Wright writes.....

[Barry O]

Jesse... its getting cold here now... no doubt the Chapel will be chilly when I visit this week....

 

You can come if you want but bring a box of heat with you

 

Baz

[Headstock]

I've recently completed a number of carriages including this ECJS corridor third. An interesting variation on the Gresley carriage theme. The ones built at York combine features of both the GNR and NER. The overall outline is Gresley but the compartment window top lights, door ventilator hoods, underframe gubbins and the arrangement of the turnbuckles and needle beams are pure NE.

[Tony Wright]

Whilst in principle I whole heartedly agree, I do have some sympathy for the newcomer without much experience of exhibiting. I have seen a couple of beautifully modelled smaller layouts where the operator/owner was mortified because things were not working as they should. "I've been testing it all week and everything was working fine...."

Taking a new model to a show, with it shaking around in the back of a car or van, coupled to changes of temperature and humidity I suspect can play havoc with the best efforts of the inexperienced show exhibitor.

As I have done neither I do not speak with authority .... but in certain instances I have felt sorry for the exhibitor.

I have sympathy at times with exhibitors when things don't work as they should. Even the best made layouts can have problems. 

 

Speaking from personal experience, at one show one of Stoke's (only) three points on the scenic section failed (the Up one, going from one tracks to two). For a day and a half (and years before), it had been working perfectly when the mechanism (a rotary point motor) failed. What to do? I replaced it, working in the gloom behind the drapes, soldering uphill, finally emerging in a welter of sweat and belligerence, only to be asked by one visitor 'Are you running a Sunday service?' Belligerence is the right word for my feelings towards him!

 

In my view, some layout operators tolerate running which I find personally unacceptable. But, that's me. 

[t-b-g]

The maths of scale speed is not difficult. Once you work from one mile in a minute is 60mph you can quickly work out a scale distance on any layout and time a train over it. In 4mm scale a mile is around 70ft so 7ft is one tenth of a scale mile. If a train covers that in one tenth of a minute, better known as six seconds, it is doing a scale 60mph. Most of us will have a stopwatch on our clever mobile phones or a clock or watch with a second hand.

 

Sure you will get small errors but it will give you a good idea of what 60 or 30mph looks like.

[manna]

G'Day All

 

Speed, you wait till you are with a driver who wants to go home and watch the football.......................

 

manna

[APOLLO]

Tony - Check your frogs !!

 

 

This sort of thing happens now and again on my American O gauge layout - very prototypical (but annoying).

 

Brit15

[Headstock]

At the GC model event back in July the layout was left in perfect order on the Thursday evening. Over night a vile concoction of moist muck had descended on the track and hardened like concrete. The whole layout had to be re-cleaned, a process not completed until after the opening of the exhibition. Jerky running was the order of the day until the contaminated locomotives could be attended to. To add insult to injury, we knew that the GCR / NRM museum bods were turning up to film the layout during the day. Sods law that they would choose the opening of the first day to do so and record some awful jerky running for prosperity, I shall not supply a link, a shame as despite the problem they also recorded some very good footage. By ten o'clock all was well but why didn't we cover the layout overnight!

[Headstock]

Tony - Check your frogs !!

 

 

This sort of thing happens now and again on my American O gauge layout - very prototypical (but annoying).

 

Brit15

 

Tension lock couplings?

[The Blue Streak]

The maths of scale speed is not difficult. Once you work from one mile in a minute is 60mph you can quickly work out a scale distance on any layout and time a train over it. In 4mm scale a mile is around 70ft so 7ft is one tenth of a scale mile. If a train covers that in one tenth of a minute, better known as six seconds, it is doing a scale 60mph. Most of us will have a stopwatch on our clever mobile phones or a clock or watch with a second hand.

 

Sure you will get small errors but it will give you a good idea of what 60 or 30mph looks like.

 

G'Day All

 

Speed, you wait till you are with a driver who wants to go home and watch the football.......................

 

manna

 

Obviously I cannot speak for all Networks and Company's around the world.

Until quite recently there was a rule in West Australia that "every driver must carry a timepiece, that had the ability to time seconds" and also " at least one occasion in every shift the driver or assistant must check the accuracy of the Locomotives speedometer using a timepiece and the kilometer pegs to be found along the permanent way".

 

Tony Gee's suggestion is not so far from a prototypical thing really.

 

Back in the old days when the speedo's were opened up by the fitters and the scrolls were sent to Perth for checking (usually by one bloke with a backlog of work)  it was very rare to be pinged for mild breaches of speeding. Unless there had been a incident to go along with it or you did it consistently.

So when the driver was late for the footy, there wasn't much chance of being pinged (especially if He was friendly with scroll checker, which was advisable )

 

Nowadays if an overspeed alarm is tripped (or an emergency / Penalty brake application is made and just about anything else come to think of it) a message is sent immediately via satellite to about 7000 many people

 

The modern tech in Loco's nowadays, including video cameras (where fitted) can either get a driver in the manure or can save his career, it just depends on what it catches, which pretty much depends on what sort of driver he is!

 

Late Edit - Spelling.

Edited November 2, 2017 by The Blue Streak

[Andy Hayter]

I have sympathy at times with exhibitors when things don't work as they should. Even the best made layouts can have problems. 

 

Speaking from personal experience, at one show one of Stoke's (only) three points on the scenic section failed (the Up one, going from one tracks to two). For a day and a half (and years before), it had been working perfectly when the mechanism (a rotary point motor) failed. What to do? I replaced it, working in the gloom behind the drapes, soldering uphill, finally emerging in a welter of sweat and belligerence, only to be asked by one visitor 'Are you running a Sunday service?' Belligerence is the right word for my feelings towards him!

 

In my view, some layout operators tolerate running which I find personally unacceptable. But, that's me. 

 

Having been in a not dissimilar situation, with an important (but thankfully not critical) point failure, the question is what to do about it while in the field*.

Crawl under the layout and try and fix it?

Operate the point manually ?  For me a no-no - even if done from under the board.

Find a work around (your Sunday service)?

 

 

In our case we could use a work around - not really possible in your case I appreciate.  The point motors were not access friendly and without taking a board down and fixing things while it was on its side (possibly entertaining for some but not what we were trying to achieve) there was no real option.

 

 

* in the field being almost literal since we were installed under a gazeebo. 

Edited November 2, 2017 by Andy Hayter

[Tony Teague]

Tension lock couplings?

....Kadees....

[Tony Wright]

Having been in a not dissimilar situation, with an important (but thankfully not critical) point failure, the question is what to do about it while in the field*.

Crawl under the layout and try and fix it?

Operate the point manually ?  For me a no-no - even if done from under the board.

Find a work around (your Sunday service)?

 

 

In our case we could use a work around - not really possible in your case I appreciate.  The point motors were not access friendly and without taking a board down and fixing things while it was on its side (possibly entertaining for some but not what we were trying to achieve) there was no real option.

 

 

* in the field being almost literal since we were installed under a gazeebo. 

Thanks Andy,

 

During my repairing of the point, I told the Down driver to put as many trains past as could be managed. The easiest way to fix the point would have been to take out the board and place it on its side. Imagine the 'fun' that would have caused at the exhibition. 

 

Headstock relates of leaving a layout overnight in perfect working order, only to find, next morning, that 'contamination' had occurred. We had two instances of that, both with Stoke Summit. 

 

On one occasion at a Warley Show, the visiting 'real' locomotive was a Class 37. We'd set up, not far from its plinth and in getting the loco into position, some fuel oil seems to have spilled from a tank. We thought nothing of this, because it wasn't really adjacent to the layout. However, overnight, the spillage had been cleaned up and whatever the (very-effective) cleanser was, it had left a sort of 'greasy' atmosphere around it. Our locos behaved like ballet dancers/ballerinas for the first hour or two (meaning they were incredibly light on their feet). For at least two hours I was taking each loco off after a couple of circuits, replacing it with a fresh one, then cleaning its tyres with a cotton bud, and so on............... The problem was the gunge had got on to the stock's wheels as well, which meant constant redistribution of the goo. After two hours, wiping each fiddle yard road in turn, it cleared off. 

 

On the second occasion, we were in the 'arm' of the sports centre in Nottingham. The floor in this was covered with a synthetic 'track' for indoor athletics. All was well until the first mass punters arrived, and their footfall caused grit from this to rise up, and cover the railway. Thus, after half an hour's 'perfect' running, everything started jerking. I investigated, and the drivers were covered in a gritty deposit (the opposite from at Warley). Again, constant cleaning and replacement until the problem died down (but never went away). I mentioned this problem and was told that Paula Radcliffe had once run on it. Was she a railway modeller? 

 

Neither of these incidents reflect on the clubs organising the events. They were brilliant.

 

We did once have a problem with Fordley Park, entirely of my own making. Next to us was a OO live-steam system (well over 30 years ago now), and I borrowed one to run. Big mistake: it piddled oily water all over the running tracks, rendering every one of our locos an 0P in terms of haulage power. I was not popular!

 

I mention all of the above, not as an excuse for poor running but to illustrate that sometimes conditions are outside the exhibitors' control. 

Edited November 2, 2017 by Tony Wright

[Tony Teague]

Whilst in principle I whole heartedly agree, I do have some sympathy for the newcomer without much experience of exhibiting. I have seen a couple of beautifully modelled smaller layouts where the operator/owner was mortified because things were not working as they should. "I've been testing it all week and everything was working fine...."

Applying this approach to my home layout, I am constantly working at eliminating poor running and improving consistency, whether the problems relate to track, rolling stock, couplings or locomotives, but there is one further phenomena that I have experienced more than once, and which I find plays havoc with reliable running, and that is to have Tony Wright visit one's layout!

Even if one had been running without error all night, his approach to the railway room door seems to bring out long dormant faults!!

(But I am sure that I don't need to say that you are always most welcome Tony!).

 

Tony

[Clive Mortimore]

My worst nightmare with Hanging Hill was at DEMU's Showcase. On the Saturday it ran with some slight operator errors but electrically and mechanically it was fine. Sunday all sorts of things were happening, including a couple of joints that appeared to have never been soldered correctly. Once you start to get problems, and ones that there is not a quick remedy for, then things start to spiral downwards. I was ready to pack up by lunchtime, things did improve on the infrastructure side but operator concentration and morale by that point was so low that we were all pleased when the finish time came.

 

At Alley Pally the layout ran very well on the Saturday morning but started to play up a bit in the afternoon for no apparent reason. As I pottered off doing the tea round for my crew I noticed the others were having problems some not working at all. The hall temperature had increased enough to cause many layout's rail to expand as to close section gaps and buckle. One 0 gauge layout a chap was hacksawing a gap that had closed up.  At least the Hill kept going. On the Sunday near perfect running, except when the crew let a fat bald bloke run his train set.

[Tony Wright]

Applying this approach to my home layout, I am constantly working at eliminating poor running and improving consistency, whether the problems relate to track, rolling stock, couplings or locomotives, but there is one further phenomena that I have experienced more than once, and which I find plays havoc with reliable running, and that is to have Tony Wright visit one's layout!

Even if one had been running without error all night, his approach to the railway room door seems to bring out long dormant faults!!

(But I am sure that I don't need to say that you are always most welcome Tony!).

 

Tony

Please don't think I'm singling out you for this 'special attention', Tony. 

 

Every layout I look out develops problems, but only at my appearance. 

 

Is it a 'gift' I have, or, more likely, a curse!?

[coachmann]

Trains, particularly North American ones, are big cumbersome things that fall apart once they're off the rails. I have seen a few in my time photing mainline trains and it is amazing what happens to a wagon once it leaves the track. It is as if the underframes are made of tinfoil, such are the dynamic forces at work. I witnessed a Class 40 bogie lifting at the rear through sharp braking when shunting and the rear whells came back down with the flange on the wrong side of the rail. Chairs and sleepers broke like matchwood amid a cloud of rust dust. Another 40 closed down Llandudno Station when derailing amid the usual dust cloud.

Edited November 2, 2017 by coachmann

[Lecorbusier]

Oh dear .... another of my questions !!!!

 

I have always wondered on all these wonderful scenic layouts how you all cope with the problem of common or garden dust? I know with my models every couple of months I have to carefully remove accumulated dust (and fine hairs curtesy of the fairer sex) from about every surface. Surely this must be an even greater problem where fine scale scenery is concerned?

[unclebobkt]

        Hands up all those who have never had a derailment and had to use their hand to re-rail the loco or train?

 

 ... .

 

 

 

       Even in the real world of 12":1'.  accidents/mishaps do occur.

 

   I can well remember, this would be one snowing and pre-Christmas in the early 60s.,  our UP train crawled into LEICESTER MIDLAND, with strange & mechanical noises coming from the 9F..

  Wondering at the apparent delay I descended from the carriage and walked forward to have a look-see.

  The driver, fireman and a fitter were attending to the motion on the driver's side, banging away industriously and uttering strange oaths.  Finally they seemed to be satisfied and, after a few moments more,  away the train crawled on its journey up to LONDON.

  II only wished that I had my camera with me, loaded with a 'coarse.' grain and B&W. film.

 

  Or how about even on the GWR., #6007. 'King William III's bogie jumped off the track at Shrivenham on 15 January 1936.

 

  The driver and the fireman managed to bring the locomotive to a halt without any further upsets.

  I believe that the PAX. were so relieved  that an impromptu collection was raised and given to both the  driven and to the fireman.

  Apparently the 'Spring-rates.' for the bogie were incorrect, and required re-calculating before a satisfactory answer was achieved and all of the class built to then were modified as necessary.

  I believe that for the 'Kings.' the then CME., Collett,  adopted rather a hands-OFF approach and delegated most of the Drawing Office's work to the Chief Draughtsman, Hawksworth, (his eventual successor.),.

 

  And I darewrite that hot-boxes were not unknown, too.

 

          

[Killybegs]

Oh dear .... another of my questions !!!!

 

I have always wondered on all these wonderful scenic layouts how you all cope with the problem of common or garden dust? I know with my models every couple of months I have to carefully remove accumulated dust (and fine hairs curtesy of the fairer sex) from about every surface. Surely this must be an even greater problem where fine scale scenery is concerned?

 

Dust sheets help. See  http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/82059-worseter-update/page-33

 

My exhibition layout had totally enclosed covers for storage and transport.

[t-b-g]

Problems will happen. The difference comes in how you deal with them. Blind acceptance that these things happen or carry out some remedial work to put them right.

 

Every fault has a cause that can be corrected. If people are willing to take the time and effort needed to correct them. Whether that be some concerted cleaning or adjusting some errant track with a soldering iron or improving a back to back on a wheel.

 

The worst we had was with Narrow Road at Alexandra Palace a few years ago. The atmosphere was thick with dust and moisture that settled on the layout and caused dreadful running. So we set one operator on constant wheel and track cleaning. Not much fun but it kept the trains running. By the time all the wheels were cleaned as the locos came into the fiddle yard it was time to clean the track and as soon as the track was cleaned it was time to clean the wheels.

 

It is easy enough to remove a poorly performing wagon, carriage or loco, or to choose not to use the siding with the dodgy point motor but when it is the whole layout and all the locos that are suffering, that sorts out the men from the boys!

[Tony Wright]

Oh dear .... another of my questions !!!!

 

I have always wondered on all these wonderful scenic layouts how you all cope with the problem of common or garden dust? I know with my models every couple of months I have to carefully remove accumulated dust (and fine hairs curtesy of the fairer sex) from about every surface. Surely this must be an even greater problem where fine scale scenery is concerned?

Tim,

 

Other than the problems I've related, for most of their exhibition life both Stoke and Charwelton ran very well. The procedure was always the same; after the layout(s) were erected it was my job to clean all the trackwork. I did this with a track rubber (sold by the OO Gauge Association; not Peco, which can crumble). This done, stock was put on and tested (on the Friday evening). Once happy with running, the fiddle yard was covered (full of trains) with some large dust-free cloths. Scenic sides were left exposed, but re-cleaned on the Saturday morning. All locos/stock wheels would have been cleaned beforehand. Usually, after the first hour gremlins, no more cleaning was needed. 

 

On LB, because it's a fixed layout, frequent-running keeps it clean. That, and the fact that it's in a very stable environment (unlike in houses/lofts, where dust is a major problem), and because at least one vehicle using every main route has a cleaning pad (Gaugemaster) fixed to an axle, means that dust is kept to a minimum. 

 

Jerky running (if it's not the loco's fault) can usually be attributed to dust/deposits on the rails, which causes sparking, causing carbon deposits on tyres to build up, which causes more sparking, and so on..................... If the rails are kept clean, then good running is possible. Even more possible if those wheels which pick-up are kept clean, as are tyres on rolling stock wheels. Those wheels must always be metal. Never tolerate plastic rolling stock wheels, for their propensity to collect surface dirt (and then re-deposit it everywhere) is incredible. 

 

Perhaps your battery-powered system is the answer to judder-free running after all. 

Edited November 2, 2017 by Tony Wright

[Lecorbusier]

Tim,

 

Other than the problems I've related, for most of their exhibition life both Stoke and Charwelton ran very well. The procedure was always the same; after the layout(s) were erected it was my job to clean all the trackwork. I did this with a track rubber (sold by the OO Gauge Association; not Peco, which can crumble). This done, stock was put on and tested (on the Friday evening). Once happy with running, the fiddle yard was covered (full of trains) with some large dust-free cloths. Scenic sides were left exposed, but re-cleaned on the Saturday morning. All locos/stock wheels would have been cleaned beforehand. Usually, after the first hour gremlins, no more cleaning was needed. 

 

On LB, because it's a fixed layout, frequent-running keeps it clean. That, and the fact that it's in a very stable environment (unlike in houses/lofts, where dust is a major problem), and because at least one vehicle using every main route has a cleaning pad (Gaugemaster) fixed to an axle, means that dust is kept to a minimum. 

 

Jerky running (if it's not the loco's fault) can usually be attributed to dust/deposits on the rails, which causes sparking, causing carbon deposits on tyres to build up, which causes more sparking, and so on..................... If the rails are kept clean, then good running is possible. Even more possible if those wheels which pick-up are kept clean, as are tyres on rolling stock wheels. Those wheels must always be metal. Never tolerate plastic rolling stock wheels, for their propensity to collect surface dirt (and then re-deposit it everywhere) is incredible. 

 

Perhaps your battery-powered system is the answer to judder-free running after all. 

Thanks for that Tony,

 

That is very interesting. Battery power certainly takes the dodgy pick up question out of the equation ... but dust and hair can play havoc with the drive and motion and of course loves any lubricant!

 

Running was one part of the question ... the other was simple presentation. Trees/bushes/grasslands/buildings etc etc all will attract dust over time ... yet Little Bytham in all your shots looks immaculate? Can you vacuum such delicate scenery? The dust covers Killeybegs links to are ingenious ... but I don't believe I have seen them insitu anywhere else. I am curious because the architectural models we have in my Office all have perspex covers over them to keep the dust at bay.

[John Isherwood]

g

 

Oh dear .... another of my questions !!!!

 

I have always wondered on all these wonderful scenic layouts how you all cope with the problem of common or garden dust? I know with my models every couple of months I have to carefully remove accumulated dust (and fine hairs curtesy of the fairer sex) from about every surface. Surely this must be an even greater problem where fine scale scenery is concerned?

Garden fleece - the lightweight white stuff.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[The Johnster]

Tim,

 

Other than the problems I've related, for most of their exhibition life both Stoke and Charwelton ran very well. The procedure was always the same; after the layout(s) were erected it was my job to clean all the trackwork. I did this with a track rubber (sold by the OO Gauge Association; not Peco, which can crumble). This done, stock was put on and tested (on the Friday evening). Once happy with running, the fiddle yard was covered (full of trains) with some large dust-free cloths. Scenic sides were left exposed, but re-cleaned on the Saturday morning. All locos/stock wheels would have been cleaned beforehand. Usually, after the first hour gremlins, no more cleaning was needed. 

 

On LB, because it's a fixed layout, frequent-running keeps it clean. That, and the fact that it's in a very stable environment (unlike in houses/lofts, where dust is a major problem), and because at least one vehicle using every main route has a cleaning pad (Gaugemaster) fixed to an axle, means that dust is kept to a minimum. 

 

Jerky running (if it's not the loco's fault) can usually be attributed to dust/deposits on the rails, which causes sparking, causing carbon deposits on tyres to build up, which causes more sparking, and so on..................... If the rails are kept clean, then good running is possible. Even more possible if those wheels which pick-up are kept clean, as are tyres on rolling stock wheels. Those wheels must always be metal. Never tolerate plastic rolling stock wheels, for their propensity to collect surface dirt (and then re-deposit it everywhere) is incredible. 

 

Perhaps your battery-powered system is the answer to judder-free running after all. 

 

 

 

This is very good all round advice, Tony, and I agree that a home layout run frequently, ideally daily, keeps itself clean in a way that an exhibition layout, stored between shows, cannot.  I would add that the arcing caused by crud on the railheads which builds up a dark brown deposit will also occur where changes of level, especially unforeseen ones at baseboard joins or badly planned and laid gradient changes, crop up, and attention to smooth running when the track is being laid in the first place will always pay dividends.  I know I am preaching to the choir for the majority of this threads contributors and very much in your own case, but novices read the thread and are sometimes usefully informed by it!

[Tony Wright]

Thanks for that Tony,

 

That is very interesting. Battery power certainly takes the dodgy pick up question out of the equation ... but dust and hair can play havoc with the drive and motion and of course loves any lubricant!

 

Running was one part of the question ... the other was simple presentation. Trees/bushes/grasslands/buildings etc etc all will attract dust over time ... yet Little Bytham in all your shots looks immaculate? Can you vacuum such delicate scenery? The dust covers Killeybegs links to are ingenious ... but I don't believe I have seen them insitu anywhere else. I am curious because the architectural models we have in my Office all have perspex covers over them to keep the dust at bay.

Tim,

 

Any horizontal surface (unless it's in a vacuum) will attract dust. Little Bytham is no different, though, as mentioned, because of its environment (no carpets, etc) then that's minimised. 

 

I try not to disturb dust (on things such as surfaces, roads, roofs of buildings) because, over time, it 'mellows' everything to a degree. Dust on the track is a different matter, and (as described) that's removed at all times. The only time I vacuum anything is after I've been working on an area, and there's detritus - bits of wood after drilling holes, off-cuts of scenic material and so on. 

 

Foreign matter inside mechanisms is a potential problem. Part of my maintenance regime on locos is to remove bits of fluff from pick-ups which can accumulate over time. Or, crud around commutators and so on. 

 

As long as the track is clean, loco wheels (with plenty of pick-ups) are clean (and stock wheels are clean), the track is well-laid and electrical connections are attached to EVERY section of rail (however short), also meaning not using dead-frog points, and every wheelset is correctly adjusted to conform with the track clearances, then good running is (or should be) assured.