Wright writes.....

[Chamby]

Hi Phil

 

My post was serious post, this is a model railway forum.

 

Two longish DMUs passing each other at a scale 60 mph looked very good. In fact yesterday's short operating session was great fun. Much better than any English lesson I had at school. Not being assessed as dyslexic until adulthood I think you can understand why I didn't like English and why this petty one up manship debates are pointless when I come on here to view others modelling or debate railway matters.

 

Let us see something creative.

No offence was intended, Clive. I have always seen the pedantic banter on this thread as part of its character... petty or otherwise. I hope that hasn’t changed?

 

As for modelling ‘creativity’, my current activities under the baseboards are unlikely to be of interest to the readers of this particular thread. There is much that we do that doesn’t lend itself to posting here, but is creative modelling nonetheless.

 

Edit: double quote.

Edited January 10, 2019 by Chamby

[Tony Wright]

I know there may be sensitivities here, but the four "OO"  figures offered as free gift on the latest BRM portray very large men indeed. One scales as a very burly 6 foot 9.  I will look gift horses more carefully in the mouth in future.

 

Tone

Tone,

 

I haven't seen the free figures with the magazine, but, from what you say, they would appear to be big (too big), if not quite Brobdingnagian. 

 

Figures can enhance a model railway in a delightful way, or, by their very presence can bring too much attention to themselves by being too big, too misshapen, clumsily-painted and indulging in extreme activities. I always think it's best to have figures in repose or in 'light activity', rather than in great activity, such as pub brawls which one occasionally sees. Another 'nonsense' one sometimes sees on layouts are things like cricket matches taking place. That's not uncommon - I've played at places like Welshpool, overlooking the line there, at Caersws, with the line just above the ground and at Claypole, with the ECML forming one edge of the boundary - but these miniature figures are playing on a model postage stamp. One groundsman suggested that every cricket field should be at least an acre in size. A fair amount of land on a model railway. It's the same with model football matches.

 

I'm very fortunate that the figures on Little Bytham have all been donated by the likes of Geoff West, Tim Elcock, Paul Marshall Potter and Philip Warren, and all have been beautifully-presented and painted. Gentlemen, thank you very much. 

 

The following images show some of the not-too-many figures in place on LB. One thing which should be remembered is that these are cruel close-ups. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I don't know who made/painted the little cyclist below. He arrived in a box of junk which was being thrown out from the family of a deceased modeller, so I took pity on him. 

 

 

I note that grammar has come to the fore again.

 

If folk are sensitive about their English mistakes being picked-up (or picked-on?) then should we (and I'm including myself very much in this 'we') be more-sensitive towards them? I honestly think it's just light-hearted banter. 

Edited January 10, 2019 by Tony Wright

[John Isherwood]

If folk are sensitive about their English mistakes being picked-up (or picked-on?) then should we (and I'm including myself very much in this 'we') be more-sensitive towards them? I honestly think it's just banter. 

 

I don't see why we should; it is plainly evident that some posters go out of their way to be ungrammatical; they seem to think that it gives them 'character'.

 

They don't stop to consider that I, and quite a few others here I suspect, experience something approaching physical pain when we read such provocative writing.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[Tony Wright]

No offence was intended, Clive. I have always seen the pedantic banter on this thread as part of its character... petty or otherwise. I hope that hasn’t changed?

 

As for modelling ‘creativity’, my current activities under the baseboards are unlikely to be of interest to the readers of this particular thread. There is much that we do that doesn’t lend itself to posting here, but is creative modelling nonetheless.

 

Edit: double quote.

Thanks Phil,

 

I think pedantic banter is needed more often at times. As long as it cuts both ways.

 

There are those (not on this thread, I hasten to add) who are quite happy to 'dish stuff out', but don't like it being dished out to them. Human nature, I suppose? 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Tony Wright]

I don't see why we should; it is plainly evident that some posters go out of their way to be ungrammatical; they seem to think that it gives them 'character'.

 

They don't stop to consider that I, and quite a few others here I suspect, experience something approaching physical pain when we read such provocative writing.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

An interesting comment, John,

 

May I ask, have you ever taught?

 

Looking at some of the writings I've had to correct down the years would have had you writhing in physical agony! 

 

Regards,

 

Tony.  

Edited January 10, 2019 by Tony Wright

[John Isherwood]

 

May I ask, have you ever taught?

 

.  

 

No, Tony - I wouldn't have had the patience !

 

But, as a local government engineer, I have had more than my fair share of accidental 'howlers' and just plain laziness in my incoming correspondence.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[t-b-g]

Picking people up on poor grammar is all well and good and can very often be just banter but when the person who is being corrected has something like dyslexia, it becomes unkind and in poor taste

 

As it is pretty difficult to tell when somebody has such a condition, perhaps a rethink on the acceptability of such practises may be called for.

 

I am sure we can find plenty of other things to take the mickey out of each other over.

 

I have a very good friend who has dyslexia and has managed to keep it fairly well hidden most of his life. Only a handful of people know. So when he writes something down and gets it wrong, either in grammar or spelling, I never poke fun at him over it. That just doesn't seem the right thing to do somehow.

Edited January 10, 2019 by t-b-g

[John Isherwood]

Picking people up on poor grammar is all well and good and can very often be just banter but when the person who is being corrected has something like dyslexia, it becomes unkind and in poor taste

 

As it is pretty difficult to tell when somebody has such a condition, perhaps a rethink on the acceptability of such practises may be called for.

 

I am sure we can find plenty of other things to take the mickey out of each other over.

 

I have a very good friend who has dyslexia and has managed to keep it fairly well hidden most of his life. Only a handful of people know. So when he writes something down and gets it wrong, either in grammar or spelling, I never poke fun at him over it. That just doesn't seem the right thing to do somehow.

 

I would agree - if you know of the condition.

 

However, it seems nowadays that one can't make even the slightest comment in case 'someone' if offended.

 

Let's face it, we all have deficiencies of some sort or other which will, at some point, be commented upon.

 

That's life - get over it.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[DougN]

As promised a day or two ago. I have been at the Finneytender again. The body is now about 80% the rest is small details of lifting eyes and other etchings that seem to be less than 1mm x1mm! The body has taken about 10 hours to get to this point.., and this is not including the chassis below so my guess of about 30 hrs for the entire thing. I realised today that modelling I can sit for about 4 or so hours but this only really happens on the weekends or as today on leave.

The only deviation from the instructions was to use brass pins rather than fabricated pins for the sprung rams to the "working" corridor connection. I am really impressed by the design but I will only do it on this tender as to fabricate and install on a number of coaches would send you to the funny farm with a nice new white coat!

 

One thing I am finding is I have gone through a heap of 145 solder on this kit. But the last few parts I have been slowly reducing a little (about 4mm diameter) puddle... so using the smallest of small "rhino" horn on the end of the soldering iron. When I mean small it doesn't even tin the bit on the iron. It is a new iron too as my old one died before Christmas so it had to quickly purchased.

[MJI]

The sweeper looks like he is trying to sweep the dust under the building!

[t-b-g]

I would agree - if you know of the condition.

 

However, it seems nowadays that one can't make even the slightest comment in case 'someone' if offended.

 

Let's face it, we all have deficiencies of some sort or other which will, at some point, be commented upon.

 

That's life - get over it.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

Ah. Obviously a student and follower of the Donald Trump school of diplomacy.

 

So you are saying that it is fine to mock somebody with some deficiency as long as you don't know that they have it.

 

I have a few friends who have difficulties that are not immediately obvious. It has taught me to think carefully before I take the mickey out of anybody for anything. Now when you know somebody well enough, as we do, we can be merciless to each other. But not on a public forum, to people that I don't know.

 

To me, it is just good manners to treat people with respect until I know them well enough to do otherwise.

[Guest]

I would never dream of passing comment on somebody I barely knew. I'd be mortified if I upset them due to me being unaware of a certain condition they had. It is called common courtesy.

But like T-B-G once I know them well enough they are fair game!

[Tony Wright]

The sweeper looks like he is trying to sweep the dust under the building!

Under the brick paving you mean.

 

Almost all the buildings sit into a 'footprint' cut from thin card. That way, one doesn't get the dreaded 'shadow' underneath them, and, therefore, it's impossible to sweep anything under them.  

[John Isherwood]

Ah. Obviously a student and follower of the Donald Trump school of diplomacy.

 

So you are saying that it is fine to mock somebody with some deficiency as long as you don't know that they have it.

 

I have a few friends who have difficulties that are not immediately obvious. It has taught me to think carefully before I take the mickey out of anybody for anything. Now when you know somebody well enough, as we do, we can be merciless to each other. But not on a public forum, to people that I don't know.

 

To me, it is just good manners to treat people with respect until I know them well enough to do otherwise.

 

Yet another interpreter of what they wish I'd posted - not what I actually posted.

 

Please quote ANYWHERE that I suggested that I was taking the 'mickey' out of anybody, or suggested that it would be OK to do so.

 

I VERY OCCASIONALLY point out a gross misuse of grammar, or a significant spelling mistake, where the meaning could be affected. I do so in the (forlorn) hope that the writers might actually learn how to better express themselves.

 

I feel no guilt for so doing, and I do not apologise. We are all criticised for perceived failings throughout our lives - sometimes justifiably and sometimes for mitigating reasons not know to the criticiser. That's life - and most of us just accept the fact and get over ourselves.

 

I have responded in much more detail to a member who PM-ed me on the subject - suffice to say that I too have sensibilities unknown to others, in common with the entire population of the world. Those sensibilities will, on occasion, be inadvertently offended - but that is no reason for the rest of the world to avoid saying anything that just might upset someone else, however mundane the comment.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

Edited January 10, 2019 by cctransuk

[Tony Wright]

Ah. Obviously a student and follower of the Donald Trump school of diplomacy.

 

So you are saying that it is fine to mock somebody with some deficiency as long as you don't know that they have it.

 

I have a few friends who have difficulties that are not immediately obvious. It has taught me to think carefully before I take the mickey out of anybody for anything. Now when you know somebody well enough, as we do, we can be merciless to each other. But not on a public forum, to people that I don't know.

 

To me, it is just good manners to treat people with respect until I know them well enough to do otherwise.

Good afternoon Tony,

 

I think everyone should treat people with respect, up to a point.

 

Whether one needs to know them well enough to do otherwise, I'm not sure. I don't know Donald Trump, for instance, but it would seem a lot of folk treat him with disrespect, even though they don't know him (and his kind) at all, other than through the media.

 

Regarding the general media, I have a deep suspicion of anything reported on there. To me, it's so left-wing biased as to be unrepresentative of my kind of views (even though I wouldn't call myself right-wing). 

 

As for 'conditions', without offending anyone (I hope), before I got out of teaching I was astonished how many 'conditions' were being discovered, largely to 'excuse' slow-learning, or, more often, bad behaviour. Dyslexia, I acknowledge, has to be accepted (and several highly-intelligent friends of mine have the condition - and cope with it brilliantly), but just because a person cannot write 'correct' English doesn't mean that they're automatically dyslexic.

 

Over 50 years ago, I taught a class which was labelled ESN. Does anyone know what that stands for? It's Educationally Sub-Normal! And, guess what, the members of that class were. The curriculum they followed suited their needs and they leaned what they could, and went on to do (usually) menial jobs (when there were plenty of them all those years ago). Such a thing is considered outrageous today. I'm not suggesting anyone on here is ESN, but poor writing ability is a manifestation of the condition, just as it is (in some cases) with those with dyslexia. See how easy it is to offend, just by stating a fact? 

 

Over 45 years ago, during a pastoral board meeting of which (as a year tutor) I was a member, one little fellow was under discussion because of his dreadful behaviour. All manner of excuses were trundled out by various 'experts' as to why he just didn't seem to be able to concentrate and work, but just seemed intent on disrupting the learning of any of his peers. My comment of 'Has anyone considered that he's really rather dim?' caused uproar. 'How can you say that, Tony? It's so unprofessional!' was the response by one woman. 'Look at his parents' was my answer. 'They're dim, and they have produced a dim child - it's simply Darwinian'. Is anyone surprised that I'm no longer in the profession? 

 

All this, of course, is a long way from model railways, so, may we get back to that, please? 

 

I reiterate, I am not being offensive to anyone on here by making the above comments. We are all different, and treating each other with respect should be a natural response to any question, query or statement. Until those asking questions, making queries or issuing statements, because of how they present them, lose any chance of receiving respect. And, the day we no longer take the mickey out of each other (giving and taking in equal measure), is the day I abandon this thread. 

 

Don't we live in interesting times?  

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

Edited because I've just altered a grammatical blooper in the post above! 

Edited January 10, 2019 by Tony Wright

[CUTLER2579]

t-b-g Wrote :- I  have a very good friend who has dyslexia and has managed to keep it fairly well hidden most of his life. Only a handful of people know. So when he writes something down and gets it wrong, either in grammar or spelling, I never poke fun at him over it. That just doesn't seem the right thing to do somehow.

 

Obviously knowing the Friend in question, it was many years before I knew he had Dyslexia.

 

Regards,Derek.

[Lecorbusier]

 

I'm very fortunate that the figures on Little Bytham have all been donated by the likes of Geoff West, Tim Elcock, Paul Marshall Potter and Philip Warren, and all have been beautifully-presented and painted. Gentlemen, thank you very much. 

 

 

I particularly like what I assume is a loco spotter at the end of the platform? .... Any similarities to yourself?

[t-b-g]

In my view, banter and taking the mickey is fine and great fun. We just need to be aware of the impact of it on others and judge our approach accordingly.

 

I had a visitor here once who had a very unusual approach to operating the layout. I took the mickey somewhat. When he was out of earshot their friend said "Do you know he is Autistic?" and I felt about 6 inches tall and dreadful.

 

That was the day I learned to be be a little more understanding about who and what is "fair game" for such comments.

[Tony Wright]

I particularly like what I assume is a loco spotter at the end of the platform? .... Any similarities to yourself?

Thanks Tim,

 

Probably not, at least not for 1958. In the late summer of that year, I was almost 12 years old, and, by then, a bit taller than the wee trainspotter. However, the garb is dead right - short trousers were for me then, still - even into the first year of senior school. 

 

I've actually been scanned by ModelU - as I am today (or at least as I was two years ago). A friend took 'me' away to paint, but I've not seen 'myself' completed yet. At least I'm holding a camera - appropriate for the time; a twin lens reflex type. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Tony Wright]

Returning to the subject of being 'offensive', I wonder what the responses will be to my comments in the latest RM? 

[PaulCheffus]

Good afternoon Tony,

 

I think everyone should treat people with respect, up to a point.

 

Whether one needs to know them well enough to do otherwise, I'm not sure. I don't know Donald Trump, for instance, but it would seem a lot of folk treat him with disrespect, even though they don't know him (and his kind) at all, other than through the media.

 

Regarding the general media, I have a deep suspicion of anything reported on there. To me, it's so left-wing biased as to be unrepresentative of my kind of views (even though I wouldn't call myself right-wing). 

 

As for 'conditions', without offending anyone (I hope), before I got out of teaching I was astonished how many 'conditions' were being discovered, largely to 'excuse' slow-learning, or, more often, bad behaviour. Dyslexia, I acknowledge, has to be accepted (and several highly-intelligent friends of mine have the condition - and cope with it brilliantly), but just because a person cannot write 'correct' English doesn't mean that they're automatically dyslexic.

 

Over 50 years ago, I taught a class which was labelled ESN. Does anyone know what that stands for? It's Educationally Sub-Normal! And, guess what, the members of that class were. The curriculum they followed suited their needs and the leaned what they could, and went on to do (usually) menial jobs (when there were plenty of them all those years ago). Such a thing is considered outrageous today. I'm not suggesting anyone on here is ESN, but poor writing ability is a manifestation of the condition, just as it is (in some cases) with those with dyslexia. See how easy it is to offend, just by stating a fact? 

 

Over 45 years ago, during a pastoral board meeting of which (as a year tutor) I was a member, one little fellow was under discussion because of his dreadful behaviour. All manner of excuses were trundled out by various 'experts' as to why he just didn't seem to be able to concentrate and work, but just seemed intent on disrupting the learning of any of his peers. My comment of 'Has anyone considered that he's really rather dim?' caused uproar. 'How can you say that, Tony? It's so unprofessional!' was the response by one woman. 'Look at his parents' was my answer. 'They're dim, and they have produced a dim child - it's simply Darwinian'. Is anyone surprised that I'm no longer in the profession? 

 

All this, of course, is a long way from model railways, so, may we get back to that, please? 

 

I reiterate, I am not being offensive to anyone on here by making the above comments. We are all different, and treating each other with respect should be a natural response to any question, query or statement. Until those asking questions, making queries or issuing statements, because of how they present them, lose any chance of receiving respect. And, the day we no longer take the mickey out of each other (giving and taking in equal measure), is the day I abandon this thread. 

 

Don't we live in interesting times?  

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

Edited because I've just altered a grammatical blooper in the post above! 

Hi

 

Its now called Special Educational Needs (SEN). My wife is the SENDCO (Special Educational Needs and Disability Coordinator) for the school she works in.

 

 

Cheers

 

Paul

[petrovich]

Returning to the subject of being 'offensive', I wonder what the responses will be to my comments in the latest RM? 

Hi Tony 

 

Read the digital copy this morning nothing offensive in there, some structured comments that someone might take umbrage with, but that is up to them. If they cannot handle someone else's point of view if it does not meet their own, hard luck. Sometimes by listening to others rather than arguing or ranting at them you get a more balanced view of matters.

Part of the problem now is that the generation who have been brought up on electronic devices have lost the art of conversation, discussion and reason with their fellow humans, I I think we are heading for some difficult times soon as a race of people.

 

Regards

[SR Chris]

In my view, banter and taking the mickey is fine and great fun. 

 

Leave my girlfriend (Mickey) out of this!  

[t-b-g]

Leave my girlfriend (Mickey) out of this!  

 

Oops! I used to work with a really lovely lady called Michelle but everybody called her Micky (or was it Mickey?).

 

If your girlfriend used to work in a Building Society in Doncaster, please say hello to her for me. If not, probably best not to say anything.

Edited January 10, 2019 by t-b-g

[SR Chris]

Not the same person t-b-g, Mickey's name really is Mickey.