... would they prefer it to become a part of a free, publicly available archive, or are they happy if someone they have never known acquires the images, claims copyright and starts charging others for accessing them? 

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1730959503584733/permalink/3513954325285233/

 

See this discussion about the HC Casserley collection.

This auction was also discussed on this forum.

Like it or not it is the way of the world.

Being very careful what I say, as Mary Casserley is a friend of  friend. I do tend to agree that if the photographer does not make provision for future proofing their collection then no one should be surprised if other relatives flog them to the highest bidder.

 

Bernard

[john new]

2 hours ago, Chamby said:

 

You missed my point, PMP.  I have no problem with what you describe above. The point I was making is that, if you had opportunistically acquired that image from someone else, perhaps after their death, you weren’t the one who had travelled 120 miles to take it etc, etc, and the ethics become different.

 

I wonder then, what those who have built up a significant photographic record might want to happen to their work after their death... would they prefer it to become a part of a free, publicly available archive, or are they happy if someone they have never known acquires the images, claims copyright and starts charging others for accessing them? 

As a Director of a Society that manages photo archives a fee charged to cover admin and physical production costs I see as a perfectly legitimate business transaction. Where Alamy gets their images from is a separate issue for charging for the service of making them easily available. Equally if you want one in a hurry then paying a fee to get it is a sensible business transaction, as opposed to to trawling umpteen websites in the hope of finding one that fits your needs.

[John Isherwood]

2 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

John, may we have a link to your thread (not the CCT site) please?

 

I am sure that a quick search of RMweb will produce links to numerous threads that I have created; some will relate to the activities of CCT, but many will relate to my own modelling projects.

 

I do not have a single thread for all of my non-CCT stuff; I tend to open suitably titled threads for individual projects - that enables members to instantly decide whether they wish to read my posts; (a quick check of the threads that I started produced seventeen non-CCT-related threads).

 

This is exactly what I challenge Rob to do - open a thread entitled, say, "Rob's RTR Loco Image Manipulations"; that would leave no doubt as to the thread content and would be a regular stop-off for his followers.

 

Now what is unreasonable or mean-spirited about that?

 

CJI.

[Tony Wright]

28 minutes ago, Headstock said:

 

Good morning Polybear,

 

Whether you have a problem with it or not is irrelevant, it's still breaking the law. You may not have a problem with Terrorism, murder or other forms of theft, it doesn't stop it from being illegal. It is not about monitorization, it is about taking other peoples processions without there permission. If I was to take images of your family, that you had posted to the internet and did whatever the heck I wanted with them, you would soon have a very different opinion on the matter. 

My trying to be 'sensible', Andrew,

 

To equate copyright 'theft' with terrorism and murder is a bit asinine in my opinion. 

 

Let's keep WW sensible, please. Why do some discussions have to 'deteriorate' so badly? 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[sandra]

Tony,

 

The ECML does of course reign supreme, I as the owner of Retford, could hardly disagree, however to model the ECML accurately does require a great deal of stock and most of the principal stations are very large and require a lot of space to model. The fact that so many people have chosen to model the ECML in spite of the problems does show the attractions of long trains and lots of big engines.

 

 

This is actually a photo of my very incomplete EM model of Andover Junction on the South West main line from Waterloo to Salisbury and Exeter. I chose this location as being an interesting location where lot happened but which could be modelled in a reasonable space and yet have full length trains hauled by Pacific locomotives. 
 

The South West main line does offer quite a few locations which would have operating potential and yet not require the space required to model a station the size of Retford. Weybridge, Axminster, Seaton Junction and Sidmouth Junction immediately spring to mind.

 

Sandra

[Headstock]

4 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

My trying to be 'sensible', Andrew,

 

To equate copyright 'theft' with terrorism and murder is a bit asinine in my opinion. 

 

Let's keep WW sensible, please. Why do some discussions have to 'deteriorate' so badly? 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

Because some people think it is ok to do it, they can't see that it is a crime that can have serious consequences, If you don't think it is as serious as other crimes mentioned above, you might wish to look at the theft of images in the catfishing case associated with the Delphi murders, horrific!

 

Image theft is a crime, no better than breaking into a house and steeling from the owners.

[APOLLO]

The problem is that most folks (self included occasionally) see the internet as a "Free for all" and act accordingly. Hence my stance that I'm not overly fussed if my railway images are used commercially or otherwise. I post no family photos etc on line for this very reason.

 

Someone posted earlier that you (anyone) should not post images if they don't want them copied etc etc. Seems like common sense to me. A commodity in short supply these days.

 

As to Robs superb images, - Poor chap I understand is disabled and is doing his bit on here with these images. Why should he be bullied off this excellent thread ? Keep 'em coming right here Rob.

 

Anyway, continuing with my personal model history, Back in 1972 we moved house and I moved scale, to OO. I tried to model Sheffield Victoria as I travelled over Woodhead on its last weekend of passenger services (Photos on Flickr site below - free for all !!!!!!!!!!!!). This together with four new CKD Tri-ang EM Electric locos and a Trix A4 got me off. At this time as you will note I was better at making control panels than the model railway !!!!!. This layout lasted a few years before a rebuild to Garsdale on the S&C (a different story). O gauge North American kicked off in 1982, yet another story.

 

 

 

Those Codar controllers were the bees knees back then - and I still have em (used for lighting etc)

 

 

Note the Super Duper Hi Fi (!!!!!!!!!!!!) and the Nixie tube electronic clock I made - this still just about works !!

 

 

Sheffield Victoria (top lines) - never got platforms or catenary.

 

Happy days back in the 70's, I had a good job and could buy a loco or two a bit more often.

 

Brit15

 

 

[PMP]

1 hour ago, polybear said:

.

Finally, if a poster really upsets someone then there's always the "Ignore List" on RMWeb which allows you to block a user's posts without them knowing.  This solves the person's concerns without spoiling it for others (personally I really like Rob's posts) or risking upsetting the poster.

 

NB for information.

To clarify that last element above that’s not quite true. The ‘block’ facility only works if you’re actually logged in to your username. If you’re reading the site (or any others with a similar facility), without logging in to your specific account, you will still see the posts in their entirety.

[TrevorP1]

32 minutes ago, sandra said:

Tony,

 

The ECML does of course reign supreme, I as the owner of Retford, could hardly disagree, however to model the ECML accurately does require a great deal of stock and most of the principal stations are very large and require a lot of space to model. The fact that so many people have chosen to model the ECML in spite of the problems does show the attractions of long trains and lots of big engines.

 

 

This is actually a photo of my very incomplete EM model of Andover Junction on the South West main line from Waterloo to Salisbury and Exeter. I chose this location as being an interesting location where lot happened but which could be modelled in a reasonable space and yet have full length trains hauled by Pacific locomotives. 
 

The South West main line does offer quite a few locations which would have operating potential and yet not require the space required to model a station the size of Retford. Weybridge, Axminster, Seaton Junction and Sidmouth Junction immediately spring to mind.

 

Sandra

 

Thank you for showing us Sandra. Until four or five years ago I lived near Winchester and so your image reminds me of my roots. I'd love to see more now and again.

[t-b-g]

49 minutes ago, sandra said:

Tony,

 

The ECML does of course reign supreme, I as the owner of Retford, could hardly disagree, however to model the ECML accurately does require a great deal of stock and most of the principal stations are very large and require a lot of space to model. The fact that so many people have chosen to model the ECML in spite of the problems does show the attractions of long trains and lots of big engines.

 

 

This is actually a photo of my very incomplete EM model of Andover Junction on the South West main line from Waterloo to Salisbury and Exeter. I chose this location as being an interesting location where lot happened but which could be modelled in a reasonable space and yet have full length trains hauled by Pacific locomotives. 
 

The South West main line does offer quite a few locations which would have operating potential and yet not require the space required to model a station the size of Retford. Weybridge, Axminster, Seaton Junction and Sidmouth Junction immediately spring to mind.

 

Sandra

 

Looking very nice Sandra. I had been wondering what your layout looked like and how far you had got with it. I had a whole list of layouts based on the ECML, GCR Main Line, LMS, GWR and SR Main Lines that I had seen or heard of that hadn't been mentioned yet and yours was one of them. Then I thought that some of the layout owners maybe wouldn't want their layouts mentioning, so I stopped myself posting. I do know that at least two people are building models of Seaton Junction. This was my contribution to one of them:

 

 

Edit as I forgot to include LMS. I am aware of at least 8 locations that have been modelled, including some very substantial ones.

 

Edited February 24, 2022 by t-b-g
To add content

[Tony Wright]

With regard to the (apparent) greater number of ECML layouts than those representing the other main lines, I did point out that I was showing pictures of such layouts I'd actually taken.

 

Despite my appearing to be partisan, I've photographed far fewer of those 'other' layouts. That's not to say they don't exist, but it's not been my privilege to photograph them; yet?

 

I don't think there's any harm in listing those layouts' names (though not necessarily their builders'/owners' names, for, obvious, security reasons, unless they're already in the public domain through work having been published already). 

 

There are also quite a few ECML layouts I haven't photographed. Is it safe to say, then, that there are more ECML layouts (now and in the past) than any other comparable main line? I think so. 

[grahame]

4 hours ago, polybear said:

 

If a person is so concerned about their work being ripped off then don't put it on the net in the first place 

 

 

Somehow that sounds like condoning copyright breeches on the net. If people didn't post images due to such concerns then we'd all probably be worse off. Better to ask and ensure that everyone observes and upholds the requirements rather than encourage those concerned not to post.

[sandra]

4 hours ago, t-b-g said:

 

Looking very nice Sandra. I had been wondering what your layout looked like and how far you had got with it. I had a whole list of layouts based on the ECML, GCR Main Line, LMS, GWR and SR Main Lines that I had seen or heard of that hadn't been mentioned yet and yours was one of them. Then I thought that some of the layout owners maybe wouldn't want their layouts mentioning, so I stopped myself posting. I do know that at least two people are building models of Seaton Junction. This was my contribution to one of them:

 

 

Edit as I forgot to include LMS. I am aware of at least 8 locations that have been modelled, including some very substantial ones.

 

Hello Tony,

 

Thanks for your comments. I really must get on with the layout but as you know I do have other things to do.

 

I think Seaton Junction has been modelled before, I seem to remember many years ago a model appeared in Railway Modeller. I would suggest if someone really wanted a challenge a model of Salisbury would be a fine last great project.

 

Sandra

[drmditch]

Re: Making things.

(I hardly dare to call what I do 'modelling' - I still have a lot to learn - and at 25,565 days old I had better get on and learn it!)

 

My latest three-part project has taken up far too much time, but is making progress.

 

This is an ex-NER Dia.85 Officer's Inspection Saloon. As drawn in Volume 2 of NERA's Diagrams of Passenger train vehicles.

This is a different vehicle to Dia.B which is (I think) the prototype of the sometimes available D&S kit.

Two of Dia. B survive. The vehicle at the Aln Valley Railway is currently being restored, and the group working on it have been most helpful.

The other vehicle is at Tanfield and has been mounted on a four-wheel underframe.

 

No.23271 (mine) appears to have undergone several modifications in the course of it's 60 years or so of working life. Several pictures of it are available in the NERA archive.

I am arranging a visit to the 'Search Engine' at the nRM. The drawing I'm working from states that it was revised in 1926, and that the vehicle at that time had Westinghouse and Hand Brakes, and was Gas lit. 

 

 

 

The basis structure of the sides is derived from the old Triang Hornby Clerestory mouldings. The disadvantage of using plastic mouldings is that their thickness requires each window to be cut and fitted individually. I haven't done this for a while, (with a Kirk 52' CL) and that worked better than this, so some re-glazing will be needed.

 

The second part of this project uses this:-

 

 

which fits neatly into the saloon and peers out over the veranda.

 

I have run some tests, and the videos resulting show up all the inadequacies of my railway - and will thus form a superb modelling tool!

When I have learned how to edit videos I will try to produce something worthy of posting. In the meantime here is a a quick view to give an idea of what is possible!

 

 

 

I did show the un-detailed (and unglazed) vehicle to Tony at the Doncaster show, and he was kind enough not to laugh at it!

 

The third part of the project may have to get started now - with the re-glazing in abeyance!

 

 

 

 

[StephenB]

The Southern main line from Waterloo to the west country was one of the country‘s premier main lines until the boys at Paddington got hold of it. Say no more.

 

Stephen

[westerner]

Reading this thread recently it has seemed a bit like a playground discussion/arguement along the lines of my favourite mainline is longer than yours and it has more models of the stations that are on it, so there, poke tongue out. What does it matter. Very little in my humble opinion.

[Tony Wright]

A bit of a mixed day............

 

This morning, Geoff Haynes brought round some models for photography he's painted..........

 

 

This is one of a trio of O Gauge LNWR carriages he's painted.

 

This afternoon, I started another project..........

 

 

A Mailcoach boarded Thompson BG. A simple project, and one I'll be taking with me to the Nottingham (Clifton) Show over this coming weekend as part of my demo/loco-doctoring; I'll be on my own because Mo will be busy with things at home (emptying what's left of our garden tool store after the storms of last week rather played with it). Please pop in and have a chat at the show.

 

Finally, this evening, Nick Logan called in with a few locos to tweak and a bit of advice. 

 

 

Readers might recall his bringing this J79 he'd built some three years ago.

 

It's now nicely weathered. 

 

 

[Tony Wright]

3 minutes ago, westerner said:

Reading this thread recently it has seemed a bit like a playground discussion/arguement along the lines of my favourite mainline is longer than yours and it has more models of the stations that are on it, so there, poke tongue out. What does it matter. Very little in my humble opinion.

Good evening Alan,

 

'Argument'? I merely opined that I have far more pictures in my model railway portfolio showing ECML layouts than I have of any other main line. I showed some of them in response to a question. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[APOLLO]

2 hours ago, StephenB said:

The Southern main line from Waterloo to the west country was one of the country‘s premier main lines until the boys at Paddington got hold of it. Say no more.

 

Stephen

 

Came across this nice video the other day

 

 

Being a Wiganer I've never been much of a Southern or GW fan though we holidayed in Ilfracombe back in 1963 and I remember the Spam cans. I still have a Tri-ang TT one somewhere in the loft !!

 

My brother & I traveled the Barnstaple to Halwill Jcn line, and also BarnstapIe - Dulverton - Tiverton - Tiverton Jcn & Hemyock lines, I was 11 years old at the time. As to GWR well for me it was the Cambrian lines, holidays again at Barmouth and Towyn back in the early 60's. But I hankered for the unknown, the East Coast main line and Pacifics etc. Alas I never saw them. A school trip to York back around 1966 I saw my first Deltic whilst bunking York MPD and I was hooked !!!!

 

But after the holidays etc it was back home to mucky old Wigan with Dub D's, Black 5's & 8's, 9 2'ers, Big D's, Brush 4's - and of course -----

 

 

I came across this short vid the other day. Just look at the reactions of those on the platform - who could not show some emotion at this !!!!

 

 

Brit15