Wright writes.....

[The Fatadder]

On the DCC front I wouldn’t worry too much, just hard wire the decoder in the tender and keep the loco / tender always coupled. I’ve had a few problems with failed wires in the Hornby connector between the loco and tender so I am never worried about removing it. But if separation is required there are some much better plug / socket combinations available.

 

As for the painting and lining of the new tender, I would suggest two options. For the “best” visual appearance, buy a Hornby tender in the right livery (assuming there is one) and adapt it all to fit. Just be aware that Hornby often wire the loco to tender socket differently on different batches of a loco (sometimes even on the same batch). I’ve had a couple of Hornby locos (refuse to run due to a motor wire terminal on the loco connecting to a pickup wire on the tender

 

If you prefer to build the kit tender (or its the only option) I would strip the loco body and repaint and reline both loco and tender. Yes the finish will not be as good as the original Hornby (unless your name is Rathbone / Goddard etc.) However it will be consistent (and it will all be your own work).

 

I recently detailed a Bachmann Modified Hall, which I wanted to back date into GWR condition. My intention at the start of the project was to simply re line the cab sides, rebrand the tender, and partially repaint the areas in the front end which had been chopped up. In the end the difference between the lining (HMRS) that I had applied and the lining by Bachmann was so much I decided to remove all of the latter and reline myself. Yes it took a long time (and simplified post war GWR lining is a lot simpler than inter war LNER), but I think the end result is a lot more consistent (if not as fine) and certainly gives me a lot of pleasure when I look at it and think I did that myself.

 

 

On the other than the fact that it seems to have blown a DCC decoder for no apparent reason means it is now hidden away in the back of a stock box…

Edited November 22, 2017 by The Fatadder

[Compound2632]

I think I'll stick with equine bartering. 

 

Ah but the horses you bring to market are in a class of their own - chiefly A3.

[Jesse Sim]

Jesse,

 

I'd suspect your problems would start before you got to the decoder.  It's the deceptively simple phrase 'build and paint'.  Build, yes, no bother (although I'd try to get hold of a Bachmann GS tender to save myself the time if it were me). 

 

'Paint'.  First you have to match the Hornby colour - can be done as Graeme has shown, but not necessarily straightforward if you can't get hold of all the different paints we can in the UK.  Then line it to the same standard as the loco (we're in full LNER green here).  Or if that doesn't work, you repaint the loco to match the tender, then you have to line that back to the same standard as before you started.... I couldn't. 

 

You might find that a tender swap gets you the same plug/socket setup as the loco already has, in which case, happy days as they say.  If not there are plenty of options for fitting your own plug in connection.  I'd worry more about the external finish of the whole thing.

 

 

Jesse

You can fit the decoder in a kit tender. You will need 4 wires to get power and motor drive across between the two. With a bit of fiddling you can re-use the Hornby tender coupling system again then you need two wires. For connections like this I use simple dil socket strips.

 

Biggest problem is, as JW has said is painting and lining the new tender.

 

Perhaps a pre painted tender body and a comet tender chassis kit?

 

Baz

 

 

There's very little room in the loco. It would be better to get hold of a Hornby tender. But Hornby don't supply such spares- unfortunately. You could try swapping tenders with someone would mutually want a swap? Try here or keep an eye on ebay. No easy solution tbh.

 

 

Could you not simply put it in the kit tender?  I don't know how it might be mounted at the moment, but cutting out the holder or buying a suitable wired plate if the decoder is plug-in and then the micro plug as described above.

I think it might be best to find another Hornby or Bachmann GS tender.

 

The problem i was worried about was, how would I kit built a tender, whilst having the tender top removable to be able to get to the decoder if need be. 

 

Building, painting and lining the loco or tender doesn't bother me. I am pretty keen to give it a go, as Barry and Jonathan know, I'm eager to give anything a go! 

 

Thanks all for the help, appreciate it!

 

Jesse 

[Anglian]

Good on you. However, I suspect he would clog the tip up with solder.

 

 

He could solder up a jig that held the pen at the correct position and that had a paint feed to the nib, if one were needed. The device could be soldered to a piece of track to allow each coach to be gently propelled through the contraption, the result being a perfectly painted line in no time at all. Simply a variation of the technique potters use to paint lines on round ceramics, using a turntable.

Edited November 22, 2017 by Anglian

[MikeTrice]

Just to clarify, and I apologise if it has already been mentioned, when lining Gresley coaches in BR livery the black is on the beading but the yellow is either side:

[micklner]

Re GS tenders buy if you can find one a Hornby B1 Tender in Apple Green they have only been done so far in "British Railways" lettering.

[Headstock]

Re GS tenders buy if you can find one a Hornby B1 Tender in Apple Green they have only been done so far in "British Railways" lettering.

 

Morning Mick. not the right sort of tender for a B17. It would require a lot of modification, involving the replacement of the forward bulkhead and probably a repaint by the time the side sheets were cut down to the B17 profile. It would perhaps be better to just buy a B17/4 in BR livery and repaint.

[Headstock]

He could solder up a jig that held the pen at the correct position and that had a paint feed to the nib, if one were needed. The device could be soldered to a piece of track to allow each coach to be gently propelled through the contraption, the result being a perfectly painted line in no time at all. Simply a variation of the technique potters use to paint lines on round ceramics, using a turntable.

 

One slip of the controller and you would have a go faster stripe down the tender of the propelling locomotive.

[micklner]

Morning Mick. not the right sort of tender for a B17. It would require a lot of modification, involving the replacement of the forward bulkhead and probably a repaint by the time the side sheets were cut down to the B17 profile. It would perhaps be better to just buy a B17/4 in BR livery and repaint.

 

Finding any of them is a challenge, either Hornby version is better than the old Bachmann version.

 

 

I suggested the B1 version to save doing the repaint !!

[gr.king]

I've back-dated lined LNER green high front tenders to represent the older low front type, including the most obvious front bulkhead mods, and have managed to do it without having to repaint anything more than the top front corners of the edge lining on each of the sides, but it demands very careful work (as do many things if you want a proper result). I was even daft enough and determined enough once to change a Hornby Shire tender to the stepped-out coping variety, still minimising the repainting so that only the sides above the main panel of lining required a re-paint.

Something else to consider of course is that there's no certainty that a Bachmann tender in one of their versions of LNER green will actually match a Hornby loco in one of Hornby's versions of the colour.

It's a shame we don't have rigorously applied paint colour standards across the RTR manufacturers and the model railway paint suppliers. The lack of such is as big a nuisance as the historic lack of OO wheel and track standards.

[Compound2632]

It's a shame we don't have rigorously applied paint colour standards across the RTR manufacturers and the model railway paint suppliers.

 

There's an unwarranted assumption creeping in here about the consistency of paint colour on the prototype!

[Tony Wright]

Today, a splendid time was spent with three friends running LB. 

 

What appeared as visiting stock has never, ever been seen on Little Bytham before................

 

 

I'm familiar with the prototype for this (it used to run into Chester on test), but this is a scratch-built model of GT3 by Clive Mortimer. After my cleaning the wheels and tweaking the mech', it ran very well. I'll ask Clive to please explain about it, if I may? 

 

 

I must plead total ignorance of what these cars are, other than (if I overheard correctly) they make a Class 30 something and some of the parts are from Replica. Again, may I please ask Clive to comment? 

 

 

This is Richard Irven's model (incomplete) of the LNER Cinema Car. Once the ghastly wheels it was carried on had been chucked away and replaced, it ran very well (the out-of-place adjacent vehicles nullified any coupling incompatibilities). Indeed, everything ran well - at high speed at times! 

 

What a fascinating selection of visiting models, brought by visiting model-makers. How can anything straight-out-of-a-box-RTR be as interesting as these items? Not to me, anyway. Made of plastic, they can't be soldered, but so what? The fixing-together agents for these models were glues of different types. Exactly the right media. 

 

Thanks for an excellent day, chaps.  

Edited November 22, 2017 by Tony Wright

[Tony Teague]

Morning,

 

 

I have the Hornby B17, but I wish to convert it to a B17/4, with a 4,200 gallon group standard tender. My question to you is, if I get a kit for a 4,200 GS tender, build it and paint it, to be attached to the B17, how and where would I place the decoder? As the decoder is in the Hornby Tender. 

 

Jesse

What about switching to DC and leaving the decoder out?

(Only a suggestion from an old Luddite!)

Tony

[Tony Teague]

Perhaps I am being too sensitive.

 

Apologies for my very late response on this but I have been playing catch-up.

I just wanted to say that you are not alone!

I am a great fan of this thread and get a lot of inspiration from it, and LB in particular, but I certainly used to feel a bit inadequate in the loco-building department - despite building my own baseboards, doing 90% of my own wiring, building & painting wagon kits, coach kits and until recently all of my scenery, I either bought RTR or commissioned the loco kit-builds from others.

Tony then very kindly gave me a lesson in loco-building and I have now almost finished two - but to be honest it is never going to be the favourite aspect of railway modelling for me - plus I really have to admit to having far too many locos!

So, do I now feel inadequate in any way, or that I am not a 'proper' modeller?

Not at all, because I am doing what gives me the most pleasure and using what skills & competencies I have, plus when I buy RTR or commission work from others I am helping to keep the hobby alive.

Tony

[LNER4479]

I hope to see you this Sunday at Warley.

I note Messers King and Welleans will also be demonstrating. I hope all have you have retained your usual helpfulness and good humour by the second day. I will try not to test it too much!

 

Best wishes Brian

Don't forget to call in on stand A56 whilst you're in the demo area - I have it on good authority that up to five of 'Sir's locos will be running on the 1967-themed layout...

[Clive Mortimore]

Today, a splendid time was spent with three friends running LB. 

 

What appeared as visiting stock has never, ever been seen on Little Bytham before................

 

Clive GT3.jpg

 

I'm familiar with the prototype for this (it used to run into Chester on test), but this is a scratch-built model of GT3 by Clive Mortimer. After my cleaning the wheels and tweaking the mech', it ran very well. I'll ask Clive to please explain about it, if I may? 

 

Clive units.jpg

 

I must plead total ignorance of what these cars are, other than (if I overheard correctly) they make a Class 30 something and some of the parts are from Replica. Again, may I please ask Clive to comment? 

 

Richard Cinema Car.jpg

 

This is Richard Irven's model (incomplete) of the LNER Cinema Car. Once the ghastly wheels it was carried on had been chucked away and replaced, it ran very well (the out-of-place adjacent vehicles nullified any coupling incompatibilities). Indeed, everything ran well - at high speed at times! 

 

What a fascinating selection of visiting models, brought by visiting model-makers. How can anything straight-out-of-a-box-RTR be as interesting as these items? Not to me, anyway. Made of plastic, they can't be soldered, but so what? The fixing-together agents for these models were glues of different types. Exactly the right media. 

 

Thanks for an excellent day, chaps.  

Thank you Tony for a nice day and thank Mo for lunch and beverages.

 

The model of GT3 is one that I started many many moons ago, could even before Mr Blair was PM. The body is just a bit of plastic card bunged together, thankfully I have a few drawings of this loco to guide me. The chassis is scratch built from brass. Tony said the motor was a D10 and it has 1 in 30 gears. I couldn't remember what it was powered by or what the  gears were. The coupling rods look over size and train setty but GT3 did have heavier rods than  most steam locos. It had to run in reverse owing to the builder losing the tender and loco coupling. It was great to see it run on a large layout so it could exercise its legs.

 

The two units under construction will be a class 302 and a class 308. The 302 mainly Bachmann short BR suburbans with bits added. The underframes including the power unit are Replica models. Cabs from plastic card and Tri-ang coaches. The 308 basis is Replica long BR suburbans, with a Replica powered underframe. The trailer coaches have scratchbuilt chassis (don't ask me why) with MTK trussing. The cabs have been scratchbuilt, I have been asked in the past why not use DC model cab ends, where is the fun in that?

 

Later on we ran some more 25 KV ac units classes 304/2, 305 (3car) and 307. The 304 and 307 were zooming around LB under the control of Richard i. Tony suggested they race the 305, that done it coaches all over the shop. Otherwise seeing EMUs whizzing around LB was a tad different. They will be returning when finished.

 

Hasn't Richard done a good job on the Cinema coach? Last time I saw it, it was painted maroon, no bogies, roof was loose, and in a box being carried away from my model den by Richard. Well don mate. 

 

Tony had to leave us to our own devises for a short period, I was allowed to operate the fiddle yard. A limited service was continued. Thanks for a good day.

[Jesse Sim]

What about switching to DC and leaving the decoder out?

(Only a suggestion from an old Luddite!)

Tony

It must be the name, every Tony i know doesn't like DCC. 

[Headstock]

I think it might be best to find another Hornby or Bachmann GS tender.

 

The problem i was worried about was, how would I kit built a tender, whilst having the tender top removable to be able to get to the decoder if need be. 

 

Building, painting and lining the loco or tender doesn't bother me. I am pretty keen to give it a go, as Barry and Jonathan know, I'm eager to give anything a go! 

 

Thanks all for the help, appreciate it!

 

Jesse 

 

Evening Jesse,

 

there doesn't seem to be a conclusive opinion on B17 'tendergate'.

 

The options would seem to be

 

1. couple it to a Hornby B1 tender and ignore the differences, including any potential colour mismatch between the two, although this could be prototypical. Alternatively, an eight wheel GN tender may be an option as they seem to be more available and conveniently have LNER on the Side.

 

2. Hide your existing locomotive in a cupboard and purchase a new one with the correct tender. Then repaint it LNER green (two shades) and borrow the amazing, self propelled, automatic lining device mentioned by Anglian.

 

3. Plastic surgery on a Bachmann B1 tender and patch paint the corners rather like touching up a tennis court.

 

4. Construct your tender kit. Mr Bradwell dose a fiendishly intricate one, so intricate it comes with water that may be detrimental to your decoder.

 

In order to stay in Tony's good books you may have to go with the kit option. Whatever you do, don't tell him that you haven't used solder, thus guaranteeing that the top conveniently falls off allowing instant access to the soggy electrics.

[Manxcat]

I purchased a copy of Tony's book "Modelling the East Coast Main Line in the British Railways Era" the day it was published. It is the best modelling book I have ever purchased. I do not say that lightly and in 45 years of modelling I have an extensive library of modelling publications.

 

I absolutely love the format. For those of you who don't yet have a copy, a brief introduction to each chapter is followed by a detailed explanation of the construction of a particular element, or elements, of Little Bytham. Those explanations are in the form of several pages of absolutely superb photographs of those elements with brief but highly informative explanations of the techniques and materials used.

 

In my humble opinion this book suits both those who might wish to read a lot of it in chapter order as well as those who might like to dip in and out of it over a longer period. I have read it from cover to cover several times and keep going back to it to remind myself of some of the modelling techniques used and to just savour the fantastic photos. Thank you Tony.

 

It should not come as a surprise to you to learn that Tony credits his many modelling friends who have contributed to the construction of the layout, throughout the book.

 

If you do not already have a copy you should buy one now. 

 

Archie

[gr.king]

There's an unwarranted assumption creeping in here about the consistency of paint colour on the prototype!

That's a fair and valid point, but I suspect the blatant shade differences seen on comparing certain models and paints are just too much to pass the "convincing model making" test, highly subjective as that inevitably is. It's bit like wonky handrails, distorted running plates and misaligned numerals, which all occurred on the real thing but which more often than not just look like bad building in a model.

[Clive Mortimore]

There's an unwarranted assumption creeping in here about the consistency of paint colour on the prototype!

Hi

 

David Jenkinson wrote about a conversation he had with the chap who mixed the GWR paints, it went something on the lines of this, " If I had a good night with the missus, and I came to work in a happy mood I would carefully measure the quantities of pigment and oil. If she had nagged me before leaving home it just got thrown in."  

 

Variation happened from time to time even with the best quality controls, let alone what happened once the locos left the paint shop.

[Clearwater]

I purchased a copy of Tony's book "Modelling the East Coast Main Line in the British Railways Era" the day it was published. It is the best modelling book I have ever purchased. I do not say that lightly and in 45 years of modelling I have an extensive library of modelling publications.

 

I absolutely love the format. For those of you who don't yet have a copy, a brief introduction to each chapter is followed by a detailed explanation of the construction of a particular element, or elements, of Little Bytham. Those explanations are in the form of several pages of absolutely superb photographs of those elements with brief but highly informative explanations of the techniques and materials used.

 

In my humble opinion this book suits both those who might wish to read a lot of it in chapter order as well as those who might like to dip in and out of it over a longer period. I have read it from cover to cover several times and keep going back to it to remind myself of some of the modelling techniques used and to just savour the fantastic photos. Thank you Tony.

 

It should not come as a surprise to you to learn that Tony credits his many modelling friends who have contributed to the construction of the layout, throughout the book.

 

If you do not already have a copy you should buy one now. 

 

Archie

Funnily enough, my copy arrived yesterday and I fully agree with Archie's comments. It's an excellent guide to building a layout. It's also a book you can dip in and out of without reading cover to cover.

 

David

[St Enodoc]

Hi

 

David Jenkinson wrote about a conversation he had with the chap who mixed the GWR paints, it went something on the lines of this, " If I had a good night with the missus, and I came to work in a happy mood I would carefully measure the quantities of pigment and oil. If she had nagged me before leaving home it just got thrown in."  

 

Variation happened from time to time even with the best quality controls, let alone what happened once the locos left the paint shop.

So he did his best work after a night with not much sleep? Today's fatigue management police wouldn't like that!

[Richard E]

I purchased a copy of Tony's book "Modelling the East Coast Main Line in the British Railways Era" the day it was published. It is the best modelling book I have ever purchased. I do not say that lightly and in 45 years of modelling I have an extensive library of modelling publications.

 

I absolutely love the format. For those of you who don't yet have a copy, a brief introduction to each chapter is followed by a detailed explanation of the construction of a particular element, or elements, of Little Bytham. Those explanations are in the form of several pages of absolutely superb photographs of those elements with brief but highly informative explanations of the techniques and materials used.

 

In my humble opinion this book suits both those who might wish to read a lot of it in chapter order as well as those who might like to dip in and out of it over a longer period. I have read it from cover to cover several times and keep going back to it to remind myself of some of the modelling techniques used and to just savour the fantastic photos. Thank you Tony.

 

It should not come as a surprise to you to learn that Tony credits his many modelling friends who have contributed to the construction of the layout, throughout the book.

 

If you do not already have a copy you should buy one now. 

 

Archie

I've been contemplating buying the Kindle version. The problem with that is I cannot get it signed by the author ...

 

And, in the new year when my layout forays begin in earnest, I'll be wiring for DCC in N! I'll also be treading gently into the art of kitbuilding in both brass and whitemetal in the small scale too. Track plan is sorted, it's a prototype location although I am still not sure if I am going to model it faithfully regarding buildings as pictures and other information seem very thin on the ground. Once a bit of progress is in hand I promise to start a layout thread.

 

And just to confound everyone I'm occasionally a Tony myself (albeit not my first name or one I usually use) so that blows the DCC theory - or does it?

 

I'm determined to dig out my old K's Dean Goods and build it properly in terms of the body, the chassis ran fairly well albeit not like one of Tonys. Perhaps some time is needed to fettle that too. Then there is the scratch built Wickham trolley from more than 40 years ago to try and resurrect to go alongside the recent 4mm release. And then a 4mm shunting plank may just appear as well.

 

Then there are the cars and motor club events to think about so plenty to get on with in retirement.

[richard i]

Thank you Tony for the great couple of days. Really enjoyed working the layout. The cinema coach will work its way towards being a decent coach as I get round to addressing bits of it over time. I will of course post images of the 12am gcr 2-4-0 when there is something to look at. So far the footplate and side tanks have been cut out.

Richard