Porcy Mane Posted September 15, 2020 Share Posted September 15, 2020 (edited) Springside head lumps can be improved by removing the integral carrying handle and replacing it with wire but in the current era why bother, when there's the vastly improved lamps available from Mr Franks and ModelU. A Springside lamp of yesteryear. P Edited September 16, 2020 by Porcy Mane Clartzify. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted September 15, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 15, 2020 On 14/09/2020 at 12:26, Clive Mortimore said: What I do try to represent is the types of locomotives and DMUs that would have operated over the former L&YR lines crossing from one side of the Pennines to the other and the types that were at home on the GNR lines. I know I have made believe there are services to and from Grimbsy and Cleethorpes, and I don't have any GCR types but they do have LNER designed locos when steam is the order of the day. I also add a few North Eastern Region locos into the mix on the York and Leeds trains but B16s did tend to wander about a tad. Sometimes the devil takes over and all of a sudden Exchange has imaginary OLE and 3rd rail or even Western Region diesels. Where is the fun in adhering to self imposed strict rules. My locos are the types, and where possible actual numbers allocated around or seen working through the area of my ficticious layout in the period 1956-61. It is set in the West Midlands in a bit that was ringed and crossed by various LNWR and GWR lines and based on a 'might have been' had some proposals come to fruition and other falling out of owners not taken place. The proximity of Wolverhampton Works meant foreign locos passing through en route and ex-works locos being snaffled by Oxley or Stafford Road on the pretext of running-in turns, such as a 97xx Condenser on the Swan Village trip or a 15xx in a Wolverhampton - Worcester - Stratford upon Avon diagram. Dudley Zoo specials also produced a variety of locos including B1s and Brush type 2s coming in from the Eastern Region. The more mundane produced out-of-the-ordinary sights such as a Jubilee working special coal train from the Walsall area to Hartlebury for Stourport Power Station or a Holbeck Royal Scot on ECS from a Troop Train. One GWR branch normally populated only by a 57xx on the Withymoor trip and a flying banana or 64xx and auto coach got cleared as a Dotted Red route because it linked two other lines to form an alternative route between Snow Hill and Wolverhampton. This meant that it sometimes had Castles on Class A trains when the main route was closed for engineering work. The 'Devil' factor comes into play when at the weekend I run a Footex for the FA Cup, Bulleid and Maunsell stock hauled by a Spamcam, or a 'CrankEx' hauled by a T9, diesel 10001, LNWR Coal Tank, double headed Pannier Tank and Fowler 4F or a pair of Super Ds. Oh, and just for good measure Palethorpes loading dock is being included, and a few 'personal' items, 4565 which I rode behind on the Newquay Chacewater train actually got to Wolverhampton Works, 90033 my first WD sighting will haul the Bilston Iron Ore and 46146 will sneak in somewhere because both my father and grandfather were Riflemen. 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold johndon Posted September 15, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 15, 2020 While we are on the subject of lamps, I'm currently modelling the train in the photo (copyright Stephen McGahon) below. I assume that the last 16T wagon in the train would be carrying a tail lamp (not sure if this matters, but this is May 1982 on the Tyne Dock to Consett line) but, as 16T wagons were not fitted with lamp irons, how would the lamp be attached? John 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 31A Posted September 15, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 15, 2020 1 minute ago, johndon said: While we are on the subject of lamps, I'm currently modelling the train in the photo (copyright Stephen McGahon) below. I assume that the last 16T wagon in the train would be carrying a tail lamp (not sure if this matters, but this is May 1982 on the Tyne Dock to Consett line) but, as 16T wagons were not fitted with lamp irons, how would the lamp be attached? John It must be a fully fitted train as it has no brake van; vacuum brake fitted wagons were fitted with lamp irons for that reason, so the last wagon would have a tail lamp on its lamp iron. 2 2 1 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold johndon Posted September 15, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 15, 2020 1 minute ago, 31A said: It must be a fully fitted train as it has no brake van; vacuum brake fitted wagons were fitted with lamp irons for that reason, so the last wagon would have a tail lamp on its lamp iron. Thanks for that, you learn something new everyday. Time for a good look at Mr Bartletts site... John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 31A Posted September 15, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 15, 2020 1 minute ago, johndon said: Thanks for that, you learn something new everyday. Time for a good look at Mr Bartletts site... John I had a look myself to check I was right! https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/mineralmortonmxv 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PMP Posted September 15, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 15, 2020 4 minutes ago, johndon said: , as 16T wagons were not fitted with lamp irons, how would the lamp be attached? John I have seen a couple of images where the lamp was hung on the hook of the screw/instanter coupling. I suspect it was very unusual, a caption noted it as such. 3 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted September 15, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 15, 2020 17 minutes ago, PMP said: I have seen a couple of images where the lamp was hung on the hook of the screw/instanter coupling. I suspect it was very unusual, a caption noted it as such. The handle on a tail lamp was designed to be hung from a coupling hook. There were certain places where it was permitted to move wagons without a brake van e.g. between sidings at opposite ends of stations. These were listed in the Sectional Appendix. A tail lamp had to be carried on the last vehicle. 4 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PMP Posted September 15, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 15, 2020 ^^ Thats probably what was in the image. Now you mention it I recall wondering about the handle shape, seeing the pic, and thinking Ah..., Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porcy Mane Posted September 15, 2020 Share Posted September 15, 2020 22 minutes ago, PMP said: I suspect it was very unusual, a caption noted it as such A regular occurrence on freight only lines around Tyneside and Teeside in the steam age when the working appendices stipulated unfitted freights trains could travel without a brake van. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Chamby Posted September 15, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 15, 2020 On the subject of lamps, no mention has been made yet of the working lamps available from DCC Concepts. I am in the process of fitting a few of these, working lamps seem to be rarely modelled. Here is one of their LNER lamps fitted to a Bachmann brake van, it works on both DC and DCC. I would like to dim the light a bit more using a higher resistor to those supplied with it, and there is a little bit of light bleed through the base of the lamp that could probably do with an extra coat of paint. The lamps are perhaps a little oversized but look the part with a very fine wire handle. They supply red, red-and-white and white LED's in a number of different styles to suit the 'big four'. In a room with dimmed lighting, dusk-like, they certainly add something to watching the trains go by. 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium St Enodoc Posted September 16, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 16, 2020 8 hours ago, 31A said: On rolling stock which doesn't have lamp irons that can be used, I often make them from offcuts of small office staples. I use staples and fit micromagnets to the lamps. 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jamie92208 Posted September 16, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 16, 2020 (edited) 13 hours ago, TheSignalEngineer said: The handle on a tail lamp was designed to be hung from a coupling hook. There were certain places where it was permitted to move wagons without a brake van e.g. between sidings at opposite ends of stations. These were listed in the Sectional Appendix. A tail lamp had to be carried on the last vehicle. Lancaster Green Ayre was one such place where the main reception sidings were eastvof the station but the goods yard and shed were west and the track layout demanded a propelling move. According to a retired fireman I talked to they had a stock of modified lamps for these moves. These had a long strap on one side so that the could be hung between the drawhook and the buffer shank, with the lamp near the drawhook. I was told that these lamps were kept outside the yatd office so I need to model them. Does anyone know what colour Midland Goods lamps would have been in 1923. Jamie Edited September 16, 2020 by jamie92208 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Tony Wright Posted September 16, 2020 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted September 16, 2020 8 hours ago, Chamby said: On the subject of lamps, no mention has been made yet of the working lamps available from DCC Concepts. I am in the process of fitting a few of these, working lamps seem to be rarely modelled. Here is one of their LNER lamps fitted to a Bachmann brake van, it works on both DC and DCC. I would like to dim the light a bit more using a higher resistor to those supplied with it, and there is a little bit of light bleed through the base of the lamp that could probably do with an extra coat of paint. The lamps are perhaps a little oversized but look the part with a very fine wire handle. They supply red, red-and-white and white LED's in a number of different styles to suit the 'big four'. In a room with dimmed lighting, dusk-like, they certainly add something to watching the trains go by. That looks very effective, Phil (though do alter the roof profile on that adjacent Bachmann Thompson BG). Train Tech makes a similar lighting unit....... It needs a lick of white paint once attached. And the leads from the LED need painting to disguise them. I deliberately exposed this shot to show the light effect. In normal lighting, it isn't this bright! It was fitted to a Bachmann brake van and appeared in Bachmann Times. The figure disguises the leads. The installation was quite straightforward (inside the cabin), and a 'disc'-type small battery supplies the power. It's motion-sensitive, so, when not in use, the lamp goes out. I don't bother with working lights/lamps on LB, so I gave it away to a friend's young son. Regards, Tony. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Tony Wright Posted September 16, 2020 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted September 16, 2020 (edited) More on Bytham's lamps......................... Another example of the over-scale Springside BR lamps. In comparison with LMS' LNER ones. Remember, please: these images blow the lamps up in size to Gauge 3 and more! Springside's LNER lamps are nearer scale than their BR ones, though the handles are a bit chunky. These have had their handles replaced with wire. An improvement, though not recommended unless one only has one or two locos! LMS' tail lamps are really good. As are ModelU's (fitted to Tom Foster's weathered GWR brake van). Don't forget, non fully-fitted freights carried side lamps on the brake vans as well. Easy where rakes only go one way, I admit - but a tail lamp is essential as well on passenger trains (though this one's slightly wonky). Another advantage of one-way fixed rakes is that a dummy buckeye coupling and pipes can be installed; no nasty tension-lock sticking out here! Edited September 16, 2020 by Tony Wright to add something 15 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Sanderson Posted September 16, 2020 Share Posted September 16, 2020 1 hour ago, Tony Wright said: More on Bytham's lamps......................... Another example of the over-scale Springside BR lamps. In comparison with LMS' LNER ones. Remember, please: these images blow the lamps up in size to Gauge 3 and more! Springside's LNER lamps are nearer scale than their BR ones, though the handles are a bit chunky. Hi Tony, those lamps really make the model! I love the Doncaster A1 too, a proper loco! Have you looked at the DCC Concepts LNER loco lamps? They're slightly more expensive, but they can light up (although I think you won't want this function!) They are also 'too scale' and look the business. I have loads I need to fit to my models! Stay safe and happy modelling, Dylan. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Headstock Posted September 16, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted September 16, 2020 I've been getting my own lamps 3d printed for quite some time, before they became available from modelu and LMS. They were produced by John Marsh of Shipley Model Railway Society. His LNER designs have been used by both LMS for the basis of their white metal ones and 3d printed by Modelu. One that I Use is regularly is the LNER passenger tail lamp, as opposed the the LNER loco tail lamp or LNER Guards van tail lamp. The Guards van tail is lamp is in the modelu range but not the passenger carriage tail lamp. The fixed side to side loop is very distinctive as seen doubled up on the likes of the Coronation through to the Elizabethan in BR days. 19 1 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScRSG Posted September 16, 2020 Share Posted September 16, 2020 1 hour ago, Tony Wright said: LMS tail lamps. I thought I recognised this place! One of our number is obsessed with lamps on brake vans! Chas 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Headstock Posted September 16, 2020 Share Posted September 16, 2020 (edited) And the LNER Guards van tail lamp. Edited September 16, 2020 by Headstock 10 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium St Enodoc Posted September 16, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 16, 2020 To be absolutely frank, I'd rather see an overscale Springside lamp than that awful LED tail lamp. 9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium St Enodoc Posted September 16, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 16, 2020 5 hours ago, jamie92208 said: Lancaster Green Ayre was one such place where the main re eption sidings were eastvof the station but the goods yard ans shed werecwest and the track layout demanded a propelling move. According to a retired fireman I talked to they had a stock of modified lamps for these moves. These had a long strap on one side so that the could be hung between the drawhook and the buffer shank, with the lamp near the drawhook. I was told that these lamps were kept outside the yatd office si I need to model them. Does anyone know what colour Midland Goods lamps would have been in 1923. Jamie Jamie, I think you either need a new keyboard or a new set of fingers. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Tony Wright Posted September 16, 2020 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted September 16, 2020 3 hours ago, Dylan Sanderson said: Hi Tony, those lamps really make the model! I love the Doncaster A1 too, a proper loco! Have you looked at the DCC Concepts LNER loco lamps? They're slightly more expensive, but they can light up (although I think you won't want this function!) They are also 'too scale' and look the business. I have loads I need to fit to my models! Stay safe and happy modelling, Dylan. Thanks Dylan, The Doncaster A1 (60125) is a modified Bachmann example, complete with replacement etched brass smoke deflectors, new bogie wheels, all the wiggly pipes and it's been renumbered/renamed/weathered. Regards, Tony. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Tony Wright Posted September 16, 2020 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted September 16, 2020 2 hours ago, ScRSG said: LMS tail lamps. I thought I recognised this place! One of our number is obsessed with lamps on brake vans! Chas It is indeed, Chas. No less a location than the wonderful Alloa! Regards, Tony. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Tony Wright Posted September 16, 2020 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted September 16, 2020 (edited) I've just started taking pictures of Hornby's latest large Prairie................. Not having conducted any research yet (and in a plea for assistance), is this a post-War manifestation? Or pre-War? I took this one out of its box, and the roof promptly fell off! A friend's just bought one, and a driving wheel fell off his!!!!! Same question; pre- or post-War? Both of these run beautifully on my test track , and this afternoon I'll take some moving footage of them on LB. I don't have any pictures of the previous Hornby 51XX/61XX Classes (were they ex-Arfix?), but I didn't know that the central 'strap' on the boiler stood proud. On ones I've built, I've soldered it flush. 61XXs (Wills/SEF kits) have appeared on Little Bytham before....................... A very good runner this one.................... Note, the central strap flush. Edited September 16, 2020 by Tony Wright 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Tony Wright Posted September 16, 2020 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted September 16, 2020 1 hour ago, St Enodoc said: To be absolutely frank, I'd rather see an overscale Springside lamp than that awful LED tail lamp. I assume it's the one I posted pictures of, John, I think it's sold as a bit of a 'gimmick', really. Something to appeal to younger modellers? The lad I gave the illuminated brake van to was delighted with it. It might be 'awful' to you (and I'd never use it), but doesn't such a thing 'have its place'? Even if only to encourage the young? Regards, Tony. 2 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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