Wright writes.....

[Headstock]

Undoubtedly a very early BR plate, cast using the LMS patterns.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

 

Some years back 247 developments produced for myself a similar style numberplate but with the M prefix to the LMS number.

[Jol Wilkinson]

Yes - Clifton Road junction, the massive bridge carrying Clifton Road - see right-hand side of this map. But, to disagree, I think the train (now southbound and loaded) may have come off the Midland Counties line and be headed for London, taking the Northampton route to avoid getting in the way of express passenger traffic. Not quite sure I understand the shadows - train is heading a tad east of south east here. The 8F could have worked from Wellingborough to Toton, be re-manned for a turn to London via Rugby, working back the following day. Perhaps handled by six different crews (changing over at Toton and Rugby)?

 

This site, of which you are probably already aware, has some great photos of Ruby and its approaches, although I can't see one that matches the one Tony posted.

 

http://www.warwickshirerailways.com/lms/rugby_station.htm

That's a lovely piece of modelling Jol.

 

Completely off at a tangent ... what are the rodding stools you have used which I see peeping out round the front end?

 

Tim

Tim,

 

they are from Colin Waite etches, a range of products no longer available. They are incorrect for London Road as they are apparently GWR pattern but the only ones available when the original part of the layout was built. I was fortunate to get enough from ebay and a fellow S4 Society member so I could match them on the new section.

 

Brassmasters do the correct LNWR pattern, which I found rather more fiddly to assemble but did use where the rodding goes across the tracks as it is lower in height. The attached should give some idea.

 

 

Modelu do LMS/BR 3D printed rodding stools. I believe Tony used the MSE cast w/m ones on LB.

[thegreenhowards]

Enough of grammar.

 

It'll be my fifth (at least) WOLF OF BADENOCH (why is this the most popular name in the class?).

 

 

Two reasons:

1. What an evocative name - the others weren’t bad, but the Wolf takes the biscuit (or should it be the lamb?!).

2. It’s one of only two that can be built from the DJH kit ...and doesn’t number 5 require some tweaks (to the dome perhaps?).

 

Could you remind us of how you would set about building the other four?

 

Regards

 

Andy

[Headstock]

Enough of grammar.

 

Having taken the made-up frames of this A2/2 to Warley, I've now done a bit more. It'll be my fifth (at least) WOLF OF BADENOCH (why is this the most popular name in the class?) and I'm building it for a friend. Since it'll also be able to run on Little Bytham, I might persuade him to have it as THANE OF FIFE (with a Thompson boiler). We'll see. 

 

I'm building it from a DJH kit (all-soldered, of course) and the kit most-easily makes into 60505 and 60506 (it won't suit 60503 and 60504, but can be modified to make 60501 and 60502). Naturally, I'm not reading the instructions, even though I wrote them! 

 

I'm reminded about Iain Rice's MRJ letter once again by my building this (at least the 13th A2/2 I've made). My approach, as is known, is to produce 'layout locos' (a Rice phrase, by the way), so mucking about with fancy compensation and springing is not an option. Like another poster, having seen (and in one case had for fixing) a loco built by Iain, I was ambivalent about its (their) running to say the least. The one I had to adjust (built in OO some years ago) runs fine, now that it's rigid. 

 

Like him, I've also built dozens of little locos as well (though only in OO or EM, not P4), and none of them was built anything but rigid. They included 0-4-2Ts, 2-4-0Ts, 0-4-0Ts, 0-6-0Ts, and all worked perfectly on their owners' systems. 

 

As I say, I've 'evolved' a loco-building system which works for me; it's 'my' way, 'a' way, not 'the' way. 

 

Tony,

 

presumably the biggest single difference that applies to 60501 and 60502 is the tender used with the locomotives? The rest must be smaller details such as the sandboxes and the cab side sheets. MY supply of LNER tenders dried up some years ago but fortunately the Finney range is now available.

Edited November 30, 2017 by Headstock

[micklner]

Unless they have changed ? I believe the DJH offering only covers BR only versions with a square edge  to the front top of the Cab.

[Headstock]

I would have thought so, the DJH model is based on their A1 kit. I believe it uses the same boiler, hence part of the reason for the limited options available.

[thegreenhowards]

Mike,

 

the loading of wagons on most model railways is not very well understood. In the case of pipe wagons they served a specificity purpose, that was to insure that the load was not damaged in transit. The point was to keep the individual pipes separate from one another so that rope or chains were not required. In this way the load was braced between the sides, the ends and individual layers. From memory the load was not aloud to exceed the height of the wagon by more than a third of the diameter of a pipe. You can see that they were for particular traffic such as cast iron pipes and those with flanges or other delicate parts that could be damaged by stacking them up on a bogie bolster. The pipes in the wagons were often packed with straw so that only the top layer would be visible, in addition straw would be wrapped around the ends of the pipes. If you see a chained pyramid of pipes piled up in a model wagon it is really defeating the point of why they were designed in the first place

 

The Giant Stanton / Staveley iron works was one of the principal centres for pipe traffic and used hundreds of the wagons, they were turning out finished products rather than the raw material you may get on a bogie bolster. Finally, believe it or not, despite what modellers like to portray, pipes came in various lengths and did not conveniently fit perfectly into a wagon. This would require extra bracing across one end of the wagon to hold the load tight. Pipe wagons would be rarely empty containing remnants of straw and plenty of wood used in the bracing on their return journey back to the works.

 

The loading of bogie bolsters on model railways is another can of worms.

Andrew,

 

This is fascinating and highlights all the defects that my pipe wagons have! How do you model the straw? Do you have a photo of a model loaded pipe wagon that you could share?

 

Thanks

 

Andy

[Headstock]

Unless they have changed ? I believe the DJH offering only covers BR only versions with a square edge  to the front top of the Cab.

 

I'm particularly interested in the York based Thompson Pacific's, as they would work B16 diagrams, Dringhouses to Woodford. According to my copious notes acquired from a friendly local spotter, Cock 'O' the North and Lord President were recorded on these workings as were all of Yorks allocation of class A2/3. The DJH kit is probably a bit of a pain to make one of the York A2/2 types, a better option would probably be the A2/3. How did you produce your original boiler version Mick, I assume you will have done at least one?

[micklner]

I'm particularly interested in the York based Thompson Pacific's, as they would work B16 diagrams, Dringhouses to Woodford. According to my copious notes acquired from a friendly local spotter, Cock 'O' the North and Lord President were recorded on these workings as were all of Yorks allocation of class A2/3. The DJH kit is probably a bit of a pain to make one of the York A2/2 types, a better option would probably be the A2/3. How did you produce your original boiler version Mick, I assume you will have done at least one?

 

Luckily I realised before it was too late that the DJH doesn't cover the LNER version. The ones I have built are the Graeme King resin / Bachmann A2 versions with GBL A4 cabs added. 

[Headstock]

Andrew,

 

This is fascinating and highlights all the defects that my pipe wagons have! How do you model the straw? Do you have a photo of a model loaded pipe wagon that you could share?

 

Thanks

 

Andy

 

Andy,

 

I have posted an image before, after Dinner I will have a search for it, if I can't find it I will repost with more details.

 

Luckily I realised before it was too late that the DJH doesn't cover the LNER version. The ones I have built are the Graeme King resin / Bachmann A2 versions with GBL A4 cabs added. 

 

Thanks Mick,

 

I'm not really in the loop with all the resin conversion thing but your own work looks very impressive, are the kits still available? I think that PDK probably do the original boiler version, however I know that you have a low opinion of them.

[Tony Wright]

As Iain also said, "horses for courses". For me, building locos with some sort of ability for the wheels to move to deal with track irregularities is essential. So I always use compensation, sometimes mixed with springing, usually for bogies and radial or pony trucks. And, like you, I regard my locos and rolling stock as layout models. Perhaps an irony in this is that I have several relatively lightweight locos, which pick up on only two axles and will run all day long under exhibition conditions without  problems. Of course they aren't hauling fourteen coaches at scale speed of 70 mph, but are doing what I require of them. That means starting and stopping reliably, running smoothly at slower "station limits" speeds and while hauling no more than six carriages, some of those are fairly heavy. This LNWR Precursor Tank has pickup on the two coupled axles only, partly because it wasn't going to be easy to add any on the bogie and pony truck, but it turned out they weren't necessary. The carriage behind it is one of a number I have built from Brian Badger or Stevenson carriage kits. Copper  clad paxolin floor, cast ends, bogie sides, battery boxes, etc. and rather heavy so a rake of these need a reasonably amount of tractive effort.

 

Precursor Tank on LR.jpg

]

 

Of course, there are those that claim they can build "dead" level track and baseboards that don't move with changes in temperature and moisture. So building a model that sits flat on a piece of glass will always run well. To quote a phrase used by younger people "Yeah, right!" (I am sure Jesse will correct me on that if I have got it wrong). I take that view because that was how I used to build models when I built 00 models, often poor runners. It wasn't until I changed over to compensated P4 chassis, that I found I could, repeatedly and consistently, build locos that ran as well as I wanted.

 

Your way works for you. However, I suggest that a straightforward approach to building rigid chassis doesn't work for everyone. Why else do so many people have problems with getting even simple loco chassis to run? Why else is your loco clinic so well patronised? I suggest it is because they don't appreciate that basic, simple, engineering premises apply, such as the correlation between axle/coupling rod alignment. Building compensated chassis using hornblocks and alignment jigs takes care of that. Yes it is more "fiddly" and time consuming than assembling a rigid chassis. However, even a rigid chassis for a simple loco needs some care and attention. I would also add that it's the number of coupled axles that requires the need for care, not the overall size and "glamour" of the loco.

Thanks Jol,

 

A beautiful model - my compliments.

 

I'd agree that for P4 (which I admit to never having built anything in), for a steam-outline loco in 18.83 some form of compensation/spring is essential in its frames for good running. 

 

Though there are a few kit-built locos which I have to attend to from time to time at my 'clinic', most are RTR. 

 

What I can't understand is that if a person can't erect a rigid chassis which works, are you (by implication?) suggesting that they try making a 'floppy' one? 

 

What I also can't understand is how it appears to be so difficult for some to build a simple, rigid chassis. Assuming that the frames (if it's a kit) are accurately cut-out or etched, then what's the problem? Insert the bearings, jig up the frames using the rods as a guide, employing a Poppy's Wood Jig, Avonside jig, Hobby Holidays Jig, Jamieson Jig, Comet Jig, Markits jig axles or London Road jig axles (are there any others?) and solder everything together. That done, pass a one eight taper reamer through the bearings and Bob's your uncle! Insert the motor/gearbox (which will have been made/checked beforehand for perfect running), add the drivers, fix the pick-ups and try the rods. The bearing holes in the rods might just need the slightest broaching out, but not much. With the wheels on, I check everything is dead-flat on a piece of plate glass. Occasionally (very rarely), there'll be the tiniest bit of 'rock'. If so, I just twist the whole lot between my fingers (engineers, please cringe!), and then all's well. Where's the mystery in that? I might add that I only use Markits/Romford wheels, which are invariably true-round (but expensive). Having used other makes in the past, some are anything but concentric. 

 

Granted, some rather 'iffy' kits of yore had rods and the holes for them in the frames 'negotiable', but everything I've built in more recent times from the likes of DJH, SE Finecast, PDK, DMR, London Road and others have had a perfect match. Oddly enough (or is it odd, given it's me?), the only two I've 'struggled' with in recent years had compensation/springing supplied at source. Neither worked (well, they flopped along!), until I made the frames rigid and made new rods. 

 

As I say, now well the wrong side (or right, if you prefer) of 400 locos later, I know what/which works for me. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony.  

Edited November 30, 2017 by Tony Wright

[Tony Wright]

This site, of which you are probably already aware, has some great photos of Ruby and its approaches, although I can't see one that matches the one Tony posted.

 

http://www.warwickshirerailways.com/lms/rugby_station.htm

Tim,

 

they are from Colin Waite etches, a range of products no longer available. They are incorrect for London Road as they are apparently GWR pattern but the only ones available when the original part of the layout was built. I was fortunate to get enough from ebay and a fellow S4 Society member so I could match them on the new section.

 

Brassmasters do the correct LNWR pattern, which I found rather more fiddly to assemble but did use where the rodding goes across the tracks as it is lower in height. The attached should give some idea.

 

LR No 2 SB.jpg

 

Modelu do LMS/BR 3D printed rodding stools. I believe Tony used the MSE cast w/m ones on LB.

Thanks Jol,

 

I did (do) use the MSE cast stools (and all their rods and cranks) because they can be soldered together. 

[micklner]

Andy,

 

I have posted an image before, after Dinner I will have a search for it, if I can't find it I will repost with more details.

 

 

Thanks Mick,

 

I'm not really in the loop with all the resin conversion thing but your own work looks very impressive, are the kits still available? I think that PDK probably do the original boiler version, however I know that you have a low opinion of them.

 

Graeme King is the man to ask for availablity on his kits. I have a Bugatti Resin Nose  P2 on the go at the moment, which so far has been excellent. 

 

PDK ? I have only built their poor A1/1 as mentioned before with a resin boiler, too wide frames etc. Their newer B16 however looks good , which TW has built.  I will however wait for the LRM version (due next year)  personally. One bitten twice shy as the saying goes.

Edited November 30, 2017 by micklner

[The Stationmaster]

A request, please.

 

Does anyone know where this is? It's a Wellingborough-shedded 8F, but where? 

 

Dsc_8091.jpg

 

Taken in 1948, there are colour light signals, and a large girder bridge in the background. Could it be just south of Rugby?

 

Many thanks in anticipation.

 

I'm fairly sure that it is just south of Rugby and that the brick arch bridge is that carrying the B5414 (nowadays) Clifton Road over the WCML just north of Clifton Road Junction.  The 8F and train is on the Up Northampton Goods, the line immediately next to it is the Up Northampton and the line on the left curving away to the left is the Up London.  The signal in rear of the overbridge has a Position 1 junction indicator reading to the Up London Goods which diverges from the Up London on the far side of the bridge immediately behind the photographer.

 

So more than enough clues to, I sincerely hope, accurately place it - it fits with the 25" OS map and it fits with the (Clifton Road area) IB signals, and there is the GC line viaduct in the background.

[Tony Wright]

Two reasons:

1. What an evocative name - the others weren’t bad, but the Wolf takes the biscuit (or should it be the lamb?!).

2. It’s one of only two that can be built from the DJH kit ...and doesn’t number 5 require some tweaks (to the dome perhaps?).

 

Could you remind us of how you would set about building the other four?

 

Regards

 

Andy

Andy,

 

You're right; as supplied, the DJH A2/2 kit makes up most easily into 60505 and 60506 (both these - in real life - received Peppercorn 118 A1 boilers. 60505 later got a Thompson 117 A2/3 boiler, which meant its dome was one ring further forward, but had a streamlined cover). 60505 can be made easily from the DJH kit with its Thompson boiler by filling the depression (for the usual dome position) with solder and moving the dome further forward. 

 

Both 60501 and 60502 can be made from the DJH kit (they both received Dia. 118 boilers), though the cabs and tender tops will need some modification. The cab sides and the tender sides at the front and rear respectively will need turning-in (as on an A3) and beading soldered in place (in the case of the tender, all the along the top where it starts to curve-over). I've done this, and it's not too difficult. 

 

 

Oddly enough, some 800 and plenty pages ago, this thread started with a discussion on Thompson's Pacifics. The model shown above was the prototype for the DJH A2/2. I'd been pestering John Hughes for ages, saying that DJH made most of the parts for an A2/2 already, but just in different kits. He asked me what was needed, so I requested an A1 smokebox/boiler/firebox, footplate, smokebox door, cab, cab roof, Cartazzi frames, bogie, pony, front steps, backhead and various boiler fittings. Next was an A2 set of cylinders and motion. Then an A3 tender (new type, non-corridor) and cab. I scratch-built a set of frames and scratch-built the front and central footplate, soldering them to the rear end of the A1 footplate (having cut off the central footplate and front end). I then cut off the A1 cabsides and the A3 cabsides and soldered the A3 cabsides to the A1 cab front, soldering the assembly to the footplate. The building then just followed my standard practice (the A2 motion needed altering). I scratch-built the weeny deflectors (those on the A3 kit aren't long enough). The model was then sent back to DJH for them to 'dismantle' (not physically, of course) and an assessment made. I pointed out that the streamlined non-corridor tender was also suitable (for 60505/6). 

 

A couple of years later (having returned my model, which Ian Rathbone then painted so beautifully), a box of castings and etchings arrived, along with some rudimentary drawings, with the request that I build the second prototype (which was the production version) and write the instructions, which I did. 

 

 

This is that first model. At the same time I also built one for DJH themselves and one for a customer (all as 60506). DJH sold theirs eventually. I was paid in kits!

 

 

The reason for DJH not producing a kit for 60503/4 is shown here. Both LORD PRESIDENT and MONS MEG retained their original cut-down P2 boilers to withdrawal, complete with full 'V'-fronted cab. The boiler cladding was in only four sections and the smokebox was longer. The 'S' curve in the footplate was also further forward. Since none of these features were seen on a Peppercorn-boilered loco, it just wasn't cost-effective. I built this from a Crownline kit. There are elements of this I dislike, particularly the resin boiler. The cabsides are also the wrong proportion (I've altered these). With Ian Rathbone's painting, it doesn't look too bad. Crownline/PDK (does anyone know what's happened to PDK?) also do the kit to suit the other four locos.

 

The DJH A2/3 kit was a natural progression, and I built the first one of those. 

 

 

Here it is, again painted by Ian Rathbone. 

 

 

For those are unhappy about building kits for Thompson Pacifics, Graeme King does some excellent resin castings and etchings to convert Bachmann Peppercorn A2s. Tim Easter used Graeme's parts and a Bachmann A2 to make 60505 for Gilbert Barnatt. I provided the cab parts - spares from the DJH A2/2-A2/3 kit. He's made a lovely job. Micklner has also shown some fine examples.

 

Since my preference is always for soldering, then conversions such as the above are not for me. Try soldering resin, it doesn't work and you just get a stink! Apart from the A2/3 conversion which Graeme did for me (which I painted/weathered), all my Thompson Pacifics are built from kits. 

 

As for the minutiae of detail differences among the A2/2s - sandbox fillers, vacuum ejector pipes, chimneys, dome postions, front numberplate positions, nameplate positions (all of them moved further forward later on), smokebox handrails, smokebox door cross rail and so forth, I suggest consulting prototype pictures.

 

I hope this helps.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Edited November 30, 2017 by Tony Wright

[gr.king]

Could somebody who has far more spare time than I do, along with an excellent ability to summarise things effectively without loss of key details, please write a daily summary of this thread in no more than a couple of compact paragraphs? I might then actually be able to keep up!

[EHertsGER]

This was the attitude of our English teacher.

 

During O levels we studied Chaucer and Shakespeare, he taught us that the English language has never stood still and that what we were being taught would have been incomprehensible only a few hundred years before.

Personally I like the regional variations we have in the UK, having visitors from the USA a couple of years ago they were astounded that we travelled just a short distance, and yet the language changed so much. On several occasions we had to translate for them.

Indeed; there is a school of thought - and I say this as I am unable to cite an actual academic discipline or source, so rumor it must remain until someone here puts me right one way or the other - that the utterances of my fellow countrymen (can I still say that without being pilloried for something or other?) here in the USA are a more authentic version of the English language than that of the 'home country'. The argument proffered runs something akin to that of the Quebequois (as, it seems, they are always arguing about something): the 'genuine' language was brought across the Atlantic and preserved (as in the 'rhotic R' of the USA version; I cannot offer any comparison to the French, but then who can?) in everyday speech as the peoples separated by the Atlantic Ocean began to evolve along separate arcs. In the UK 'received pronunciation/BBC English/posh' (or however one wishes to describe it) emerged as a means by which the nouveaux riches (my grandmother always maintained they made their money after the Civil War - the English one) could distinguish themselves in their upward mobility from the rest of us and be accepted at Court. Another view is that is all came about with 'talkies' insofar as the BBC needed to be understood and so an exaggerated speech pattern was necessary to defeat dodgy microphones. The absence of recordings prior to...well, recording equipment...leaves all that to be rather convenient.

Me? Well, I'm rather stuck with they way wot I talks ('gee I lurve your wunnerful acceynt' 'Thank you madam, but its been following me around for years. There is nothing I can do.') but I agree that provided the sense is understood then the objective of communication is achieved.

Now all we have to do is stop daft writing a lot of nonsense in response to a post...oh, I see. Better stop then.

best,

Marcus

[Arthur]

Andrew,

This is fascinating and highlights all the defects that my pipe wagons have! How do you model the straw? Do you have a photo of a model loaded pipe wagon that you could share?

Thanks

Andy

 

We had a thread on pipe wagon loading a little while back;

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/43656-parkside-br-tube-wagon-loading-information/

 

and I posted some general information and photos here;

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/43656-parkside-br-tube-wagon-loading-information/?p=474187

 

As pointed out in that thread, there is no technical differentiation between tube and pipe, the terms are interchangeable. There are significant differences between cast iron hollow sections and steel hollow sections which impact on their appearance, handling and loading.

 

The major suppliers of cast iron pipe and fittings were Stanton, near Nottingham, who used a patented ‘spun’ process and Staveley, near Chesterfield, who used conventional casting methods. The companies later merged and were owned by Stewarts & Lloyds, the UKs largest steel tube maker.

 

Stanton also had a very large trade in concrete pipes (and, like Staveley, traded in other cast iron products).

 

.

[St Enodoc]

The carriage behind it is one of a number I have built from Brian Badger or Stevenson carriage kits. Copper  clad paxolin floor, cast ends, bogie sides, battery boxes, etc. and rather heavy so a rake of these need a reasonably amount of tractive effort.

Very nice Jol. I too use copperclad for coach floors on the likes of BSL kits, although I haven't come across many other references to it. It makes life very simple when it comes to soldering on cast fittings, brass trussing and so on.

[St Enodoc]

Andrew,

 

This is fascinating and highlights all the defects that my pipe wagons have! How do you model the straw? Do you have a photo of a model loaded pipe wagon that you could share?

 

Thanks

 

Andy

Unravelled sisal?

[jwealleans]

Plumber's hemp.

[Headstock]

Andrew,

 

This is fascinating and highlights all the defects that my pipe wagons have! How do you model the straw? Do you have a photo of a model loaded pipe wagon that you could share?

 

Thanks

 

Andy

 

Andy,

 

here is a link to the original post.

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/64295-wright-writes/page-355

 

I will be shortly sending you a PM of some images from the Stanton archive pertaining to the loading of cast, spun, concrete and concrete lined pipes, if I can remember how to do it..

 

edited Post 8857

Edited November 30, 2017 by Headstock

[Tony Wright]

Graeme King is the man to ask for availablity on his kits. I have a Bugatti Resin Nose  P2 on the go at the moment, which so far has been excellent. 

 

PDK ? I have only built their poor A1/1 as mentioned before with a resin boiler, too wide frames etc. Their newer B16 however looks good , which TW has built.  I will however wait for the LRM version (due next year)  personally. One bitten twice shy as the saying goes.

PDK B16s?

 

Superlative kits in my view, and all brass/nickel silver apart from a few cast details. 

 

 

PDK B16/1 in LNER condition. Built by me, painted by Ian Rathbone.

 

 

PDK B16/1. PDK-built and painted for Tom Foster, and weathered by Tom Foster. I tweaked the chassis to give the running I demand.

 

 

 

PDK B16/2. Built by Mike Edge for Tom Foster, with many additions. I fitted a new motor gearbox to give silent performance, painted it and Tom Foster weathered it. 

 

 

PDK B16/3. Built and painted by John Houlden for Tom Foster. Weathered by Tom Foster. Again, chassis tweaks necessary by me to give the running I demand. 

 

What's rather pleasing (in a selfish sort of way?) is that nothing like these is available RTR, though might they be one day? 

[micklner]

Mike Meggison's build of the ex Steve Barnard B16 kit to be released in updated form by LRM next year, also looks good.

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/101015-mikemegs-workbench-building-locos-of-the-north-eastern/page-21

 

 

 

Now the pictures have been posted, one for Hornby to announce in January ??

[John Isherwood]

 

How do you model the straw?

 

First find a bullrush - if you live in the Fens, or close to a canal, this part is easier !!

 

Cut it off and take it home, and place it in a warm, dry place. It will dry out, and at some point, sort of explode.

 

You will be left with a LOT of dry, downy, straw-coloured fluff - which is ideal for representing 4mm. scale straw.

 

I have used it very successfully in cattle pens - with a long-suffering menial, with a wheelbarrow and fork, tidying-up after the stock have departed.

 

.... and in seeking your bullrush, you get a good country walk into the bargain !!

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.