RMweb Gold TravisM Posted November 9, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 9, 2020 5 hours ago, Tony Wright said: I thought I mentioned that it was from Doncaster; return to Kings Cross. During spotting days at Retford, there were two morning Doncaster-Kings Cross return expresses. The earlier of the two was worked by the W1 and the later one by GREAT NORTHERN. Thus, if they were out of shops, one would see two unique locomotives in the morning, returning in the afternoon/evening. I don't think the W1 was ever on any preservation list. Its boiler was unique, meaning that once it needed repair (in April 1959), it was withdrawn for scrapping. I never thought one (in either of its guises) would ever be available RTR. Just goes to show, but at least I've had my current one for more than 25 years. Previously, I'd made one modified from a Wills A4 on a scratch-built chassis. It appeared in the RM in the '80s. Regards, Tony. Hi Tony, Thanks for clarifying that it ran from Doncaster to Kings Cross and return. I'm aware it wasn't on any preservation list at the time, just seen as x amount of scrap, but in my happy little world, it and one of the P2 rebuilds made it into preservation. Well, rule 1 can apply in this case 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodcock29 Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 We'll done to all involved with the virtual exhibition. A real bonus when you live on the other side of the world. Andrew 5 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertcwp Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 9 hours ago, thegreenhowards said: The normal W1 turn in 1958 was the 0845 from Hull and 0915 from York which combined at Doncaster and the W1 came on there. On the return It was the 1605 from Kings Cross which split at Doncaster for Leeds/Bradford and York. Booked Monday to Friday summer 1956 formation from Doncaster of the Hull/York-King's Cross service was: BSK(4)*, TSO(64)*, SK(8)*, RSP(39), RU(30), FK(7)*, BSK(4)* (from York); BSK(4)*, TSO(64)*, CK(4-3)*, SK(8)*, BSK(4)*, CK(4-3)* (from Hull). * indicates BR Standard (Mark 1) stock. In practice, some may have been Gresley or Thompson. A 30-seat unclassed restaurant was listed, which was unusual for an East Coast/GN Main Line train. 39 seats in the pantry car (pantry north end) suggests a Gresley one as the Thompson ones (and the final batch of Gresley ones) only had 38 seats. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Tony Wright Posted November 9, 2020 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted November 9, 2020 9 hours ago, AY Mod said: That's me told then. 'Must do better' I think on your report, Andy! Seriously, though this might sound a little bit self-congratulatory, a huge 'WELL DONE' to you and the rest of the team who've put the virtual exhibition together (and a big thank you to Martin Tempest for editing my footage). Apart from a few 'nit-picking' comments, everyone who's responded to my request for feedback (mainly be email, and on here) has said how much they've enjoyed it. A job well done indeed, by all. Kind regards, Tony. 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Tony Wright Posted November 9, 2020 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted November 9, 2020 1 minute ago, robertcwp said: Booked Monday to Friday summer 1956 formation from Doncaster of the Hull/York-King's Cross service was: BSK(4)*, TSO(64)*, SK(8)*, RSP(39), RU(30), FK(7)*, BSK(4)* (from York); BSK(4)*, TSO(64)*, CK(4-3)*, SK(8)*, BSK(4)*, CK(4-3)* (from Hull). * indicates BR Standard (Mark 1) stock. In practice, some may have been Gresley or Thompson. A 30-seat unclassed restaurant was listed, which was unusual for an East Coast/GN Main Line train. 39 seats in the pantry car (pantry north end) suggests a Gresley one as the Thompson ones (and the final batch of Gresley ones) only had 38 seats. Thanks Robert, Apart from the catering cars, the train could be made-up using Bachmann/Hornby Mk.1 cars, then? It certainly fits in with my memories at Retford (though I couldn't have told you the formation). A 13-car rake was too long for Retford's Up platform (Down main as well), so the loco used to stick out towards the crossing (a Doncaster or York A1 after the W1 disappeared) with the rear of its train beyond the platform at the north end. Since I can't recall the train moving up, I assume passengers alighting had to move backwards or forwards as appropriate. The later train, hauled by 60113, used to be long as well. Regards, Tony. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium thegreenhowards Posted November 9, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 9, 2020 45 minutes ago, robertcwp said: Booked Monday to Friday summer 1956 formation from Doncaster of the Hull/York-King's Cross service was: BSK(4)*, TSO(64)*, SK(8)*, RSP(39), RU(30), FK(7)*, BSK(4)* (from York); BSK(4)*, TSO(64)*, CK(4-3)*, SK(8)*, BSK(4)*, CK(4-3)* (from Hull). * indicates BR Standard (Mark 1) stock. In practice, some may have been Gresley or Thompson. A 30-seat unclassed restaurant was listed, which was unusual for an East Coast/GN Main Line train. 39 seats in the pantry car (pantry north end) suggests a Gresley one as the Thompson ones (and the final batch of Gresley ones) only had 38 seats. That’s interesting Robert. It had changed a bit by 1958 when I model it. The 1958 CWN (Thanks to you for providing this) shows the Hull portion at the front (BSK, TSO, SK, BSO, FK) and then the York portion (FO, RK, SO, FK, SK, TSO, BSO). All mark 1 except the FO/RK/SO catering core which I believe was Thompson. Photos sometimes show one or two mark 1s replaced by Gresley or Thompson stock. By 1959 it had acquired the experimental Mk 1 FO, E3083 and I have chosen to model a combination of the ‘58 and ‘59 formations with this coach included (mainly because I’d built the coach from a Southern pride kit and was looking for a train to run it in - somewhat the wrong way round!). The photo below shows the train running on my layout, Gresley Jn. And this video shows the full train. Andy 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium thegreenhowards Posted November 9, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 9, 2020 45 minutes ago, Tony Wright said: Thanks Robert, Apart from the catering cars, the train could be made-up using Bachmann/Hornby Mk.1 cars, then? It certainly fits in with my memories at Retford (though I couldn't have told you the formation). A 13-car rake was too long for Retford's Up platform (Down main as well), so the loco used to stick out towards the crossing (a Doncaster or York A1 after the W1 disappeared) with the rear of its train beyond the platform at the north end. Since I can't recall the train moving up, I assume passengers alighting had to move backwards or forwards as appropriate. The later train, hauled by 60113, used to be long as well. Regards, Tony. I’m trying to work out which later train was hauled by 60113 (for future reference in case I ever build it). I can’t see a likely candidate in the CWN. The next likely train I can see was the 1230 from Hull which had a portion starting from Doncaster. However this was quite a short train (8 or 9 coaches in 1958) and was a regular for Deltic by 1959 which suggests it was a Kings Cross turn. Tony, Is it possible you are thinking about the Saturday workings as I can see several likely candidates on a Saturday? Of course, we’re only talking about a relatively short window when both engines were at Doncaster (Oct ‘57 to Jun ‘59). Prior to that I assume 60113 did something completely different. Regards Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Tony Wright Posted November 9, 2020 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted November 9, 2020 4 hours ago, thegreenhowards said: I’m trying to work out which later train was hauled by 60113 (for future reference in case I ever build it). I can’t see a likely candidate in the CWN. The next likely train I can see was the 1230 from Hull which had a portion starting from Doncaster. However this was quite a short train (8 or 9 coaches in 1958) and was a regular for Deltic by 1959 which suggests it was a Kings Cross turn. Tony, Is it possible you are thinking about the Saturday workings as I can see several likely candidates on a Saturday? Of course, we’re only talking about a relatively short window when both engines were at Doncaster (Oct ‘57 to Jun ‘59). Prior to that I assume 60113 did something completely different. Regards Andy It could well be a Saturday, Andy, I'm relying entirely on the memory of 12-year old, 62 years ago. I never saw either locos returning. We were under strict instructions to be back by 6.00 pm, for tea. Regards, Tony. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold MikeParkin65 Posted November 9, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 9, 2020 Very much enjoyed the bits of the show that I saw. Enjoyed your video on loco maintenance - you've got proper presenting skills! I suppose one issue is that its a different use of the time normally spent at a show - I mean I am often conflicted between going to a show and using the winter weekends for actual modelling. With the online show I can dip in and out again and be modelling at the same time. Very much appreciated the layouts I saw and probably say more of them than I would at a show in any case (and of course for those layouts that never leave home this is probably the only way most of us will see any of them). Didnt buy anything (but then have been spending more on line with the same suppliers this year in any case). 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidw Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 Good afternoon Tony, I'd just like to add my comments to others with respect to the show. Content wise I thought it was excellent a great mix for all interests. The only downside was that viewing the show on a mobile was that the amount of data per page downloaded was considerable and exceeded my phones capacity. It's not an old phone. I've since view all I need on a PC. Regards, David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium MJI Posted November 9, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 9, 2020 We know what kit building is and scratchbuilding. What is it called when you buy bits from all over the place and make a model like that? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted November 9, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 9, 2020 13 minutes ago, MJI said: We know what kit building is and scratchbuilding. What is it called when you buy bits from all over the place and make a model like that? I do that, and have been described as a "compiler" of models. I rather like "hunter-gatherer" myself. Mind you, the bits seldom add up to a kit so if you make the rest, I'd define it as semi-scratchbuilding. My parts-gathering more often leads to upcycling some unfortunate r-t-r victim, and I call that "hacking". John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertcwp Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 9 hours ago, thegreenhowards said: I’m trying to work out which later train was hauled by 60113 (for future reference in case I ever build it). I can’t see a likely candidate in the CWN. The next likely train I can see was the 1230 from Hull which had a portion starting from Doncaster. However this was quite a short train (8 or 9 coaches in 1958) and was a regular for Deltic by 1959 which suggests it was a Kings Cross turn. Tony, Is it possible you are thinking about the Saturday workings as I can see several likely candidates on a Saturday? Of course, we’re only talking about a relatively short window when both engines were at Doncaster (Oct ‘57 to Jun ‘59). Prior to that I assume 60113 did something completely different. Regards Andy On Retford, Roy Jackson had 60113 on the 4.45 pm Doncaster-Grantham. No idea whether that was a regular working or not. Roy had 60700 on the 8.45 am Hull/9.15 am York-King’s Cross. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SP Steve Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 (edited) I've been doing a little bit of digital filing and stumbled across the following which I think may be up your street Tony. Taken by a colleague of mine, the image shows an unnamed D9019 heading away from Retford in June 1962. From the reaction of the sitters on the wall they've seen it all before but I'm wondering if D9019 is running on a single engine as I can only see one faint exhaust plume. Edited March 31, 2022 by SP Steve 16 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
2750Papyrus Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 I would have been in the middle of my 'O' levels. My Dad and I were excited by the new Deltics. The two tone green hinted at previous Doncaster liveries but the addition of yellow warning panels killed that fancy. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium thegreenhowards Posted November 9, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 9, 2020 58 minutes ago, robertcwp said: On Retford, Roy Jackson had 60113 on the 4.45 pm Doncaster-Grantham. No idea whether that was a regular working or not. Roy had 60700 on the 8.45 am Hull/9.15 am York-King’s Cross. I think the W1 on that train is fairly well documented. The 1645 Doncaster-Grantham sounds a bit light weight for 60113. More of a running in turn? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post westerner Posted November 9, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted November 9, 2020 (edited) Not sure what's going on on Tony's thread as it moves at such a pace. However a report from the far east of Norfolk about the the goings on in the Forest of Dean. As Tony likes us to show our work I thought I'd post a couple of photos of the bridge I built at the fiddle yard end of the layout to hide to rather large holes in the backscene. I built a rather unusual bridge based on a Tram/wagon way bridge called Cullamore Bridge which led to Lightmore Colliery and was used after the Tramway was taken to bring feedstuff for the horses at Eastern United Colliery. The fence was built of Balsa (nothing looks better as wood than wood. The piers were constructed of 4mm foamboard and covered with Slaters stone sheets. The decking used Balsa again, supported by Evergreen H girders. It was a girder bridge. Originally wood but later second hand iron girders. The bridge was then painted, detailed and weathered by me. for photographic purposes two small boards were made to enable the backscene to be continued onto the sector plate fiddle yard. Edited November 9, 2020 by westerner missed a comma 24 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Popular Post Tony Wright Posted November 9, 2020 Author RMweb Gold Popular Post Share Posted November 9, 2020 55 minutes ago, MJI said: We know what kit building is and scratchbuilding. What is it called when you buy bits from all over the place and make a model like that? An interesting exercise in semantics. Do we all know what the difference between scratch-building and kit-building is? Or, is it a matter of opinion? For the likes of Sid Stubbs, scratch-building meant making everything, including wheels and motor. I don't think he went as far as smelting his own metal, but there was no reliance on commercially-made parts - just stock metal. For the likes of myself, scratch-building means making the main body parts from brass or nickel silver stock. As with this ancient O1; 44 years old and counting. The frames, footplate, boiler, cab, buffer beam, etc., are made from brass stock, cut to size/shape with traditional metalwork tools, then soldered together. All the fittings (and certainly the wheels/motor/gears) were bought-in, mainly from EAMES. The tender is K's (so, the loco is part scratch-built?). The whole thing is rather crude (it's been seen before), but its value was more as part of a learning curve. In the intervening years, a decent kit appeared (Little Engines), and disappeared, and now we have Hornby's RTR rendition (which knocks the thing above into a cocked hat). However, in the '70s (and later), if one wanted an O1 then scratch-building was the only way. More-recently seen, but this time built nearly 30 years ago; my scratch-built K4. Again, most fittings came from EAMES/Kings Cross. I think it's accepted (or at least to me) that 'scratch-building' means making something which isn't from a kit, even though many detail parts are bought-in. Regards, Tony. 15 3 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Tony Wright Posted November 9, 2020 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted November 9, 2020 1 hour ago, SP Steve said: I've been doing a little bit of digital filing and stumbled across the following which I think may be up your street Tony. Taken by a colleague of mine, the image shows an unnamed D9019 heading away from Retford in June 1962. From the reaction of the sitters on the wall they've seen it all before but I'm wondering if D9019 is running on a single engine as I can only see one faint exhaust plume. A brilliant shot, Steve, Thanks for showing us. The Deltic might not be actually under way; just ready to go. It was quite common to have the longer trains sticking out from the platform like that. Regards, Tony. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Tony Wright Posted November 9, 2020 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted November 9, 2020 I've mentioned scratch-building, now it's carrying on with kit-building................... The DJH 8F progresses well........... The basic tender body. I think the etching tools must be getting a little 'weary' by now, because none of the tabs fitted the slots (particularly the rear tank steps) - an irritating situation needing too much fettling. No problems here, though............... Until trying to fit the sandbox fillers into their etched/cast apertures. A bit of drilling was necessary. A nice touch is the two different sizes of lubricators - the RH one is (correctly) larger. Not much further to go now....................... 15 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Northmoor Posted November 9, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 9, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Tony Wright said: I've mentioned scratch-building, now it's carrying on with kit-building................... I read that as Carry On Kit Building; one of the series that was, sadly, never made! I'm imagining Charles Haughtrey battling with a Jidenco kit, struggling not to be distracted by Barbara Windsor in the next door garden and Kenneth Williams entering the modelling den, gasping with an "Oo-oohh!" at our hero's handiwork. Edited November 9, 2020 by Northmoor 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 65179 Posted November 9, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 9, 2020 18 minutes ago, Tony Wright said: Until trying to fit the sandbox fillers into their etched/cast apertures. A bit of drilling was necessary. A nice touch is the two different sizes of lubricators - the RH one is (correctly) larger. Tony Have you got your lubricators on the right way round? They are differently arranged to those on preserved 48305 and 48431: This Black 5 by contrast has them as you've modelled them: Simon 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Tony Wright Posted November 9, 2020 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted November 9, 2020 (edited) 10 hours ago, 65179 said: Tony Have you got your lubricators on the right way round? They are differently arranged to those on preserved 48305 and 48431: This Black 5 by contrast has them as you've modelled them: Simon I think so, Simon, The larger one is to the right.................. Regards, Tony. Edited November 10, 2020 by Tony Wright typo error Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 65179 Posted November 9, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 9, 2020 11 minutes ago, Tony Wright said: I thinks so, Simon, The larger one is to the right.................. Regards, Tony. Sorry Tony I didn't explain myself well enough. I think the part of each lubricator you have facing the boiler should in fact be facing outwards. Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium thegreenhowards Posted November 9, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 9, 2020 8 hours ago, Tony Wright said: It could well be a Saturday, Andy, I'm relying entirely on the memory of 12-year old, 62 years ago. I never saw either locos returning. We were under strict instructions to be back by 6.00 pm, for tea. Regards, Tony. I don’t remember much of my 12 year old spotting. It would have been mainly 4-CEPS, SUBS and EPBs with an occasional crompton thrown in for a treat and on a very special day a trip to Finsbury Park to drool over Deltics. I don't remember any details from that period, so I’m impressed with your Retford recollections! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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