Wright writes.....

[St Enodoc]

Clive

 

Your memories are correct but stranger still the old 'uns called the trolley buses trams and they went in the 1920's. I tried without sucess to get my gran to call the trolleys by their correct name but it did not work.

 

Martin

Trackless trams?

[2750Papyrus]

Taking the "P" out of Thompson (would we?) gives us Thomson, after whom a gazelle common to East Africa was named,   This would suggest that the collective noun should be a herd, eg "a herd of Tommies".

[CF MRC]

Looking at the front end of the Thompson P2 chops, I would perversely say an “elongation” of A2/2s as the collective noun.

 

Incidentally, is there any evidence that the nameplates had anything other than a black background in LNER days for the P2s?

 

Tim

Edited February 20, 2018 by CF MRC

[Tony Wright]

Looking at the front end of the Thompson P2 chops, I would perversely say an “elongation” of A2/2s as the collective noun.

 

Incidentally, is there any evidence that the nameplates had anything other than a black background in LNER days for the P2s?

 

Tim

Tim,

 

I think you're safe with black for the background of LNER nameplates. 

[Northmoor]

I have spent some time in the last week when it has been wet outside, looking at a number of model magazines of recent date. I come from an era when we avidly looked forward to the publication of the Railway Modeller each month and savoured the Railway of the Month. The often grainy black and white pictures showed model layouts which were unattainable to us whose idea of scale was the awful Wrenn track system. Upon reading this current crop, I find that I would not have the same enthusiasm despite the fact that the productions are full colour and streets ahead of what we were offered back in the day. There is an overweening sameness to them partially as they all have "reviews" of  the latest trade offerings or proposals which, if you read them, are often not reviews at all but rather publicity "puffs". As to the layouts there are indeed some who still have the power to thrill and inspire but many fail so to do. Whatever happened to the drawings and the technical articles which used to be a staple in days gone by?

Martin,

 

I agree about the older Railway Modellers often being more inspiring (I grew up in the 80s).  Oddly enough I think it is due to the now overwhelming use of colour photography, which I don't associate with much of the prototype subject matter; in the 80s most published prototype material was in B&W.  It doesn't help that the current mags are often printed with high colour saturation that in combination with studio lighting, looks unrealistic. Layouts like Chiltern Green didn't look any better in colour photographs, they were already stunning.

 

Rob

[Dick Turpin]

I have to say that the collective noun for Thompson Pacifics is an 'Abomination', sorry if that offends anyone sensitive enough to be offended. For the record, I do actually like them myself, but then, I do have a soft spot for anything ugly, unusual, or in the case of ET's work, both!  Thought I'd better include a juster just to be sure.

[gr.king]

Looking at the front end of the Thompson P2 chops, I would perversely say an “elongation” of A2/2s as the collective noun.

 

Incidentally, is there any evidence that the nameplates had anything other than a black background in LNER days for the P2s?

 

Tim

You're not the first to wonder whether the P2 nameplates always had black backgrounds. I don't remember where I saw the picture, but I've seen at least one image in which the tone of the nameplate background, compared to other visible known black and red areas, certainly suggested red. I wonder if that was 2001 in original condition? I suppose there's a fair chance that they were all black at one time or another. I've a feeling I've discussed this in the past with Andrew Emmett - he may read this and he may know which picture (or pictures) suggested the red background.

 

 

Added later: I've just had a quick look and noted that several of the pictures published in the Gresley Observer (including official works photos) show a light tone to the nameplates on 2001 and 2002 when new, and even on 2002 after rebuilding of the nose....

Edited February 20, 2018 by gr.king

[Theakerr]

One of the common comments in this thread when building and or weathering a loco is 'work from a picture'.  However, it seems to me that since about November last year when a Google image search produces minimal actual loco pictures.  Lots of pictures of models but minimal pictures of actual locos and even railway scenes compared to say 2 years ago.  I suspect this may be associated with Google surrendering to the US copywrite lobby that appears to have lots of access to US lawmakers (Canadian and UK as well ?).   Am I being paranoid or have others observed this?

[richard i]

Signal red or the darker red used on A4s which matched the wheels? Didn't Scottish depot repaint nameplates? Could it be blue as some were during BR days? I have no proof for any of these. Just thoughts.

Richard

[Red Devil]

Bit late to the Trolleybus party but a mate of mine has these two at the bottom of his garden!

 

Mind you he does live right opposite Sandtoft and has a pretty big garden, they're stored there as there's a fair bit of spare hard standing.. Both ex Bradford East Lancs re bodies.

 

 

The mini digger isn't 'preserved' it's one of his grandkids.

[Woodcock29]

Tony

If you haven't booked your flights yet, and from our experience recently along with those of our youngest son fly Emirates. They didn't screw up our flights/bookings (BA did), they didn't run out of food (Cathay did) and the A380 is far more comfortable than a Boeing.

 

Baz

Tony

 

I can thoroughly recommend Emirates as well - used them on my last two trips to Europe/UK

 

Andrew

[CF MRC]

Anyone any offers for this nameplate background colour?

In some other views, it also looks unblack. Looks like she’s looking at my avatar

Tim

Edited February 20, 2018 by CF MRC

[Woodcock29]

You're not the first to wonder whether the P2 nameplates always had black backgrounds. I don't remember where I saw the picture, but I've seen at least one image in which the tone of the nameplate background, compared to other visible known black and red areas, certainly suggested red. I wonder if that was 2001 in original condition? I suppose there's a fair chance that they were all black at one time or another. I've a feeling I've discussed this in the past with Andrew Emmett - he may read this and he may know which picture (or pictures) suggested the red background.

 

 

Added later: I've just had a quick look and noted that several of the pictures published in the Gresley Observer (including official works photos) show a light tone to the nameplates on 2001 and 2002 when new, and even on 2002 after rebuilding of the nose....

Hi Everyone

 

A most interesting question - I don't think we've conversed on this matter Graeme. Looking also at the Gresley Observer Pictorial Supplement on the P2s you would have to think that maybe at times the background was another colour, particularly 2002 when first rebuilt with streamlined smokebox in Oct 1936.  I can't recall ever seeing a colour photo of a P2. I think there's safety in having them black on a model. I only recently got a nice pair of plates for my 2001 from Fox - the so called brass plates provide by Hornby were like nothing I've seen before!

 

Andrew

[t-b-g]

https://www.flickr.com/photos/38949371@N04/3674913634

 

In rebuilt form, this is the link to the photo I mentioned earlier. The background colour to the nameplate is not black or red.

 

To me, it looks like brass all over.

 

Now if that were reproduced in black and white, it would look just like the streamlined photo.

 

I have no evidence to back this up other than this photo but is it a possibility that they did not have a background colour at all and that this continued through onto the rebuilt locos?

 

Or did a lot of brass polishing end up removing most if not all of the paint?

Edited February 21, 2018 by t-b-g

[Headstock]

A couple of items entering or exit Number one paint shop.

 

An LMS 9' w b Banana van, an amalgamation of Ratio, Parkside with Comet axle guards. An ABS SR 10' w b Banana van, whitemetal and solder. More LMS Banana vans awaiting couplings, why the LM used a 9' w b chassis on these vans I do not know, especially the later J hanger, clasp brake gear version. 

 

A conversion of a Bachmann non discript brake van into a pre war LNER Toad D. Replacing the handrails with something less chunky really makes a difference, that and the addition of new end platforms. An LMS Plywood 10' wb fitted van, a conversion from the Parkside BR fruit van based on an LMS design. Unfortunately, and unusually the Parkside, the roof profile is incorrect for either, so the sides were grafted on to the roof and ends of a thirty five year old Airfix van.

 

A bit of carriage renovation, an old D&S NE non gangway Clerestory brake third, the poor thing had lost it's bogies and had a rather wonky underframe, roof and as it turned out body. After being de wonked it was re glazed, re bogied and given a new coat of LNER mud brown.  And finally a bit of a paint job on a beautifully built London road models J3 locomotive. The locomotive is built by Frank Davies and bound for Shipley Model Railway Societies Clayton project.

[Chuffer Davies]

Thanks Mike,

 

Having seen the Stanier Pacifics you and others have built for Carlisle, I can testify to their haulage capacities. Handsome is as handsome does, and they're a testament to your modelling skills.

 

Carlisle 27.jpg

 

Carlisle 32B.jpg

 

Carlisle 34.jpg

 

As you know, the rakes in these pictures are at least 13-cars long, mainly metal carriages built by Larry Goddard (wasn't it fun changing the wheels? I've still got one here to do). 

 

Along with Retford, I don't think I've photographed a more-impressive model railway, and it was a privilege to be invited by David (at the request of Steve Flint of the RM) to take the pictures in 2016. Incidentally, in conversation with Steve at Southampton, he'd like me to go over again this year for an updated photographic shoot. We must get it arranged.

 

Interestingly, a friend of mine weighted his Schools Class so much that the plastic-centred driving wheels went out of the round, after it was left standing stationary for a prolonged period. 

 

I'm very much of the 'weight & see' school of adding ballast to locos. I weight them until they're able to fulfill their duties with ease, then add a little bit more. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony.

 

Hi,

I have just been reviewing these pictures of Carlisle again. This is a project of which up until now I was unaware. Do you know if there Is a separate blog on RM Web for this layout, I have not been able to find one using the search facility? If not does anyone know if there is any other source of information that we can look up? The layout looks spectacular.

Thanks,

Frank

[nerron]

Andrew,

The NER clerestory looks the part. I am building three at the moment and they will be finished in LNER brown but with BR(NE) markings. Do you know if the lower steps would have been removed by then? What paint have you used for the muddy brown? I was planning to use Precision teak as I have done on other ex NER coaches.

[Headstock]

Andrew,

The NER clerestory looks the part. I am building three at the moment and they will be finished in LNER brown but with BR(NE) markings. Do you know if the lower steps would have been removed by then? What paint have you used for the muddy brown? I was planning to use Precision teak as I have done on other ex NER coaches.

 

Evening Ron,

 

yes the steps would have been removed. Unfortunately I am not the owner, just the renovator, hence they will remain. If they had been removed a lot more work would have been required on the underframe detail to bring it up to standard.

 

I usually mix my own colours so that there is some variation between carriages. The colour photographs that I have manage to collect show this variation with some being quite dark, however, they all conform to the general mud colour. I think that many pro painters regard  Precision track dirt as a better match for the colour rather than teak. My Father recalled seeing ex NE railway carriages painted with a full grained teak effect with lining, while others were just painted plain brown. Perhaps this is where the idea of teak coloured paint came from. After the war he saw, amongst others, a Thompson Deal bogie van at Carlisle and long wheelbase CCT's at Leeds city station. They where painted in a much richer colour that really stood out in his memory.

[DougN]

Ummm Well the brake 3rd is lovely as I have 1 still to build in the one day box I will look forward to them. I have painted mine in teak, and not mud brown. I first painted them in brown to be howled down saying they were never in the mud brown, Any how this confirmed what I now think is correct. In say the 1920's to 1930 are in teak if they went through the works and any thing after that they went Mud brown. Interestingly I have now been investigating the NER period and I wonder if a few coachs in lake would not be appropriate as my interest seems to range from early 1923 through to the mid 1940's... Not all rolling stock can be on the layout at a time so maybe a cross section of liveries is appropriate. 

[Barry O]

Hi,

I have just been reviewing these pictures of Carlisle again. This is a project of which up until now I was unaware. Do you know if there Is a separate blog on RM Web for this layout, I have not been able to find one using the search facility? If not does anyone know if there is any other source of information that we can look up? The layout looks spectacular.

Thanks,

Frank

Three articles appeared in Railway Modeller last (2017) Jan, Feb and March. Tony has added some photographs on here. No thread on here as the owner isn't on here.

 

Baz

[Jack P]

 

And finally a bit of a paint job on a beautifully built London road models J3 locomotive. The locomotive is built by Frank Davies and bound for Shipley Model Railway Societies Clayton project.

 

That brake detail is so fine! Such a beautiful model.

[Woodcock29]

And finally a bit of a paint job on a beautifully built London road models J3 locomotive. The locomotive is built by Frank Davies and bound for Shipley Model Railway Societies Clayton project.

Andrew 

Good to see Frank's J3 has got the correct yellow shaded transfers at last.  I had some input when I saw the photos of the initial paint job seen on the Clayton thread. I saw the unpainted loco at Shipley during my brief visit in May last year. 

 

Love the look of all the wagons as well

.

Andrew Emmett

[Michael Edge]

Hi,

I have just been reviewing these pictures of Carlisle again. This is a project of which up until now I was unaware. Do you know if there Is a separate blog on RM Web for this layout, I have not been able to find one using the search facility? If not does anyone know if there is any other source of information that we can look up? The layout looks spectacular.

Thanks,

Frank

There isn't a separate thread for this layout although I've put a lot on here in the course of building it. Have a look through Steve Hewitt's posts to find the semaphore signals and Peter Leyland's for some of the buildings (Carlisle buildings), the only published information so far is the Railway Modeller January/February/March 2017.

[Re6/6]

John,

 

I assume it's an A2 (Peppercorn) you have a set of frames for. Though the coupled wheelbase is the same, the chassis for an A2/2 is very different at the front end. 

 

Dave Ellis of SE Finecast does a complete set of motion for his A2 kit, which he'll sell separately. I don't know whether Comet does a set, but, if they do, that'll be very good as well.

 

With regard to Ian Beattie's drawings, treat them with suspicion indeed. Though very-well presented, those for the LNER are riddled with detail errors - a flat front to an A4 cab and a banjo dome on a V2 for instance, among many others. I can't speak for his other works, but the LNER ones aren't that good. 

Many thanks Tony. Much appreciated.

[Tony Wright]

There isn't a separate thread for this layout although I've put a lot on here in the course of building it. Have a look through Steve Hewitt's posts to find the semaphore signals and Peter Leyland's for some of the buildings (Carlisle buildings), the only published information so far is the Railway Modeller January/February/March 2017.

Thanks for that, Mike,

 

The comments about how impressive Carlisle is are entirely correct. Along with Roy Jackson's Retford, I have not photographed anything as realistic as this. It's accurate to the prototype, is, to all intents and purposes, scale-sized and it works superbly. 

 

There isn't a separate thread for Carlisle on here, of course, though, as Baz has mentioned, I've put the occasional picture on this thread. Obviously, because it was a (sort of) commission for the Railway Modeller, apart from one or two shots, I showed nothing before the articles were published at the beginning of last year. Since its publication, I think the occasional picture can be shown, if nothing else to show how fantastic the modelling is. 

 

 

 

I think it was a team of Ukranian model-makers which created Citadel's main buildings.

 

 

And Peter Leyland built this 'signature' trio of buildings.

 

 

You, of course, among many other things, are responsible for the motive power (hauling carriages built by Larry Goddard).

 

 

And Geoff Taylor laid out all the platforms. 

 

Since these pictures were taken in the summer of 2016, much, more more has been done (and we'll fix up another photographic visit in the spring/early summer), including ballasting I'm told. I will not be showing anything of the pictures I'll take then, because they'll be for publication in the RM. 

 

I count myself immensely privileged to have the opportunity of photographing such 'heroic' creations as Carlisle. I doubt if railway modelling standards have ever exceeded these heights on a layout. 

Edited February 21, 2018 by Tony Wright