MarkC Posted April 21, 2021 Share Posted April 21, 2021 There were a few completed Raven A2s on eBay last year, iirc, and the prices were eye-watering for some of them. Well in excess of GBP375-400. I am surprised that DJH haven't done another run of them, tbh. Mark 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandra Posted April 21, 2021 Share Posted April 21, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, Tony Wright said: Though I can't speak for Dave Ellis, Tony, I think the limiting factor is always the condition of the moulds. Many of the original Nu-Cast moulds must be shot by now, so a decision has to be made as to whether to produce new ones (and, in some cases, make new patterns). It's down to potential sales, of course, and, without being disparaging to the SR 4-6-0 which you've so kindly illustrated (is it an ex-'Paddlebox'?), and partly because of my suggestion, the K2 was chosen as the next in line. It does fit the criteria of pre-Grouping, 'Big Four' and BR, so it has a long lifetime and also a vast geographical spread - from East Anglia to the West Highlands. If it 'bombs', of course, you'll know who to blame! It does become more and more difficult for the kit manufacturers to make kits (locos, especially) which will sell in sufficient numbers to make them viable. I've heard tales of anything between 25 and 100 needing to be sold before a penny of profit is seen. Many loco kits, of course, remain unmade, for decades. They live in dusty boxes on even more dusty shelves, only to blink in the light when their owners contemplate (yet again) making them, only to be put away again because their owners remember why they were 'abandoned' in the first place. Some are started (the reason for abandonment?) and others do get completed, but are still put away because they won't run. Many are of complex prototypes - the big, most-popular types, thus the most-difficult with all that whirling gear to make! Many are glued together, painted with tar and just plain rubbish. Though I don't do eBay (nor wish to), reports frequently tell of two extremes - excellent models going for a song, or bidding wars taking place resulting in vast sums being handed over for cr@p - 'Ebay madness' is it called? Some rarer kits (like the T14?) might command higher prices, particularly if unmade. In the past, I've seen tempting boxes on second-hand stands at shows containing (potentially) even more tempting contents, only to find the things made - usually very badly. I hope I've now learned to walk away, unless the price is ridiculously low. Speaking of rarer kits, a DJH Limited Edition Raven A2 has recently come my way. It's complete (with all wheels, though no motor) and totally unmade, thus undamaged. It's number 156 out of a total of 175, represents the first two and comes with the six-wheeled tender. Might I ask all out there, what kind of prices do these kits go for on eBay? I've contemplated making it and then selling it on (painted professionally, of course). It might be interesting.................... Regards, Tony. Tony, The Southern 4-6-0 is of course a Drummond T14 also known as a Paddlebox or rather strangely, a Double Breaster! Both these nicknames came about from the enormous splashers over the driving wheels of the original Drummond design. However they were rebuilt by both Urie and Maunsell to produce the locomotive which is the subject of the Nucast kit. They were the most successful of the Drummond 4-6-0s and they lasted for nearly 40 years. One was destroyed in the bombing of Nine Elms during the war. I must say that purely on looks alone they are impressive machines and I do think there would be a market for a model of them for three did survive into BR days. Another consideration is that there is never likely to be an RTR model of one. The danger for a kit manufacturer is that they produce a kit and soon afterwards an RTR model is announced. I thing that is extremely unlikely with the T14. Would I buy one? The answer is no because I already have an old Nucast one to build which I do at some point intend to get round to finishing. I do think one would look great running through Retford with, say, the down Talisman, or would that be sacrilege? Sandra Edited April 21, 2021 by sandra Predictive text error. 1 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 96701 Posted April 21, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 21, 2021 3 hours ago, Tony Wright said: It should Phil, When Norman Solomon was making all the Bytham scenic-side trackwork (using the prototype trackplan), both of us forgot to note the trap point protecting the Down slow/Down north lay-by. Thus, at the initial stage, it wasn't made. Norman made it retrospectively, but only as a dummy; only really noticed from angles such as the picture in question was taken from. I live with it! Regards, Tony. Could a couple of staff members be placed near it under the pre-text of "fixing" it following a report by the signaller? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Sim Posted April 21, 2021 Share Posted April 21, 2021 2 hours ago, Tony Wright said: Thanks John, I've actually acquired an eight-wheeled LNER tender for this A2 as well, from SE Finecast (an A3, high-sided one). I've also acquired the correct bogie wheels as well. Regards, Tony. 2 hours ago, Tony Wright said: But you've already got one..................... My thoughts were to have the Gresley rebuild one as well. how many A3’s do you have 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 30368 Posted April 21, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 21, 2021 Whilst not an LNER modeller really just an admirer, I suspect that you can never have too many A1/A3/A10 Gresley 4-6-2s. What grace and pace! Kind regards, Richard B 4 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium MJI Posted April 21, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 21, 2021 I currently have the fun issue of working on 3 projects (for fun) my main railway and two small projects. The amount I cannot get is very surprising. Big layout DMUs Had to build a GRCW 119, building a Swindon 120 Carriages need a few 2C got 4 so far Wagons OK Small 3 counties area ex MR line in BR WR times Locos of 4 wanted, 1 kit, 1 heavy kit bash, 2 expensive RTR, or a kit and a detail on old model Carriages, need 3 types, kits of 2, 1 none but will ignore Wagons OK as just a few vans Small Cornish branch Locos got them as 45xx Carriages, building a couple of late non corridors from bits and a kit Sunshine. Wagons, lot of Airfix based BUT need a scratch a common hopper So I am having to scratch a DMU Build a loco from various sources Build 2 carriages from various sources Build a few wagons of a common type with no kit or RTR Looks like we will always need to make models. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Tony Wright Posted April 21, 2021 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted April 21, 2021 (edited) 5 hours ago, sandra said: Tony, The Southern 4-6-0 is of course a Drummond T14 also known as a Paddlebox or rather strangely, a Double Breaster! Both these nicknames came about from the enormous splashers over the driving wheels of the original Drummond design. However they were rebuilt by both Urie and Maunsell to produce the locomotive which is the subject of the Nucast kit. They were the most successful of the Drummond 4-6-0s and they lasted for nearly 40 years. One was destroyed in the bombing of Nine Elms during the war. I must say that purely on looks alone they are impressive machines and I do think there would be a market for a model of them for three did survive into BR days. Another consideration is that there is never likely to be an RTR model of one. The danger for a kit manufacturer is that they produce a kit and soon afterwards an RTR model is announced. I thing that is extremely unlikely with the T14. Would I buy one? The answer is no because I already have an old Nucast one to build which I do at some point intend to get round to finishing. I do think one would look great running through Retford with, say, the down Talisman, or would that be sacrilege? Sandra 'I do think one would look great running through Retford with, say, the down Talisman, or would that be sacrilege?' It's now your trainset Sandra, so you can please yourself. It would be interesting to think what Roy would have made of it, however. Regards, Tony. Edited April 21, 2021 by Tony Wright typo error Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Tony Wright Posted April 21, 2021 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted April 21, 2021 3 hours ago, Jesse Sim said: My thoughts were to have the Gresley rebuild one as well. how many A3’s do you have 11, I think; with more to build......................... 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Northmoor Posted April 21, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 21, 2021 I have often found RTR manufacturers' choices of prototypes surprising. Ignoring the faults with the models that we know now, what about the following? Hornby Class 29; a very small class with a short life which only ran in in a limited area in Scotland. At least if they'd made the Class 21 (before the rebuild), unsuccessful though they were, they had a slightly longer life and bigger geographical coverage. Lima (and now Bachmann) Class 117 DMU; these barely operated outside the Paddington suburban area for most of their working lives. If they'd chosen the Class 116 - which admittedly had more variants - it could cover the Cardiff Valleys, the West Midlands and the Central Belt of Scotland. Hornby introduced the LNER B17 long before anyone made a B1, a larger class with longer lives and wider operation. Why did it take so long for the WD 2-8-0 to be introduced by Bachmann? For years, it was runaway winner of the wish-lists, a very large class which apparently ran almost everywhere. How long after Lima's erm, "model" of the GWR 94xx (good body, chassis best not mentioned in polite company), did Bachmann's appear? This was a large class with wide geographical operation across the Western Region. Are EMUs really such poor sellers, so manufacturers are reluctant to produce them? Perhaps I've previously answered this question myself. A lot of modellers are actually locomotive collectors and what they really want is a collection of varied locomotives, including all the rare cops of their youth. They don't necessarily want to model a real railway on which 90% of the trains were the same, day after day. 4 2 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
drmditch Posted April 21, 2021 Share Posted April 21, 2021 6 hours ago, Tony Wright said: Thanks for showing this, It does seem to be a bargain. Off-hand, I don't know what the bogie wheelbase is on a Raven A2, but I imagine it'll be similar to an A3/A4, so a Comet bogie will probably do. The bogie wheels supplied in the DJH kit are the wrong type - having ten-spokes rather than the typical NER 12. Regards, Tony. According to RCTS Vol 2A, bogie wheelbase for the Raven A2 was 6'6". Gresley A1 and A3 was 6'3". Doncaster seems to have preferred the smaller dimension, (Pacifics and B17 and even B1), and Darlington the larger (B16, D49) I don't know whether 1mm will make much difference to you - especially when trying to get the 'bowling alley' to go round corners. Do you know if the A2 kit is reasonably dimensionaly correct? I still hanker after a Z(C7), but don't know whether to trust the DJH kit! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandra Posted April 21, 2021 Share Posted April 21, 2021 53 minutes ago, Tony Wright said: 'I do think one would look great running through Retford with, say, the down Talisman, or would that be sacrilege?' It's now your trainset Sandra, so you can please yourself. It would be interesting to think what Roy would have made of it, however. Regards, Tony. Tony, Roy was always very supportive. He was quite happy for me to run my kit built H15, S15 and Merchant Navy on Retford. I think he was rather keen on the Southern for he urged me to bring a T9 along to run on Retford. He was, how can I put it, less tolerant of anything GWR. In fact he said the initials GWR stood for Gresley Was Right. Sandra 4 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LNER4479 Posted April 21, 2021 Share Posted April 21, 2021 Evening Tony. If you haven't already seen it, this looks like it's going to be quite a layout: There was a piece in last month's BRM about the building of the station hotel but today's update is the first time I've seen the full length of the station. 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andytrains Posted April 21, 2021 Share Posted April 21, 2021 There is a DJH Edition Raven A2 on Ebay at the moment, built. See:- https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/284264953112?hash=item422f82f518:g:axkAAOSwELNgfnkM Andy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon4470 Posted April 21, 2021 Share Posted April 21, 2021 4 minutes ago, andytrains said: There is a DJH Edition Raven A2 on Ebay at the moment, built. See:- https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/284264953112?hash=item422f82f518:g:axkAAOSwELNgfnkM Andy. To me the green looks almost like one of the BR experiments from 1948. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Tony Wright Posted April 21, 2021 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted April 21, 2021 3 hours ago, drmditch said: According to RCTS Vol 2A, bogie wheelbase for the Raven A2 was 6'6". Gresley A1 and A3 was 6'3". Doncaster seems to have preferred the smaller dimension, (Pacifics and B17 and even B1), and Darlington the larger (B16, D49) I don't know whether 1mm will make much difference to you - especially when trying to get the 'bowling alley' to go round corners. Do you know if the A2 kit is reasonably dimensionaly correct? I still hanker after a Z(C7), but don't know whether to trust the DJH kit! I'm sure Comet will make a 6' 6" wheelbase bogie. Or, it wouldn't be difficult to scratch-build a bogie of such dimensions. I built a DJH Raven A2 for a friend many years ago (which was destroyed after intruders broke into his home and threw his model collection against the wall!) and it seemed to be accurate enough. At least the mixture of parts fitted. NER locos with outside cylinders in typical orientation are a nightmare to get round curves, even generous ones. The Pacific was no exception, and I found it wise (as with the B16/1s I've built) to make the chassis electrically-dead; at the same time carving off the insides of the cylinders. The DJH Z (C7) kit dates from the firm's Banbury days and is a bit old-fashioned by today's standards, Never having built one, I cannot comment on how it goes together. I'm sure others will be able to advise. Regards, Tony. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Tony Wright Posted April 21, 2021 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted April 21, 2021 1 hour ago, LNER4479 said: Evening Tony. If you haven't already seen it, this looks like it's going to be quite a layout: There was a piece in last month's BRM about the building of the station hotel but today's update is the first time I've seen the full length of the station. Thanks for that Graham, It looks incredible. I wonder which period will be represented. There appears to be a BR A1 and a garter blue A4 in the shots. Regards, Tony. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Tony Wright Posted April 21, 2021 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted April 21, 2021 19 minutes ago, andytrains said: There is a DJH Edition Raven A2 on Ebay at the moment, built. See:- https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/284264953112?hash=item422f82f518:g:axkAAOSwELNgfnkM Andy. Thanks Andy, The green on the A2 definitely looks odd. I looked at the A1 as well; typical build problems - the firebox is level at the top and the cabsides have not been modified to produce the rake-in where they meet the eaves. The nameplates would appear to be those supplied by DJH - much too big! Regards, Tony. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Tony Teague Posted April 21, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 21, 2021 10 hours ago, sandra said: I do think one would look great running through Retford with, say, the down Talisman, or would that be sacrilege? Even on the Southern, and after two rebuilds the T14's were considered sluggish, and relegated to secondary passenger duties, so despite being an SR loco enthusiast I think one might have to suspend belief more than a little, to see a Paddlebox heading The Talisman! 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium polybear Posted April 21, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 21, 2021 1 hour ago, Tony Wright said: Thanks for that Graham, It looks incredible. I wonder which period will be represented. There appears to be a BR A1 and a garter blue A4 in the shots. Regards, Tony. There are several mentions in the thread of ".....my customer.....". Obviously someone with very deep pockets..... A stunning layout already. 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted April 21, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 21, 2021 6 hours ago, Northmoor said: Hornby introduced the LNER B17 long before anyone made a B1, a larger class with longer lives and wider operation. You're missing the very obvious commercial appeal of the B17. How many people are going to buy a model locomotive because it's named after their favourite South African quadruped? 1 10 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted April 21, 2021 Share Posted April 21, 2021 (edited) The B1 was already planned and was pretty close to release before Mainline was wound up. I think it was going to be the next locomotive model after the LMS 2P 4-4-0. The Modified Hall was also from the same source. Both had their origins in Airfix I believe. Pat Hammond's book with the details are out of reach at the moment. But there was quite a list of projects that were pretty close to finishing and which later appeared from Dapol, Replica or Bachmann. Found it. In the Airfix section with about a dozen other models. LNER B1 Class Mayflower 1982 In the Replica section. "This was in an advanced stage of tooling when Mainline production closed down. Hayes paid for the model to be completed." First released 1987. Jason Edited April 21, 2021 by Steamport Southport 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LNER4479 Posted April 21, 2021 Share Posted April 21, 2021 1 hour ago, polybear said: There are several mentions in the thread of ".....my customer.....". Obviously someone with very deep pockets..... A stunning layout already. Indeed - but much better spent on something like this than setting up a European Super League? 1 5 4 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denbridge Posted April 22, 2021 Share Posted April 22, 2021 8 hours ago, polybear said: There are several mentions in the thread of ".....my customer.....". Obviously someone with very deep pockets..... A stunning layout already. To be fair to the 'customer', he is building the layout himself. He has commisioned the buildings, but boards, track etc he is building himself. 3 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Tony Teague Posted April 22, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 22, 2021 13 minutes ago, Denbridge said: To be fair to the 'customer', he is building the layout himself. He has commisioned the buildings, but boards, track etc he is building himself. Indeed; few of us are competent at everything that the hobby calls for. 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Tony Wright Posted April 22, 2021 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted April 22, 2021 10 hours ago, Tony Teague said: Even on the Southern, and after two rebuilds the T14's were considered sluggish, and relegated to secondary passenger duties, so despite being an SR loco enthusiast I think one might have to suspend belief more than a little, to see a Paddlebox heading The Talisman! Interesting, though, Tony. I saw 'The Talisman'(s) on many occasions, and it was always a Gresley A3, A4 or Peppercorn A1 on it (latterly a diesel flop in the form of an EE Type 4, but, eventually, and terrifically, a 'Deltic'). Being born just over a year before Nationalisation, I doubt if I'd have ever seen a T14, anywhere. Requiring an average speed of around a mile a minute between the two capitals, any smaller 4-6-0 would have struggled, but the Bulleids would have romped away with the eight/nine car Talisman sets. Regards, Tony. 2 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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