Lecorbusier Posted September 2, 2020 Share Posted September 2, 2020 1 hour ago, Joseph_Pestell said: But when the writers of the news bulletin, not the presenters, can not construct a sentence so it means what they want it to mean, it devalues the news story. If by that you mean that it is open to misunderstanding or misinterpretation I could not disagree. However if both the nuance and meaning are clear and concise, then I tend to be more relaxed. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Barry Ten Posted September 2, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 2, 2020 4 hours ago, Tony Wright said: Top drawer in 4mm modelling? Geoff Haynes built and painted this Mitchell 'Castle' in P4. Another fine 'Castle', this time in EM, running on Robert Dudley-Cooke's Kingstorre. SR locos also operate on Kingstorre. Always nice to see some photos of Kingstorre. I think it may be one of my favorite layouts, based on the magazine articles and videos. It hits just the right spot between freelance and prototype, in my view. Now, (while indulging in a split-infinitive) may I gently take Sir to task over one grammatical matter? I would suggest that the hyphen in: The weathering is very-natural. is in error. This would be a correctly hyphenated usage, but the hyphen could still be omitted without loss of clarity: Note the very-natural weathering, see: https://www.editorgroup.com/blog/to-hyphenate-or-not-to-hyphenate/ Al 2 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willie Whizz Posted September 2, 2020 Share Posted September 2, 2020 On the subject of pronunciation, it is very instructive to listen to the way HM the Queen's own English has evolved over the years, as for example demonstrated in her Christmas Broadcasts. The BBC is often - even now - regarded as the fount of "posh" spoken English, but whatever accent HM used to use it certainly wasn't 'Received Pronunciation' as somewhat standardised by the BBC in days of yore. Anyone who has watched the first series of The Crown on Netflix (highly recommended, by the way) will catch a flavour of the high-pitched strangulated tones she used to use, but I'm pretty certain even that was dialled-down considerably so as to be more fully intelligible to modern British ears, let alone the American audience. 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Iain Mac Posted September 2, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 2, 2020 "With Hornby's P2 available, who needs to do this sort of thing now?" Anyone wanting a decent P2.... My pal has had all sorts of issues with his D B. Version and regrets not just plumping for the railroad 'bog standard' version to cut about and improve. Spec and features wise it was very much a case of Hornby plumping for the "ah, but I saw you coming" reasoning. He's also just recieved an A2/2 of Waverley, PDK kit and feeling sorry for himself with Hornby announcing their forthcoming. I don't know why myself, even ex-crownline beats rtr hands down. Particularly when you have to take the surgeons implements of reconstruction out to get what you want. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mark C Posted September 2, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 2, 2020 8 hours ago, jacko said: I lived in Stotfold for a year or so in about 1985 while I worked at ICL in Letchworth. Hated living so far south away from a decent pint. What? Abbott Ale not to your liking...??!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam88 Posted September 2, 2020 Share Posted September 2, 2020 7 hours ago, Tony Wright said: Perhaps Tim, However, we have no one to replace the likes of Sylvia Peters, Richard Dimbleby or Raymond Glendenning (I hope I've spelled their names correctly). Perfect diction, perfect pronunciation, perfect annunciation and impossible to misunderstand. Or, am I just nostalgic for a time when steam locos ruled our rails? Regards, Tony. Enunciation surely! 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 96701 Posted September 2, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 2, 2020 8 minutes ago, Mark C said: What? Abbott Ale not to your liking...??!! Must admit, speaking as a northerner (Lancastrian near the Yorkshire Dales) none of the Greene King brews have been to my liking. My first pint of real ale was in 1973 and was Theakston's Bitter when it as still brewed at Masham. What a revelation! We spoke to the barman who showed us a very slim volume entitled "The Good Beer Guide". There were 2 pubs in there that brewed their own beer. These had to be tried first, then closer to home we discovered Boddingtons Bitter brewed at Strangeways. Now there was a force to be reckoned with, the eighth pint tasted as good as the first. Sorry, Greene King beers just do not come close, the nearest that I have to the last pint tasting as good as the first is Oakham Beers JHB, another good session beer with lots of flavour. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack P Posted September 2, 2020 Share Posted September 2, 2020 7 hours ago, Tony Wright said: With Hornby's forthcoming A2/2 (this actual engine as one) there'll now be no need for this sort of inventiveness; another 'loss' to the hobby. Oh I don't know. There will always be people who want to do things themselves and will use RTR as a platform for further modelling. Plus, as the RTR companies produce more of the 'common' locomotives it provides the opportunity to focus on some uncommon ones - be that from kits, or scratchbuilding. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Tony Wright Posted September 2, 2020 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted September 2, 2020 54 minutes ago, Iain Mac said: "With Hornby's P2 available, who needs to do this sort of thing now?" Anyone wanting a decent P2.... My pal has had all sorts of issues with his D B. Version and regrets not just plumping for the railroad 'bog standard' version to cut about and improve. Spec and features wise it was very much a case of Hornby plumping for the "ah, but I saw you coming" reasoning. He's also just recieved an A2/2 of Waverley, PDK kit and feeling sorry for himself with Hornby announcing their forthcoming. I don't know why myself, even ex-crownline beats rtr hands down. Particularly when you have to take the surgeons implements of reconstruction out to get what you want. I'm puzzled Iain, Not an unusual situation, mind. You say your pal has received an A2/2 of 'Waverley'. May I suggest he returns it forthwith? You see WAVERLEY (60509) is not an A2/2; it's an A2/1, and Hornby is not producing that Thompson variant. The four 'Orphans of the Storm' (according to Thompson) were originally intended to be the last four V2s, built at Darlington. However, Thompson had them turned out as Pacifics; Pacifics which shared the same boiler and firebox as the V2s, meaning they cannot be built in model form using the commonality between the A2/2s and A2/3s (which had different boilers and larger fireboxes). When I was assisting Hornby in the development of the Thompson Pacifics, the A2/1s were mentioned, and it was decided that too much new tooling would be necessary to produce the quartet. What I think you'll find is that your mate's 60509 is actually an A2/1, which won't be available RTR, nor, in my opinion, ever will be. Regarding Hornby's P2, I don't know whether you saw the little DVD I was involved with which showed the loco on test on Little Bytham. The model wasn't even in the shops at the time, and I had the privilege of assessing it. It was (is) an astonishing model, and at a price that's unbeatable. I had to add more weight to my kit-built A2/2 (which the P2s became) to match the Hornby P2's haulage ability! If Hornby 'saw you coming', then it was to greet you with a very fine product indeed. What 'issues' has your friend had with it, please? Regards, Tony. 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Tony Wright Posted September 2, 2020 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted September 2, 2020 (edited) 22 minutes ago, Adam88 said: Enunciation surely! Perhaps, But 'annunciation' means an announcement, which is what broadcaster proclaim (enunciate); isn't it? Perhaps my context is wrong. If so, my apologies. As I say; isn't English wonderful? Regards, Tony. Edited September 2, 2020 by Tony Wright 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacko Posted September 2, 2020 Share Posted September 2, 2020 50 minutes ago, Mark C said: What? Abbott Ale not to your liking...??!! Not back then. I'd been brought up on McKewen's best Scotch, a dark ale. Abbott was a bit too hoppy for my tastes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Iain Mac Posted September 2, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 2, 2020 11 minutes ago, Tony Wright said: I'm puzzled Iain, Not an unusual situation, mind. You say your pal has received an A2/2 of 'Waverley'. May I suggest he returns it forthwith? You see WAVERLEY (60509) is not an A2/2; it's an A2/1, and Hornby is not producing that Thompson variant. The four 'Orphans of the Storm' (according to Thompson) were originally intended to be the last four V2s, built at Darlington. However, Thompson had them turned out as Pacifics; Pacifics which shared the same boiler and firebox as the V2s, meaning they cannot be built in model form using the commonality between the A2/2s and A2/3s (which had different boilers and larger fireboxes). When I was assisting Hornby in the development of the Thompson Pacifics, the A2/1s were mentioned, and it was decided that too much new tooling would be necessary to produce the quartet. What I think you'll find is that your mate's 60509 is actually an A2/1, which won't be available RTR, nor, in my opinion, ever will be. Regarding Hornby's P2, I don't know whether you saw the little DVD I was involved with which showed the loco on test on Little Bytham. The model wasn't even in the shops at the time, and I had the privilege of assessing it. It was (is) an astonishing model, and at a price that's unbeatable. I had to add more weight to my kit-built A2/2 (which the P2s became) to match the Hornby P2's haulage ability! If Hornby 'saw you coming', then it was to greet you with a very fine product indeed. What 'issues' has your friend had with it, please? Regards, Tony. It is indeed the A2/1, my mistake on misrepresenting the class. I could blame the phone or fat fingers but alass, I'll hold my hands up. The tooling for the bells and whistles P2 price point is so close to the railroad version that no amount of under bonnet gubbins makes up for the fact that to get a model you'd hope for the bells and whistles version expense is an "I saw you coming" sales pitch. Or words to that effect I believe were used. Moulded hand rails and coal load being amongst the desired changes. Items seperately applied on the pacifics and not difficult to assume (I'm a CAD designer across various softwares including injection mould design) to include at the higher spec. Moulded front buffers rather than sprung were also mentioned but it won't be running tender first under load so i don't take that particular point myself. The mechanism might perform but the railroad version is a better value starting point for fettling I think his realisation is. I do recall your video, probly got the dvd from BRM somewhere, but I've had a few years of life under my belt since running around after a young un to recall the finer points. Incidently. It was a copy of your build review/process of the Crownline A2/1 from BRM 1999/2000? era that I supplied the builder for his guidance. P2's never got over the Waverley so the finer points in terms of Hornby's accuracy of rendition I don't know and can not comment on. They've never been high on my research list and I certainly never witnessed the original builds in any guise. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacko Posted September 2, 2020 Share Posted September 2, 2020 37 minutes ago, 96701 said: Must admit, speaking as a northerner (Lancastrian near the Yorkshire Dales) none of the Greene King brews have been to my liking. My first pint of real ale was in 1973 and was Theakston's Bitter when it as still brewed at Masham. What a revelation! We spoke to the barman who showed us a very slim volume entitled "The Good Beer Guide". There were 2 pubs in there that brewed their own beer. These had to be tried first, then closer to home we discovered Boddingtons Bitter brewed at Strangeways. Now there was a force to be reckoned with, the eighth pint tasted as good as the first. Sorry, Greene King beers just do not come close, the nearest that I have to the last pint tasting as good as the first is Oakham Beers JHB, another good session beer with lots of flavour. I moved from Stotfold to Leeds so had the joys of Theakstons, Tetleys and Timothy Taylors ales on the doorstep. Funnily enough, though I live in Scotland now, I rarely drink beer apart from during my annual holidays to the Lake district. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted September 2, 2020 Share Posted September 2, 2020 I don't think Hornby have done a "bells and whistles" P2. It was part of the misjudged Design Clever era along with models such as 71000 Duke Of Gloucester, Crosti 9Fs and the GWR heavy freight eight-coupled tank locomotives. A strange idea of models between the normal range and the Railroad range. Soon dropped, Jason 1 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam88 Posted September 2, 2020 Share Posted September 2, 2020 22 minutes ago, Tony Wright said: Perhaps, But 'annunciation' means an announcement, which is what broadcaster proclaim (enunciate); isn't it? Perhaps my context is wrong. If so, my apologies. As I say; isn't English wonderful? Regards, Tony. Tony, Let me not divert the thread too far from important things like lamp irons and chimneys but it is interesting to investigate these words on-line in say Chambers or Collins and compare with what is given in Merriam Webster. The latter gives definitions more in keeping with your usage, Collins also gives your usage as American English. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 96701 Posted September 2, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 2, 2020 34 minutes ago, jacko said: I moved from Stotfold to Leeds so had the joys of Theakstons, Tetleys and Timothy Taylors ales on the doorstep. Funnily enough, though I live in Scotland now, I rarely drink beer apart from during my annual holidays to the Lake district. In the seventies, Tim Taylors beers were superb in winter, but because they used to store their beer in the open air, they were not so good in summer until they appeared to get a better storage system, now they are superb all year round. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Barry O Posted September 2, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 2, 2020 1 hour ago, 96701 said: Must admit, speaking as a northerner (Lancastrian near the Yorkshire Dales) none of the Greene King brews have been to my liking. My first pint of real ale was in 1973 and was Theakston's Bitter when it as still brewed at Masham. What a revelation! We spoke to the barman who showed us a very slim volume entitled "The Good Beer Guide". There were 2 pubs in there that brewed their own beer. These had to be tried first, then closer to home we discovered Boddingtons Bitter brewed at Strangeways. Now there was a force to be reckoned with, the eighth pint tasted as good as the first. Sorry, Greene King beers just do not come close, the nearest that I have to the last pint tasting as good as the first is Oakham Beers JHB, another good session beer with lots of flavour. Theakstons still brew beers in Masham as doestheblack sheep" of the family. Sadly when I umpired tgere a few weeks ago both brew houses were "between" brews. Green King IPA has changed for the better after they bought Morlands of Abingdon out..it is still a bit dull compared to Black Sheep or Theakstons. Favourite beer for me is Tim Taylors Ram Tam now renamed to be "Dark Landlord" which is really what it always has been. Baz Ps I hate some of the North Eastern accents usedby the BBC.. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jamie92208 Posted September 3, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 3, 2020 (edited) 8 hours ago, Barry O said: Theakstons still brew beers in Masham as doestheblack sheep" of the family. Sadly when I umpired tgere a few weeks ago both brew houses were "between" brews. Green King IPA has changed for the better after they bought Morlands of Abingdon out..it is still a bit dull compared to Black Sheep or Theakstons. Favourite beer for me is Tim Taylors Ram Tam now renamed to be "Dark Landlord" which is really what it always has been. Baz Ps I hate some of the North Eastern accents usedby the BBC.. As an aside, I was exporing part of the site of the battle of Arras on the centenary of the death of my father's cousin in that battle. When my mate and I got to one of the smaller cemeteries, which I always find more impactive than the big ones, a party of cyclists also arrived. It turned out to be IIRC Paul Theakston, the proprietor of the Black Sheep brewery, his wife, two sons and the brewery manager, also touring the battlefield as apparently his great uncle had lost a leg there. Pure coincidence. I was however able to help him with some history of the narrow gauge at Masham and later sent him details of the Bowtell book that includes that line. A really nice gent to meet and his beer is superb. Please forgive the digression from the discussion of LNER pacifics. Jamie Edited September 3, 2020 by jamie92208 7 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Tony Wright Posted September 3, 2020 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted September 3, 2020 8 hours ago, Adam88 said: Tony, Let me not divert the thread too far from important things like lamp irons and chimneys but it is interesting to investigate these words on-line in say Chambers or Collins and compare with what is given in Merriam Webster. The latter gives definitions more in keeping with your usage, Collins also gives your usage as American English. Many thanks Adam (is '88' the year of your birth?). I'm glad I didn't drop too much of a blooper! You're right; this is a model railway thread and details on various bits of models should take precedence. However, English is also very important and it seems to me that 'standards' are continuously being eroded across the whole media thingy. It's my belief that general standards of spoken/written English have never been universally-good (is that a correct use of a hyphen?). I only need to look back over my years in teaching to recall letters from some parents (who were educated long before my 'training') to tell that, but the 'professional' media going back some 40/50 years (and more) was usually correct - the radio, telly, newspapers and so on. Not now. Anyway, a delight to correspond. I don't mind being picked up where I get my English usage incorrect (I deserve to be), but it remains the case that some correspondents are 'sensitive' if their (poor) use of English is commented on. Best draw a line..................? Regards, Tony. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Tony Wright Posted September 3, 2020 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted September 3, 2020 4 minutes ago, jamie92208 said: As an aside, I was exporing part of the site of the battle of Arras on the centenary of the death of my father's cousin in that battle. When my mate and I got to one of the smaller cemeteries, which I always find more impactive than the big ones, a party of cyclists also arrived. It turned out to be IIRC Paul Theakston, the proprietor of the Black Sheep brewery, his wife, two sons and the brewery manager, also touring the battlefield as apparently his great uncle had lost a leg there. Pure coincidence. I was however able to help him with some history of the narrow gauge at Masham and later sent him details of the Bowtell book that includes that line. A really nice gent to meet and his beer is superb. Please forgive the digression from the discussion of LNER pacifics. Jamie Nothing to forgive, Jamie............ It's most interesting. Regards, Tony. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LNER4479 Posted September 3, 2020 Share Posted September 3, 2020 9 hours ago, Iain Mac said: P2's never got over the Waverley ... There's a challenge for somebody. Standby for a picture on here by the end of the day. 4 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micklner Posted September 3, 2020 Share Posted September 3, 2020 21 minutes ago, LNER4479 said: There's a challenge for somebody. Standby for a picture on here by the end of the day. Link here https://www.rail-online.co.uk/p431111564/hC5707816#hc5707816 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
2750Papyrus Posted September 3, 2020 Share Posted September 3, 2020 Though Stotfold is not renowned for its beer, when I worked in Letchworth I did sometimes used to stop off there for a few jars with work colleagues on my way home. When I somehow became the management representative on the works sports and social club committee, I think my most useful contribution was the selection of Tetleys as the draught bitter! To anyone currently exiled to the area, may I recommend the Engineers' Arms in Henlow? 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Tony Wright Posted September 3, 2020 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted September 3, 2020 (edited) When I posted pictures of excellent 4mm locos yesterday, the two on Kingstorre seemed to be very popular. That being the case, two more............................. 2mm/N Gauge later........................ Edited September 3, 2020 by Tony Wright to add something 17 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CUTLER2579 Posted September 3, 2020 Share Posted September 3, 2020 55 minutes ago, micklner said: Link here https://www.rail-online.co.uk/p431111564/hC5707816#hc5707816 By heck 4479 that was a quick day,and so to bed said Zebedee. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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