Wright writes.....

[Tony Wright]

Varnished teak livery for Little Bytham? Have I missed something, somewhere?

 

So the extraction was an extensive cashectomy?

Graeme,

 

I have already got three (different) triplet sets for the Newcastle turns on LB in 1958.

 

I thought this one might have a place on Grantham, especially if Geoff Haynes paints it. Any thoughts?

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[AndyID]

Despite having an extraction this morning

 

I'm presently recovering from a root canal conducted by a clown who was assisted by a cat. What could possibly go wrong?

[chris p bacon]

I'm presently recovering from a root canal conducted by a clown who was assisted by a cat. What could possibly go wrong?

 

 

Depends where the point of entry was.

[DougN]

Other than quite liking the Kirk kits, I am always interested in the comments that the glazing rebate is too deep. I have heard of people going to extreme lengths to reduce the rebate. Has anyone actually measured the rebate on the coaches, it may not be the full 3in that the kirk sides give you as they are about  1mm thick but it could be quite close? 

 

They are a good starting point for detailing though and can be quite enjoyable to do. No doubt Wizard models & Dart castings enjoys the custom for all the bits and pieces they sell!

[AndyID]

Depends where the point of entry was.

 

Conventional I'm afraid, but he did offer some alternatives. Maybe you'd be interested in trying some of them?

[Chamby]

Although it 'looks' like a facing crossover, the overgrown line going straight on from it, over the girder bridge, is actually a dead-end siding. When the formation was laid out by the Midland Railway in the 1890s from Little Bytham to Saxby Junction (near Melton Mowbray) it was actually for double track. All the bridges could accommodate this, but it was only ever laid with single track, with passing loops at South Witham and Wymondham. Even the girder bridge only carried one running road. As far as I know, the only time this siding over the girder bridge was used was for track-lifting, in 1959, on the line's closure.  

 

D3 13 on layout.jpg

 

I hope this view shows the arrangement reasonably well, where all Up trains took the crossover and headed towards Saxby.

 

D3 11 on layout.jpg

 

Every prototype shot shows the siding to be rusty and weed-infested (even though there was a ground signal allowing passage from it, and a trap point for protection). It went on for a further 100 yards or so beyond the girder bridge. In retrospect, it might have been better to have laid double track all the way from Bourne to Saxby, because the single track sections were always the Achilles' heel in operations on the east/west route to/from Norfolk, particularly on summer Saturdays. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony.

 

Tony, In your model form, there looks to be either a gap in the rails or a noticeable discrepancy in rail height (maybe weight) at the join between the crossover and the siding’s catch point... looks like wheels would bump hard when travelling over it. It might be an optical illusion but it does seem to show up in several photo’s. Is it deliberate, another fastidiously modelled detail as per prototype?

[thegreenhowards]

 curly six numbering  is now available with British Railways legend in a number of sizes. It also comes in yellow or white as appropriate.

 

Andrew,

 

I'm struggling with those magic words 'as appropriate'! I'm trying to work out when to use yellow and when white. Is there a definitive rule? Most photos of the period are black and white. My immediate projects are a black D16 and an apple green B1 both in 1948/9 livery. I have the Modelmaster's white sheet, but I suspect I will need the yellow...at least for the B1.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[Clem]

Other than quite liking the Kirk kits, I am always interested in the comments that the glazing rebate is too deep. I have heard of people going to extreme lengths to reduce the rebate. Has anyone actually measured the rebate on the coaches, it may not be the full 3in that the kirk sides give you as they are about  1mm thick but it could be quite close? 

 

They are a good starting point for detailing though and can be quite enjoyable to do. No doubt Wizard models & Dart castings enjoys the custom for all the bits and pieces they sell!

 

I fit windows in from the front with Kirk kits. It can be a bit tedious and you've got to be in the mood to make steady slow progress, but results can be worth it.

[Enterprisingwestern]

The cat is sat on the mat. Past Present tense.

 

The cat was sitting on the mat. Present Past tense.

 

It's so easy to reverse things!

 

Mike.

[Headstock]

Andrew,

 

I'm struggling with those magic words 'as appropriate'! I'm trying to work out when to use yellow and when white. Is there a definitive rule? Most photos of the period are black and white. My immediate projects are a black D16 and an apple green B1 both in 1948/9 livery. I have the Modelmaster's white sheet, but I suspect I will need the yellow...at least for the B1.

 

Regards

 

Andy

 

Morning Andy,

 

there isn't a definitive date. Different works changed over at different times, and a good deal of patch painting also took place. However, I have made some notes but I won't be able to access them until after Spalding. Basically, the yellow was an adaptation of the LNER style (a large proportion of 48) and the white/cream came latter (48 and 49). The curly six was exclusively used on the yellow and mixed on the white/cream. For example, Gorton started using the straight six in September 49 (I need to double check that as I may be remember the BR logo change). Grass green locomotives seem to have retained yellow with  the B1's turned out by outside contractors carrying yellow lettering and numbers on green throughout the period. When looking at photographs, check the the date, If it is 48 it has a good chance of being yellow, also look for mismatches between the size of numbers and letters, this was more common with the yellow lettering due to patch painting. The straight six was always white/cream on black locomotives, I'm not so sure about green locomotives.

 

Edit The issue with the straight six on LNER green locomotives has become clouded by modelers using white numbers and lettering, especially on A3 class locomotives. Contemporary photographs show Thompson and Peppercorn Pacific's to be carrying yellow.

 

I would also add that locomotives outshoped in the LNWR style linning but with curly sixes and the British Railways legend would be white/cream.

 

Edited November 1, 2018 by Headstock

[gr.king]

Graeme,

 

I have already got three (different) triplet sets for the Newcastle turns on LB in 1958.

 

I thought this one might have a place on Grantham, especially if Geoff Haynes paints it. Any thoughts?

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

I imagine it will be highly appropriate to Grantham, but I am neither a serious student nor the final arbiter in matters of "correct" coaching stock in the Grantham sets. I defer to my learned colleagues.....

[Tony Wright]

Tony, In your model form, there looks to be either a gap in the rails or a noticeable discrepancy in rail height (maybe weight) at the join between the crossover and the siding’s catch point... looks like wheels would bump hard when travelling over it. It might be an optical illusion but it does seem to show up in several photo’s. Is it deliberate, another fastidiously modelled detail as per prototype?

I don't believe in optical illusions, Phil,

 

It is as it is. The trap point does not work (indolence, lack of planning, 'blind' spots and what you will) and there are discrepancies in height/gaps. I will admit that these are 'highlighted' by the camera in a way 'invisible' to the naked eye, particularly in tight perspective. Obviously, the crossover works (very well-made by Rob Davey), but the trap point was an old copper-clad one I had which just about fitted. It was laid a few years after the other trackwork was completed - retrospectively. 

 

Well-spotted! 

 

 

From slightly further away, it's not quite so apparent. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Jesse Sim]

Graeme,

 

I have already got three (different) triplet sets for the Newcastle turns on LB in 1958.

 

I thought this one might have a place on Grantham, especially if Geoff Haynes paints it. Any thoughts?

 

Regards,

 

Tony.

 

 

 

You have my address for posting Tony

[Tony Wright]

Other than quite liking the Kirk kits, I am always interested in the comments that the glazing rebate is too deep. I have heard of people going to extreme lengths to reduce the rebate. Has anyone actually measured the rebate on the coaches, it may not be the full 3in that the kirk sides give you as they are about  1mm thick but it could be quite close? 

 

They are a good starting point for detailing though and can be quite enjoyable to do. No doubt Wizard models & Dart castings enjoys the custom for all the bits and pieces they sell!

Good morning Doug,

 

The thick window reveals on the Kirk coaches tend to be highlighted more (or less) by the livery carried.

 

 

I acquired this carmine/cream example 'very' second-hand some little time ago and I can't quite decide what to do with it (it's posed for this picture). It was in bits and I rebuilt it, refitted the interior and glazed it. There's no doubt that the cream highlights the thick rebate - more so than in teak or maroon. And, compared with the adjacent brass-sided cars, it looks like an armoured coach! 

 

I don't now whether the 'NE' prefix is correct for carmine/cream. The painting needs tidying up, and what about missing footboards? Still, as a 'layout coach' at normal (over 3') viewing distances? 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Edited November 1, 2018 by Tony Wright

[Tony Wright]

You have my address for posting Tony

Why didn't I think of you, Jesse? You're a dear friend, so my apologies.

 

I'll find out what Geoff will charge to paint it (not cheap, obviously) and I'll come up with a mates' rates figure.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Headstock]

I don't believe in optical illusions, Phil,

 

It is as it is. The trap point does not work (indolence, lack of planning, 'blind' spots and what you will) and there are discrepancies in height/gaps. I will admit that these are 'highlighted' by the camera in a way 'invisible' to the naked eye, particularly in tight perspective. Obviously, the crossover works (very well-made by Rob Davey), but the trap point was an old copper-clad one I had which just about fitted. It was laid a few years after the other trackwork was completed - retrospectively. 

 

Well-spotted! 

 

D3 09 on layout.jpg

 

From slightly further away, it's not quite so apparent. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

Morning Tony,

 

that is one of the most evocative photographs that you have taken in my opinion. I hope you don't mind if I save a copy to my inspirations folder. Apart from the understandable minor point of the carriage numbers being right hand end, it oozes late1940's charm.

[MikeTrice]

Other than quite liking the Kirk kits, I am always interested in the comments that the glazing rebate is too deep. I have heard of people going to extreme lengths to reduce the rebate. Has anyone actually measured the rebate on the coaches, it may not be the full 3in that the kirk sides give you as they are about  1mm thick but it could be quite close?

The fillet that retains the glazing is 7/8" * 5/8":

 

Edited after refering to the GAs.

Edited November 1, 2018 by MikeTrice

[jamie92208]

I don't believe in optical illusions, Phil,

 

It is as it is. The trap point does not work (indolence, lack of planning, 'blind' spots and what you will) and there are discrepancies in height/gaps. I will admit that these are 'highlighted' by the camera in a way 'invisible' to the naked eye, particularly in tight perspective. Obviously, the crossover works (very well-made by Rob Davey), but the trap point was an old copper-clad one I had which just about fitted. It was laid a few years after the other trackwork was completed - retrospectively. 

 

Well-spotted! 

 

D3 09 on layout.jpg

 

From slightly further away, it's not quite so apparent. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

Perhaps when there is a major possession for the bridge replacement the PW gang could do a little work.

 

Jamie

[DougN]

Thanks for the information Mike, that does suggest there needs to be a small amount but smaller than I was expecting. The photo above does show the "flush" nature of the top lites as they are in a metal frame which I would suggest is internally glazed. Ie fixed from inside where the lower frame is externally glazed with the glazing bead screw fixed. There is more 3dimensional here than we can model in 4mm. Dare I also say that the glass may now be thicker than original for safety reasons? Either laminated or toughened.

[Tony Wright]

Perhaps when there is a major possession for the bridge replacement the PW gang could do a little work.

 

Jamie

The building of the bridge is this year's Christmas project, Jamie.

[Headstock]

That would make the Kirks 4 1/2 " thick. I think that I will stick with Brass, though Clem's sides are very clever.

 

Right, off I go to help pack up the layout.

[Jol Wilkinson]

It's so easy to reverse things!

 

Mike.

The cat hasn't come in yet. What do I tell him when he does?

[jwealleans]

Ian Kirk has said to me that one thing he’d do differently now would be to rebate the glazing.

[t-b-g]

Malcolm Crawley used to inlay 20thou plastic in the upper wooden panels and flush glaze his Kirk carriages. It was a fair bit of work but the transformation was worth it. Once a strip of plastic the right height has been cut, each bit was cut off the end of the strip to fit the width of the panel or the window.

 

They ended up looking rather nice and the lower beading is a better shape than a flat etch.

[Headstock]

Unfortunately, the lower beading on the Kirk kits is in the wrong place due to the lower panels being vertically compressed by the windows being too deep from top to bottom. To be fair, some etches suffer from the same problem. I suspect it is because the original artwork has been copied from the diagram books. The diagram book drawings were never intended to be to scale representations, this would also explain the odd roof shape and the end profile.